Formal Program or do it on my own ??????????

[AmArIe]

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🙁 Hi everyone well to make a long story short I let my family pressure me into giving up the whole med school thing about a year ago. Things I have learned since then:
1. Never let others say that you are not good enough 😡 just because they can?t achieve anything in they?re own lives.
2. Put your desires before your family 🙄
ok got accepted into law school reallyyyyyyy don?t want to go, that whole thing is just not me, even sent deposit I really don?t care about losing it I just cant handle being in a place I don?t fell a desire to be I know that I want to be there for others be an important part of their lives and health I want to something useful not sit at a desk and do briefs and that sort of stuff. I?m trying to break the news to my family, by the way just graduated about four days ago so just have to think now which would be better doing a formal program or talking to my school and see if I can take the classes on my own or do a second degree but not having to do the classes I already passed.

 

[r_salis]

Hi ylitia -- your question has come up a lot in this forum, so much so that it's one of the items in the FAQ: 😉

(Good luck with your decision! 🙂 )

3. Okay, I thought about all that but still don't know if I should do a formal program or just do it myself at state university. Are their any advantages to doing one way over the other?

This topic is hotly debated as you'll see in threads on this forum. There is no concrete answer because it depends on the individual's situation. That said, here are some of the commonly mentioned pros and cons of each:

Formal Programs:

Pros - these programs tend to have a set schedule to get you out in a certain length of time (usually 1-2 yrs). You usually have special advisors for the program to help you out with the process, finding volunteer opportunities, planning how to study for the MCAT, etc. Some of the "big name" programs, ie Harvard Extension, Columbia, Goucher, Bryn Mawr, Mills, Scripps, etc., have good reputations and get a lot of people into school. Some of them have small class sizes and you get good opportunities to connect with professors. Some will write you a committee letter of rec for med school. You'll be surrounded with people who share your goal and will work hard to get it. Some progarms have linkages to med schools. If you do well enough you can get directly admitted to med school and skip the lag year.

Cons - The cost is what many see as the biggest con with these programs. With the exception of Harvard Extension, most of them are pretty expensive. Some people feel that these programs create a competitive, "gunner" atmosphere where people are all striving to do better than each other on the tests. Quality of teaching, advising, research and clinical opportunities, can be hot or miss, as with any school. Linkages may not be guaranteed and may be hard to get if you are not in the top of the class.

Do It Yourself At State School:

Pros: Usually cheaper than going to a formal program. Flexible schedule that you design yourself. Many schools will give you access to their premed advising and letter services. If you're at a large state school research opportunities can be very good. If you're a serious, older student at a school that has a more "party" feel to it, it is easier to network with professors, get lab jobs, etc. since you will be more focused than many of the students.

Cons: you have to arrange everything yourself. It may be hard to get into classes you need depending on your registration status. Quality of opportunities varies and may/may not be as good as at a formal program. If you need structure and competitive people around you to do your best, this may not be the best way to go.

 

[cher25]

If you have decent grades, and haven't taken the pre-reqs, do a formal program with a linkage...there are tons:

http://services.aamc.org/postbac/

 

[OpenIntro]

What exactly does "With Linkage" mean?

 

[cher25]

What exactly does "With Linkage" mean?

The programs that have agreements with med schools that upon successful completion of the program, you'll get accepted into one of the med schools that they are 'linked' with.

 

[benelswick]

From what I understnad the programs that have the linkage possiblities are the SMP programs which are masters programs where you take medical school classes along with med students, and you recieve a masters degree. The reason for the high accpetance rates from these types of programs is because IF! you do well you are literally proving your ability on equal ground with actual med student. I don't think any of the other options could provide with the same predictive capacity. But everbody's needs are different and suffice to say there are plenty of school who will package different programs to get you student loan money. Just think clearly about what you need out of it before you give them you cash.

by the way congrats on your decision to go it you own way.

 

[VeganSoprano]

Everyone's situation is a little different, but for me a formal post-bacc was not only the best option, it was really the only option. There are a few reasons for this:

-The state school for me is U of DC - which is also the local community college. An open admission school in a jurisdiction where the public school system is a shambles and everything is underfunded. Facilities are in disrepair, students and faculty are unmotivated - basically, it's a nightmare. Cheap tuition is the only good thing - it has been useful for taking some introductory-level prereqs, but no way will it be good enough to get me in vet school in the long run.

