For those of you in school

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Maybe working for a health department or in some other "public health" office. Or working with OMDs somewhere like the Duke Eye Center.

Non-ideal/would hate it- Fancy offices with $1000 frames and only offer the high end lenses in the optical. I hate that. Or for that matter, any office that puts profit before giving the patient all their options.

Who knows, we'll see. 😀
 
Well - my OD has already offered me a job when I graduate. He is currently a Pearle franchisee. His contract is up for renewal next year and he hasn't decided yet whether to renew or not, but at any rate, when I start working he plans to decrease his hours until he decides to retire (he's a farmer so he only works about 30 hours a week anyway). Then when he retires he wants to sell me the practice and I can take over from there. I'm hoping he doesn't renew the contract because that will give me a lot of years with Pearle, and although I enjoyed working there, I don't know that I'd want to be an OD there for that long. At any rate, it gives me the opportunity to eventually own my own practice.

Let's say this doesn't work out, because anything could happen. I'd probably work corporate a couple years and then hopefully become an associate at a private practice where I could eventually have ownership or part-ownership. If I find a job immediately with a private practice, great!

I definitely don't want to be at corporate forever. I don't plan on opening up my own practice cold. I'm pretty sure I don't want to work at a VA hospital or any other hospital.

My bottom line is that my goal is to own my own practice at some point. Hopefully sooner after graduation rather than later.
 
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I am one of the fortunate ones that has multiple jobs lined up after graduation--in multiple disciplinaries as well. Before OD school I shadowed a doc in private practice, worked at a Lenscrafters as a tech, and worked for an OMD as well. The doctor in private practice took a real liken to me and told me ultimately he would like to pass the on the practice within 8-10 yrs. Working as a tech at Lenscrafters also allowed me to connect with a few docs that would be willing to give me part-time/fill-in work come graduation. I also have a potential lease opportunity at a For Eyes.

Ultimately I would want nothing other than to be in private practice but I understand the need for corporate optometry, at least from an immediate, superficial, financially gratifying point of view. My plan was to work part-time at the private office as well as part-time at one of the corporate positions until I am financially "stable" enough to take on the whole responsibility of the private practice. Obviously there will be plenty of bricks in the wall that will make it difficult for me to put my plan into fruition, so I am definitely not looking at my plan through rose-colored lenses.


As far as what am I looking for? I think I have pretty high, yet realistic financial goals I have set for myself the first few years out. From an employees standpoint, any job offering your standard medical coverage would be a definite plus--from a business standpoint I understand this may be unrealistic working part-time at the private practice, but from a corporate position I think this would be attainable. As far as hours are concerned, I'm used to working weekends and holidays from my years in the food industry so if that's what has to happen to make money a few years out, so be it.

What am I not looking for? Any hourly paying job. For me it's difficult to find motivation to work hard if you're not working towards anything yourself. I think a fee percentage is a fair and realistic goal. No offense to the doctors that work in some of the corporate places like Sam's, Walmart, Sears, JC Penny, Visionworks, etc., but from what my limited point of view has seen these places really undermine our profession and I would not perpetuate the negative conotation they bring to our profession by working at one of these locations, regardless of financial gain. I'm sorry to some if that seems brash but let's face it, monthly coupons offering $39 eye exams does terrible things for our profession that I don't have the energy to even go into right now.
 
When I was shadowing OD's in multiple locations it was easy for me to see where I wanted to end up.

After graduation I will focus on VA positions. Even though the pay is a little lower initially, you get over a month off each year, have fantastic benefits, and dont have to worry about insurance b.s. Plus there are no frames or services to sell, you just get to focus on patient care. From my time there I saw there is a lot of path to see and treat, and I enjoy that ALOT more than pushing frames.

Corporate is definately not for me. I am willing to move to avoid this area at all costs. I cant imagine a H.S. dropout telling me how and when to practice. ANd Im not spending all this time in school to work on Sundays, and with corporate this is always a possibility.

Private practice would also be enjoyable, given the right situation. I did an internship at a 2 doc practice that was grossing 2 mill/yr. They have a smooth operation and a fantastic marketing plan. I think I could duplicate their plan, but starting up cold has more than few bumps.
 
Private practice would also be enjoyable, given the right situation. I did an internship at a 2 doc practice that was grossing 2 mill/yr. They have a smooth operation and a fantastic marketing plan. I think I could duplicate their plan, but starting up cold has more than few bumps.

As a student interested in private practice, what type of marketing did they employ? I am always looking for any tidbits I can find, possibly I can try to duplicate it myself =).
 
Maybe working for a health department or in some other "public health" office.

Out of curiosity what do you see yourself doing in a health department? What do you mean by "other public health office"?

