PhD/PsyD Forensic sites

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psydstudent2020

psydstudent2020

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I was hoping some of you have feedback on the following sites in terms of which would be the best for a forensic-focused internship. They seem like they offer similar experiences so I was wondering if at this point I could use location to help make ranking decisions, however, I wanted to make sure first if some were better than others. I’m pretty clueless about the forensic community/training. I have other sites to rank but these are the ones that are the most forensic heavy and similar, thus difficult to rank. Thanks!

Center for Behavioral Medicine - forensic track
Northeast Oklahoma psychology internship program - Oklahoma forensic center
Florida state hospital
Colorado Mental Health Institute Pueblo
BOP - Tallahassee
Fulton state hospital - forensic evaluation track
Larned State Hospital (I honestly don’t know if I could handle living in Kansas; I got depressed after being there just for a day. But if it is the best out of these sites then I would be willing to adjust of course).
South Florida state hospital


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Larned has had alot of bad incidents due to inadequate staffing--just google it. Why anyone would work at a place like that for a typical psychologist salary is beyond me?
 
psydstudent2020 said:
I was hoping some of you have feedback on the following sites in terms of which would be the best for a forensic-focused internship. They seem like they offer similar experiences so I was wondering if at this point I could use location to help make ranking decisions, however, I wanted to make sure first if some were better than others. I’m pretty clueless about the forensic community/training. I have other sites to rank but these are the ones that are the most forensic heavy and similar, thus difficult to rank. Thanks!

Center for Behavioral Medicine - forensic track
Northeast Oklahoma psychology internship program - Oklahoma forensic center
Florida state hospital
Colorado Mental Health Institute Pueblo
BOP - Tallahassee
Fulton state hospital - forensic evaluation track
Larned State Hospital (I honestly don’t know if I could handle living in Kansas; I got depressed after being there just for a day. But if it is the best out of these sites then I would be willing to adjust of course).
South Florida state hospital

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What are your goals?
 
erg923 said:
Larned has had alot of bad incidents due to inadequate staffing--just google it. Why anyone would work at a place like that for a typical psychologist salary is beyond me?
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Yeah I did notice that when I looked them up, but everyone was saying how competitive we would be for post-doc due to the forensic training. But if it is no better than the other sites I mentioned then I would like to know since the location is almost unlivable in my opinion (an hour drive to a Walmart, two hours for anything else).


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BuckeyeLove said:
Larned. omg. The entire town works at that hospital or prison.

BOP sites that come to mind: Butner (If they still have one there); Springfield; Lexington.
State Hospitals: Atascadero; Patton; Pueblo; Arkansas State Hospital; Central Regional Hospital (NC)
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Did you mention those sites because they are particularly exceptional? I had an interview at Pueblo.


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psydstudent2020 said:
Yeah I did notice that when I looked them up, but everyone was saying how competitive we would be for post-doc due to the forensic training. But if it is no better than the other sites I mentioned then I would like to know since the location is almost unlivable in my opinion (an hour drive to a Walmart, two hours for anything else).


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Maybe, but whatevs. Some sites are risky to work in. When its even more dangerous due to incompetence/neglect from the admin and state, I don't risk my safety for the sake of "but its great training."
 
PSYDR said:
Basically, yes.
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Hm, do you know why that is? at one of my interviews they said Florida has the highest standard for licenses so if you got licensed there it would be easy to get licensed anywhere.


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psydstudent2020 said:
Hm, do you know why that is? at one of my interviews they said Florida has the highest standard for licenses so if you got licensed there it would be easy to get licensed anywhere.


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Your degree of license portability in no way protects you from litigation or the outcomes of litigation.

Moreso, it doesn't protect you from various biases/legal precedents regarding provider liability that vary from state to state.

As an aside, what does "highest standard" mean? More/ the most post-doctoral hours, more exams, higher EPPP score required? Whats special about Florida? None of these factors will have a bearing on you being sued successfully or not.
 
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Thank you all for the helpful info about Florida and Larned. Does anyone know anything about sites listed (besides Larned)?


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psydstudent2020 said:
Thank you all for the helpful info about Florida and Larned. Does anyone know anything about sites listed (besides Larned)?


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Click to expand...

