For nontrads: How did you decide to become a doctor and how did you validate?

[Meridian32]

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Hi everyone,

I'm curious as to how those of you who are nontraditional students in med school (or beyond) reached your decision to become a doctor, then what you did to validate that decision. Nontrad students seem less likely than traditional students to have "known all their life that medicine is their calling" and instead seem more likely to have decided to pursue medicine based on a well-thought-through decision process. What was your story? How did you realize that medicine was a possibility, and once you realized that, how did you eliminate other career possibilities from consideration?

There is also, for nontrad students, a higher opportunity cost in going to med school relative to traditional students because of higher earnings loss, reduced opportunity to start or spend time with family, etc., so it seems important for nontrad students to validate their desire to become a doctor before plunging forward. How did you do this? By volunteering, shadowing, informational interviews with practicing physicians, etc.?

I would love it if those of you who are going down this path in earnest could share your stories of how you decided and validated your decision to become a doctor. My apologies if this material has already been covered in a previous thread - I've looked around and (surprisingly) couldn't find anything similar.

Thanks!

 

[TarHeel55]

Hi Meridian,

I am sure others will have very useful responses, but for me, the most important factor in deciding to go to med school was the time I spent volunteering in hospitals and clinics, and with hospice. I loved the direct, one-on-one involvement with patients, and I loved working as a member of a team with other health care providers. I realized that I also wanted to understand disease and disease processes, the treatment options available to the patients I was interacting with, and so on. Medicine was the logical next step.

You are so right about the opportunity costs associated with becoming a medical student, especially at a relatively older age. If you do not have substantial savings, the prospect of taking out $120,000+ in loans is even more daunting in your late 20s/30s/40s than it is at 22. Not to mention the strain that medical training can place on family relationships. That is why I would suggest the process of thinking about med school should include consideration of midlevel careers, such as clinical pharmacy, nurse practicioner, physician assistant, and so on. The training period for these careers is typically much shorter than for physicians, and I think they can be very fulfilling in their own right.

For me, I decided not to opt for a career as a midlevel because I felt that in the long term, I would always desire the depth of understanding of physiology and medicine that comes with medical school + residency.

If you are contemplating medical school, I would strongly encourage you to try volunteering in a clinical setting for a few hours a week. For exploring whether medicine has the potential to galvinize, excite, and challenge you in a good way, I think there is really no substitute for actually getting in there and working with patients, physicians, and nurses. Shadowing and talking with physicians can also be very helpful, but for me, I learned much more by volunteering.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Old Grunt]

For me it was seeing combat trauma and also the complete lack of care in Afghanistan.

I don't believe in validation.

 

[saylorsdad]

I am married, 31 years old with 3 year old daughter, and newborn. I have taught for six years and was in the usmc prior to college. I have had a desire to teach at the college level for years now. Upon completion of my masters degree in education I began to search for physical ed doctoral (EdD) programs, and my college advisor suggested that I look into medical school. This led me to do more research, and I found that medical school was what I have been wanting to do all along "in fact most of my masters level research was on sports injuries". I shadowed several doctors, and this affirmed to me that medicine was the path I wanted to take. I did look into pa programs however being a mid level provider isn't for me. The lack of control of your practice in the long run is what made me decide not to be a mid level provider. In the end this has led me to take my pre req's, invest in the mcat and admissions process and dive in. I have interview this next tuesday at in state university and if accepted I will begin this fall.

 

[Luxian]

I've always been fascinated in medicine, but up until recently it was largely a hobby. I loved the topics and soaked up everything I could in them, but I nixed pre-med as a major because it was 'too restrictive'. I didn't feel like taking the easiest load of classes just in order to get a 4.0GPA.

I tried financial consulting and found it too soulless. I got a degree in public health and found out just how little that means in the health world. I've worked for five years in public health policy and got tired of sitting in an office hoping that what I worked on might in five or ten or twenty years affect a few people. And I got tired of getting promoted away from the work I truly love.

While I may run into cut-throat attitudes and inflated egos at med school and while it's gonna cost me a pretty penny and while it may make having a family trickier, I simply ran out of excuses NOT to go to med school. I don't have a family and I don't have a mortgage and I happened to take all the pre-reqs for med school in college without realizing it, so basically all I had to do was apply.

