Foreign education or Na?

[thinkingitout]

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Hey guys. I'm a senior premed student at a small southern school in the US. I've spent the past 9 months or so working through the med school application process and am currently wait listed and waiting on an admittance call.

Here's my dilemma.

I was recently informed about several med schools in the Caribbean that are fully accredited in all 50 states of the US. After researching some of these schools, I've come to the conclusion that attending any foreign or international med school is taking a risk, and success can greatly differ from student to student. I have always known that I want to travel, and plan on spending the majority of my medical career working overseas. I do not believe that I will spend my entire life in the US, and look forward to living and practicing in countries around the world. The med school for which I am currently wait listed is a great school, but it is in the same area where I have lived my entire life and I have a hard time picturing myself being happy there. My question is, should I take a chance and continue pursuing my dreams of travel and becoming a qualified MD, or should I take the safe road and stay here for my education?

I know that this is ultimately a choice that I will have to make for myself, but I would very much appreciate input from other students or past students that may have been in the same position as myself. I am completely aware of the stigma associated with foreign and international med schools, but I believe that many times these are due to a lack of effort or determination by the student, and not a lack of opportunity by the school. In other words, if you believe that your at a second rate school, you'll act like a second rate student, and you won't be successful. I have always been a highly determined person, and there is no doubt in my mind that I will be successful no matter where I go because I am willing to put in the work to make it happen. With all this in mind, I would really appreciate your opinion.

And also if anyone has any experience with foreign medical practice, or education, I would love to hear about it.

 

[Taddy Mason]

n=11, but everyone I've known that has gone to either the Carib or a European school instead of US MD/DO didn't make it. Most were dismissed in the first 2 years, one made it to the end of 3rd year before being dismissed and it took him 5 years just to make it that far. The negative things on SDN and the rest of teh interwebz are consistent with everything the ones I've talked to since coming back have had to say about their experience.

 

[thinkingitout]

n=11, but everyone I've known that has gone to either the Carib or a European school instead of US MD/DO didn't make it. Most were dismissed in the first 2 years, one made it to the end of 3rd year before being dismissed and it took him 5 years just to make it that far. The negative things on SDN and the rest of teh interwebz are consistent with everything the ones I've talked to since coming back have had to say about their experience.

Thanks for the info! Just out of curiousity, do you know why the people you knew that went to foreign universities didn't make it? I don't mean to be rude, I've just had friends that were in the same situation and flunked out due to partying, lack of studying, etc. The more I read online, the more I wonder if the universities are at fault, or if it's the individual's themselves

 

[WedgeDawg]

Moving to pre-allo

 

[thinkingitout]

Moving to pre-allo

Huh? Please elaborate

 

[WedgeDawg]

Huh? Please elaborate

This question is essentially a "where should I go to medical school" question which is more appropriate for discussion in the pre-allopathic forum than in the medical student forum, so I moved it after discussion with other staff members.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Thanks for the info! Just out of curiousity, do you know why the people you knew that went to foreign universities didn't make it? I don't mean to be rude, I've just had friends that were in the same situation and flunked out due to partying, lack of studying, etc. The more I read online, the more I wonder if the universities are at fault, or if it's the individual's themselves

They either had no business going to med school, were not remotely open to considering DO, or had issues with delayed gratification (e.g., didn't want to go though more than 1 application cycle, didn't want to take time to re-take classes or do a SMP, didn't want to retake the MCAT, etc). One had low stats even for many DO programs, but managed to get an MD acceptance, was dismissed early into first year, went to the Carib after that, and didn't last long there either (all funded by parents btw). Carib schools offer pretty much 0 support to students who run into academic issues or are having personal issues outside of school. They also tend to have very strict dismissal policies regarding failures or not passing exams used to determine success on Step.

Edit - I'll also add that the reasons for going overseas for these individual all point towards personality characteristics that are less than desirable in a physician.

 

[thinkingitout]

This question is essentially a "where should I go to medical school" question which is more appropriate for discussion in the pre-allopathic forum than in the medical student forum, so I moved it after discussion with other staff members.

Ah. I think there may have been a miscommunication. I was hoping to hear from current, or past medical students that had faced this decision before or had some experience in foreign medical education. I doubt many pre med students would be able to provide the insight that I'm looking for.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Ah. I think there may have been a miscommunication. I was hoping to hear from current, or past medical students that had faced this decision before or had some experience in foreign medical education. I doubt many pre med students would be able to provide the insight that I'm looking for.

SDN's policy is for threads to be posted in the forum where they are most topically appropriate, which would be pre-allo for this one. But never fear! Many medical students, residents, attendings, and others frequent pre-allo, so you're still likely to hear from your intended audience.

 

[W19]

Ah. I think there may have been a miscommunication. I was hoping to hear from current, or past medical students that had faced this decision before or had some experience in foreign medical education. I doubt many pre med students would be able to provide the insight that I'm looking for.

Some med students also hang out in the pre-allo forum...

I would say don't do it because the odds will be against you... When you are spending that much money, you want to know that the school is invested in your success... Most if not all people who go to these schools think they can beat the odds, but medical school is an uncharted territory because of so many roadblocks you will encounter along the way... and if you have a school that is not invested in your success, things can get very tricky...