All of those sites I listed above I would trust in terms of their approach to training at the internship level in forensic psychology. I cant speak as much on pueblo now, but when I interviewed there years ago there was the opportunity to get comprehensive practical training and didactics on a variety of psycholegal issues. And at that time, the people who were providing that training were to be trusted. I cant say if that's true anymore now though. I would also avoid Florida....for a variety of reasons. I would also stay as far away as you possibly can from St. E's. They are nothing more than a glorified forensic psych workhouse that has lived off of there name and name alone for quite some time now.
 
Center for Behavioral Medicine - forensic track - As of a few years ago they were a bit more therapy oriented than I wanted
Northeast Oklahoma psychology internship program - Oklahoma forensic center - I heard horrible things about this site a few years ago.
Florida state hospital - I have heard the training is solid
Colorado Mental Health Institute Pueblo - Not sure, but I think it is a decent option.
BOP - Tallahassee - Can you do forensic evals here?
Fulton state hospital - forensic evaluation track - I know someone who loved this site and got good training here. This is the one I would rank the highest if I wanted to do forensic evals.
Larned State Hospital (I honestly don’t know if I could handle living in Kansas; I got depressed after being there just for a day. But if it is the best out of these sites then I would be willing to adjust of course). - I know someone who was assaulted here recently.
South Florida state hospital - Not sure
 
BuckeyeLove said:
All of those sites I listed above I would trust in terms of their approach to training at the internship level in forensic psychology. I cant speak as much on pueblo now, but when I interviewed there years ago there was the opportunity to get comprehensive practical training and didactics on a variety of psycholegal issues. And at that time, the people who were providing that training were to be trusted. I cant say if that's true anymore now though. I would also avoid Florida....for a variety of reasons. I would also stay as far away as you possibly can from St. E's. They are nothing more than a glorified forensic psych workhouse that has lived off of there name and name alone for quite some time now.
Click to expand...

You named Pueblo but not Fulton. Do you know anything about their training program?


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psydstudent2020 said:
You named Pueblo but not Fulton. Do you know anything about their training program?


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I only know of Fulton superficially. From what I have heard, the site mirrors the opportunities at other solid state hospital's for training in common psycho-legal referral questions. (They also have a solid competency restoration program, relatively speaking).
 
Does anyone know if it matters if one hospital is technically a “forensic hospital” versus ones like Fulton that are regular state hospitals, yet provide copious forensic training?


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psydstudent2020 said:
Does anyone know if it matters if one hospital is technically a “forensic hospital” versus ones like Fulton that are regular state hospitals, yet provide copious forensic training?


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No, it does not "matter." Look for opportunities for forensic training regardless of the name of the hospital (as long as it is APA-accredited, etc.)
 
Another forensic question - a site I interviewed at said interns can’t write reports they just do the interview and testing (due to the state’s policy on that). Should I rank them lower than my non-forensic sites or is that still good enough experience for post doc? It’s a four month rotation.


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psydstudent2020 said:
Another forensic question - a site I interviewed at said interns can’t write reports they just do the interview and testing (due to the state’s policy on that). Should I rank them lower than my non-forensic sites or is that still good enough experience for post doc? It’s a four month rotation.


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Click to expand...
If you want a forensic postdoc then what you described is probably better than non-forensic sites.
 
psydstudent2020 said:
Another forensic question - a site I interviewed at said interns can’t write reports they just do the interview and testing (due to the state’s policy on that). Should I rank them lower than my non-forensic sites or is that still good enough experience for post doc? It’s a four month rotation.


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Click to expand...

So you're right. This is going to vary based on the site, state, and culture of the site/views of the supervisor. Personally, I would never rank any site high where I wouldn't be the one doing the actual interview from front to back, especially the forensic interview. What you want is the supervisor in the room with you while this is happening, whereby they can observe you, ask questions that aren't asked, and provide supervision about how you did during the interview.
 
I posted previously asking for opinions on my forensic-focused sites. However, I also applied to sites that only have one rotation or a minor rotation in forensics and any information would be very helpful and appreciated as I make ranking decisions. I guess I’m just looking for overall reputations, red flags, etc. about programs. I’ve already factored fit and location into decision I’m just looking for additional information that I may have missed. My last post was eye-opening on some of the sites. Thank you everyone!

