Formula Cutoff/ How to pick schools?/ Advice???

[TopVeggie]

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Howdy!

EDIT:
First, some real questions:
1. Which schools have a formula cut off?
2. Which schools have creative admissions offices?
3. Which schools are friendly to non-traditional students?
4. Which schools emphasize clinical education?


I can't really figure out how to pick schools or genuinely assess my competitiveness! Any feedback/suggestions/advice appreciated muchly. Thanks!!

My stats:
MCAT: 36S (12, 12, 12)
GPA: 3.1ish, @ MIT
Grad GPA: 3.7ish @ BU
CA resident

I have an MPH, worked and volunteered as an EMT for 3 years, and presently design hospitals for a living (kinda neat, no?).

I didn't get into medicine until after my Junior year of college, after I already burned my GPA by just not caring about it and focusing instead on architecture studios. I hope my MCAT score shows that I'm not a bum. I figure I should apply broadly; I just want to get in *somewhere* so I can be a doctor. I honestly don't know which to consider reasonably attainable, and which are reach-y.

Interested in primary care, or something non-research-y.

My tentative list, sorted by state but in no particular preferential order:

1-5. UC SF, LA, Davis, SD, Irvine
6. Stanford
7. USC
8. Northwestern
9. Harvard
10. BU
11. Tufts
12. Michigan State
13. U Mich Ann Arbor
14. Mayo
15. Washington in St. Louis
16. UNC
18. Wake Forest
19. Duke
20. Dartmouth
21. Einstein
22. Mt. Sinai
23. NYU
24. Case Western
25. Ohio State
26. U Penn
27. U Pitt
28. Drexel
29. Brown
30. Baylor
32. UVA
33. University of Washington
34. U Wisconsin Madison

 

[somethingpositi]

Your GPA is going to hurt you, and you have a lot of very good schools on your list: the UCs, Stanford, Harvard, U Mich, U Penn, etc. 34 schools is a lot to apply to, so I would recommend cutting out a few of the top schools.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

LOL, if you're (1) interested in primary care or something non-researchy and (2) just want to get in *somewhere,* then why on earth are Harvard, Stanford, and U Penn on your list? C'mon (wo)man, at least give it to us straight. 😀

But as regards your chances, you should definitely take Stanford, U of Wash, Wash U of SL, and Wake Forest off your list:
1) Stanford is explicit that they are looking for physician-educators who will become researchers and professors. If that's not you, don't bother-- unless you're prepared totally lie your way through your secondary and your interview (not a good idea).
2) U of Wash will basically only take Wash residents-- they only make exceptions for URMs. So unless you're a URM, don't bother.
3) Wash U of SL is famous for being a total number *****. Your UG GPA will almost certainly disqualify you from consideration there.
4) Wake Forest has very strict OOS GPA cut-offs. They told me point-blank that the reason I wasn't given a secondary last year was that my GPA wasn't high enough-- and yet, my GPA was in the low "A" range.

I will, say, though, that a background like yours will potentially be attractive to more "creative" admissions offices like Harvard. Also, have you considered adding Yale? They like candidates with more storied backgrounds, as well.

Good luck to you!
[still chuckling that the person who just wants to get in *somewhere* is applying to Harvard]

 

[Law2Doc]

Your GPA is going to hurt you, and you have a lot of very good schools on your list: the UCs, Stanford, Harvard, U Mich, U Penn, etc. 34 schools is a lot to apply to, so I would recommend cutting out a few of the top schools.

I would tend to agree with this. You have a decent shot at "med school" but maybe not top med schools. Coming from CA with a 3.1 will haunt you (as I suspect you know based on the number of schools listed). Grad GPA helps, but never erases an undergrad GPA, which unfortunately tends to be counted more heavilly. Consider dumping a bunch of the top 20 schools in favor of a few lower ranked places. You simply don't have the numbers for some of the places on your list.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

I would tend to agree with this. You have a decent shot at "med school" but maybe not top med schools. Coming from CA with a 3.1 will haunt you (as I suspect you know based on the number of schools listed). Grad GPA helps, but never erases an undergrad GPA, which unfortunately tends to be counted more heavilly. Consider dumping a bunch of the top 20 schools in favor of a few lower ranked places. You simply don't have the numbers for some of the places on your list.

The thing is, though, that the OP's GPA is from MIT. What I've found is that, very often, it's the top-tier medical schools that give "school of origin" special consideration in admissions. In some ways it's total b.s., in that it just propagates the Ivy/Elite system. However, it may very well work to the OP's advantage, so I think that s/he ought to give it a shot...

