FOREIGN COUNSELLING degrees recognized?

[Btruax]

Hello all,


So I have completed my undergraduate work here in the states, and now I wish to pursue my masters in counselling in the UK. I was just wondering if anyone has any insight on whether or not doctoral programs are accepting of graduate students from institutions based abroad, particularly in the UK?


Thanks guys!
Barrett

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[VeryHopeful2010]

One of the students from my PhD program came from a masters program in the UK. You will likely get another masters on the way to your PhD, however, and will not be able to practice at the MA level most likely (though check with the board of the state you wish to go to school in). If you can get some research experience during the MA program or publish your MA thesis, that will help greatly with US admissions.

 

[Pragma]

There are some other threads on this topic available. In general, I have heard that transferring foreign degrees makes getting licensed to practice in the US cumbersome at best. I'd check with your state licensing board about how a master's from a foreign country would transfer. I made similar inquiries in my home state prior to graduate school, and ultimately decided against a foreign program because of the hurdles.

Now I recognize that your goal is a doctoral program - so that may be different. But I'd ask yourself if it is worth going for the master's in the first place if you want to end up in a doctoral program out here. It could be a good way to get involved in a specific research area.

 

[paramour]

One of the students from my PhD program came from a masters program in the UK. You will likely get another masters on the way to your PhD, however, and will not be able to practice at the MA level most likely (though check with the board of the state you wish to go to school in). If you can get some research experience during the MA program or publish your MA thesis, that will help greatly with US admissions.

Not necessarily. I was admitted directly as a prospective PhD candidate due to my master's. I did not receive another master's along the way... even though I completed all the same coursework and had to complete a "master's level project" while there since they accepted my thesis. All other students in the program must apply for PhD candidacy upon completion of their master's degrees (so "technically" they're in a PhD program but only admitted for a MA for purposes of admission/grad school standards--even though the program does not have a terminal MA).

 

[Btruax]

I don't understand why I would be required to get another MA along the way to my PhD? Do schools not recognize the legitimacy of foreign degrees then or is it just inherent in most programs that you have to progress through the entire spectrum from MA to PHD?

Also I forgot to mention this before, but I would also be equally interested in a Psych D as I don't have any real huge aspiration to teach or pursue research. I'm not sure if this would change things at all for me.

Lastly, Paramour, do you mean to say you had to do all of same work that a masters student would without earning the title? Meaning that your UK masters didn't save you any time in pursuing your PhD?. Or am I possibly misunderstanding you?


Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it!


Barrett

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Having to repeat master's coursework doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the fact that the degree is foreign. Many clinical PhD programs are MA-PhD programs and will not accept other school's coursework no matter how respected the school or how well you did. This happened to people in my program. However, there are programs that require a master's for entry (it seems like counseling psych programs do this more than clinical.)

Other people may have more input on this. I did not have any graduate coursework before entering my program, so I wasn't completely tuned in to this issue.

Best,
Dr. E

 

[paramour]

I don't understand why I would be required to get another MA along the way to my PhD? Do schools not recognize the legitimacy of foreign degrees then or is it just inherent in most programs that you have to progress through the entire spectrum from MA to PHD?

Also I forgot to mention this before, but I would also be equally interested in a Psych D as I don't have any real huge aspiration to teach or pursue research. I'm not sure if this would change things at all for me.

Lastly, Paramour, do you mean to say you had to do all of same work that a masters student would without earning the title? Meaning that your UK masters didn't save you any time in pursuing your PhD?. Or am I possibly misunderstanding you?


Thanks for all the input guys I really appreciate it!


Barrett

Ah, I apparently caused some confusion here. Sorry about that!

I was *attempting* to convey that simply because you enter with a master's degree (regardless of where it is from) does not necessarily mean that you will earn another master's degree along the way as the previously quoted poster suggested...

I did NOT receive my master's from a program in the UK. My master's was earned in the US, and I only received credit for perhaps one or two of the courses (they were basics/electives at that). I also received credit for my thesis, but I was still required to complete another "project" to verify that I was able to do things "their" way. As Doctor E rightly mentioned, repeating coursework has absolutely nothing to do with whether the degree is foreign (obviously, as mine is not). Our program will not accept any clinical coursework, and reviews select other courses on a case by case basis (usually only a stats class or two max and maybe a few electives outside the dept); then they put a cap on the number of electives you can transfer in to boot. My US master's has not saved me any time whatsover (I also did not anticipate it doing so before I pursued it, so there was no skin off my back); and I will be completing the PhD degree within the same amount of time as the other students who entered in my cohort.

Having to repeat master's coursework doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the fact that the degree is foreign. Many clinical PhD programs are MA-PhD programs and will not accept other school's coursework no matter how respected the school or how well you did. This happened to people in my program. However, there are programs that require a master's for entry (it seems like counseling psych programs do this more than clinical.)