-Money. Yes, post-baccs are expensive, but you can get student loans to pay for them, and sometimes even grants or scholarships. It's very, very difficult to get student loans if you're taking classes on your own. I work for a nonprofit and there is no way I can afford to take classes anywhere but UDC on my own.

-Access to all the resources traditional pre-health professional students get - such as advising, recommendations, etc. These things are definitely available to folks who are taking classes on their own, but you have to fight harder for them. I'm not very good at being a squeaky wheel.

-The opportunity to take classes with other top-notch pre-professional students. At UDC, even the pre-meds are clearly products of a system that hasn't prepared them for the rigors of this type of program. Most have simply not learned what it is to be a good student. I need to be around good students - otherwise it's too easy for me to get lazy.

-Having a solid undergrad GPA (3.3) was another huge factor - it gave me automatic acceptance into American's program. Mentally, not having to go through a formal application process made things easier for me.

Anyhow, that's just how I arrived at my personal decision. No two situations are the same, though.

 

[cher25]

From what I understnad the programs that have the linkage possiblities are the SMP programs which are masters programs where you take medical school classes along with med students, and you recieve a masters degree. The reason for the high accpetance rates from these types of programs is because IF! you do well you are literally proving your ability on equal ground with actual med student. I don't think any of the other options could provide with the same predictive capacity. But everbody's needs are different and suffice to say there are plenty of school who will package different programs to get you student loan money. Just think clearly about what you need out of it before you give them you cash.

by the way congrats on your decision to go it you own way.

Not all are special Masters, most are for students who didn't previously have pre-reqs done. These have linkages to certain schools. Some are for students who have already completed the pre reqs and gaurantee admission upon successful completion of the program.

 

[benelswick]

Yeah but the ones with real options for acceptance at their sister med schools seem to be the masters programs. I'm thinking you may be referring to the Drexel programs but I cant think of anything else linkage wise. Enlighten us with specific programs if you would--Appreciate it.--Ben

 

[Singing Devil]

I had a low GPA and didn't know quite what to do. I tried the whole "do it on my own" thing. Suffice to say, close but no cigar. Now that I'm finishing my first year at the SMP at BU with near a 3.8, and I'm doing a real research thesis (!!!), I feel assured of getting in to several places. The basic difference is that there is some significant risk taking involved in trying to do your own self-postbacc. The success rates here and also the copious advising from med school professors and admissions committee members that I've gotten at BU has made me wish I'd seen the light 5 years ago and done a postbacc then. I could not be more pleased with what this program has done for my med school application.

 

[blankguy]

But singing Devil for somebody who has a low GPA it would be hard to get into a formal postbacc because a lot of them have a formal cutoff in GPA like BU (>3.3). Wouldn't the way to go be something a long the lines of do it your own initially then with those grades apply to either a postbac or a special masters?? 😕

 

[Singing Devil]

But singing Devil for somebody who has a low GPA it would be hard to get into a formal postbacc because a lot of them have a formal cutoff in GPA like BU (>3.3). Wouldn't the way to go be something a long the lines of do it your own initially then with those grades apply to either a postbac or a special masters?? 😕

Ah, yes. I was hoping I wouldn't get caught there, but you have seen through my clever scheme. Curses.

In all honesty, I don't know the answer to your question. I had a really low overall GPA with a recent good history when I applied to BU, plus the killer MCAT score, so that got me in. But, I never really got the impression my application was in doubt. If your GPA is seriously low, I would recommend emailing or calling the people who run the programs (e.g. Dr. Broitman at BU) and asking them if they'd be willing to accept you. They should probably be up front about your chances.

But your suggestion is a good one, if one is worried about it. BU took me, and I did more or less what you suggested (I think I had 28 hours total postgrad... about a 3.5 average for all of it, although it only raised my cumulative to 2.6).

In my case, I probably had enough extra coursework several years ago (2000... okay I was 26), that I could have applied to BU's program and gotten in, rather than wait until 2003 to start. That was more what I meant in my regret--that I wish I had pursued the postbacc option rather than thinking I could have gotten in just on my own (although I did waitlist at SLU, and so I was close).

 

[VeganSoprano]

I think if your undergrad GPA is seriously low, the best thing is to do a few "do-it-yourself" courses at a nearby state school or the local community college, do well in them, and apply to a formal post-bacc at that time. Even if there is a published GPA cut-off, most schools will be willing to give you a chance if you can give them a reason to think you can do well in their program.

