Formal Post-Bacc or Ad Hoc?

[JD/MD]

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I am planning to start taking my med school pre-reqs this summer at U.T. Austin. U.T. is a good school but does not have a formal post bacc program, and, consequently, no linkage agreements either. I'm an older student, 34, and have been practicing law for a number of years. My undergraduate GPA was OK but unspectacular (3.44), and my law school GPA was poor (3.04). I am weighing whether to apply to a formal post-bacc program, although applying will probably require me to wait a year as the deadline for many programs has passed or is about to. One other hitch: I am going to have to take the GRE. I did well on the LSAT, but most post-bacc programs won't accept LSAT scores in lieu of SAT or GRE scores--and my SAT scores (1180) are quite mediocre (I was a wayward youth--long story). I'm a TX resident, so I can go to U.T. on the cheap, whereas I'd have to pay big money to go to a private school. If I decide to apply to a formal post-bacc program, and then am accepted, I'd have to sit out a year--that is, I wouldn't be able to start my post-bacc classes until summer/fall 2007. (I understand that a few programs let students begin in the spring, but, for reasons of timing, starting spring 2007 won't enable me to apply to med school any sooner.) On the other hand, in a post-bacc program I can take advantage of the program's linkage agreements. Getting into med school through a linkage agreement, however, is more difficult, or at least that is my understanding.

Whew! Anyhow, these (above) are some of the considerations I'm trying to weigh. There may be others I haven't taken into account. Based on what I've reported, what advice do you folks have, if any, as to which route I should take? Thanks for your help.

 

[doogie1000]

its not too late for bryn mawr!

http://www.brynmawr.edu/postbac/admission.shtml

their deadline is may 1 but dont wait much longer. full time post-bacc program is the only way to go. i am an "older" student also. bryn mawr helped "package me" for med school applications. it showed i was serious about going to school and not just taking courses on the side and seeing what happens. it showed i was committed and provided the individualized advising i needed as an older student. bryn mawr is a wonderful program -- expensive-- but worth it!

also, you dont need the GRE. i had to dig out my 15 y.o. SAT scores off microfilm -- they'll still have them. your undergrad grades are fine as long as you get your essay/story down. they wont care about your law school grades.

 

[vexer]

I'm in the same position as JD/MD. I'm 31 and I graduated from University of Arizona in 2000 w/ my JD. My undergrad GPA was excellent, but my law school GPA was not so good. If the schools truly blow off the grad school GPA, I feel my chances are a lot better.

I'm looking for a post-bac program because I think that being around like-minded people will make the process a whole lot easier than just enrolling as an undergrad a public univeristy. I would get lost in the crowd, and have to worry about getting into the right classes when so many are already full or overcrowed.

Utlimately, I'd like to stay in the west. If anybody has any info about Universty of Oregon's program, I would be intested. Also considering Scripps. Expensive, but what's another 20k in student loans, right?
Other suggestions?

Thanks.

 

[Lawguy]

also, you dont need the GRE. i had to dig out my 15 y.o. SAT scores off microfilm -- they'll still have them. your undergrad grades are fine as long as you get your essay/story down. they wont care about your law school grades.

I think the OP's concern about his/her SAT score was that it was (a little) low, not that it was old. That's a concern I have too, to be honest -- does anyone have a sense as to how heavily programs will weigh standardized test scores in their admissions process? I scored a 28 on the ACT (which is roughly equivalent to a 1260 or so on the SAT, to the extent the two are comparable). My undergraduate grades were comparable to the OP's (3.46), although my law school grades were actually better than my undergrad grades (3.73, and top 5% of my law school class -- though from what I've read here, I doubt my law school grades will help me much if I decide to apply to post bac programs).

Anyway, does anyone have a sense as to how programs will evaluate all of this? I'd like to think that at this stage of my life, my ACT score from when I was 17 years old wouldn't be more relevant than everything I've done since then, but the fact that they require it proves that they do care about it, at least to some extent...

 

[doogie1000]

based on the people i knew at bryn mawr, you are in range, especially for an older student. perhaps a little on the low side when you include people just out of school. however, your application will reflect much more than ACT and undergrad grades at this point in your career. what else have you done to show that you are motivated to be a doctor? have you done any volunteer work? has your legal work given you any special insights into being a doctor? etc. your experience is interesting and will add age and life experience to a post-bacc class -- which largely is composed of people less than 2 years out of undergrad who went to east coast schools.

I think the OP's concern about his/her SAT score was that it was (a little) low, not that it was old. That's a concern I have too, to be honest -- does anyone have a sense as to how heavily programs will weigh standardized test scores in their admissions process? I scored a 28 on the ACT (which is roughly equivalent to a 1260 or so on the SAT, to the extent the two are comparable). My undergraduate grades were comparable to the OP's (3.46), although my law school grades were actually better than my undergrad grades (3.73, and top 5% of my law school class -- though from what I've read here, I doubt my law school grades will help me much if I decide to apply to post bac programs).

Anyway, does anyone have a sense as to how programs will evaluate all of this? I'd like to think that at this stage of my life, my ACT score from when I was 17 years old wouldn't be more relevant than everything I've done since then, but the fact that they require it proves that they do care about it, at least to some extent...

 

[Lawguy]

based on the people i knew at bryn mawr, you are in range, especially for an older student. perhaps a little on the low side when you include people just out of school. however, your application will reflect much more than ACT and undergrad grades at this point in your career. what else have you done to show that you are motivated to be a doctor? have you done any volunteer work? has your legal work given you any special insights into being a doctor? etc. your experience is interesting and will add age and life experience to a post-bacc class -- which largely is composed of people less than 2 years out of undergrad who went to east coast schools.

