Foreign med schools

[sweetthang]

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hey guys! what do ya'll think about going to a foreign med school in central america? i was considering applying but am not all that sure about it. thanks...

p.s. nene no me escribas nada, ya se lo que tu piensas...😀

 

[Dr JPH]

You couldn't pay me enough money to attend a foreign school...particularly in Central America.

If you want to practice and live down there, that's another story...then I would say go for it.

 

[maysqrd]

I would stay away from any foreign medical school that is not in a US province, i.e. virgin islands. When I was in my interview at TUCOM, they said that foreign med students are going to be having a really hard time of it because of 9/11. Also, per the ER doc I worked with that was a foreign grad "do not go to foreign schools, just keep applying until you finally get into a US school."

 

[VijayEM]

Central America?

St. Georges University in Grenada would be the only one worth attending if you are in the US already.

 

[jhug]

really odd place for this post don't ya think? A foreign md school post in a pre-do forum seems slightly out of place-- anyway, i guess a lot depends on the degree-- if you are dying to have the MD at whatever the cost, go foreign---if being a physician is most important, i'd definately stay state-side. inho, you would most likely get a much better education in a US institution. Of course there are a ton of docs that have done that route so it is very possible.

 

[osteopeddoc]

Foreign med schools are ALOT of money, considering that you are far from the comforts of home land. It can be isolating and third world conditions can exist outside of the campus area. Different food, toiletries, etc-all things to consider. Also, (not sure how true this is) but I have heard many try to weed out people so that by the time boards come, they will have a high % passing the boards, while still getting the tuition money for a few years by accepting alot of students. Most everyone would agree-if you can, go the DO route.

 

[tuesday]

I'm interested in practicing overseas , so i looked into med schools abroad...but it just seems too risky. if you are really seeking an international experience, i would attend a US school, and try to do some rotations abroad (either during the summer or 3rd/4th years) if you want more info, do a search in the international forum. i've heard of a school in mexico- UAG that has a special program with a school in ny, nycom i believe, where north american students can do an internship and increase their chances of an american residency match.

 

[abw]

if you're looking for foreign experiences within a d.o. school as opposed to a foreign school, nova has opportunities. every summer they have a trip somewhere where students work in patient care clinics. i think all four years of med school are eligible, and i think the experiences are within the caribbean & central america.

 

[Dr JPH]

Also, DOs are able to practice in many foreign countries.

Good luck

 

[slave4MD]

Apply to either Ross University or St. George's University for an MD. Both are in the Carribean, but you will only spend 1- 2 years there. The remainder of the curriculum will be clinicals at US ACGME hospitals.

I noticed grads of both schools getting their first/second choices for residencies. For residencies, you were qualified to get accepted, just like any US grad in that program.

Come fellowship time, the PDs will care about how well you did in your residency. Your medical education is now of lesser importance.

But, of course, it will be an uphill battle because you were unable to get a med education thru the proper route.

As for DO schools, they're good but think long and hard as to whether you really want that DO letters after your name. Except for people like us, most won't know what a DO is. A lot of DOs end up in primary care and they prefer to sit for MD residencies.

 

[drusso]

Originally posted by slave4MD

As for DO schools, they're good but think long and hard as to whether you really want that DO letters after your name. Except for people like us, most won't know what a DO is. A lot of DOs end up in primary care and they prefer to sit for MD residencies.

I rather like having DO behind my name. There is a rich history associated with osteopathic medicine and we have unique philosophy of patient care. The United States is the only country that has two bona-fide schools of complete medical education. Nurses carry out my orders, pharmacies fill my prescriptions, patients seem to take my advice. I've matriculated into one of the top five programs in my field---what sort of disadvantages should I be looking out for?

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Originally posted by drusso
Nurses carry out my orders, pharmacies fill my prescriptions, patients seem to take my advice. I've matriculated into one of the top five programs in my field---what sort of disadvantages should I be looking out for?

Game, set, and match....

