Forensics???

[ClayMatthews]

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Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm an M3 non-trad student, with a wife and kids, and will have somewhere between 250-300 thousand dollars in student loans when I'm done.

The specialty choice is on the horizon, and I'm kind of confused for all the wrong reasons. I'm competitive enough for any of the ROAD specialties, but I find myself being most excited about becoming a medical examiner someday. If my family is taken care of, I could also be happy in a field like radiology. Herein lies my dilemma. I know forensic pathologists make less than many medical specialties, and I worry about being strapped with my loans. I don't need to be rich, I just don't want to finish this journey and be worried about money. Taking care of my family means more to me than being 100% satisfied with my career, so I just don't want to look back and think "damn, I f*cked that up" because I'm not going back on this decision. I think a path residency would be enjoyable for me because I like getting my hands dirty, enjoy the detective work, and like the idea of being home with my family at night.

Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not a high roller type of dude, so please don't light me up about the $ thing. I'm just trying to do what's right for me and my family, and afford my children options that weren't available to me.

Thanks.

 

[2121115]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm an M3 non-trad student, with a wife and kids, and will have somewhere between 250-300 thousand dollars in student loans when I'm done.

The specialty choice is on the horizon, and I'm kind of confused for all the wrong reasons. I'm competitive enough for any of the ROAD specialties, but I find myself being most excited about becoming a medical examiner someday. If my family is taken care of, I could also be happy in a field like radiology. Herein lies my dilemma. I know forensic pathologists make less than many medical specialties, and I worry about being strapped with my loans. I don't need to be rich, I just don't want to finish this journey and be worried about money. Taking care of my family means more to me than being 100% satisfied with my career, so I just don't want to look back and think "damn, I f*cked that up" because I'm not going back on this decision. I think a path residency would be enjoyable for me because I like getting my hands dirty, enjoy the detective work, and like the idea of being home with my family at night.

Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not a high roller type of dude, so please don't light me up about the $ thing. I'm just trying to do what's right for me and my family, and afford my children options that weren't available to me.

Thanks.

Go to paycheckcity.com and type in your information and it will tell you your after tax take home pay at different salaries (use 175K to start for forensics). Figure out what your monthly bills are going to be (done easily online with loan interest calculators) and then subtract from after tax income. Then factor in that a nice home in a large city in a good school district will run you 500k + and figure out the payment on that. Then see what you have left over for vacations, eating out, savings, retirement contributions, what ever else, etc.

Now factor in that after tax take home pay for a radiologist is in the neighborhood of 2-3 times your original number.

If you can live with that, then go for it.

 

[JPR22]

With 300k in student loans, and a family, I think that you should avoid pathology. It's too risky and theres simply too many pathologists. If money and employment weren't an issue, I'd say go for path.

 

[HbyHA]

try more like 120,000 to 140,000...

if you're lucky. i hope i'm that lucky.

Go to paycheckcity.com and type in your information and it will tell you your after tax take home pay at different salaries (use 175K to start for forensics). Figure out what your monthly bills are going to be (done easily online with loan interest calculators) and then subtract from after tax income. Then factor in that a nice home in a large city in a good school district will run you 500k + and figure out the payment on that. Then see what you have left over for vacations, eating out, savings, retirement contributions, what ever else, etc.

Now factor in that after tax take home pay for a radiologist is in the neighborhood of 2-3 times your original number.

If you can live with that, then go for it.

 

[KCShaw]

My opinion on such things is to do what you know floats your boat. But, I know contentment includes knowing you can afford to live without a constant financial struggle. Do what it takes to "know" you really want to do pathology, particularly forensic pathology, which is a small and unique niche within the small and unique niche of path. I say this a lot, but neither life nor medical school typically give one an accurate sense of what pathology entails -- much less forensic pathology. The people most sure in their ignorance of path/forensic path tend to be other physicians. This decision may be made much easier following general pathology & forensic pathology rotations. Also be aware that in my experience many people who go into pathology with the initial goal of doing forensic path, alter that goal before they finish -- whether that's because of money, discovering forensic path isn't what they thought it would be, or hounding by non-forensic faculty who make even hospital autopsies a chore at best.

