Forensic Psychology Undergrad useless?

[JuliaMae]

I'm currently a sophomore in college, and I'm trying to figure out what the proper education path for me would be. My eventual goal would be to have my own private practice working with people who have mood disorders/personality disorders/etc...What I would assume to be a typical private practice. I'd also like to be able to contract myself out to lawyers and courts on the forensic side of things (child custody cases, competency evaluations, etc..)

My idea was to get my undergraduate degree in forensic psychology. The school I'm going to places a heavy emphasis on internships, so I would be getting a good basis. After that I was going to move on into a Ph.D program in behavior analysis or a Psy.D program in Clinical Neuropsychology.

Is this schooling path going to get me to my eventual goal? I'm worried that a undergraduate degree won’t be enough, even with the added doctorate work. I am also slightly worried that an undergraduate degree in forensics would reflect poorly in applying for clinical graduate programs.

Thank you in advance.

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[WisNeuro]

I'm currently a sophomore in college, and I'm trying to figure out what the proper education path for me would be. My eventual goal would be to have my own private practice working with people who have mood disorders/personality disorders/etc...What I would assume to be a typical private practice. I'd also like to be able to contract myself out to lawyers and courts on the forensic side of things (child custody cases, competency evaluations, etc..)

My idea was to get my undergraduate degree in forensic psychology. The school I'm going to places a heavy emphasis on internships, so I would be getting a good basis. After that I was going to move on into a Ph.D program in behavior analysis or a Psy.D program in Clinical Neuropsychology.

Is this schooling path going to get me to my eventual goal? I'm worried that a undergraduate degree won’t be enough, even with the added doctorate work. I am also slightly worried that an undergraduate degree in forensics would reflect poorly in applying for clinical graduate programs.

Thank you in advance.

You say that you want to primarily work in private practice with mood and personality disorders, if so, I don't see why you would think about getting a Psy.D in Clinical Neuropsych. Or even a Ph.D in BA. I would think that any old scientist-practitioner school would serve you just fine. As for the forensics, there are many people that work in a forensic setting with little to no grad school training in such.

 

[erg923]

I assume your bachelors would be in "psychology", as you cant really specialize like that in undergrad. I also agree that a person with a doctorate in BA does exactly that, behavioral analysis. Thats not psychotherapy, which seems to be what you are interested in.

I have no idea why people would actually want to do child custody work unless you love high-levels of stress and interacting with sleazy lawyers, but suffice to say that specializing in neuropsychology is not necessary for this. Generally speaking, the doctorate in clinical psych would be though.

To be competitve for a doctorate you will need sufficient research experience, so I would focus on that fore now and let the rest come in to focus later. You won't be doing any of the stuff you are talking about in this post for another decade almost.

 

[cara susanna]

Honestly, I know people with Master's in forensic psych who have trouble getting jobs in their field.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Specialization within the field of psychology is really done at the doctoral and post-doctoral levels. I've found that 99.9% of degrees that list specialization/designation are more marketing fluff than anything else. A neuropsychologist (or forensic psychologist) is FIRST a psychologist (which requires doctoral training) and THEN a specialist. Specialization has been pushed into earlier graduate training now, which I believe is a detriment to the student and field. None of those areas can be effectively practiced w/o a solid foundation in generalist practice areas: research, stats, theory, applied interventions, etc.

 

[mcvcm92]

Honestly, I know people with Master's in forensic psych who have trouble getting jobs in their field.

I just wanted to second this.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Specialization within the field of psychology is really done at the doctoral and post-doctoral levels. I've found that 99.9% of degrees that list specialization/designation are more marketing fluff than anything else. A neuropsychologist (or forensic psychologist) is FIRST a psychologist (which requires doctoral training) and THEN a specialist. Specialization has been pushed into earlier graduate training now, which I believe is a detriment to the student and field. None of those areas can be effectively practiced w/o a solid foundation in generalist practice areas: research, stats, theory, applied interventions, etc.

Although I'm early into the game, I do believe this is the case. I don't see a need to specialize so early, before the student even obtains their doctorate. I wonder why this is the case? To draw students in maybe?

 

[LPPSYD]

I'm currently a sophomore in college, and I'm trying to figure out what the proper education path for me would be. My eventual goal would be to have my own private practice working with people who have mood disorders/personality disorders/etc...What I would assume to be a typical private practice. I'd also like to be able to contract myself out to lawyers and courts on the forensic side of things (child custody cases, competency evaluations, etc..)

My idea was to get my undergraduate degree in forensic psychology. The school I'm going to places a heavy emphasis on internships, so I would be getting a good basis. After that I was going to move on into a Ph.D program in behavior analysis or a Psy.D program in Clinical Neuropsychology.

Is this schooling path going to get me to my eventual goal? I'm worried that a undergraduate degree won’t be enough, even with the added doctorate work. I am also slightly worried that an undergraduate degree in forensics would reflect poorly in applying for clinical graduate programs.

Thank you in advance.

There are schools that have a B.A. in Forensic Psychology. I know this because that's what my M.A. is in and the school I went to also offers it at the BA level. The only benefit to choosing this as your major would be that it will probably give you a good idea early whether you even like this subject matter. Many of your classes will (hopefully) have a heavy emphasis on the legal system, and I think a lot of students underestimate that and think it's all serial killers and blood splatter (thanks CSI). It's important to realize though that you can get this at any school, and the degree itself will probably just have those specific courses mapped out in a more organized way than if you sought them out yourself. The fact that your school offers that specific major at all means that they probably offer more of those types of courses than a typical university would. I can say that my M.A. hasn't been all that helpful, other than to have given me some specialized knowledge which has helped guide my educational and future career choices. So I can't imagine the B.A. would do much. I doubt it will reflect poorly either, but over the years I have been asked in interviews whether I actually want to do clinical work or am exclusively interested in forensic.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Although I'm early into the game, I do believe this is the case. I don't see a need to specialize so early, before the student even obtains their doctorate. I wonder why this is the case? To draw students in maybe?