When I stopped listening to everyone elses opinion that med school was too hard or too expensive or too gorey, I listened to my own thoughts and found it was the very best thing for me. I want the challenge, I want to work with people, I want the intellectual rigor, I want the continual learning. And now I can't think of anything else I'd rather be.

 

[8744]

For me it was seeing combat trauma and also the complete lack of care in Afghanistan.

I don't believe in validation.

****ing-A, bubba.

 

[8744]

Hi everyone,

I'm curious as to how those of you who are nontraditional students in med school (or beyond) reached your decision to become a doctor, then what you did to validate that decision. Nontrad students seem less likely than traditional students to have "known all their life that medicine is their calling" and instead seem more likely to have decided to pursue medicine based on a well-thought-through decision process. What was your story? How did you realize that medicine was a possibility, and once you realized that, how did you eliminate other career possibilities from consideration?

There is also, for nontrad students, a higher opportunity cost in going to med school relative to traditional students because of higher earnings loss, reduced opportunity to start or spend time with family, etc., so it seems important for nontrad students to validate their desire to become a doctor before plunging forward. How did you do this? By volunteering, shadowing, informational interviews with practicing physicians, etc.?

I would love it if those of you who are going down this path in earnest could share your stories of how you decided and validated your decision to become a doctor. My apologies if this material has already been covered in a previous thread - I've looked around and (surprisingly) couldn't find anything similar.

Thanks!

It was a total and complete whim on my part. I had no experience with medicine, had never even been to a hospital except when my first kid was born and avoided even looking at anything gross (the second, third, and fourth all came while I was applying to, attending, or finished with medical school), and apart from the usual polite interest that everyone has in medicine (which explains the popularity of medical drama on TV) had never had any real interest in it at all.

But I researched the application process, a lot more difficult ten years ago I can assure you, and it seemed like it was doable and that being a doctor paid pretty well and was an interesting job. I naturally became obessed with the idea because if you are not obssessed, you will not have the stamina for the application process as a non-traditional student.

I was once obsesssed with going back into the Marines as a reservist and subsequently lost thirty pounds and got back into great physical shape. That one never panned out.

 

[Beast11]

I don't believe in validation.

How can any aspiring doc not believe in validation. All I know is that when I visit the hospital, the stoopid parking garage rates are obscene, and I need to get that little stamp on the parking card so I can get gas 😉

 

[VetMom]

When I was in high school and my first 2 years of college.. The last thing I wanted to do was medicine. I didn't want to invest that much brain power into something because I convinced myself that it wasn't possible. So I got my degree in Arabic (pre 911) and served in the military for about 5 years. I got plenty of opportunities to serve in the medical field in the military and I found it to be very interesting. I also met my husband who just happened to be a medic over in Iraq while I was busy being a translator. So after my service I went back to school (YAY GI-BILL) and initially wanted to go into nursing. I took all the co-reqs for nursing, ( No clinicals). I also started volunteering at a local hospital and found that I actually liked the hospital environment. After discovering that I was indeed somewhat intelligent because my GPA was a 4.0, I started to wonder why I was settling for BSN. So, I decided to go the doctor route last May.

 

[Old Grunt]

****ing-A, bubba.

Damn right. In the end, you make your decisions and live with the consequences whether good or bad.

No matter what you do, some days are going to be great (and thus seen as validation) and some days are going to suck (and thus seen as the anti-thesis of validation).

 

[Meridian32]

Thanks for your perspectives, everyone. All of this is very helpful.

What I would also like to know is how, if at all, those of you who are successful nontrad students educated yourselves on the downsides of being a practicing doctor. For example, is it frustrating to have to work at hospitals whose administrators constantly want you to bill more. Currently, I feel like I know something about what is gratifying about being a practicing doctor, and nearly nothing about what is not. I realize there needs to be some amount of obsession involved when applying to medical school, but I also want to have a clear-eyed view of what I would be setting myself up for - downsides and frustrations included - if I took the plunge. What are your thoughts?

Thanks again!

 

[DrMidlife]

...What I would also like to know is how, if at all, those of you who are successful nontrad students educated yourselves on the downsides of being a practicing doctor....

You can find out everything you want to know by shadowing some physicians and reading some blogs. Following residents around during an ER volunteer shift is useful too. I've been doing this kind of "research" obsessively for a couple of years.

