foreign studies... US residency... work in Canada?

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cansnowflake

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If I was a Canadian citizen and I did medical school overseas (Ireland) and then did my residency in the US (and possibly worked there for a few years), what would the chances be like to be able to work in Canada?
I understand that it is easier to go to the US for residency than Canada.
Any thoughts?

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cansnowflake said:
If I was a Canadian citizen and I did medical school overseas (Ireland) and then did my residency in the US (and possibly worked there for a few years), what would the chances be like to be able to work in Canada?
I understand that it is easier to go to the US for residency than Canada.
Any thoughts?

Considering the small numbers of IMGs in residency when compared to US, the proposed action plan makes a lot of sense. Assuming one starts med school in 05, it will take 7 - 10 years to be US Board certified.
It is best to do a Specialty that is in short supply by the time you are ready to return to Canada. For example, Ontario increase Family Medicine residency positions by 70%, and it is likely that an over supply will result in ten years. When this happens, Provincial Governments will probably impose restrictions on IMG with this particular specialty.
 
Nucana said:
Considering the small numbers of IMGs in residency when compared to US, the proposed action plan makes a lot of sense. Assuming one starts med school in 05, it will take 7 - 10 years to be US Board certified.
It is best to do a Specialty that is in short supply by the time you are ready to return to Canada. For example, Ontario increase Family Medicine residency positions by 70%, and it is likely that an over supply will result in ten years. When this happens, Provincial Governments will probably impose restrictions on IMG with this particular specialty.

I disagree that "...Ontario increase [sic] Family Medicine residency positions by 70%, and it is likely that an over supply will result in ten years
The Ontario ministry, Ontario medical schools and other medical institutions will be monitoring the supply-demand issue carefully. It is not necessarily true that an increase now of residency positions in FM will result in too many family medicine practitioners later on. It is even possible that these residency position may not be filled.
 
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Nucana said:
Considering the small numbers of IMGs in residency when compared to US, the proposed action plan makes a lot of sense. Assuming one starts med school in 05, it will take 7 - 10 years to be US Board certified.
It is best to do a Specialty that is in short supply by the time you are ready to return to Canada. For example, Ontario increase Family Medicine residency positions by 70%, and it is likely that an over supply will result in ten years. When this happens, Provincial Governments will probably impose restrictions on IMG with this particular specialty.

I don't think we'll be seeing an oversupply of family doctors in Canada anytime soon. There's already a huge shortage of family doctors throughout the country save for places like Toronto and Vancouver. Furthermore, it's not likely to get any better in BC at least. UBC has increased enrollment from 128 positions a couple years ago to a projected 256 positions by 2010 but I heard that UBC will have to produce twice as many doctors just to sustain the current doctor shortage.
 
Nucana said:
Considering the small numbers of IMGs in residency when compared to US, the proposed action plan makes a lot of sense. Assuming one starts med school in 05, it will take 7 - 10 years to be US Board certified.
It is best to do a Specialty that is in short supply by the time you are ready to return to Canada. For example, Ontario increase Family Medicine residency positions by 70%, and it is likely that an over supply will result in ten years. When this happens, Provincial Governments will probably impose restrictions on IMG with this particular specialty.

One thing you may be missing is the fact that a lot of family physicians will be retiring whiles there will be a lot of baby boomers to take care of. With the statistics that I have seen, I do not think that there will be an oversupply however should it happen IMG's of course will be the first to suffer as the number will be cut. One issue that I have been thinking about is that the current OIMG that allows up to 200 positions is funded for a number of years. I think for 4 years to allow 800 IMG's to practice. What happens after that. Maybe the success of the program may justify more funding.
 
Looking at the big picture, there are three broad possibilities: Present severe shortages to continue, satisfactory demand/supply equilibrium or FM over supply.
Will Canadian governments allow present severe FM shortages to continue for the long term? By all available evidence, they are taking aggressive measures to increase supply.
Presumably their target is to have a slight over supply. This is to ensure adequate primary care to pop as well as to reduce bargaining power of GP/FP. There are many factors to consider. However, in Canada the most important is: how determine are Federal and Provincial governments to overcome present severe shortages?
Governments are unable to react quickly to market forces. They will usually over shoot or under provide. Canadian governments are no different. In 1970s and early 1980s they accepted many Doctors from different countries leading to a gross over supply. To solve this problem, they made it harder for IMGs to practise and reduced medical school spots in 1990's. Now they are opening the tap again as well as introducing Health Teams.
I guess only time will tell.
 
I am currently in montreal doing a minor in biochem that will be followed by a biology major so that i can get my Bach. My plan was to study in one of the caribbean medical schools after months searchign, reading and etc...i came accross this....

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/openletter.htm


Hope it helps 🙁
 
Nucana said:
Looking at the big picture, there are three broad possibilities: Present severe shortages to continue, satisfactory demand/supply equilibrium or FM over supply.
Will Canadian governments allow present severe FM shortages to continue for the long term? By all available evidence, they are taking aggressive measures to increase supply.
Presumably their target is to have a slight over supply. This is to ensure adequate primary care to pop as well as to reduce bargaining power of GP/FP. There are many factors to consider. However, in Canada the most important is: how determine are Federal and Provincial governments to overcome present severe shortages?
Governments are unable to react quickly to market forces. They will usually over shoot or under provide. Canadian governments are no different. In 1970s and early 1980s they accepted many Doctors from different countries leading to a gross over supply. To solve this problem, they made it harder for IMGs to practise and reduced medical school spots in 1990's. Now they are opening the tap again as well as introducing Health Teams.
I guess only time will tell.