 

[maysqrd]

From the recent article posted on Yahoo Health News found in thread link posted by Fenrezz: "When people ask me, I use the analogy of the Democrats and the Republicans. They are both writing laws, but are coming at them with different philosophies," says Dr. Tyler Cymet, a doctor of osteopathy and a professor at Johns Hopkins Medical School in Baltimore. "M.D.s and D.O.s are both in the business of healing, but they have different philosophies and a different orientation."

Adds Dr. J. Edward Hill, chairman of the American Medical Association: "The position of the American Medical Association is that M.D.s and D.O.s are perfectly comparable. There are no significant differences between the two. We are very supportive of each other, and it's been a good arrangement."

I think Slave4MD needs to keep up on his homework.

 

[dvdrv31]

If you are considering a foreign medical school, then only consider St. Georges. My cousin went there, good education, low dropout rate, good residency placement (relatively speaking for foreign schools)

 

[slave4MD]

Originally posted by maysqrd
I think Slave4MD needs to keep up on his homework.

I am a good, humble, loyal, and warm person. Obviously, I never miss my homework.

Legally, MDs and DOs are the same. But do you think patients are usually familiar with DOs? Would they usually forgo MDs for DOs?

 

[group_theory]

>Legally, MDs and DOs are the same. But do you think patients are usually familiar with DOs? Would they usually forgo MDs for DOs?>

No, patients are not familar with DOs. The majority of patients seen by DOs do not even know that their doctors are osteopathic physicians (unless they pratice OMT). A majority of people choose their doctors based on locality, HMO listings, price, speciality, recommendations of family/friends, etc.

Most patients would ask docs if they are board certified and how many times they have performed certain procedures, not "Are you a MD and not a DO?"

I work in a large highly ranked (according to USNews and Child Magazine) pediatric tertiary care hospital and I have noticed both MDs and DOs (yes, there are DOs here) working side by side. The MDs I have talked to (attendings, fellows, residents, and allopath med students) have shown no bias against osteopathic medicine. The bias that I've seen mainly originates from pre-meds.

To sum up, most patients will not purposely choose a MD over a DO based on his degree. Many of them will just assume MD stands for Medical Doctor, and DO stands for doctor.

 

[premed128]

If I need a Doctor, and I see a DO in a white coat, I will be very satisfied because I know for sure that a DO has compelted his education in the most scientifically advanced country in the world, USA.

A doctor with a DO can only be a grduate from the US and no where else. As far as MDs are concerned , an MD could be a graduate from a third world country, with a very low and primitive standard of education and when I see an MD, I am always worried about his credentials. There is a good chance that an MD in a white coat might be a graduate from a so called Cribbean med school, whose only interest is in 28K IN dollars instead of 28 IN mcat.

A DO will always have a high standrad because he graduated from the US. That is the bottom line.

 

[VijayEM]

Originally posted by premed128
If I need a Doctor, and I see a DO in a white coat, I will be very satisfied because I know for sure that a DO has compelted his education in the most scientifically advanced country in the world, USA.

A doctor with a DO can only be a grduate from the US and no where else. As far as MDs are concerned , an MD could be a graduate from a third world country, with a very low and primitive standard of education and when I see an MD, I am always worried about his credentials.

So doctors from foreign countries are no good? What kind of logic is this? Some of the best doctors I have met are from abroad. Remember, don't get into this pre-med narrow stereotype. Medical education depends on the person.

 

[slave4MD]

But it's the residencies and fellowships that are more important.

A DO might have graduated from a US med school but he might land in a DO medical center for primary care. You can't deny that most DOs end up in primary care and that proves that DOs are not as skilled as US MDs. Also, DOs usually compete for MD residencies, not DO residencies.

My undergrad had a presitigious medical center, and there were only 2 DOs there but 4 MDs from SGU/Ross.

On the other hand, an SGU or Ross grad ( not bad, clinicals in the US )might get into NYU, Cornell, or Penn State for residencies ( it happened many times ). Come fellowship time, the grades he recieved from his residency will be more important than the medical school he went to.