If you shadow a male OB/GYN who is over 50, you'll get the worst case scenario on risk management and malpractice and how much things have changed. Anybody in private practice can give you an earful about medicare and billing and the general sense of terror. When I shadowed surgeons and clinicians there was usually a bit of down time in the lounge and I just dove in and asked "what do you hate about this?" and as a rule I found the docs to be kind of relieved to get to stop blowing smoke about how honorable the profession is and how much they love their alma mater etc. My best, most informative shadowing experience was with a DO orthopod who's about my age.

If you start at Panda's blog (www.pandabear.com) you'll see he has links to about a dozen other doc/resident blogs, and each of those has links to more. Panda's blog and his friends' blogs are on the conservative side, and if you keep following links you'll find us liberals and folks of every stripe.

Also useful to me as a premed, recently, was reminding myself what it's like to be under pressure to perform without having any sleep. I had to drive through a snowstorm all night after no sleep a couple weeks ago, and it was not fun like when I was in my 20's. Feeling quite a bit worse than that every day for several years is going to suck.

Best of luck to you.

 

[MeowMix]

I shadowed and volunteered and did everything to be absolutely *sure* it was the right path for me. In retrospect, I think most of us have very selective vision throughout the pre-med process, and discard the information that doesn't agree with our dream. Of course I didn't know enough to be sure. I don't even now, near the end of fourth year.

I personally heard all the doom and gloom stories, but was so enchanted with the idea of going to med school that I believed my experience would be somehow different and better.

I am still glad that I went to med school, but it has been a long hard expensive trip, and residency looms in June, which will be harder (but shorter and cheaper!). It is really a grind, with the odd moments of exhilaration and wonderful human experience. Sometimes those are few and far between, and then you have to be really personally motivated to keep going.

Often I'm really not sure it was worth $160,000 to have this experience, not to mention $320,000 of lost wages at my former salary and the long-term wear and tear on family and friends. But only you can decide if this particular form of torture is for you!

 

[montessori2md]

Damn right. In the end, you make your decisions and live with the consequences whether good or bad.

No matter what you do, some days are going to be great (and thus seen as validation) and some days are going to suck (and thus seen as the anti-thesis of validation).

I love the USMC almost as much as I love men who cook : ) And at my hospital volunteers and staff don't need validation.

SaylorsDad and I had similar experiences, except that my research interest was child development.

I hit a point where I was either gonna slide by in life, or suck it up and go all out.

But to play devil's advocate with the validation thing -I used organic chem as my first prereq course when I went back to school (previous life had 1 semester gen chem and bio), to see if I could actually function academically again. I listened and paid attention to what the students, interns, residents, mds, and also to all the rest of the staff at the hospital did when they were busy ignoring me. I considered what people who knew me well said when I told them I was applying. I looked at our budget, and intentionally scheduled myself 80 wks for a semester to see what that felt like for my family. I read and read and read some more....I have NO IDEA what I'm getting myself into.

 

[365593]

I hit a point where I was either gonna slide by in life, or suck it up and go all out. QUOTE]

This post is dusty and you may not see this, but you hit it on the head. Too bad I can't use this line in my interview next week! It is a tough question to answer: why medicine and why now?

I hope you feel you know what you have gotten yourself "into" and are happy about it!

 

[jl lin]

For me it was seeing combat trauma and also the complete lack of care in Afghanistan.

I don't believe in validation.

Excellent response. I love when people are just core real, so to speak...no fluff...no BS..Just real.👍

 

[Valerie2481]

For me, medicine was pretty much the first thing I considered when I talked about "what I wanted to be when I grew up", since about 5th grade. I never gave that goal up until college, when I did some lab research and fell in love with it. Combined with some money and family problems, med school became impractical and so grad school seemed like the way to go. Long story short, I ended up leaving grad school (again due to family and financial problems) despite doing relatively well and having a couple publications under my belt. My turning point came when at a research conference where we got to meet patients with the disease my lab studies. Seeing how these people suffered brought me to tears. I realized that despite how much research helps people like this long-term, they're still forced to wait while science moves forward at what must seem like a snail's pace.

So, I did a lot of thinking and realized I was really disappointed with myself for giving up on my original goal. I've ended up being a bit directionless, just reacting to whatever life has been tossing my way without really considering what I want to do and being complacent. Obviously I can't say whether or not I'll be accepted, but I'm at a point where I either go for it or hate myself forever for not trying.