Other people may have more input on this. I did not have any graduate coursework before entering my program, so I wasn't completely tuned in to this issue.

Best,
Dr. E

+1. Right on here. I applied to mostly clinical programs, although I reviewed (and applied to a few) counseling programs as well. There were more counseling programs that required a MA for admissions (can't recall any clinical off the top of my head, although I'm sure there may be some), and counseling programs that didn't require a MA seemed more likely to accept more coursework for transfer credit than clinical programs (IN MY EXPERIENCE).

So, in the end, a master's in the US is going to be a crapshoot as to whether you "save time" or receive credit for previous work completed. I suspect that a master's outside the US will only serve to complicate issues (as they try to figure out what's comparable, etc.), but you will likely experience similar issues in that you're not going to know if you receive credit until you check with the programs that you intend to apply (and often, they tell you that they won't review it until after you're accepted...).

G'luck!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

My program worked similarly to paramour's: those who entered with a master's (of which I was not one) only received credit for a select few classes (generally two at most), and in many cases, they had to "make up" the total hours in some way (e.g., if they received credit for intermediate stats, they still had to make the class hours up somehow, such as with advanced stats, SEM, research methods, etc.).

Those who received credit for their theses didn't have to conduct another thesis, and also didn't have to conduct an intermediate project as did paramour, but it was generally assumed that they would participate in some type of novel research project prior to their dissertation in the place of a thesis.

As for a Psy.D.: if you truly have no interest in conducting (which isn't exactly what you said in your post, per se), then you might want to look into licensable master's degrees, as that would save you potential aggravation--even Psy.D. degrees (if they are from a solid program) are going to require you to conduct research. However, if you're ok with research, and just don't want to pursue it as a career path, then a Ph.D./Psy.D. could still represent a good option, depending on what your career goals are. Keep in mind, though, that finding funding with a Psy.D. is tough, and without funding, many programs are prohibitively expensive.

 

[mewtoo]

While you guys are on the subject of transferring masters credits I have a quick question for you:

For plan B I'm looking at experimental masters programs. One of the schools with a clinical phD also has a experimental masters. Whats more is that the POI I had in mind mentors for both programs so I obviously would want to go there if I had to get a masters first. Now to the point, do you think they would let all those credits count (or at least how many is allowed to transfer) and the thesis count too since it was at their school and I would presumably be working with the same mentor?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

While you guys are on the subject of transferring masters credits I have a quick question for you:

For plan B I'm looking at experimental masters programs. One of the schools with a clinical phD also has a experimental masters. Whats more is that the POI I had in mind mentors for both programs so I obviously would want to go there if I had to get a masters first. Now to the point, do you think they would let all those credits count (or at least how many is allowed to transfer) and the thesis count too since it was at their school and I would presumably be working with the same mentor?

I'd be surprised if they didn't let the thesis count, and I'd imagine you could contact them before proposing/conducting it to be sure it'd be adequate to meet their requirements. I'd be less-inclined to think they'd let many of the classes transfer, as the degree is going to require that you take a certain number of class hours while enrolled in the doctoral rather than masters program. Thus, even if the classes do transfer, you may need to make up a certain number of hours by taking courses that might otherwise be optional.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

While you guys are on the subject of transferring masters credits I have a quick question for you:

For plan B I'm looking at experimental masters programs. One of the schools with a clinical phD also has a experimental masters. Whats more is that the POI I had in mind mentors for both programs so I obviously would want to go there if I had to get a masters first. Now to the point, do you think they would let all those credits count (or at least how many is allowed to transfer) and the thesis count too since it was at their school and I would presumably be working with the same mentor?

Not sure this is relevant here, but it is worth saying in case it applies to any readers here.... At this school, if you complete the experimental master's, are you expected to complete the PhD there? Is it a combined MA-PhD experimental program? I ask because some students try to use "back door" strategies for entering clinical programs, such as applying to a school's social psych program because they want to secretly transfer to the clinical program. This often backfires and burns bridges.

I don't think that is what you mean, but it is something to be aware of.

Dr. E

 

[mewtoo]

Not sure this is relevant here, but it is worth saying in case it applies to any readers here.... At this school, if you complete the experimental master's, are you expected to complete the PhD there? Is it a combined MA-PhD experimental program? I ask because some students try to use "back door" strategies for entering clinical programs, such as applying to a school's social psych program because they want to secretly transfer to the clinical program. This often backfires and burns bridges.

I don't think that is what you mean, but it is something to be aware of.

Dr. E

No, they have a terminal masters (2 versions, actually) and a doctoral program for experimental psych. The masters is designed to make you a competitive applicant for doctoral programs as its very rigorous. I think it said its normal to have around 7 publications by the time you graduate. I'm planning on applying for the terminal masters and the separate clinical phD program. I'd never even thought of a "back door" route. I don't even see how people would think that it would work.