forensic psychiatry: demand, hours, & pay

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

hongyin1

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
1) How competitive is it? And do you think there may be much choice regarding location?
2) Given all the court appearances and such, are the hours demanding?
3) How is the pay?

oh yea, and if anyone has any websites they'd suggest, i'd be very happy!🙂

Members don't see this ad.
 
1) How competitive is it? And do you think there may be much choice regarding location?

Can you be more specific? Do you mean competitive in terms of how hard it is to get into fellowship?

2) Given all the court appearances and such, are the hours demanding?

Depends on what you make out of it. Some FPs are expert witness only. If that's the case, they have hours that they determine on a case to case basis. They have the freedom to take & not take certain cases.

FPs working for a forensic institution usually have a set number of hours similar to that of a clinical psychiatrist. In fact they are clinical psychiatrists but working on forensic psychiatric patients.

3) How is the pay?

Well this too needs clarity because there's several ways to answer it. A psychiatrist working on a forensic psyche unit from what I understand makes more than the typicial clnical psychiatrist. The expert witness forensic psychiatrists makes money depending on the case. Some expert witnesses are higher up than others & may make more, and may choose more breaks & vacations because they often work on a case to case basis or they may choose to work extremely hard.
 
thanks for the response whopper! Yea, by competitive, I mean in terms of getting the psychiatry residency as well as the forensic psychiatry fellowship down the road. Last time I read, the residencies were generally not that competitive versus other specialties. I get the impression, at least at my medical school that not that many students are interested. For one, a lot of students treat psychiatry like a pseudoscience (understandable since there's still a lot to learn and the pathways are not as straightforward as other specialties may be...i.e. how exactly do you link neuroanatomy and neurotransmitters to a traumatic memory?). Also, many classmates are looking for much more lucrative areas.

I guess, it would be nice to specialize in an area with a decent amount of demand so you can have some choice in terms of where you can live in the future versus waiting for the next single opening and moving to wherever a job happens to be. Would there be adequate demand in this field to allow some freedom in determining where you want to live? Again, potentially getting married, if I wasn't, then it wouldn't be an issue at all.

Thanks so much for the clarification though! I didn't know that you could decide to be an expert witness and operate case by case. Somehow I was under the impression that you generally work for the government and the hours are chosen for you. But the possibility of having some more say in how many hours you put in definitely makes me favor this more.

You know, as pre-med students it reminds me of how we all had our grand plans and ambitions. Which many of us still do. But as things get more realistic with starting a family, it's harder than I thought balancing a family and career. You may still have a lot of passion for it...it's just more difficult when you add the thought of raising a family on top of that.
 
thanks for the response whopper! Yea, by competitive, I mean in terms of getting the psychiatry residency as well as the forensic psychiatry fellowship down the road. Last time I read, the residencies were generally not that competitive versus other specialties.

Forensic Psychiatry is the most competitive fellowship in psychiatry. That being said, it is still easier to get into this fellowship than fellowships in other medical fields such as IM or surgery.
Its easier to get into a psychiatry fellowship in general vs the other fields because there's less psychiatrists.

To give you a ballpark demographic, you need to be a "decent" psychiatry resident to get into a forensic fellowship. To get into most of the IM fellowships, you often have to be the top resident.

For one, a lot of students treat psychiatry like a pseudoscience (understandable since there's still a lot to learn and the pathways are not as straightforward as other specialties .

This is of course more that has to be researched in psychiatry but to call it a pseudoscience is as valid as calling diabetes treatment 50 years ago a pseudoscience. There's still much we cannot quantify because this is dealing with the most incredibly complex organ in the human body. Our treatment approaches have as much validity as do several cancer treatments--let's see if they also call those pseudosciences.

how exactly do you link neuroanatomy and neurotransmitters to a traumatic memory?).

Charles Nemeroff, M.D., Ph.D. has researched PTSD to the point where it may surprise you. Problem is his data & knowledge are so cutting edge that they are not yet clinically applicable. The point though is that thanks to giants like Nemeroff, psychiatry will get to the point where we understand it to the degree that we understand other fields of medicine.


I guess, it would be nice to specialize in an area with a decent amount of demand so you can have some choice in terms of where you can live in the future versus waiting for the next single opening and moving to wherever a job happens to be.

You need to be careful with this. The more you specialize, the less you may be in demand. Take for example a brain surgeon. A brain surgeon can't practice anywhere. He/she can only practice where a brain surgeon is needed--and that's not everywhere. Becoming more speclialized will probably get you more money but may actually close doors in terms of where you can choose to work.

Would there be adequate demand in this field to allow some freedom in determining where you want to live?
Depends on how specific. ITs not like you'll be able to plant your flag in a small town with little going on & expect forensic cases to come to you.

If you want to do clinical forensic psychiatry--you will have to work at a forensic psychiatric unit. They are not as plentiful vs regular adult clinical psychiatric units. If you want to work as court expert, you'll probably have to make yourself available near metropolitan areas & state capitals, though if you're good enough & your rep spread around enough, you can be asked to testify in any court in the area.
 
Top