 

[JapaneseSakura]

I've always been fascinated in medicine, but up until recently it was largely a hobby. I loved the topics and soaked up everything I could in them, but I nixed pre-med as a major because it was 'too restrictive'. I didn't feel like taking the easiest load of classes just in order to get a 4.0GPA.

I tried financial consulting and found it too soulless. I got a degree in public health and found out just how little that means in the health world. I've worked for five years in public health policy and got tired of sitting in an office hoping that what I worked on might in five or ten or twenty years affect a few people. And I got tired of getting promoted away from the work I truly love.

While I may run into cut-throat attitudes and inflated egos at med school and while it's gonna cost me a pretty penny and while it may make having a family trickier, I simply ran out of excuses NOT to go to med school. I don't have a family and I don't have a mortgage and I happened to take all the pre-reqs for med school in college without realizing it, so basically all I had to do was apply.

When I stopped listening to everyone elses opinion that med school was too hard or too expensive or too gorey, I listened to my own thoughts and found it was the very best thing for me. I want the challenge, I want to work with people, I want the intellectual rigor, I want the continual learning. And now I can't think of anything else I'd rather be.

WOW! That paralled my life! I was working at a boring, soulless, death job at a clinical trials office. I just sat at a computer screen all day, getting fatter and more depressed sitting next to my supervisor who sat and sat in silence! I was pretty lucky because I was able to see patients, follow the doctor, etc...if I was lucky! Doing all that, really sparked my interest even farther! I've stopped listening to people too and I don't see anything else for me. Now that it is over and I am in med school, I am staying in and reaching my dream! I wanna make a difference! Sitting on my butt all day drinking coffee is not making any difference only for my weight, lol!Thank you so much for sharing this!!!👍

 

[beeceeja]

I originally went to college planning on majoring in religious studies and then going to seminary, but shortly before I graduated I realized that I had lost my faith and no longer believed in God. Obviously a career as a member of the clergy was out, and I didn't know what else to do with a B.A. in Religion. I had trouble finding a job after college and a friend suggested I take a nursing assistant class. I became a CNA and spent a few years working in a nursing home and later a hospice and became very interested in healthcare and medicine. After all, I had originally wanted to become a minister to help people, and healthcare is another "helping profession". I started to go to nursing school but was so fascinated with the introductory microbiology class I had to take that I decided to transfer to a university and work on a bachelor's of science in microbiology (I am currently double majoring in microbiology and biochemistry). At that point I vaguely planned on going into public health research, but then I met up with an old high school friend who was now in medical school and after talking with her a few times began exploring the possibility of a career in medicine. I suppose for me the validating moment was when I asked my parent's next door neighbor, who is a resident, if I could shadow her at work a few times, and I really liked what I saw and felt like it was a job I could really see myself doing. I think if you're looking to see if medicine is really right for you, talking with medical students/doctors and doing a job shadow is the best way to validate.

 

[mafunk]

What I would also like to know is how, if at all, those of you who are successful nontrad students educated yourselves on the downsides of being a practicing doctor. ...but I also want to have a clear-eyed view of what I would be setting myself up for - downsides and frustrations included - if I took the plunge. What are your thoughts?

Downsides all depend our your personality, goals and life position. Truly the best thing you can do is shadow a couple of physicians to get a feel for it first hand.

That said, challenges that all medical students and/or physicians have to be able to handle are, IMHO...
- pressure to see so many patients a day that you don't feel you are providing quality patient care
- getting accustomed to the hierarchical structure of medicine, a true caste system
- having a great deal of responsibility, the buck stops with the doc
- being low man on the totem pole for a LONG time before finally becoming an experienced attending physician
- pressure to precribe meds, meds, meds
- dealing with non-compliant patients
- working your tail off for no/lo pay for a full decade before you are an attending
- as a premed, spending your Friday nights studying while your friends are out having a good time

All that said, I STILL want to become a physican, and am willing to do everything it takes to make it happen. I'm in this for the long haul!

Why did I choose the route so late in life?
Well, I have dreamed about it since I was a little girl, but it seemed like something was always in the way and/or I was not yet ready for the financial commitment and opportunity cost. Now, I have the time and means to pursue my dream, so I'm going for it.