Doogie -- thank you for your insight. It sounds like, in your eyes, the schools really do look at the "whole applicant," and not just at numbers -- that's refreshing, especially to someone like me whose "numbers" were earned a long time ago (I'm 30 now), and who has done a lot since then.

Right now, the rest of my application is very sparse (my legal specialty is not medicine-related, and I have no medical-related volunteer work), but I'm going to work on that. The thing about me is that, unlike most people here, I'm actually not sure that I want to make this career change -- I think I do, but I've already made the mistake of choosing one career that turned out to be less fulfilling that I thought it would be, so I'm not going to make this change without giving it a year or two of serious thought. If I do decide to go for it, I would most likely be applying to post bac programs two years from now (possibly one year, but that's at the very earliest). Right now, I am looking for interesting volunteer opportunities, both to help my application and to help me figure out whether this path is the right one for me. Anyway, the point is, although I don't have any relevant volunteer experience now, I should have some by the time I apply (if I apply).

On a related note -- how much volunteer experience do most post bac applicants have? I'm sure everyone has a different answer for that, but do you have a sense as to what is "typical"?

 

[goyankees]

I'm in a very similar situation. Currently a lawyer, and debating making the switch, but not for a year or so, both so I can explore the field/volunteer and work on paying off some debt before I take on a bunch more. But it's definitely not something I want to jump blindly into, which is how I ended up a lawyer after wanting to be a doctor since I was a little kid. I've been talking to lots of people and every time I tell them what I'm debating doing, I get the - more school, are you insane? At any rate, the scariest thing to me is the whole debt thing, especially since law school was frighteningly expensive. I'm not sure where this is going, but it's encouraging to see that there are other lawyers out there also want to take on medical school. I'm hoping to apply to Bryn Mawr next year, as it seems the best fit for me, but we'll see... I'm also curious as to how much volunteer experience applicants typically have.

 

[doogie1000]

i volunteered for ~6 mos to see if i liked it. that was enough time to convince myself i was making the right decision by applying to postbacc programs. however, it wasnt until i finished the first summer of my postbacc program that i was convinced i was actually going to apply to med school.

like you, pretty much everyone in my life told me i was insane. why more school -- you already have a graduate degree? you're giving up your career? what about all the debt? what about family? what about being so old with all those 22 y.o. etc. these were tough questios b/c these were things i wrestled with myself.

and looking back it WAS an insane decision. it was certainly not PROFIT MAXIMIZING at my stage of my career. but i thought it would make me happy, give me fulfillment, make my life more meaningful. those arent things other people could decide for me. and i couldnt add it up on a balance sheet. it was a gut feeling, carefully researched and thought through OVER TIME.

now all those people who told me i was insane are convinced. but i had to convince myself first. volunteering helped get me closer. applying to a postbacc program and then surviving (and even enjoying it) got me even closer.

i agree with not making the jump blindly -- but dont be afraid to take calculated first steps so you can figure out if this is something you want to do. also-- you dont need to lay out the whole grand plan all at once. just tell people you're interested in health care and want to do some volunteering.

I'm in a very similar situation. Currently a lawyer, and debating making the switch, but not for a year or so, both so I can explore the field/volunteer and work on paying off some debt before I take on a bunch more. But it's definitely not something I want to jump blindly into, which is how I ended up a lawyer after wanting to be a doctor since I was a little kid. I've been talking to lots of people and every time I tell them what I'm debating doing, I get the - more school, are you insane? At any rate, the scariest thing to me is the whole debt thing, especially since law school was frighteningly expensive. I'm not sure where this is going, but it's encouraging to see that there are other lawyers out there also want to take on medical school. I'm hoping to apply to Bryn Mawr next year, as it seems the best fit for me, but we'll see... I'm also curious as to how much volunteer experience applicants typically have.

 

[Lawguy]

I'm in a very similar situation. Currently a lawyer, and debating making the switch, but not for a year or so, both so I can explore the field/volunteer and work on paying off some debt before I take on a bunch more. But it's definitely not something I want to jump blindly into, which is how I ended up a lawyer after wanting to be a doctor since I was a little kid. I've been talking to lots of people and every time I tell them what I'm debating doing, I get the - more school, are you insane? At any rate, the scariest thing to me is the whole debt thing, especially since law school was frighteningly expensive. I'm not sure where this is going, but it's encouraging to see that there are other lawyers out there also want to take on medical school. I'm hoping to apply to Bryn Mawr next year, as it seems the best fit for me, but we'll see... I'm also curious as to how much volunteer experience applicants typically have.

Every single thing you said in this post could just as well have come from me. I get the exact same reaction from people when I tell them what I'm considering doing, which is why I have told only a select few people in my life (and my parents are not among them, even though we're a close family, because I know they'd try to talk me out of it and ask me about it every time we talk -- if I do this, my parents will learn of my decision no sooner than right after I've been accepted to a post bac school).

As to what you said about taking on more student loan debt -- I am also concerned about that, especially since the post bac programs I'm looking at are basically as expensive as another year of med school. I think that if you look at it from a financial standpoint, then leaving the law to pursue medicine is definitely a losing proposition, especially if you're at a major firm -- by the time you finish your residency, you would've either made partner at your firm, made partner at a smaller firm, or you'd have an in-house job somewhere (can be just as lucrative, depending on where you are). Instead, we're looking at giving up about ten years of income and taking on more debt, with the very real possibility that we'll earn less than we earn right now (even after residency). That said, though, I think I'd be happier in medicine, and you just can't put a price tag on that.

Please feel free to PM me, and keep in touch (and I'll do the same). I'm pretty sporadic about reading these boards, but it sounds like we're in about the same place in the decision process, and I'll be interested to know what you end up doing. Good luck to both of us!