If you aren't already you should really consider joining the American Public Health Association Vision Care section. http://www.apha.org/
 
When I was shadowing OD's in multiple locations it was easy for me to see where I wanted to end up.

After graduation I will focus on VA positions. Even though the pay is a little lower initially, you get over a month off each year, have fantastic benefits, and dont have to worry about insurance b.s. Plus there are no frames or services to sell, you just get to focus on patient care. From my time there I saw there is a lot of path to see and treat, and I enjoy that ALOT more than pushing frames.

Corporate is definately not for me. I am willing to move to avoid this area at all costs. I cant imagine a H.S. dropout telling me how and when to practice. ANd Im not spending all this time in school to work on Sundays, and with corporate this is always a possibility.

Private practice would also be enjoyable, given the right situation. I did an internship at a 2 doc practice that was grossing 2 mill/yr. They have a smooth operation and a fantastic marketing plan. I think I could duplicate their plan, but starting up cold has more than few bumps.

Just curious, how difficult is it to attain a VA position?
 
Out of curiosity what do you see yourself doing in a health department? What do you mean by "other public health office"?

If you aren't already you should really consider joining the American Public Health Association Vision Care section. http://www.apha.org/


Giving eye exams? Seeing all the medicaid patients and pregnant women that come there and their children, etc. Other public health office such as with Prevent Blindness or Congressional Glaucoma Caucas.... things like that. I'm thinking of getting my MPH so I could do some politics stuff too.
 
Giving eye exams? Seeing all the medicaid patients and pregnant women that come there and their children, etc. Other public health office such as with Prevent Blindness or Congressional Glaucoma Caucas.... things like that. I'm thinking of getting my MPH so I could do some politics stuff too.

Awesome. I hadn't heard of any students with this desire before. I wasn't aware that one could work in a "health department" as an optometrist. Maybe its a regional thing. The world of public health is a rewarding one but a difficult road for an optometrist.

Best of luck!
 
What is your ideal position when you graduate? What are you looking for in a potential employer/practice scenario? What are you NOT looking for?

Serious replies only: Please refrain from saying things like "a position that pays me $500000 per year while working a day and a half a week."

I would be looking for someone who would be straight up with me. Not someone who makes vague promises such as "oh... if you work here long enough, I will eventually make you a partner."

I would want everything promised to be on paper, and really I am looking for a position where I can have ownership in the practice. Ideally this is a practice where the current OD is ready to retire, and I can take full ownership of the practice in 1-4 years.

Also, I do not want to simply be an "employee." Even if it is explicitly stated that I will not have any ownership in the practice, I want my opinions to be considered for things that affect my patient's quality of care, such as purchasing equipment or waiving special testing fees for those who cannot afford it.
 
Just curious, how difficult is it to attain a VA position?



To be considered you need to be residency trained or have experience. I believe it is 3 years. I will leave the rest of the question to someone who has gone down that road.

If you can, shadow at least a VA doc, solo or group practice and a commercial practice. I did all 4 and I saw all I needed to by doing that. The solo practice didn’t operate much different than the commercial, but obviously she also had all the benefits and headaches of business ownership. The group practice was very successful and much different than the solo and commercial practice. As I mentioned the VA was much, much different than the others.
 
As a student interested in private practice, what type of marketing did they employ? I am always looking for any tidbits I can find, possibly I can try to duplicate it myself =).

See pm.

Feel free to send me any tips that you have picked up from other offices!
 
Ultimately I would want nothing other than to be in private practice but I understand the need for corporate optometry, at least from an immediate, superficial, financially gratifying point of view. My plan was to work part-time at the private office as well as part-time at one of the corporate positions until I am financially "stable" enough to take on the whole responsibility of the private practice. Obviously there will be plenty of bricks in the wall that will make it difficult for me to put my plan into fruition, so I am definitely not looking at my plan through rose-colored lenses.


As far as what am I looking for? I think I have pretty high, yet realistic financial goals I have set for myself the first few years out. From an employees standpoint, any job offering your standard medical coverage would be a definite plus--from a business standpoint I understand this may be unrealistic working part-time at the private practice, but from a corporate position I think this would be attainable. As far as hours are concerned, I'm used to working weekends and holidays from my years in the food industry so if that's what has to happen to make money a few years out, so be it.

What am I not looking for? Any hourly paying job. For me it's difficult to find motivation to work hard if you're not working towards anything yourself. I think a fee percentage is a fair and realistic goal. No offense to the doctors that work in some of the corporate places like Sam's, Walmart, Sears, JC Penny, Visionworks, etc., but from what my limited point of view has seen these places really undermine our profession and I would not perpetuate the negative conotation they bring to our profession by working at one of these locations, regardless of financial gain. I'm sorry to some if that seems brash but let's face it, monthly coupons offering $39 eye exams does terrible things for our profession that I don't have the energy to even go into right now.

