forensic pathology

[jgl1980]

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I was just wondering if any one could tell me how competative a Forensic Pathology residency is to get into. I was trying to find some info but I just am not sure where or how to look. You help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[xanthines]

It's my understanding that Fp isn't too hard, but then again it's not really all it's cracked up to be (ie not CSI!). I'd make sure to actually do a rotation or a summer project in FP before deciding.

-X

I was just wondering if any one could tell me how competative a Forensic Pathology residency is to get into. I was trying to find some info but I just am not sure where or how to look. You help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[yaah]

I was just wondering if any one could tell me how competative a Forensic Pathology residency is to get into. I was trying to find some info but I just am not sure where or how to look. You help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

For reference, there is no such thing as a forensic pathology residency. You have to do a pathology residency (either AP only or AP/CP combined). Then you apply for forensic fellowships which are not terribly competitive, but the best ones can be somewhat.

 

[LADoc00]

I was just wondering if any one could tell me how competative a Forensic Pathology residency is to get into. I was trying to find some info but I just am not sure where or how to look. You help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Asking if there is competition to get a Forensics fellowship is like asking if there competition to get a tour of duty with the Army in Iraq....sure there is in its own demented way.

 

[rirriri]

like everyone else said, i think Forensics appeals to a very small crowd of people who enjoy that type of scientific detective work. I've personally met with two forensic pathologists who quit their jobs early (because they couldn't handle the lifestyle and work content)...those two actually went on to become involved more as a court consultant for cases.

summary: not that competitive, unless you want top notch.

cheers!

 

[mlw03]

could anyone elaborate a bit more as to why forensic path is relatively uncompetitive? it's one of the areas i find most fascinating, and thought other path-minded people would think similarly. it seems like you'd need to know a wide range of pathology to do the job well, along with knowledge about the "physiology" of death and the pathology of a whole array of injuries. also, it seems like the lifestyle would be pretty decent, you can live anywhere you want (every town/county/rural area needs someone to perform autopsies), and from what i know the salary is pretty healthy. plus, i gotta think the malpractice is low and that you'd eventually start to have opportunities for side work as a private forensic pathology consultant.

anyway, i'm just suprised to read forensic path fellowships aren't too competitive and was curious why not.

 

[Circumflex]

There are many reasons for forensic pathology fellowship positions being relatively non-competitive

(I am a 4th year student applying for pathology residency and currently on a forensic pathology elective)

Here are some of the things I hear:
1. In general, the salary for forensic pathology is lower than other subspecialties

2. I hear A LOT of complaining about crazy politics and pressure from inside and outside of the office regarding some decisions made - you are a government employee, and you have to answer to the chief ME (unless you are the chief, then you answer to other government officials)

3. Forensic pathology is SO different from other anatomic pathology subspecialties (surgical) - many pathologists do not enjoy performing autopsies, which are a very small portion of a surgical pathologist's practice.

4. Although you can practice anywhere, finding jobs in desirable places to live can be tough. You have to be willing to work in an undesirable place for a while, and network your way into a more desirable place (for you). However, this is not always the case.

I'm sure there are more, but these are commonly discussed reasons.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I hate posts (even the kind done at the ME's).

 

[yaah]

You have to really love forensics to do it as a fellowship. And a lot of people don't love it. I think that's the main reason. And, as said, you do have to deal with a lot of bull****, and you are probably on call more than any other type of pathologist.

 

[LADoc00]

Forensics is totally FUBAR at the moment. I just want to rant: You do NOT need to do a pathology residency to do forensics. They have almost no connection to each other. The entire mindset in a forensic autopsy is different than a medical one. I would liken it to learning the wrong way to golf as a kid, developing bad habits and having a very hard time changing as an adult. Doing an AP residency creates bad habits for forensics causing you to almost permenantly overanalyze useless details for a forensic setting.

It needs to be its own residency, it needs to disestablish from pathology and it needs to focus more on advancing toxicology (more CP than AP anyway) and molecular sciences than the autopsy ANYWAY!!!

I would structure a residency program like
Year I: Forensic autopsy, basic criminology, basic medico-legal
Year II: Basic toxicology, advanced medico-legal, advanced ciminology
Year III: Molecular analysis, guided practicum for 9 months

In such a scheme you could do a 2 month session at the FBI in Quantico, even do a foreign stint like with the Scotland Yard. Even take some MBA classes to improve admin credentials.

VASTLY more relevant.

 

[yaah]

I agree with that - and the odd thing is that you can do forensics with AP only, which I always thought was a bit messed up since an understanding of a lot of CP is so important. Of course, you can learn all that on your own or in fellowship anyway. The other thing is that most people who want to do forensics know they want to do it before starting residency anyway, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Many residency programs also don't have great exposure to forensics - one probably learns most everything in fellowship. Now, the info you gain from AP path residency as regards microscopy, histologic dx, etc, is very important but is it really that necessary? Some forensic paths barely even look at the slides, and subtle changes generally (generally) aren't too significant.

In our program, for example, all of our autopsy is done first year. Then after that all AP is surg path and cyto. Basically irrelevant to forensics.

 

[kittykat]

Hey, I like your curriculum. If we could only get rid of the "this is how it's always been done" mentality we may actually get somewhere in this field. Because quite frankly when your 9-10 year medical education, payscale, and "expert status" is reduced to the same level as someone with a Masters degree from John Jay's College of Forensics something is wrong.

 

[Mindy]

Well, forensic pathology is not for everyone.

First, you have to like autopsies.

Second, you have to like politics.

Third, life is indeed different than the "comfort" of the hospital--morgues, courts, death scenes, bugs, bullets (on and on...)

That being said, while I am certain that pathology is the coolest of all medical specialties, to me, forensics is the sweet frosting of pathology.

Every death is a medical mystery. You need to study medicine to understand why someone died. And if you do not understand why someone died--whether natural or unnatural--you should not bother stepping foot into the morgue.

Mindy

 

[surrender903]

i totally agree. im getting my masters in Forensics right now, and the amount of true pathology that i see compared to detective work, GSW, BFT's etc. is different.

 

[1Path]

Nothing to add, just hoping for more comments/updates! Bump!