YES BUT...the government has to battle Doctor Colleges who have the monoopoly over medical care and they dont want to give it to foreigners (or Canadians who graduated abroad). read my previous post...there are 12 000 FMGs in Canada without Residency or jobs in medicine...In the pathology lab where i volunteer there are two doctors who came form Egypt 5 years ago and are working in the lab (theyre anesthesiologists)...
I think the governments will be forced to increase the supply, but it doesnt mean they will do so by letting foreigners in...
 
DrArepa said:
YES BUT...the government has to battle Doctor Colleges who have the monoopoly over medical care and they dont want to give it to foreigners (or Canadians who graduated abroad). read my previous post...there are 12 000 FMGs in Canada without Residency or jobs in medicine...In the pathology lab where i volunteer there are two doctors who came form Egypt 5 years ago and are working in the lab (theyre anesthesiologists)...
I think the governments will be forced to increase the supply, but it doesnt mean they will do so by letting foreigners in...

The '"government" does not do battle with "Doctor Colleges", whatever those are.

The provincial ministries of health have jurisdiction over the delivery of health care; these ministries cooperate with Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons in admitting physicians to medical practice in Canada. Doctors who have trained outside Canada/US should show they are qualified and competent to practice medicine. Just because someone says he is a doctor does not mean he is:

A recent immigrant to Canada was working at the local convenience store as a clerk. He would tell customers he is a doctor and he trained in nuclear medicine in his previous country and really wanted to work in Canada as a doctor.

He said he had already sent his CV to some "higher officials in the government" who he hoped could find him a job. His previous country had taught him that contacting officials in government could find him the job he wanted. He was waiting for their reply, but was frustrated at their lack of response. He said maybe he should be writing to officials who were even higher up, because he still did not know how much the "fee" would be to take the job.

When asked if he had submitted his qualifications for assessment to the licensing body, he said, No, not yet, because he was not aware of how to do so, and besides he was still waiting for "higher officials" to contact him. He was provided with contacts in the RCPSC and the College of Physicians and Surgeons in the province, that is, the organization that does assessments of foreign medical training, and the organization that issues medical licenses. He was asked for his CV. Upon review of his activities, it was noted that he was trained in ultrasound technology. Subsequently, he was then given the contacts for an organization that reviews credentials of internationally trained health care workers. He is now working in a clinic and using the skills he learned previously.

But he isn't a doctor trained in nuclear medicine.

Canadians who graduated abroad are selected for residencies in Canada.
 
NewCanadian said:
The '"government" does not do battle with "Doctor Colleges", whatever those are.

The provincial ministries of health have jurisdiction over the delivery of health care; these ministries cooperate with Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons in admitting physicians to medical practice in Canada. Doctors who have trained outside Canada/US should show they are qualified and competent to practice medicine. Just because someone says he is a doctor does not mean he is:

A recent immigrant to Canada was working at the local convenience store as a clerk. He would tell customers he is a doctor and he trained in nuclear medicine in his previous country and really wanted to work in Canada as a doctor.

He said he had already sent his CV to some "higher officials in the government" who he hoped could find him a job. His previous country had taught him that contacting officials in government could find him the job he wanted. He was waiting for their reply, but was frustrated at their lack of response. He said maybe he should be writing to officials who were even higher up, because he still did not know how much the "fee" would be to take the job.

When asked if he had submitted his qualifications for assessment to the licensing body, he said, No, not yet, because he was not aware of how to do so, and besides he was still waiting for "higher officials" to contact him. He was provided with contacts in the RCPSC and the College of Physicians and Surgeons in the province, that is, the organization that does assessments of foreign medical training, and the organization that issues medical licenses. He was asked for his CV. Upon review of his activities, it was noted that he was trained in ultrasound technology. Subsequently, he was then given the contacts for an organization that reviews credentials of internationally trained health care workers. He is now working in a clinic and using the skills he learned previously.

But he isn't a doctor trained in nuclear medicine.

Canadians who graduated abroad are selected for residencies in Canada.

These things may happen but that does not preclude the fact that IMG's find it hard to practice. Of course any IMG must be prepred to prove that that person is a doctor and I know that there are many who can do that with years of experience in practice but still cannot get in. The worry is not people who come in and claim to be doctors but are not such as your example (Their credentials can be easily verified). The worry is people who are genuinly trained as doctors and who have all the qualifications to prove it and probably have passed all the Canadian boards but still cannot get in to practice and there are 1000's of these people in Canada.
 
None of what I wrote discounted the difficulties IMGs have integrating into medicine in Canada, nor did I write that the person was deliberately misrepresenting himself. This man had nothing to prove and everything to gain by talking to us about his previous livelihood.

Here's more of the story.

While he was working long hours at the store, he was also taking language classes in French and English.

Now, some time later, we realize there were a number of cultural and communication issues.

One was a cultural divide. Now that his English and French are competent, we now know that his efforts to contact 'higher officials' were based on what he had learned to do in his previous country. It goes without saying he had no experience in a multicultural city in Canada nor with mayors, city officials or municipal government in general.

Another was a translation misunderstanding. When he first moved to our neighbourhood, his mother tongue was poorly understood by us, and it was we who had jumped to conclusions. His use of the word 'doctor' was an attempt to make us understand that he was a kind person, that he likes to help people, and he was not a "labourer". He used 'nuclear medicine' because he thought that was the right terminology to use.

The story also illustrates that doctors are not the only kind of internationally trained professional having difficulty with integration. It is extremely important that we not jump to conclusions about their professional training. If we suspend judgement, drop assumptions, and listen better, we can help send them in a direction that is successful for them. We have to help all internationally trained health care workers.

He attended a half dozen or so interviews before he was offered a contract for employment. And how proud he is that he got a job he likes. 😎

We don't care that his mother-tongue-community still calls him 'doctor'.
 
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