 

[Ad2b]

I know of 3 - just 3 - that have matriculated, graduated and found residencies from Carib schools (AUC to be specific).

The first two were funded by their physician parents.

The 3rd, I've never felt comfortable knowing that info, however, he is a successful plastic surgeon in Hollyweird.

3 people in several years that I've heard of and personally know.

Not great odds.

 

[ed*26]

Globe hopping can be difficult with mountains of debt and no job prospects.

Why not explore different parts of the US? You can find a large variety of landscapes and cultures to suit your taste for something different without compromising your goal to become a physician. If you do some research and hop over to WAMC you'll be able to find many schools across the US that will take you far, far from home. If you're concerned about OOS costs, Caribbean schools can be VERY expensive (and leave you without a degree to boot).

You're correct that you can go to a Caribbean school, match into the US, and turn out perfectly fine. However in general med school is very difficult and you want a school that will work for you, not against you, and the statistical and anecdotal evidence points towards Caribbean schools failing to provide basic support (have you looked up attrition rates?). You've had one unsuccessful cycle; you have a lot of mileage left.

You also haven't provided us with your thoughts as to why your cycle was unsuccessful. Why do you think you will be different from other Carib dropouts? Focus on being a strong reinvention candidate, get into a US MD, then worry about globe hopping.

 

[673441]

You don't wanna ask this question here haha! This isn't a "FMG" friendly forum.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Taddy Mason]

This isn't a "FMG" friendly forum.

Hmmm, I wonder why ...

 

[Lawpy]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/caribbean-md-or-crna.1191947/#post-17600322

I have written on this extensively and the above thread will give the best data/numbers/chances in getting thru offshore and getting any residency slot.

The difficulty is a decade or more ago, some of the better schools were a reasonable route to medicine. That is not true anymore

I fail to understand why US applicants are willing to go overseas for medical school but demand to match back into the US for residency. Why won't they just practice overseas?

 

[Lucca]

I fail to understand why US applicants are willing to go overseas for medical school but demand to match back into the US for residency. Why won't they just practice overseas?

You don't have to spend very long in the countries where Carib schools are located to know that you would have a better lot as a middle school teacher living in the US

 

[Lawpy]

They are going overseas because they couldnt get into a US school and want to practice here. Additionally, the off shore school system, the medical education industrial complex if you will, is partly a creature of the some US State's policies from the 1970 when getting doctors to practice in large urban hospitals was nearly impossible. For example, New York State had a formal policy and process to approve off shore schools rather than spend state money to open other SUNY medical schools. I am also under the impression that most countries that take US students for medical schools have laws/policies against them staying to practice. Certainly the most of Caribbean seem to not make it easy for US citizens to practice medicine in the that country.

So the US applicants who go overseas are literally walking into a trap! What a lack of foresight!

You don't have to spend very long in the countries where Carib schools are located to know that you would have a better lot as a middle school teacher living in the US

Then why apply overseas in the first place? Why can't the applicants simply pursue alternative careers?

 

[Lucca]

So the US applicants who go overseas are literally walking into a trap! What a lack of foresight!



Then why apply overseas in the first place? Why can't the applicants simply pursue alternative careers?

Nobody wants to give up on their dreams and everyone wants to believe they are the exception to the rule.

 

[Lawpy]

Nobody wants to give up on their dreams and everyone wants to believe they are the exception to the rule.

... then why not stay overseas and practice? I know i'm repeating myself but i think i got stuck somewhere in this cycle of irrationality here. Maybe it's just selfishness?

There is a large emotional/psychological drive with being a doctor that is beyond the rational aspects of choosing this profession

I'm aware but... they are conflicting with the expectations of admissions. That's where i got confused because it's clear admissions is largely a reasonable process. But that doesn't mean emotion should override planning...

Well, at least it's very strongly evident why adcoms here say going to overseas is a severe red flag.

 

[Goro]

Denial is more than a river in Africa. You have a population of students who are for lack of better terms marks. The Caribbean diploma Mills know this and made their business models accordingly.

The lack of foresight is one of the reasons why they have to go to the Caribbean. Meaning they have deficits which prevent them in correcting the very flaws that prevent them from going to American Medical Schools wHeTher MD or DO

So the US applicants who go overseas are literally walking into a trap! What a lack of foresight!



Then why apply overseas in the first place? Why can't the applicants simply pursue alternative careers?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Go Carib, if you can't use the search function then you deserve all that it entails.

 

[Lawpy]

Just because a person is a rational and intelligent being, doesnt mean that they cant be overwhelmed by the emotional and psychological desires they have

I agree. It's just a bit... disappointing

 

[TBV]

Don't bother applying to the carib I'll do all the hard work for you.

Just give me $250,000 and I'll make you jump through a bunch of hoops and then I'll tell you that you're a failure.

This way sure you're out a quarter of a million dollars but at least I saved you the opportunity cost of years off your life.
So you're welcome.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm a big fan of sodium myself, would take it over a foreign education any day.

 

[ChrisMack390]

If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

Getting an MD without any of the usual academic credentials both sounds and is too good to be true.

 

[Taddy Mason]

I'm a big fan of sodium myself, would take it over a foreign education any day.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm a big fan of sodium myself, would take it over a foreign education any day.

I agree. It's sodium fine