 

[Quik]

Well I'm not yet accepted, or attending med school, but I'll play anyway.

I wasn't two, five ten or 18 when I decided to pursue medicine, I was 27. Being rather idealistic, I followed a course of study into a profession I thought would have a purpose and make a difference. After I experienced reality, politics, market economics, I understood it was a lot tougher than my optimism let me imagine. I had transitioned from a career in science to sales, and after summitting the initial learning curve, found myself bored to tears in a career that had stripped my of my passion. I was/am making decent money but wasn't making myself happy serving a purpose with any efficiency. I decided I needed a change. My sister was a physician assistant, and prior to deciding what my new path would be, I was questioning her relentlessly about the patients and cases she saw. Her days seemed so much more fulfilling than my own. The lightbulb went on. I spent most of my workdays enthralled in the idea becoming a doctor, researching what it would take to become one. Understanding the rigorous marathon that was ahead, I saw at very least, I would not be getting bored with inadequate challenges. I am fortunate to still be single, extremely mobile, and with enough ambition and fortitude to jump in and see it through. I didn't need to validate, but if I did, there are plenty of reasons to do so. Mostly though, I did it because coming from a family living in poverty, and feeling as though I had the apptitude, I wanted to do something with my life. Something much bigger than myself. Medicine was the answer, helping people the purpose.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I shadowed and volunteered and did everything to be absolutely *sure* it was the right path for me. In retrospect, I think most of us have very selective vision throughout the pre-med process, and discard the information that doesn't agree with our dream. Of course I didn't know enough to be sure. I don't even now, near the end of fourth year.

I personally heard all the doom and gloom stories, but was so enchanted with the idea of going to med school that I believed my experience would be somehow different and better.

I am still glad that I went to med school, but it has been a long hard expensive trip, and residency looms in June, which will be harder (but shorter and cheaper!). It is really a grind, with the odd moments of exhilaration and wonderful human experience. Sometimes those are few and far between, and then you have to be really personally motivated to keep going.

Often I'm really not sure it was worth $160,000 to have this experience, not to mention $320,000 of lost wages at my former salary and the long-term wear and tear on family and friends. But only you can decide if this particular form of torture is for you!

Listen up pre-med non-traditionals. If this is your dream, go for it, but please listen to other perspectives, and think long and hard before you commit.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Listen up pre-med non-traditionals. If this is your dream, go for it, but please listen to other perspectives, and think long and hard before you commit.

Yeah, I hear you, but I think my experience will be different and better

Look, sir, you're wasting your breath. We are perfectly aware that we are wearing rose-tinted glasses and we have no intention of taking them off. We will use any and all methods to hold onto our pre-conceived delusions of competency.

Do you also try to convince young teens that driving is boring, older teenagers that living on their own is hard, and engaged couples that they will not always feel in love?

 

[MCAT guy]

This thread really made a comeback.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Yeah, I hear you, but I think my experience will be different and better

Look, sir, you're wasting your breath. We are perfectly aware that we are wearing rose-tinted glasses and we have no intention of taking them off. We will use any and all methods to hold onto our pre-conceived delusions of competency.

Do you also try to convince young teens that driving is boring, older teenagers that living on their own is hard, and engaged couples that they will not always feel in love?

Yeah, Ed, you know everything. Even what you've not experienced. This was not directed at you, but knock yourself out also. Your refined wisdom is appreciated.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Yeah, Ed, you know everything. Even what you've not experienced. This was not directed at you, but knock yourself out also. Your refined wisdom is appreciated.

Did you get that I was joking?

 

[Scottish Chap]

Did you get that I was joking?

Do I care either way? No. Be well.

 

[gunito]

I majored in psych and after taking a biopsych lab and class it confirmed the idea that i wanted and needed to work with the brain. I had a not so great gpa and grad school was out of the question, so i gave up. Then i considered getting a MS in psych then trying for a PhD. I wanted to do clinical neuropsych and i was comparing what they do to what neurologists do. I rejected the neurology idea because it felt like i was doing it for money. As i realized that neurologists do the things that i wanted to do i knew that it was for me. Also, the fact that i can repair my gpa and do well on the MCAT and get in. I know its an uphill battle but i wouldnt have it any other way. If i would have done well in undergrad i would have gone the psychology route. My passion for understanding how people work blossomed into an interest in how people work as a whole. My interest in how the world works also increased...so here i am.