Greystone Park Psychiatric Hospital

Mississippi State Hospital

Center for Behavioral Medicine - Clinical Track

Colorado Mental Health Institute at Fort Logan

Broughton Hospital

Northeast Florida State Hospital

Laureate Hospital


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I can only speak for Miss St. A few friends of mine have been placed there and absolutely loved it. They were more acute/treatment focused in terms of their interests. I interviewed there, and found the campus itself to be amazingly gorgeous. It's pretty much Shutter Island. Old. But cool. Most of the old time hospitals/psychiatric campuses like it have gone the way of the Dodo. All of that being said, when I interviewed there years ago, there were limited (at best) opportunities for forensic evaluation observation/training. If I recall, there was one rotation where you could observe some dude who had a contract with the state and the hospital in the community doing the evals.
 
BuckeyeLove said:
I can only speak for Miss St. A few friends of mine have been placed there and absolutely loved it. They were more acute/treatment focused in terms of their interests. I interviewed there, and found the campus itself to be amazingly gorgeous. It's pretty much Shutter Island. Old. But cool. Most of the old time hospitals/psychiatric campuses like it have gone the way of the Dodo. All of that being said, when I interviewed there years ago, there were limited (at best) opportunities for forensic evaluation observation/training. If I recall, there was one rotation where you could observe some dude who had a contract with the state and the hospital in the community doing the evals.
Click to expand...

Thank you again for your help! I’m not sure if it’s the same guy because he’s based in the hospital not in the community. But they said that the state of Mississippi doesn’t allow interns to write reports, so we would only be able to help interview and test (they take a “team approach” on the forensic rotation, which would be good for learning purposes but not for independent experience). Due to this I wasn’t sure how to rank them compared to sites such as Broughton and Fort Logan who have minor rotations in forensics which consist of only observing. Would participating in the interview and testing mean much more in terms of forensic experience for post doc?


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Mississippi State Hospital does team forensic evaluations. This is an n of 1, but I know a person who did internship there and was completely unprepared for a forensic postdoc. However, this person had other training deficits that likely contributed to their poor performance on postdoc. I would rank all accredited internships that allow you to do full forensic evaluations over Mississippi State Hospital.
 
As PhdToBe and Buckeye said, you need to prioritize the sites that allow you to conduct the forensic interview and prepare the report. The sites you've listed probably offer lighter forensic experiences than might be seen at other places. For other applicants who might have the same question, I'll list out the places that jump out immediately as having solid forensic training (in no particular order):

BOP (Butner, Springfield, Devens, Rochester, Metropolitan and Lexington)
Western SH,
Arkansas SH
Patton
Atascadero
Pueblo
State Operated
Florida SH
Fulton
Central Regional
Maybe Eastern Virginia MS

Greystone Park Psychiatric Hospital - Last I heard, they offer a decent training experience in risk assessment but the site wasn't entirely forensic

Mississippi State Hospital - I've also heard about the team assessments. Would be a pass for me.

Center for Behavioral Medicine - Clinical Track - cool site, but more clinically oriented

Colorado Mental Health Institute at Fort Logan - they are now affiliated with the University of Denver Internship Consortium, which is something to consider.

Broughton Hospital - I remember passing on this site because forensic evaluations were only available as an ~8-hour/week secondary rotation.

Northeast Florida State Hospital - Probably the most forensic site out of this bunch. I knew of one person that enjoyed their experience there, but admittedly, I don't know a ton about their program.

Laureate Hospital - never heard of it
 
This was really helpful, thank you! Center for Behavioral Medicine Clinical Track actually offers a rotation where you can conduct and write competency evals.
 
I’m torn between working in a prison for internship and doing forensic evaluation in a state hospital. In a perfect world, I would do forensic evals in a prison but that exact experience is not reflected in any of my internship sites. Thus, my question is, if I completed internship at a prison where I did only therapy and risk assessments, would I still be competitive for formal post docs at a prison site that DOES do evals? Also, if I completed internship at a hospital doing evals, would I still be competitive for BOP sites for post doc? I’m trying to pick the best option for my career goals. I’ve already worked in hospitals and I would like to see if I love prisons as much as I think I would, but I’m also pretty sure I would enjoy doing evaluation. Thanks!
 