 

[alwaysaangel]

LOL, if you're (1) interested in primary care or something non-researchy and (2) just want to get in *somewhere,* then why on earth are Harvard, Stanford, and U Penn on your list? C'mon (wo)man, at least give it to us straight. 😀

But as regards your chances, you should definitely take Stanford, U of Wash, Wash U of SL, and Wake Forest off your list:
1) Stanford is explicit that they are looking for physician-educators who will become researchers and professors. If that's not you, don't bother-- unless you're prepared totally lie your way through your secondary and your interview (not a good idea).
2) U of Wash will basically only take Wash residents-- they only make exceptions for URMs. So unless you're a URM, don't bother.
3) Wash U of SL is famous for being a total number *****. Your UG GPA will almost certainly disqualify you from consideration there.
4) Wake Forest has very strict OOS GPA cut-offs. They told me point-blank that the reason I wasn't given a secondary last year was that my GPA wasn't high enough-- and yet, my GPA was in the low "A" range.

I will, say, though, that a background like yours will potentially be attractive to more "creative" admissions offices like Harvard. Also, have you considered adding Yale? They like candidates with more storied backgrounds, as well.

Good luck to you!
[still chuckling that the person who just wants to get in *somewhere* is applying to Harvard]

I was gonna write a response, but then I realized everything I was going to say is right here - completely agree.

 

[moomix906]

The thing is, though, that the OP's GPA is from MIT. What I've found is that, very often, it's the top-tier medical schools that give "school of origin" special consideration in admissions. In some ways it's total b.s., in that it just propagates the Ivy/Elite system. However, it may very well work to the OP's advantage, so I think that s/he ought to give it a shot...

i actually disagree with this point. While it may be true that school of origin is considered, and even given significant weight, i'm sure there will be more than enough MIT applicants with 3.5 or better applying to the top schools too - you have to remember you're competeing against them probably first and foremost. I went to Ivy undergrad without much grade inflation (B avg), and people I know with a 3.1 were warned that their chances at any MD school were rough. Of course, MIT is well known for its difficulty, so the OP should get some bump, just remember to count all the fellow MIT'ers with stellar GPA's. If you look at mdapplicants (I know, not a good sample whatever), but plenty of people from MIT have 3.6, 3.7, better, people with 3.4 or lower were all bounced from the top schools.

Also, I second with everyone concerning lack of interest in research. Why all these top schools if your interest in primary care? WashU, Penn, Northwestern, Pitt, Case, Duke, Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, Baylor, I would reasonably say all these schools are really research focused, and their avg numbers are really too high to warrant applicantions - I would choose a few you really like and just drop the rest. Also, I think your Michigan schools and UWash are not a good choice - I think UMich/UWash has a OOS gpa cutoff, and Michigan state I dont think really takes OOS kids. I would also drop NYU, they are all about high numbers. Brown you really need an 'in', some kind of connection to the school or a top notch application.
I know its tricky to find 'safeties' for cali residents, but I think you should really drop most of these schools and add on many more schools that emphasize clinical education and are closer within GPA range. Also, ask around or search to see which schools are friendly to nontraditionals who have been away from school for a while

 

[Law2Doc]

While it may be true that school of origin is considered, and even given significant weight, i'm sure there will be more than enough MIT applicants with 3.5 or better applying to the top schools too - you have to remember you're competeing against them probably first and foremost.

Strongly agree with this. Also bear in mind that we aren't talking about a 3.3-3.4 student coming from MIT, in which case perhaps a bit of leeway puts you on target for a few top schools, but a 3.1. And apparently not a hard science grad degree or SMP, but an MPH. So I would suggest that while the OP should apply to a few top schools, it really pays to apply broadly (in terms of rank) because I think the 3.1 is going to hurt at a LOT of places. It's just too far from the pack at the top schools (and even some next level type schools). But as I suggested above, the OP might have a shot someplace if the net is cast wide enough.

 

[nka1985]

Add some schools that are a little safer bet: NYMC, Drexel, Ros Franklin, Albany, Virginia Commonwealth, etc.

 

[TopVeggie]

Thanks for everyone's help so far!!

I know this is ridiculous. I feel ridiculous sometimes for even considering this with my GPA, but MIT reports that the range of acceptances for 2006 was 3.1-4.0, so I'm still pumped.

I will, say, though, that a background like yours will potentially be attractive to more "creative" admissions offices like Harvard. Also, have you considered adding Yale? They like candidates with more storied backgrounds, as well.

Good luck to you!
[still chuckling that the person who just wants to get in *somewhere* is applying to Harvard]

That's actually exactly why I'm applying to places like Harvard-- as you say, with my background the 'creative' admissions offices may bite.