 

[n3xa]

Listen up pre-med non-traditionals. If this is your dream, go for it, but please listen to other perspectives, and think long and hard before you commit.

BUT I'M A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE

Yeah, I appreciate all those other stories, worst-case-scenarios, and devil's advocate POVs from friends and colleagues. Interns in general surgery residency programs are just chalk full of sunshine and puppies. 😉

Out of all of them, I had to defriend only one person because it got to the point where every single conversation involved why I shouldn't do this and ended in a blowout argument over it. The best part was he has no ties to the medical field.

 

[MCAT guy]

I shadowed and volunteered and did everything to be absolutely *sure* it was the right path for me. In retrospect, I think most of us have very selective vision throughout the pre-med process, and discard the information that doesn't agree with our dream. Of course I didn't know enough to be sure. I don't even now, near the end of fourth year.

I personally heard all the doom and gloom stories, but was so enchanted with the idea of going to med school that I believed my experience would be somehow different and better.

I am still glad that I went to med school, but it has been a long hard expensive trip, and residency looms in June, which will be harder (but shorter and cheaper!). It is really a grind, with the odd moments of exhilaration and wonderful human experience. Sometimes those are few and far between, and then you have to be really personally motivated to keep going.

Often I'm really not sure it was worth $160,000 to have this experience, not to mention $320,000 of lost wages at my former salary and the long-term wear and tear on family and friends. But only you can decide if this particular form of torture is for you!

Agreed. If you are thinking about $ or lost wages, then regrets are likely to come.

I think if you've read enough and been around enough physicians, you know:

-- You have to take on a ton of debt.
-- You have to work very very hard (likely harder than your last job).
-- You will not have a ton of money, nor will it come easy. You may have less money than if you just worked in your previous job.

__________________________

These 3 ideas were explained to me many times before I started and now have been reiterated by many people.

I don't think you can go into medicine hoping for a better financial situation. Also, you need to understand you will have a very difficult and demanding job.

___________________________

Funny thing is, you can work 40 hrs a week as a Family Physician. There are plenty of part time family physicians. Also, PMR is a specialty that requires 40 hour weeks and almost no call.

There are specialties out there that aren't difficult. If you go into Family Medicine, you can get your medical school paid for also. So... you could earn 80 grand or so, with no debt as a physician, working 40 hours a week.

A lot of times people talk about how bad medicine is, but if you knew you wanted less work then you didn't look in depth at specialties. Nor did you take advantage of scholarships that pay for your school if you do primary care.

Your medical career is what you make it.

 

[MCAT guy]

BUT I'M A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE

Yeah, I appreciate all those other stories, worst-case-scenarios, and devil's advocate POVs from friends and colleagues. Interns in general surgery residency programs are just chalk full of sunshine and puppies. 😉

Out of all of them, I had to defriend only one person because it got to the point where every single conversation involved why I shouldn't do this and ended in a blowout argument over it. The best part was he has no ties to the medical field.

Like I said above, for all the horror stories about medicine, there are plenty of easy jobs in medicine that aren't demanding at all.

They are out there, you just need to search for them IF you want them. I don't mind working a ton, so I'm focused on other things, but if you don't like working 70 or 80 hours then don't go into surgery.

 

[QofQuimica]

there are plenty of easy jobs in medicine that aren't demanding at all.

Oh, boy, aren't you in for a rude awakening.

To answer the OP's question, I decided to go to medical school so that I could do clinical research. I had some experience doing anesthesia research while in grad school, and that was my plan. However, I wound up enjoying patient care more than I expected to, and ultimately decided that anesthesia wasn't going to provide that.

I think I've made the right decision, but of course it's hard to say for sure until you get there. One thing I do know is that you have to make the best decision you can, based on the information you have. Hopefully, the more information you have, the better a decision you'll be able to make. So to the premeds out there, you should talk to a bunch of health care providers, not just physicians. Talk to a bunch of physicians in a variety of specialties and practice scenarios, not just one. Finally, go to med school with an open mind, and be prepared for plenty of self-reflection, because you won't know what you like in medical school before you go through it. The good news though is that there is probably some area of medicine that you will enjoy. In fact, I think there probably are three or four different specialties I could have done and found my niche. 🙂

 

[MCAT guy]

Oh, boy, aren't you in for a rude awakening.