So I guess I'll ask you the same question. You seem to have resigned yourself to working in a corporate environment, at least part time for the foreseeable future, though it sounds like that that is not what you really want for yourself.

So what then, are you doing to ensure that you don't even have to spend one minute in a corporate environment?
 
When I was shadowing OD's in multiple locations it was easy for me to see where I wanted to end up.

After graduation I will focus on VA positions. Even though the pay is a little lower initially, you get over a month off each year, have fantastic benefits, and dont have to worry about insurance b.s. Plus there are no frames or services to sell, you just get to focus on patient care. From my time there I saw there is a lot of path to see and treat, and I enjoy that ALOT more than pushing frames.

.

The VA is the right spot for you.
 
I would be looking for someone who would be straight up with me. Not someone who makes vague promises such as "oh... if you work here long enough, I will eventually make you a partner."

I would want everything promised to be on paper, and really I am looking for a position where I can have ownership in the practice. Ideally this is a practice where the current OD is ready to retire, and I can take full ownership of the practice in 1-4 years.

Also, I do not want to simply be an "employee." Even if it is explicitly stated that I will not have any ownership in the practice, I want my opinions to be considered for things that affect my patient's quality of care, such as purchasing equipment or waiving special testing fees for those who cannot afford it.


What do you bring to the table? What would you bring to my practice that would make me want to make you a partner in 1-4 years? What would/could you add?
 
and dont have to worry about insurance b.s. [...] you just get to focus on patient care....
Yeah, these things and some others I REALLY like about the VA. But I like contact lenses too much to work in a VA.

I loved working in IHS (just for a rotation while I was in school) for the same reasons.
 
What do you bring to the table? What would you bring to my practice that would make me want to make you a partner in 1-4 years? What would/could you add?

Hypothetically, what would you be looking for?
 
Students need to be aware that VA positions are getting more and more competitive. As optometry continues to get dragged down by commercial practice and low paying vision plans the demand is increasing.
 
I asked you first. lol

You tell me what you think you can/want to bring to my practice and I'll tell you what I need.

Damn, I was gonna say exactly what you were looking for 😛

Honestly at this point I feel that I'm not nearly far enough to be able to make a reasonable response other than personality traits & translating abilities.


As for the original question, I'm not sure that I would necessarily want ownership in a practice shortly after graduation, if ever. I want the flexibility to take significant time off when I have children, and having ownership in a practice (solo or partnered) is quite the commitment. I'd rather not go into the commercial world (for the obvious reasons), but if I can't avoid it, I'd want it to be very temporary. I've considered the option of going into research (especially related to neurodegeneration), and I certainly want to do a residency.

Basically, I'm at a loss for what specific type of practice would be able to incorporate everything I'm interested in, but I think VA might offer some interesting possibilities. I'm indifferent money-wise as long as I'm making ends meet-- I'd rather enjoy what I do.
 
Damn, I was gonna say exactly what you were looking for 😛

Honestly at this point I feel that I'm not nearly far enough to be able to make a reasonable response other than personality traits & translating abilities.


As for the original question, I'm not sure that I would necessarily want ownership in a practice shortly after graduation, if ever. I want the flexibility to take significant time off when I have children, and having ownership in a practice (solo or partnered) is quite the commitment. I'd rather not go into the commercial world (for the obvious reasons), but if I can't avoid it, I'd want it to be very temporary. I've considered the option of going into research (especially related to neurodegeneration), and I certainly want to do a residency.

Basically, I'm at a loss for what specific type of practice would be able to incorporate everything I'm interested in, but I think VA might offer some interesting possibilities. I'm indifferent money-wise as long as I'm making ends meet-- I'd rather enjoy what I do.

Ok....what I am looking for....and this is pretty much what every private practice owner is looking for.....is the following:

Can this person make money for me and my practice?

So the question then becomes.....for those interested in becoming a partner in a practice, how are you going to make money for the practice and the practice owners?
 
Yeah, these things and some others I REALLY like about the VA. But I like contact lenses too much to work in a VA.

I loved working in IHS (just for a rotation while I was in school) for the same reasons.

Many VA's do have their fair share of contact lens fits, just depends on where you are. At my current rotation there is a good number of keratocones, post-surgical, aphakic type fits.

Also, I would fully expect to still have to deal with glasses at the VA. These patients have a strong sense of entitlement and they WANT their FREE glasses....they're entitled to it, and they'd better be progressives with transitions... All that and then when the contractor that handles the optical in your medical center does a crappy job, guess who they come to see. 😀
 
Also, I would fully expect to still have to deal with glasses at the VA.
True. What I think stush was getting at, though, was you don't have to deal with SALES. I have observed some private practices where selling materials actually superseded patient care (for example, I would consider it unethical to tell a patient he NEEDS new glasses because his -0.25 diopters of cyl rotated 3 degrees).
 