This is now what I'm trying to find out:

1. Which schools have creative admissions offices?

and

Also, ask around or search to see which schools are friendly to nontraditionals who have been away from school for a while

This is also what I'm trying to find out:

2. Which schools are friendly to nontraditionals?

and

I think you should really drop most of these schools and add on many more schools that emphasize clinical education...

This is also what I'm trying to find out:

3. Which schools emphasize clinical education?

How do you all even find out this sort of information? It doesn't really seem to be in MSAR...

 

[boodthedog]

Have you considered going DO, especially with the primary care interest? That MCAT will make up for the gpa at top programs. Please no one take this as bait for a vs. argument.

 

[JimT30]

Thanks for everyone's help so far!!

I know this is ridiculous. I feel ridiculous sometimes for even considering this with my GPA, but MIT reports that the range of acceptances for 2006 was 3.1-4.0, so I'm still pumped.


I think you failed to click on this link, it eliminates most of your schools.

http://web.mit.edu/career/www/preprof/2006top25.pdf

 

[moomix906]

Thanks for everyone's help so far!!

I know this is ridiculous. I feel ridiculous sometimes for even considering this with my GPA, but MIT reports that the range of acceptances for 2006 was 3.1-4.0, so I'm still pumped.



That's actually exactly why I'm applying to places like Harvard-- as you say, with my background the 'creative' admissions offices may bite.

This is now what I'm trying to find out:

1. Which schools have creative admissions offices?

and



This is also what I'm trying to find out:

2. Which schools are friendly to nontraditionals?

and



This is also what I'm trying to find out:

3. Which schools emphasize clinical education?

How do you all even find out this sort of information? It doesn't really seem to be in MSAR...

well yes, they say 3.1-4.0. But they didn't say WHERE the 3.1 kids were accepted.

1. I've never heard of Harvard's adcom being 'creative'. Everyone I know accepted there was straight off the books in terms of resume. Of course, like all elite private schools, they love kids who have very different experiences, but bear in mind these 'diverse experiences' are ones that practically always included serious research and very high numbers. Harvard has enough people that they don't have to pick people with unbalanced applications

2. Out of all my interviews, Pitt, OSU were the only two schools that had plenty of students that had been away from school significantly longer than a year. Penn, Case also had a few of postbacc people. Unfortunately I don't know much else

3. You won't find this anywhere really, except word of mouth. SDN is really your best resource. I think it is a safe assumption that any school that is well ranked by USNews is research focused, of course you have exceptions like Mayo and UWash. I dunno, the schools you applied to say suggest one thing, and what you're saying now suggests another. Are you interested in academic medicine and doing research in med school? Cause right now thats what you're applying for.

 

[TopVeggie]

Are you interested in academic medicine and doing research in med school? Cause right now thats what you're applying for.

I haven't actually submitted the app yet, so that was really totally tentative because I had no idea where to start. I'm really interested in clinical work!!

 

[Law2Doc]

I haven't actually submitted the app yet, so that was really totally tentative because I had no idea where to start. I'm really interested in clinical work!!

All med schools place a lot of students into "clinical work" so that doesn't really narrow things down. But the top schools usually like to see some interest in research/academia as well because that is where most of their money comes from. What I think many of us are saying is that you need to hedge your bets and swap a bunch of your top schools in favor of not so top schools that you will actually have a shot at with your lackluster GPA. I am concerned that you are putting more weight on your undergrad pedigree and MPH than adcoms will. Those things probably give you a shot at a med school, but not necessarilly one of the best med schools. Good luck.

 

[proclivity]

I haven't actually submitted the app yet, so that was really totally tentative because I had no idea where to start. I'm really interested in clinical work!!

I say go ahead and throw some reaches in there.....after all, it's only money, eh?

I'm gonna have to go ahead and say (s)he's got a pretty darn good shot, MIT degree with a B/B+ average, A- grad GPA with MPH degree, designs hospitals....that is pretty darn cool, I must say.

MCAT is rockin in all respects, 90+ percentile on all counts.

I say you get many a secondary application.

Good luck to ya.



come on all, this may be one of those outliers....after all the avg GPA for admittance is 3.6-3.7 for a reason.....it's an average.

 

[Law2Doc]

come on all, this may be one of those outliers....after all the avg GPA for admittance is 3.6-3.7 for a reason.....it's an average.

There will always be exceptions to the rule, but you don't gamble on being the exception, you expect to be the rule. It is foolhardy not to add some more reasonable chances to a very topheavy list of schools as this.