Or... Oh girl, you haven't explored every possible thing you can do with an MD degree. 😉

I wonder which one it is.🙂

Example:

The hours are pretty good for PM&R residency, compared with some other specialties. In my entire residency, there have been very few weeks when I worked more than 50 hours. But 50 hours a week of doing something you don't like is a lot of hours, so make sure the field is for you.
.

Example:

He's probably not joking. I know a Peds EM doc in a community hospital who works Fri, Sat and Sun night and pulls 350k. Her kids didn't even realize she worked until she came home late one day and they saw her wearing scrubs.

Example:

Yes. I know FMs that moonlight for ERs through staffing companies on weekends and earn $250k/yr for the moonlighting. Generally leaves them Mon-Thursday off.

Much will depend on location and what you choose to do....

Example (PMR attending):

I know physiatrists who work part time 20 hours per week, and I've known guys who work 60 - 80/wk. Most of us are in b/w likely 40-50 most common.

Call dpends on inpt vs outpt work. Inpt means you are on call at least for your own patients every day, unless you have a group with rotating call - 4 physiatrists = call q4d. PM&R call usually involves taking pages for med questions and patient complaints. Rarely does one need to go in at night, but it happens. As sicker pts go to rehab than previously, this becomes more likely. Rehab admits don't normally happen after 9-5 hours.

When I ran my own 12 bed unit, I only went in after hours about 6-8 times over a 2 year period. You expience may vary.

Example:

Outside of residency, psych still does pretty well. Outpatient only practices without call and less than 50 hours per week can still net $160k-$170k yearly. It pays better than the primary care specialties.

 

[QofQuimica]

Or... Oh girl, you haven't explored every possible thing you can do with an MD degree. 😉

I wonder which one it is.🙂

Nope. Actually, it's that you're confusing a job having fewer hours with it being undemanding. "Easy" is a four letter word in medicine. I'll grant you that some specialties and some jobs have longer hours and more stress than others, but I rather doubt that *any* physician would call their job "easy." In fact, I'd argue that there is no such thing as an easy job in medicine that isn't demanding at all. Unless you aren't practicing.

But don't take my word for it. How about if you ask some of those people whose posts you've quoted if they feel like their jobs are "easy and not demanding at all." *Especially* the EM docs--I'd love to see their replies, assuming they don't violate TOS.

 

[MCAT guy]

Nope. Actually, it's that you're confusing a job having fewer hours with it being undemanding.

Maybe I am.

"Easy" is a four letter word in medicine. I'll grant you that some specialties and some jobs have longer hours and more stress than others, but I rather doubt that *any* physician would call their job "easy." In fact, I'd argue that there is no such thing as an easy job in medicine that isn't demanding at all. Unless you aren't practicing.

But don't take my word for it. How about if you ask some of those people whose posts you've quoted if they feel like their jobs are "easy and not demanding at all." *Especially* the EM docs--I'd love to see their replies, assuming they don't violate TOS.

Q, I always enjoy your posts, so I don't think I can disagree with you.🙂

Good luck on March 14th and 17th, I'll be pulling for you.😉

 

[Helen Wheels]

Going back to "validating," I'll give an ultra brief version of my story.

Tried applying to clinical psych doctoral programs for a few years after undergrad. Was waitlisted a few times, never got in. Was working in inpt pysch and saw how the psychiatrists really helped patients (not all of them, but a lot of them). Decided to try for med school. Yep, funny, huh? I couldn't be a psychologist so I'm gonna be a doctor! Well, statistically speaking, getting a seat in med school is more likely. Anyway, did science pre-reqs at a CC from 1999-2003. Had to take care of an ill parent from 2000-2007. Due to parent's illness, med school went on the back burner. Parent passed away and then it was time to get back on track. Took MCAT in 2009 (twice) and applied to a ton of MD programs and..nothing. Enough rejections letters to wallpaper my bedroom. Second app cycle got in at first DO program I applied to. 🙂

I am 39 years old and, having worked in psych for 16 years and taken care of my terminally ill parent for 7 years, I think I know what I am getting into. I should add that I don't have the things most nontrads have to worry about. I don't have a spouse or children and I certainly don't have a well paying job! So, all the usual objections to med school at my age don't apply.