As for the forensic path job market, while contacts are still a very useful resource, some jobs are posted either on the NAME or AAFS websites, typically including salary ranges. While in the last 5 or so years the starting salary ranges seem to be creeping upward, from around $110-120k to more like $140-150k, there may also be fewer openings (perhaps related to hiring freezes, since offices are generally paid out of county or state budgets). And, of course, there is a lot of variation -- I've seen supposed "starting" jobs posted for just under $100k to over $200k, dependent on cost of living &/or whether the office is privatized or whether you are the only forensic pathology covering a given office or area. Until I stopped looking at available jobs a year or two ago, a lot were available and everyone seemed interested in interviewing anyone who had already passed AP/CP and was coming out of an accredited fellowship. The down side is that the jobs are very scattered; one office typically serves a large area, so you are very likely to have to move with any job change. On the other hand, a lot of people can and do stay in the same job/office for a long time, unless they are either very ambitious or make a lot of mistakes (political or otherwise).

There are a lot of up sides to forensic pathology as a career, and I would love to encourage anyone with an interest to pursue that interest. But I also don't want anyone to get too far down a trail without as much information as possible up front. Unfortunately, only you (perhaps with the help of a professional financial advisor) can judge your own financial status.

 

[Circumflex]

I agree. The starting salaries are 120 - 140K. Also, there are never many job openings in any one area, so you never know if you will be able to stay in the area where you train, or have to move to find a job. Also, local governments are more and more strapped for cash and there can be lay-offs. However, I think it is a great field and I am really enjoying it. Plus, the lifestyle is not bad at all.

 

[ClayMatthews]

Thank you all for the feedback, I've found it very helpful. Forensic path will definitely stay on my list, although it doesn't sound like it would be the most fiscally responsible maneuver. Do most of these county jobs offer some type of tuition reimbursement? I know that where I'm at, psychiatrists working for the county get a substantial chunk of change put toward their loans every year. Thanks again!

 

[deleted314957]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm an M3 non-trad student, with a wife and kids, and will have somewhere between 250-300 thousand dollars in student loans when I'm done.

The specialty choice is on the horizon, and I'm kind of confused for all the wrong reasons. I'm competitive enough for any of the ROAD specialties, but I find myself being most excited about becoming a medical examiner someday. If my family is taken care of, I could also be happy in a field like radiology. Herein lies my dilemma. I know forensic pathologists make less than many medical specialties, and I worry about being strapped with my loans. I don't need to be rich, I just don't want to finish this journey and be worried about money. Taking care of my family means more to me than being 100% satisfied with my career, so I just don't want to look back and think "damn, I f*cked that up" because I'm not going back on this decision. I think a path residency would be enjoyable for me because I like getting my hands dirty, enjoy the detective work, and like the idea of being home with my family at night.

Please let me know your thoughts. I'm not a high roller type of dude, so please don't light me up about the $ thing. I'm just trying to do what's right for me and my family, and afford my children options that weren't available to me.

Thanks.

You have a crushing dept load, a wife and kids (whom I presume you want to be able to afford an Ivy league type/cost education) and you have no strong feelings for which speciality you want to go into. In your shoes I would look at rads, particularly interventional rads if you like to get your "hands dirty". I would not go into forensic path. I may be the voice of experience as I have been out of med school for >30 years and am AP/CP/FP. I could go on but that is how i bottom-line it for you.

 

[2121115]

You have a crushing dept load, a wife and kids (whom I presume you want to be able to afford an Ivy league type/cost education) and you have no strong feelings for which speciality you want to go into. In your shoes I would look at rads, particularly interventional rads if you like to get your "hands dirty". I would not go into forensic path. I may be the voice of experience as I have been out of med school for >30 years and am AP/CP/FP. I could go on but that is how i bottom-line it for you.

I agree. If you truly have no strong feelings either way, then go radiology or anesthesia.

 

[KCShaw]

I'm not aware of anyone in FP who received tuition reimbursement, etc., from their government employer. It's possibly something that could be discussed during contract negotiations, and maybe people are doing it -- it's just never come up to me, as far as I recall.

Not that you'd want to bet your career on it, but there has been increasing discussion regarding debt forgiveness, income-based repayment plans leading to forgiving the remaining debt, and the like, to reduce the financial burden on medical students/young physicians. There's just no telling exactly what that will entail or when, if ever, it will go into full effect.