Would you still go to the DO who went to the US school but landed in a crap hospital or the Carribean MD that made it into university hospitals? Of course, it could happen the other way around.

Also, patients rarely go to doctors and ask what school they went to. But they will want to check your title, which would be an MD or DO. Like most people, they won't know what a DO is.

 

[metsn02]

Originally posted by slave4MD
But it's the residencies and fellowships that are more important.

A DO might have graduated from a US med school but he might land in a DO medical center for primary care. You can't deny that most DOs end up in primary care and that proves that DOs are not as skilled as US MDs. Also, DOs usually compete for MD residencies, not DO residencies.

My undergrad had a presitigious medical center, and there were only 2 DOs there but 4 MDs from SGU/Ross.

On the other hand, an SGU or Ross grad ( not bad, clinicals in the US )might get into NYU, Cornell, or Penn State for residencies ( it happened many times ). Come fellowship time, the grades he recieved from his residency will be more important than the medical school he went to.

Would you still go to the DO who went to the US school but landed in a crap hospital or the Carribean MD that made it into university hospitals? Of course, it could happen the other way around.

Also, patients rarely go to doctors and ask what school they went to. But they will want to check your title, which would be an MD or DO. Like most people, they won't know what a DO is.

Man, your really hung up on those two letters at the end of your name. You write about it in just about every one of your posts and your name is "slave4md". Do us all a favor and if you don't know about the medical profession, feel free not to post about it. You just serve to perpetuate the uninformed and ignorant "pre-med" mentality of medicine, which is so far from reality it is comical. (For a good laugh head over to the international forum and see how many people have MD next to their user name in the Ross or SGU threads).

Oh and I love your simplistic logic regarding the "skills" of DO's compared to MD's. Yes alot of DO's enter Family Practice, however the same can be said of MD's. Where do you get the notion that Family Medical practioners are somehow less skilled at medicine than specialists or subspecialists? Has this been fed to you by the propaganda machine that is the rumor mill at your "prestigious undergraduate medical center?" Please do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the history of medicine in America. Also educate yourself on the demographics of health care delivery in today's medical climate, I think you'll be surprised to see where the delivery of health care services is weakest (hint - its not in big "prestigious" university hospitals).

So let's see here, we have a pre-med who is hung up on the MD after his name. Thinks its all about getting the university based residency. Looks down upon physicians in family practice as somehow "inferior" to other physicians Sounds like your well on your way to a narcissistic career of hierarchical nonsense.

Until you've spent any time in a hospital or a clinic as a volunteer (which from your posts sounds like you have yet to do), keep your opinions to yourself and get your facts in order before you go arguing about petty initials and mistruths.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Originally posted by slave4MD
You can't deny that most DOs end up in primary care and that proves that DOs are not as skilled as US MDs.

That logic is truly underwhelming. And you're supposedly going to be an MD? Please stop this ridiculous line of reasoning and quit giving MDs a bad name.

 

[jhug]

The MDs I have talked to (attendings, fellows, residents, and allopath med students) have shown no bias against osteopathic medicine. The bias that I've seen mainly originates from pre-meds.

AMEN!!!!!

You can't deny that most DOs end up in primary care and that proves that DOs are not as skilled as US MDs

possibly the most foolish comment i've ever seen on this site!!

 

[bla_3x]

I agree that most osteopaths go into primary care. I mean, that is something that osteopthic medicine as an institution is very proud of. But going into primary care is a CHOICE, just the same as it is with allopathic students.

metsn02, thank you for the informaive and logical reply to that, person's, uncalled for, and totally unqualified remarks. Personally, if I am ill I know that I will be treated well by either a DO or MD...just as long as it is NOT someone like slave4MD

It's not what letters you have after your name...it's whether you BELIEVE in the letters after your name! And if you do truely believe in them, then you will be a great doctor!

 

[maysqrd]

Originally posted by slave4MD
You can't deny that most DOs end up in primary care and that proves that DOs are not as skilled as US MDs.