I don't feel it's inherently bad or counter-productive for some degree of specialized learning to occur while earning the doctorate, but at the very least it needs to occur concurrently with training in general principles of clinical psychology...with a gradually-shifting balance that initially places more emphasis on the latter (i.e., general principles) before shifting to the former (i.e., specialist principles). Greater emphasis on specialized training while on internship, particularly if not much has been had in grad school, is fine, so long as the person has addressed/is addressing any other areas that need to be shored up prior to earning their degree.

And yes, even for folks (like me) who gain a good bit of specialized knowledge in grad school, there's still a large chunk of knowledge that's gained on fellowship...which in my opinion would be very, very difficult to make it through in just one or two years if you had little/no experience in the area of specialty on which to build.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I don't feel it's inherently bad or counter-productive for some degree of specialized learning to occur while earning the doctorate, but at the very least it needs to occur concurrently with training in general principles of clinical psychology...with a gradually-shifting balance that initially places more emphasis on the latter (i.e., general principles) before shifting to the former (i.e., specialist principles). Greater emphasis on specialized training while on internship, particularly if not much has been had in grad school, is fine, so long as the person has addressed/is addressing any other areas that need to be shored up prior to earning their degree.

And yes, even for folks (like me) who gain a good bit of specialized knowledge in grad school, there's still a large chunk of knowledge that's gained on fellowship...which in my opinion would be very, very difficult to make it through in just one or two years if you had little/no experience in the area of specialty on which to build.

Well said.👍

 

[PsychevalIII]

I assume your bachelors would be in "psychology", as you cant really specialize like that in undergrad. I also agree that a person with a doctorate in BA does exactly that, behavioral analysis. Thats not psychotherapy, which seems to be what you are interested in.

I have no idea why people would actually want to do child custody work unless you love high-levels of stress and interacting with sleazy lawyers, but suffice to say that specializing in neuropsychology is not necessary for this. Generally speaking, the doctorate in clinical psych would be though.

To be competitve for a doctorate you will need sufficient research experience, so I would focus on that fore now and let the rest come in to focus later. You won't be doing any of the stuff you are talking about in this post for another decade almost.

Child custody evaluations can be lucrative. In my area the evaluations go for $5,000 to $7,000 each (no insurance). If you conducted 4 evaluations a week your making between 900 k and 1.3 million a year. I recently turned a referral away for $7,000. It would have been about a day and a half of work.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Child custody evaluations can be lucrative. In my area the evaluations go for $5,000 to $7,000 each (no insurance). If you conducted 4 evaluations a week your making between 900 k and 1.3 million a year. I recently turned a referral away for $7,000. It would have been about a day and a half of work.

Just call Saul.

Geez, my friend, turned down a $7000 referral - good for you!

To the OP - Go for the PhD/PsyD in Clinical Psych and specialize in assessment (infact be a graduate T.A. in assm't & have your dissertation focus on some aspect of it). Forensic psychology is very interesting and CSI is fascinating, but unless you're dialed in w/ JJay's program or hyper-tuned to the field, you will not be able to be achieve a clinical assessment background as a clinician w/ just a forensic psych degree (MA/MS/PhD) unless it is combined clinical. I can't think of any other ways per licensure - please enlightenment someone if you can.

If you want to practice w/ mood disorders and work w/ sleazy lawyers on the side (just don't be sleazy yourself, be ethically-aware), then make sure you have good cognitive/personality testing experience so you can bill out per assessment case. Quick & Easy. Then, supplement w/ good psychotherapy cases that use EBTs for anxiety and depression, for sure!?! Great plan!

Although pretty rare, I think pediatric neuropsych assessment is interesting, especially in cases of child custody cases. Hope there's no sleaze-ball lawyer about during those evals - Can you imagine!? Then, you be calling in a slew of other professionals to help w/ collateral damage.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Just call Saul.

Geez, my friend, turned down a $7000 referral - good for you!

To the OP - Go for the PhD/PsyD in Clinical Psych and specialize in assessment (infact be a graduate T.A. in assm't & have your dissertation focus on some aspect of it). Forensic psychology is very interesting and CSI is fascinating, but unless you're dialed in w/ JJay's program or hyper-tuned to the field, you will not be able to be achieve a clinical assessment background as a clinician w/ just a forensic psych degree (MA/MS/PhD) unless it is combined clinical. I can't think of any other ways per licensure - please enlightenment someone if you can.

If you want to practice w/ mood disorders and work w/ sleazy lawyers on the side (just don't be sleazy yourself, be ethically-aware), then make sure you have good cognitive/personality testing experience so you can bill out per assessment case. Quick & Easy. Then, supplement w/ good psychotherapy cases that use EBTs for anxiety and depression, for sure!?! Great plan!

I think pediatric neuropsych assessment is interesting, especially in cases of child custody cases. Hope there's no sleaze-ball lawyer about during those evals - Can you imagine!? Then, you be calling in a slew of other professionals to help w/ collateral damage.

Collateral damage when dealing with sleazy lawyers? Pssshaw! 😀

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Child custody evaluations can be lucrative. In my area the evaluations go for $5,000 to $7,000 each (no insurance). If you conducted 4 evaluations a week your making between 900 k and 1.3 million a year. I recently turned a referral away for $7,000. It would have been about a day and a half of work.

You can get more child evals done v. NGRI or medicolegal evals, but it isn't realistic to get 4 of any type of forensic case done per wi.mthey can be get stressful and they will be scrutinized so even a minor error could be damning.