Forensic path question

[medx2b]

Not to distract from the political banter by any means but does anyone have any experience in forensic pathology? I'm going into third year and of course need to figure out where I'm applying for residencies. I have a background in forensics already. Its a damn shame but my school does not give us the autonomy to do rotations outside of its little safety net or with MD programs so I would hopefully like to find a DO pathologist to rotate with. Thanks for any information. 🙄

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[yaah]

I moved your post to a new thread, as it had nothing to do with the thread you posted it in.

 

[Autopsy101]

I love all things forensic🙂. I am working as a surgical pathologist in a community hospital with a small residency program and run the autopsy service here. I am doing that for family reasons. I went into pathology with the goal to be a forensic pathologist and was accepted by several big name fellowships. I have done about 4 months of forensic pathology rotations with different coronor and medical examiner's offices. What questions do you have?

 

[Dral]

I have a question that I've always wondered about. How much time does a forensic pathologist spend in the courtroom, if at all?

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I have a question that I've always wondered about. How much time does a forensic pathologist spend in the courtroom, if at all?

When I rotated through the Maryland Office of the Chief Medical Examiner I got a sense that the medical examiners spent on average 2-3 days a month in court actually giving testimony. What they seemed to do more frequently (and what seemed to annoy them immensely more) was spend significant time with prosecutors preparing for trial.

 

[Autopsy101]

I would say it depends on the region where you choose to practice. It probably varies from state to state with the number of homicide cases that you are involved with. The laws here allow your autopsy report to stand as part of the record in all legal proceedings. Sometimes depositions can take the place of courtroom testimony depending on the specifics of the case.

Courtroom testimony usually occurs at the request of the prosecuting attorney in most murder cases to emphasize to the jury using photos to document what the victim suffered and any physical evidence relating to the body (pattern injuries, DNA collected from the body for identification purposes or implicating the defendant). This also allows the defendant's attorney ample opportunity to try to discredit you by attacking your training, credibility, chain of custody, and ethics (the not so fun part of forensics). If the cause and manner of death are contested, then the defendants usually bring in their own expert witnesses to discuss their interpretation of the findings.

I rotated in two different offices, and the pathologists averaged between one and three days per month in the courtroom and 1-3 depositions a month with attorneys in their offices in cases where courtroom testimony was not required. I would imagine that it would be more in larger, urban areas.

 

[HbyHA]

I rotated in two different offices, and the pathologists averaged between one and three days per month in the courtroom and 1-3 depositions a month with attorneys in their offices in cases where courtroom testimony was not required. I would imagine that it would be more in larger, urban areas.

i've been to three different offices so far, and that probably sounds about right. here's counting down to July 1st, 2010....😀

 

[medx2b]

Ok so since you guys have experience I am a DO student....are you DO or MD, have you found it makes a difference in applying to residencies? Some take the COMPLEX and some require the USMLE.... I'm not sure what the pathologists viewpoints are on these. Do you like your programs? Have you heard anything about the programs out there? Good and bad.... any suggestions I'm all ears. Google searches and such don't come up with much on forensic programs. Thanks. 😳)

 

[jason3278]

First year DO student here. I also have an interest in forensic pathology.

I'm a little worried about the job market. I'd like to stay in MI (for now anyway), but in the county I shadowed in there was the Chief ME and the Deputy ME (both were forensic pathologists). Is that it? Just 2 forensic pathologists for the county? (This was Kent County - which is probably the 2nd largest metro area in Michigan). Where else might a forensic pathologists work besides the medical examiners office?

 

[HbyHA]

Ok so since you guys have experience I am a DO student....are you DO or MD, have you found it makes a difference in applying to residencies? Some take the COMPLEX and some require the USMLE.... I'm not sure what the pathologists viewpoints are on these. Do you like your programs? Have you heard anything about the programs out there? Good and bad.... any suggestions I'm all ears. Google searches and such don't come up with much on forensic programs. Thanks. 😳)

I am an MD. Do you mean does the degree (DO vs MD) make a difference when applying to residencies? and when you are asking about programs, do you mean residency or fellowship? i am still a resident, but i secured a fellowship this winter at my top choice fellowship program. i don't know how much the residency i'm at made a difference when applying. i guess it could of. i don't know how other fellowship programs pick their fellows, but NYC has you do an "audition" rotation for a month there which you MUST do if you are applying. your performance during that month is likely a big factor. how much does the program you are coming from factor in? not sure. if you were coming from a top program but performed poorly during the month i'm sure you wouldn't be chosen. but an outstanding resident from a lesser ranked program would still be given i shot, i think.

good fellowship programs i hear about: NYC, MD, Miami, maybe CA programs?

but you should focus on doing well in med school and getting a decent residency spot THEN worry about your fellowship. i know its hard to focus on the present and not worry so much about the future... but take it one step at a time! you'll get there. eventually *sigh*

 

[Autopsy101]

I have the M.D. degree. At our program, we have had an equal number of M.D. and D.O. degrees among residents. I have worked with M.D. and D.O. attendings at our program. I don't think that it makes much difference, however, I am from a smaller, community program. I am not sure if there is a difference at the more high power, academic programs.

Forensics is not a very competitive field to find a fellowship if you are willing to move and know that some of the top programs fill their spots 2-3 years in advance because most people who choose forensics are sure of their choice when they enter residency and apply early. I don't think there is too much weight put on what residency program you are coming from. I was accepted at 2 relatively competitive programs, and I don't come from a well known program. Although, honestly, not as competitive as NYC from the sounds of things.

It probably helps to have had a rotation in forensics before you interview so you can speak intelligently about the field. However, some residency programs do not have that rotation until 3rd or 4th year in their curriculum. When you are interviewing for path, I would ask if they can be flexible and allow you to do that rotation earlier before you would need to interview.

I would check out the name website, and google search the programs you might be interested in. There are also e-mail contacts here. http://thename.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=66&Itemid=76