But uh, I guess in effort to be more helpful ...

What do you think you would enjoy about working in a prison?
I recognize that other people have different interests and capacities, as well as wildly different assumptions, belief systems, and values when it comes to our incarceration system - so I guess that seems like an important part of this question to me. How are you conceptualizing what working inside a prison would be like?
 
memedoctor said:
But uh, I guess in effort to be more helpful ...

What do you think you would enjoy about working in a prison?
I recognize that other people have different interests and capacities, as well as wildly different assumptions, belief systems, and values when it comes to our incarceration system - so I guess that seems like an important part of this question to me. How are you conceptualizing what working inside a prison would be like?
Click to expand...

The environment wouldn't be something I would want to go to/thru on a daily basis either (I even hated the idea of going through a MP check point a military base because it extended my commute time by 5-10 minutes everyday), but for those married to developing a career in and practicing criminal forensic psychology, it can be a necessary step, and indeed can be appealing to them.

Students tend to overestimate the impact of what internship does for their career in the long-term (sans networking/connections that can be made during this time). That said, this is a highly specialized area, and making your internship experience as close to what you want to do for career for this specialty seems wise. It's only a year, and if one thinks that a prison setting, and more importantly, the training within it, will give them mileage...go for it. I'm not sure how necessary it is though, even for a career that primarily focuses on criminal psych assessment issues.
 
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psydstudent2020 said:
I’m torn between working in a prison for internship and doing forensic evaluation in a state hospital. In a perfect world, I would do forensic evals in a prison but that exact experience is not reflected in any of my internship sites. Thus, my question is, if I completed internship at a prison where I did only therapy and risk assessments, would I still be competitive for formal post docs at a prison site that DOES do evals? Also, if I completed internship at a hospital doing evals, would I still be competitive for BOP sites for post doc? I’m trying to pick the best option for my career goals. I’ve already worked in hospitals and I would like to see if I love prisons as much as I think I would, but I’m also pretty sure I would enjoy doing evaluation. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Do you want to be a correctional psychologist or do you want to specialize in forensic evaluations? I wouldn't say the two are mutually exclusive but working in a correctional facility tends to be its own beast. That being said, I don't think internship is the last chance for you to receive training in evaluations. Nor do I think it will automatically exclude you from obtaining a postdoc with a heavier focus on evaluations. My speciality area is also forensic but I hate working in prisons so for my internship I wanted experience in traditional forensic evaluations (competency, sanity, amenability, juvenile bindover etc) and chose not to apply to any BOPs.
 
LadyHalcyon said:
Do you want to be a correctional psychologist or do you want to specialize in forensic evaluations? I wouldn't say the two are mutually exclusive but working in a correctional facility tends to be its own beast. That being said, I don't think internship is the last chance for you to receive training in evaluations. Nor do I think it will automatically exclude you from obtaining a postdoc with a heavier focus on evaluations. My speciality area is also forensic but I hate working in prisons so for my internship I wanted experience in traditional forensic evaluations (competency, sanity, amenability, juvenile bindover etc) and chose not to apply to any BOPs.
Click to expand...

I want to conduct forensic evals in a correctional setting, which is why I’m so torn. But it’s good to know that wherever I go for internship won’t hurt me in the future.
 
By and large, the only psychologists I know of who complete psycho-legal evaluations within a correctional setting are those that work at about 1 of 5 BOP sites....and most whom I know have done this hate their life after about 3 years. If you are wanting to work in a prison down the line, I wouldn't stress too much about having that experience on internship. They will pretty much hire anyone with a pulse, both in the feds and state, except if you are applying for an evaluator position, and those tend to get picked off by people in house. It sounds like the best case scenario for you right now for internship would be a BOP site (i.e., Devens, Springfield, Butner, Lexington), if what I am hearing is that you a. want to be in a prison setting, and b. want to get training with psycho-legal work.
 