Slave, could you maybe cite your references and the articles that you learned this, ever so intelligent, conclusion from? What study was it that proved this? Is there a report that MD's are keeping secret that DO's don't know about?? Oh, but then I assume by this, so well qualified, comment that you are also inferring that primary care MD's aren't as well skilled as MD specialists then either??

trolls can be so entertaining can't they!

 

[group_theory]

Slave4MD wrote
>Also, patients rarely go to doctors and ask what school they went to. But they will want to check your title, which would be an MD or DO. Like most people, they won't know what a DO is.>

It seems you have little or no clinical experience or you have yet to work w/ real patients.

Why would a patient check to see if their doctor is a MD or DO if the patient didn't know that DO exists or that there are differences between the two? Why would you assume that the patient would be biased against DOs if the patient didn't know what DOs are?

On rare occasions when a patient notices the DO initial, the doctor usually replies "Oh, DOs are the same as MD except we get more training" and the patient is usually satisfy with that response.

Why do you assume that most allopathic residency program directors are biased against DOs? The few that I've talked to have great respect for osteopathic medicine. Why would they choose a FMG MD over a DO (if everything was equal)? Choosing an FMG MD over DO means less money for their institution (and money is important, especially with the new rules regarding Medicare reimbursements to teaching hospitals).

Also, you assume MDs are universal. Although equivalent, the doctors in commonwealth countries have MBBS, MBBCh, BMBS, etc. In fact, an MD is a research degree allowing the doctors to be called "Mister"

To sum up, in the US, most people do not know that DO exists and are not biased towards them (you can't be biased against something if you don't know that what that something is).

You mentioned that patients check for title. When you see a patient, you go "Hi, I'm Dr. John Doe" not "Hi, I'm John Doe, MD" or "Hi, I'm John Doe, DO" If you refer yourself as doctor, and everyone else refers to you as doctor, the patient won't notice a difference.

 

[drusso]

Originally posted by slave4MD
But it's the residencies and fellowships that are more important.

A DO might have graduated from a US med school but he might land in a DO medical center for primary care. You can't deny that most DOs end up in primary care and that proves that DOs are not as skilled as US MDs. Also, DOs usually compete for MD residencies, not DO residencies.

Oh, Lord! Where do you get this stuff? Osteopathic medicine *EMPHASIZES* primary care training as part of a tradition and philosophy of whole person wellness, not because DO's lack the skill set to be a competent specialist. An argument can be made (and many specialists have said so) that being a good primary care doctor is actually more difficult than being a specialist because one must deal with a wider spectrum of undifferentiated disease and pathology.

Thus, osteopathic schools *SELECT* applicants with an aptitude for primary care training as evidenced by career/volunteer experiences in underserved or primary care settings, "people skills," familiarity with osteopathic medicine and principles of practice, etc. Osteopathic schools train students to become any sort of physician they wish, but specialize in primary care training. It's sort of like the difference between attending a small liberal arts college that emphasizes a classical approach to knowledge and learning versus a large undergraduate university that makes students declare a major after their third semester.

Moreover, top primary care programs in FP, IM, peds, and OB/GYN literally fawn over DO applicants. I've seen it year after year after year. DO's also compete exceptionally well for specialty slots too. In my graduating class at TCOM, we matched students into specialties at the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo, Harvard, UT Southwestern Medical Center, UCSD, and tons of other places.

You are doing premeds a disservice by promolugating misinformation about the training, skills, and career opportunities available for osteopathic graduates. You need to get your facts straight: Osteopathic graduates have the same opportunities available to them as allopathic graduates. Osteopathic medical training will be of a slightly different "flavor" in the sense that it is imbued with a philosophy of patient care that, in addition to state of the art biomedical approaches taught at traditional allopathic medical schools, also emphasizes primary care medical training, manual medicine as a means to improve the body's ability to function and heal, and a strong bias towards the prevention and early detection of disease over more specialized "disease management" approaches.

 

[Fenrezz]

I've never said this about anyone on here, but Slave4MD, you have to be the most ignorant person on SDN.

