Forensic programs

[bonedrone14]

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Hey everyone. Current Pgy4 applying (late?) to forensics. I'm looking at the list of places on the aapl website and reading their blurbs...it's hard to tell what's what and who I should really be focusing on.

As for my selection criteria, I'm avoiding places that are hot and humid. My career goals are to be a well rounded psychiatrist and feel comfortable with most things that might walk through my door as someone who does private forensics work a day or so a week-my other interests are inpatient/consultative work. In residency I was heavily exposed to criminal forensic work but dont know much beyond that. I'm told civil is a whole new world in addition. So I guess I'm saying I'd ideally like a breath of exposure since I don't know what I don't know. Maybe all programs expose you fairly equally... again, I don't know.

My list at present is looking like

-University of Arizona ("its it's a dry heat ")
-University of Arkansas
-University of Cincinnati (I've read a lot about this place from a poster here which is why I'm looking at it)
-Case western (from what I hear the forensic God is here)
-(t) Ohio state university
-University of Virginia (I love the location)
-University of North Carolina
-University of Michigan
-Medical college of Wisconsin

Anyone know much about the positives/negatives of these? Thanks for any perspective you can share.

 

[Fabio001]

Case Western and UC Davis have excellent reputations. Though I think Case Western had lost some of its appeal as I believe Reznick (God) is no longer the program director. I was looking into this at one time and remember Brown and Rochester both having unique aspects, which might be worth your consideration. Also look into Emory.

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[EatSleepForensics]

I don't know much detail about many of the programs you list, BUT an aspect of forensic training that I consider really important is that programs certainly don't equally expose fellows to various types of forensic work. Numerous factors influence this variability, including where the funding comes from (e.g. from the state), the degree of integration between the program and the affiliated university, and the practices and strengths of the program faculty. As a result, some programs are much heavier on the criminal forensics side, corrections, etc.

Another important practical impact of these differences is how much the fellows are expected to provide treatment in these various settings, as opposed to performing forensic evaluations and learning how to write effective reports (a critical skill). I would suggest trying to learn as much as possible about these dimensions of the various programs you're considering, so that you can try to land in a place that is more likely to deliver training on the type of work you think you might want to do in your forensic career. The most common limitation of forensic fellowships is a lack of civil forensic evaluation exposure, which I think is a serious issue given that civil work is a huge part of the profession.

I'm not sure about the extent of the impact of Dr. Resnick's retirement on Case's program - he is an amazing teacher and gets incredible cases for the fellows to work on. However, I do know that there are many excellent faculty members there still, many of whom are forensic psychiatrists trained by Resnick who have contributed to the development of a nice infrastructure there to provide broad exposure.

 

[bonedrone14]

Thank you both for your thoughts.

I'll look at the program websites for the 3 you recommended above. I think Emory may be a hard sell to my wife due to the weather down there haha.

And I guess what I'm taking from this is that the programs where fellows spend more of their time doing evaluations may prepare you for practice better, which I can imagine. In residency ive done a bit of prison work and the actual work itself isn't that far different from other settings.

Thank you for your advice!

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

What do people think of Tulane's program compared to Cincinnati's program?

 

[whopper]

Tulane and Cincinnati were my #1 choices but this was over 10 years ago. Things have changed, so I don't think I can comment in an effective manner.

Phil Resnick may have left Case Western but Steve Noffsinger is still one of the best program directors in the country. This is no offense to Noffsinger. Resnick was a rock star in forensic psychiatry, and he was style plus substance. Noffsinger doesn't have as much charisma appeal but he is still a legendary forensic psychiatrist worthy of tremendous praise and likely better than almost every single program director out there in forensic psychiatry. He also was pretty much running the fellowship anyway before Resnick retired.

Cincinnati's PD was Doug Mossman, one of the best in the field, but he died a few years ago. It was sad. All of the recent graduates of the program were invited to his home literally just a few days before his death and we all hung out to pay the guy tribute. The program still has a lot to offer including a great location, the forensic facility is one of the best in the country, their forensic psychologist Scott Bresler is one of the best in the country, and Chris Marrett took over as program director.

 

[bonedrone14]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience. Looking at their website, cincinnati seems like a great place still that has definitely piqued my interest.

 

[ArdorAyurveda]

Yes, thank you for answering. Would you happen to have any information on forensic programs that focus on patients suffering from antisocial personality disorder?

 

[Stagg737]

Yes, thank you for answering. Would you happen to have any information on forensic programs that focus on patients suffering from antisocial personality disorder?

I'm no expert, but I'd guess all of them...

 

[FatherPsychiatry]

... Steve Noffsinger is still one of the best program directors in the country. This is no offense to Noffsinger.

Out of curiosity, I googled "Steve Noffsinger". Had a humorous time with the results. Here's the real deal

 

[whopper]

A criticism I have not of Noffsinger but his situation is here's one of the nation's top forensic psychiatrists, but standing next to Resnick it's as if a blinding light prevents people from giving him due praise. Like I said, Noffsinger's been doing this for decades and ran Resnick's program for years. It's not like all of a sudden that program's going to dramatically change for the worse.

A little joke I used to tell the fellows when I was an attending, Resnick was the Captain Kirk of the field, my own PD Mossman was Spock and Noffsinger was Picard.

 

[psyguru]

Hey everyone. Current Pgy4 applying (late?) to forensics. I'm looking at the list of places on the aapl website and reading their blurbs...it's hard to tell what's what and who I should really be focusing on.

As for my selection criteria, I'm avoiding places that are hot and humid. My career goals are to be a well rounded psychiatrist and feel comfortable with most things that might walk through my door as someone who does private forensics work a day or so a week-my other interests are inpatient/consultative work. In residency I was heavily exposed to criminal forensic work but dont know much beyond that. I'm told civil is a whole new world in addition. So I guess I'm saying I'd ideally like a breath of exposure since I don't know what I don't know. Maybe all programs expose you fairly equally... again, I don't know.

My list at present is looking like

-University of Arizona ("its it's a dry heat ")
-University of Arkansas
-University of Cincinnati (I've read a lot about this place from a poster here which is why I'm looking at it)
-Case western (from what I hear the forensic God is here)
-(t) Ohio state university
-University of Virginia (I love the location)
-University of North Carolina
-University of Michigan
-Medical college of Wisconsin

Anyone know much about the positives/negatives of these? Thanks for any perspective you can share.

One thing to look for in a forensic program is exposure to real cases...not just writing shadow reports. The program where I went may not have been a top program but I felt I prepared me well. My attending was from Case Western so I got the exposure without the....pm me for more.