True. What I think stush was getting at, though, was you don't have to deal with SALES. I have observed some private practices where selling materials actually superseded patient care (for example, I would consider it unethical to tell a patient he NEEDS new glasses because his -0.25 diopters of cyl rotated 3 degrees).


This is EXACTLY what I was talking about.
 
True. What I think stush was getting at, though, was you don't have to deal with SALES. I have observed some private practices where selling materials actually superseded patient care (for example, I would consider it unethical to tell a patient he NEEDS new glasses because his -0.25 diopters of cyl rotated 3 degrees).

My experience has been that this type of scenario is largely a myth. Is it unheard of? No. Of Course not. But it's like the patient with the 20/25 catarct being operated on by an unscrupulous surgeon. Incredibly rare.

Why?

Because patients aren't stupid. Sometimes they're not very sophisticated but they're almost never stupid. Changing an Rx -0.25 cyl 3 degrees is going to result in a patient spending a couple hundred bucks on a pair of glasses that makes no difference in their vision. And it's not something you can hide. The patient will put those glasses on. And when they don't see any different, it's going to be YOU they will complain to. Word like that gets around super fast, and it's no way to sustain a practice.

The only way to build a successful practice is with referrals from satisfied patients. That ain't gonna happen if you employ tactics like that. Also, there is more than enough money to be made in optometry and optical by simply providing honest, compassionate care. There's no need to be a pig about it.
 
My advice...If you don't want to deal with glasses, the DON'T have a dispensary. It is quite possible to just have a little office and do exams, without a dispensary. If you want a dispensary then you better get comfortable with selling glasses. Dispensaries can make a lot of money, but are also expensive to have, so don't have one if it makes you squemish.
 
My advice...If you don't want to deal with glasses, the DON'T have a dispensary. It is quite possible to just have a little office and do exams, without a dispensary. If you want a dispensary then you better get comfortable with selling glasses. Dispensaries can make a lot of money, but are also expensive to have, so don't have one if it makes you squemish.

Even if you are squeamish, have a dispensary and then HIRE SOMEONE to take care of it. You think I spend a lot of my day fretting about people buying glasses? Please....I delegate that to someone else.

I just cash the checks. 👍
 
Even if you are squeamish, have a dispensary and then HIRE SOMEONE to take care of it. You think I spend a lot of my day fretting about people buying glasses? Please....I delegate that to someone else.

I just cash the checks. 👍


Very true, I do the same thing - my optician is extremely competant. However, recommendations from the chair can go a long way to developing a successful dispensary. I learned that when I bought my own practice.
 
My experience has been that this type of scenario is largely a myth. Is it unheard of? No. Of Course not. But it's like the patient with the 20/25 catarct being operated on by an unscrupulous surgeon. Incredibly rare.
Yeah, I agree on pretty much every count. I did encounter it on one of my rotations, though. It wasn't that bad all the time, but it was enough.... If it had been one of my earliest exposures to private practice, I might have been turned off. Of course I'm capable of making my own (more ethical) decisions, and I could logically deduce that it would have to be rare. But it was annoying and frustrating.
 
Very true, I do the same thing - my optician is extremely competant. However, recommendations from the chair can go a long way to developing a successful dispensary. I learned that when I bought my own practice.

But recommending from the chair isn't really selling per se. In fact, it's something that ALL optometrists do regardless of what environment you work in.

Even in the VA, (in fact ESPECIALLY in the VA) patients are going to complain about photophobia, and night driving problems or trouble with the golf game. You make the same recommendations there than you do in your own office. The only difference is, in your own office, you keep the money. Works out pretty well if you ask me. 👍
 
But recommending from the chair isn't really selling per se. In fact, it's something that ALL optometrists do regardless of what environment you work in.

Even in the VA, (in fact ESPECIALLY in the VA) patients are going to complain about photophobia, and night driving problems or trouble with the golf game. You make the same recommendations there than you do in your own office. The only difference is, in your own office, you keep the money. Works out pretty well if you ask me. 👍

I agree with KHE, regardless of what environment you work in you still make recommendations. In the VA as well as military optometry clinic (Army, Air Force, Navy), providers make recommendations based on the patient's needs, requirements, and complaints. The selection of the free spectacles that the VA and DoD provide is limited and might not solve or satisfy the patient's needs. ODs that work in these places are salaried and the VA and DoD don't sell eyeglasses. No reason for recommending from the chair to sell unless they're also recommending where to make the purchase and getting kickbacks.😉
 
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