BuckeyeLove said:
By and large, the only psychologists I know of who complete psycho-legal evaluations within a correctional setting are those that work at about 1 of 5 BOP sites....and most whom I know have done this hate their life after about 3 years. If you are wanting to work in a prison down the line, I wouldn't stress too much about having that experience on internship. They will pretty much hire anyone with a pulse, both in the feds and state, except if you are applying for an evaluator position, and those tend to get picked off by people in house. It sounds like the best case scenario for you right now for internship would be a BOP site (i.e., Devens, Springfield, Butner, Lexington), if what I am hearing is that you a. want to be in a prison setting, and b. want to get training with psycho-legal work.
Click to expand...

This was really helpful, thank you. The site I interviewed at said most of them had been there for 10 plus years and it’s rare to get hired on because they don’t need more staff psychs, so I was worried it was now or never.
 
IMO, forensic hospital has MUCH better upsides.

1) It seems that there are some things that is much easier to get into if you get experience in your program, but damn near impossible afterwards. Hospitals seem to be one of those.

2) The real money in forensics is in evaluations. If you look at the CVs of some bigger names in forensics, they got experience in the prisons, and then went into private practice. The consistency in this move should tell you something.

3) There is some protection in having a track history of doing evaluations. Let's say you're in court. Maybe you make a mistake. If the courts have 100 evaluations associated with your name, from multiple attorneys. The triers of fact are more likely to go easy on you in pointing out you made a mistake. If you have nothing attached to your name, attorneys tend to go full force to make you sound outright incompetent, because there is not going to be 99 cases opening up for appeal.

4) Correctional psychology seems to pay much less, aside from a very few locations.

5) It's probably easier to pivot from a hospital. You can downplay the forensics of it all, and seek employment in a traditional hospital. If you went to PP, patients might feel more comfortable with a psychologist "who used to work in a hospital" vs. "worked in a prison". And make no mistake, at some point you'll get bored with what you're doing. Not that you'll act on it, but it's nice to have options.
 
PSYDR said:
IMO, forensic hospital has MUCH better upsides.

1) It seems that there are some things that is much easier to get into if you get experience in your program, but damn near impossible afterwards. Hospitals seem to be one of those.

2) The real money in forensics is in evaluations. If you look at the CVs of some bigger names in forensics, they got experience in the prisons, and then went into private practice. The consistency in this move should tell you something.

3) There is some protection in having a track history of doing evaluations. Let's say you're in court. Maybe you make a mistake. If the courts have 100 evaluations associated with your name, from multiple attorneys. The triers of fact are more likely to go easy on you in pointing out you made a mistake. If you have nothing attached to your name, attorneys tend to go full force to make you sound outright incompetent, because there is not going to be 99 cases opening up for appeal.

4) Correctional psychology seems to pay much less, aside from a very few locations.

5) It's probably easier to pivot from a hospital. You can downplay the forensics of it all, and seek employment in a traditional hospital. If you went to PP, patients might feel more comfortable with a psychologist "who used to work in a hospital" vs. "worked in a prison". And make no mistake, at some point you'll get bored with what you're doing. Not that you'll act on it, but it's nice to have options.
Click to expand...

Thank you! From what I’ve heard, hospitals pay significantly less than BOP? Do forensic evaluations only make good money in PP?
 
Another question - regarding getting the forensic evaluation experience, would it be better to attend an internship that focuses on forensics year-round or one in the state you’re going to seek licensure in that only has a 4 or 6 month rotation in forensic evaluation?
 
psydstudent2020 said:
Another question - regarding getting the forensic evaluation experience, would it be better to attend an internship that focuses on forensics year-round or one in the state you’re going to seek licensure in that only has a 4 or 6 month rotation in forensic evaluation?
Click to expand...
I say the second. The forensic community can be somewhat small. It's good to make connections. That being said, I hate rotations just because it feels it's time to switch just when you are getting the hang of things.
 
LadyHalcyon said:
I say the second. The forensic community can be somewhat small. It's good to make connections. That being said, I hate rotations just because it feels it's time to switch just when you are getting the hang of things.
Click to expand...

So in terms of applying to formal post docs that wouldn’t make me less competitive?
 
A lot have mentioned Florida state, Pueblo, and Fulton as being among the best forensic training. However, if there is a certain state know you want to practice in, would it be better to do an internship in that state that only has a 4 or 6 month rotation in forensic evaluation? Or does it look better to go to a place like Pueblo that has it year round? I know formal post docs in forensics can be competitive so I wanted to make sure before I ranked based on location.
 
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