 

[stwei]

Just my 2cents... 🙄
There is a way to yank the ball into your ballpark and also to satisfy expectations of your family members by going to law school and getting a health law degree. You'll receive excellent training in social interaction skills, in protecting yourself as a future physician if you get caught in a malpractice suit, in becoming an active advocate for health consumers, and in building a healthy business. The necessary survival skills are not commonly taught and sufficiently emphasised at med schools. This choice also has the potential of making you more financially secure.

Medicine is not so clear-cut - the stereotype that physicians just treat patients and cash a fat check at the end of the day doesn't exist in the real world. Physicians need to be multi-disciplinary and be more on their own two feet. The more knowledge and skills you've got under your belt, the better off you'll be in the short and long run. I wouldn't worry so much about the postbacc classes, as long as you've got the basic prerequisites - chem, physics, and biology, which every decent undergrad school considers mandatory. The fact that you got admitted into law school already speaks volumes about your intellectual capacity. So take the initiative to make the best out of it that you can.

 

[samurai_lincoln]

Just my 2cents... 🙄
There is a way to yank the ball into your ballpark and also to satisfy expectations of your family members by going to law school and getting a health law degree. You'll receive excellent training in social interaction skills, in protecting yourself as a future physician if you get caught in a malpractice suit, in becoming an active advocate for health consumers, and in building a healthy business. The necessary survival skills are not commonly taught and sufficiently emphasised at med schools. This choice also has the potential of making you more financially secure.

As a law school graduate, I disagree vehemently with this advice. If you are trying to get into med school, taking a three year detour to attend law school does very little to enhance your credentials (at best), and in my opinion detracts from your application. First off, you are removing yourself from science classes for three years, which is not going to sit well with adcoms. There is no getting around the fact that med school is heavily science-oriented. Then you are going to explain in interviews why you obtained an unrelated professional degree, when what you really want to do is practice medicine.

Also, very few law schools offer any substantial coursework in health law. Case and Houston seem to be the leaders in the field, but both are pretty mediocre law schools overall. And even the most health-focused curriculum will only allow enough flexibility to take 4 or 5 classes in the area, as you are going to want to have coursework in corporate law, evidence, etc. since it is a bear to pass the bar trying to learn this on your own.

I think your perspective on the law school curriculum is off the mark. Virtually everything is classroom lecture based. You do not learn any great oratory skills through this type of format. I think I had two oral arguments during my first year, and nothing beyond that. Participating in extracurricular activities such as moot coot is about the only way to pick this up, and the number of slots for this are limited. Finally, re: your comment about protecting oneself from malpractice suits... anyone who has not practiced law for several years and would try to defend a complex med mal case on their own is a complete idiot. The plaintiff's attorneys would eat you alive, as this is what they do for a living.

I wouldn't worry so much about the postbacc classes, as long as you've got the basic prerequisites - chem, physics, and biology, which every decent undergrad school considers mandatory. The fact that you got admitted into law school already speaks volumes about your intellectual capacity. So take the initiative to make the best out of it that you can.

Again, I disagree. There are close to 190 ABA accredited law schools in the United States. Over half these are complete crap, and admit almost anyone. And outside of the top 15 or so schools, the standards are still not that stringent. Hell, I got into several top 25 schools with a freakin' 2.5 gpa! I don't think adcoms are going to be remotely impressed unless you attended a school within the top 25 or so. Despite common perception, law school is not particularly rigorous from an academic standpoint. Your entire grade in 90% of your classes is based on a single final exam. After the first semester, everyone figures out that it is pointless to do much work until after the midpoint of the semester. I thought law school was a complete joke compared to the difficulty of my UG engineering courses.

Oh yeah, and I completely left out the mention of debt accrual. Law school is an extremely expensive proposition. Private school tuitions exceed $30k in many cases, just like med school. Good luck with funding 4 years of med school after putting yourself in 6 figure debt before you start.

Sorry to burst the bubble on your plan, but I just wanted to give a realistic perspective on what I feel is very poor advice.

 

[babybribs]

sounds like a real tough situation. Which law school did ou send your deposit to?

 

[angstrom55]

I think you can go either way. I had a girl in my lab who's doing postbac after i think 4 years working at price waterhouse coopers. I think she's doing postback b/c she hasn't been in school for so long.

On the other hand, my b/f was flim/studioart major and decided towards the end to switch to premed so he took classes on his own (sorta...he was still enrolled to finish up his other major but tacked on sci classes too).

I think if you're not totally lost on the track to getting into med school, you could probably take a couple of years to do the prereqs at community college or a cheaper school than a full on expensive university, volunteer and research, and then do mcats.