What's amazing to me is not that you clueless about the difference between DO's and MD's (and let me reassure you that whatever you believe, you most certainly are clueless), but that you have no qualms about advertising your ignorance to so many people who understand allopathic and osteopathic medicine.

What you fail to realize, probably because it helps justify your *****ic thinking, is that DO students have to take the same classes, and pass the same style board exams, as well as go through the same residencies as MD's. How that makes someone less skilled is beyond me.

I'm betting you're naieve enough to think that the classes at DO schools are easier because we couldn't handle the material as well. Makes you wonder how so many DO students take and pass the USMLE as well as the required COMLEX.

Take a clue from the fact that none of the pre-md students are defending you. If you don't like DO's, that's fine. However, defending your opinion with the arguments used 50 years ago makes you, and your thinking, outdated.

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Osteopathic medicine *EMPHASIZES* primary care training as part of a tradition and philosophy of whole person wellness, not because DO's lack the skill set to be a competent specialist. An argument can be made (and many specialists have said so) that being a good primary care doctor is actually more difficult than being a specialist because one must deal with a wider spectrum of undifferentiated disease and pathology.

I wholeheartedly agree. One of the reasons I wanted to become a DO was because of the lack of skill and caring of the majority of MDs that I've had as primary care physicians throughout my lifetime. The first doctor that I went to that treated me as a person rather than another one of his /her endless zombies of a patient that walk through his/her door was a DO. Does this mean that there are no good primary care physicians who are MDs? No. But it does indicate a little about the training received by the MDs who I saw as a patient. Now I have seen DOs who have the same problem. But from my perspective, the DOs that I've encountered care much more about the well being of their patients (in the long run) than do the MDs.

As for popularity of doctors, my current PCP happens to be the most one of the most popular doctors in the town that he practices. He happens to be a DO. The waiting list to see him for an OMT intake exam is more than 3 months. Now this is a bit frustrating and I don't think he should be taking in new patients, but I do think that it speaks for his reputation and ability in a small town with a high volume of physicians.

Some of the people on this board (especially Slave4MD) need to realize that the quality of education in osteopathic medical schools is up to par with all of the tier one allopathic schools in the US. It is hands down better than any of the offshore (US MD producing) medical schools. This does not include many of the quality medical schools across the country, but keep in mind that those schools don't produce physicians who have the sole intent of practicing medicine in the US. 😳 ***Withdrawn, foot in mouth***---If you think the standards of admission at Ross are like any of the schools in the US, look for example of the three jackasses who pulled the stunt in the Georgia diner last month. If you'll recall, they were Ross students. 😳 ***/ end of withdrawal, foot still in mouth***My pre-med advisor has visited most of the reputable Caribbean med schools and has told me to be very wary in applying to those schools because they seem to care about making money more than making good physicians.

Just my two cents...

Russell

 

[VijayEM]

Are you kidding me? You tend to pull up the 3 muslim students' story to compare schoools? That is different altogether because that is a "he said, she said" story. What makes you think the lady is telling the truth? Did you watch the 3 students on Larry King Live? Concentrate on other things *******, and not this story which tends to put things out of perspective.

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Are you kidding me? You tend to pull up the 3 muslim students' story to compare schoools? That is different altogether because that is a "he said, she said" story. What makes you think the lady is telling the truth? Did you watch the 3 students on Larry King Live?

Well, I graciously will insert my foot in my mouth. I must explain though that the west coast media did not continue with the story beyond the initial allegations. I remember hearing a report saying that the three admitted to saying something out loud because they were offended by the attention they were receiving in the restaurant. I read the transcripts from the larry king interview and take back what I said about the three students. That being said, I take exception to your calling me a *******. At worst I'm misinformed about one of the things that I said in my post. I stand by everything else that I said.

 

[VijayEM]

Originally posted by WannabeDO
Well, I graciously will insert my foot in my mouth. I must explain though that the west coast media did not continue with the story beyond the initial allegations. I remember hearing a report saying that the three admitted to saying something out loud because they were offended by the attention they were receiving in the restaurant. I read the transcripts from the larry king interview and take back what I said about the three students. That being said, I take exception to your calling me a *******. At worst I'm misinformed about one of the things that I said in my post. I stand by everything else that I said.

My bad man. But as always, I will stand by my reasoning of a medical education.......that the person has a tremendous amount in being a "good" doctor along with the education.

 

[sweetthang]

so, uh..after the first page it just got outta hand...i guess i should rename the thread to "ignorant SDN-ers"....😉

 

[princesamariposa]

Hey guys,
I haven't posted in a while due to severe depression since receiving my MCAT scores-I got a whopping 20P. 8V, 6P,6B.
My stats in a nutshell include working my ass off for 4 years as officers in clubs, volunteering everywhere medical and community related, have 3 years clinical work experience, published scientific article, and 3.5 nonscience gpa, 3.3 science gpa.
Since I received my score, I decided to not send in my secondaries. A 20 just doesn't cut it-I was getting 24's on practice tests... Oh well.
Now, I am looking at St. George university in Grenada. Because I want to be a Doc, whether I have a D.O or M.D. behind my name makes no difference to me. I know MDs that learned omt from doc friends, which I too can do, since that is my attraction to d.o.
any opinions of St. George,preferably from someone who is an alumni??? I am interested in doing international medical work, such as medical missionary work, maybe this will be a good opportunity for me, although I want to practice in the states....

 

[jhug]

princessM-- sorry to hear about the dissapointing scores! i know how hard it is to really dedicate yourself to something and come up short. I'll stand by what i said earlier in this post-- imho, you'll get a better education state-side than in the carribean. Have you thought about taking this winter to study for the april mcat? that puts you at the beginning of the application cycle-- a major advantage!!!
I know two people who didn't do to well in one of the classes, i think at Ross and ended up having to repeat the entire year-- not just the class!!! that was a ton of $$ in tuition/living, not to mention an added stress to life. Another applied to PA school to try and help his chances of getting into a residency. I understand many, many docs do go outside the US and then make it back-- just don't compromise something as important as your medical education for one extra year of trying again. I wish you the best!!!

 

[soopa]

I disagree, SGU offers a very good education. They have a decent standard for admissions as opposed to Ross. You would be placed in some special program for low MCAT scores. At Ross, yes you have to repeat the entire year or something......I am not quite sure. But I have to say St. Georges does offer an education comparable to most US medical schools.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Originally posted by soopa
I disagree, SGU offers a very good education. They have a decent standard for admissions as opposed to Ross. You would be placed in some special program for low MCAT scores. At Ross, yes you have to repeat the entire year or something......I am not quite sure. But I have to say St. Georges does offer an education comparable to most US medical schools.

Having lived in the Caribbean for a while, i can attest to how nice it might be to train down there. Then again, if you study so much you never see the out of doors, well then....

I don't know too much about Caribbean schools. But no matter what you do, think it through long and hard. You've got a little over 6 months to get reay for the next MCAT. Best of luck in whatever you do.

 

[looserdude]

To me, failure is the mother of success. If you are passionate enough, persevered enough, and dedicated enough, why don't you take the MCAT again? Because it's very hard to be a doctor, it's a true measure of your strength, your committment, your readiness, and your love to save people's lives as a doctor. Never give up and good luck!!!

P.S. I am in your shoe before; and after my hard, long struggle I am finally accepted to 5 medical schools this year so far. You do not get an equal education from a foreign medical school...don't even think of going there...

 

[Doctor Peloncito]

Since I received my score, I decided to not send in my secondaries. A 20 just doesn't cut it-I was getting 24's on practice tests... Oh well.

Don't give up! how much did you spend on your primaries? What's the best that can happen if you don't send in your secondaries? You won't get accepted. If you send them, you at least have a chance. If you have stellar ECs as you say you do, then the adcoms will see this. The MCAT is only one part of your application. I say prepare to retake the MCAT and go ahead and apply, it can't hurt.

Good luck,

Russell