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[brc1123]

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[M&L]

We need more info . Is it residency ? What specialty ? What factors are important to you? Etc . There is so much that goes into rank !

 

[Billiam95]

Have you ever been to New Orleans? Would strongly caution you to consider the city before deciding where to rank Tulane.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Have you ever been to New Orleans? Would strongly caution you to consider the city before deciding where to rank Tulane.

What’s wrong with New Orleans? 🤨

 

[Billiam95]

Terrible crime (one of the highest levels of violent crime per capita in the US, increasingly regular shootings/stabbings/slashing in 'safe' tourist areas, string of unsolved murders on I-10 as it passes through the city, NOPD is short several hundred officers and at one time had <35 officers on shift for a city of a quarter million people), high rent/home prices, bad traffic that makes commuting in difficult, horrendous roads, and poor city services (water and electricity) to name a few. I know a lot of major cities in the US have similar issues, but New Orleans is truly spiraling out of control and is almost unrecognizable to people who visited 10, or even 5 years ago.
Some people love the city, but I would simply advise people to look into living in the city before committing to live in it for 3-7 years.
/end of soap box

 

[DarkBluMage]

Terrible crime (one of the highest levels of violent crime per capita in the US, increasingly regular shootings/stabbings/slashing in 'safe' tourist areas, string of unsolved murders on I-10 as it passes through the city, NOPD is short several hundred officers and at one time had <35 officers on shift for a city of a quarter million people), high rent/home prices, bad traffic that makes commuting in difficult, horrendous roads, and poor city services (water and electricity) to name a few. I know a lot of major cities in the US have similar issues, but New Orleans is truly spiraling out of control and is almost unrecognizable to people who visited 10, or even 5 years ago.
Some people love the city, but I would simply advise people to look into living in the city before committing to live in it for 3-7 years.
/end of soap box

I lived there for 7 years. It’s not the end of the world to live in New Orleans during residency. NYC is a cesspool and I don’t see anyone advocating for considering the city before ranking NY programs 🙄

 

[Billiam95]

Never said it was the end of the world, mentioned that some people enjoy living in NOLA, and stated that it was just my opinion.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

I lived there for 7 years. It’s not the end of the world to live in New Orleans during residency. NYC is a cesspool and I don’t see anyone advocating for considering the city before ranking NY programs 🙄

I'm glad people think that about NYC we could use less people

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

Dear SDN,

Can you please help me rank between these programs. I don't have any specific order yet. Thanks!

Brown

CCF

NYU Brooklyn Community Program

George Washington University

Zucker School of Medicine Northshore Health/LIJ

Medical College of Wisconsin

University of Rochester

Tulane

Loyola

Rush

University of Maryland

University of Illinois

University of Texas Galveston

Pennsylvania Hospital

University of Vermont

Westchester Medical Center

Maine Medical Center

You'll need to do some research. The AAMC Residency Explorer tool is somewhat helpful. Doximity might provide you some insights on the different programs. I'm sure there are other on-line sources that could at least give you more information than you have currently. Just be cautious --- like with everything else on-line, separating reality from spin or outright falsehoods takes some work. In the end, what's best for you is where you think you will fit best and be successful and happy.

 

[Lawpy]

Dear SDN,

Can you please help me rank between these programs. I don't have any specific order yet. Thanks!

Brown

CCF

NYU Brooklyn Community Program

George Washington University

Zucker School of Medicine Northshore Health/LIJ

Medical College of Wisconsin

University of Rochester

Tulane

Loyola

Rush

University of Maryland

University of Illinois

University of Texas Galveston

Pennsylvania Hospital

University of Vermont

Westchester Medical Center

Maine Medical Center

I suggest making a list of criteria that matter to you, whether they are prestige, desire to match in a certain fellowship, location, general environment that looked right for you etc etc and score each program based on how they fare for your criteria. Then sort the programs from highest to lowest scores and there’s your rank list

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Personally, I would avoid big city programs in general for residency.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

Personally, I would avoid big city programs in general for residency.

Out of curiosity, why?

I figure in big city programs (at academic centers at least) you'd get to see a wide range of interesting pathology, but may not get to do as much due to hyper-specialization at these centers. Is your argument for rural you get to do more since there's less to work with?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Out of curiosity, why?

I figure in big city programs (at academic centers at least) you'd get to see a wide range of interesting pathology, but may not get to do as much due to hyper-specialization at these centers. Is your argument for rural you get to do more since there's less to work with?

Many reasons really, but it all comes down to prioritizing my mental health. Big city programs serving huge metropolitan areas of several million people often time tend to overwork their residents, and some are even overtly malignant programs. And for how expensive the cost of living is in those areas, sometimes those residents are severely under compensated compared to those in medium/smaller sized cities. Yes, there are advantages like you said, but when I put those advantages on the balance (for my specialty at least), the negatives outweigh the positives by far if you ask me.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Out of curiosity, why?

I figure in big city programs (at academic centers at least) you'd get to see a wide range of interesting pathology, but may not get to do as much due to hyper-specialization at these centers. Is your argument for rural you get to do more since there's less to work with?

Well at least in cities like new york the nurses and such tend to be unionized which is a huge con for resident and maybe even attending physicians

 

[mistafab]

We can't rank list for you bro.

Come up with a system of what things you care about, put your thoughts on a spreadsheet, and decide for yourself.

 

[Zendo]

Dear SDN,

Can you please help me rank between these programs. I don't have any specific order yet. Thanks!

Brown

CCF

NYU Brooklyn Community Program

George Washington University

Zucker School of Medicine Northshore Health/LIJ

Medical College of Wisconsin

University of Rochester

Tulane

Loyola

Rush

University of Maryland

University of Illinois

University of Texas Galveston

Pennsylvania Hospital

University of Vermont

Westchester Medical Center

Maine Medical Center

@Deecee2DO

 

[Deecee2DO]

Could anyone compare Brown to Cleveland Clinic for IM in terms of quality? I am considering ranking these highly. Thanks

Brown and CCF are roughly equal in terms of fellowship match and prestige maybe CCF has a slight edge. Brown is very family like culture little more cushy. I interviewed at both and liked Brown better (i ranked Brown #1 so Im biased but still). overall they are similar tier

 

[Deecee2DO]

@Deecee2DO

@brc1123 What are your priorities? Culture/qol? prestige? location? schedule? based on tier/prestige/fellowship match alone i ranked them numbered at the bottom of this post. Also are you a DO? these are some incredibly impressive interviews if so

I interviewed at Brown Tulane and CCF. Tulane had a probation issue (duty hrs i believe-and some racism thing which I think was overhyped) so I ranked them next to last and also I hated NOLA and would never want to live there (high crime and dirty). The program of tulane itself all the residents were chill and fun and my interview day was awesome. Brown was amazing (culture was very very family oriented and cush and the QOL/schedule is pretty laid back-everyone including admin m/leadership and residents were all over the top nice and kind). I ranked Brown #1 ended up matching my #3 and im happy where i am but Brown was top of my list for many reasons-Providence is also an awesome city and great for restaurants/night life and decent for dating if you are single. CCF has an obviously great rep-i got a mixed bag about QOL on interview day some residents said the schedule was a good balance and they didnt feel overworked or burned out and others said it was an issue. Overall my interview experience at CCF was pretty good-everyone was nice and kind and the residents i spoke with were super friendly. Cleveland the city kinda sucks imo lol but everyones different. I also thought the class size was too big for me. CCF great fellowship match though

1. Brown/CCF
2. Rush/Tulane/Rochester/Maryland
3. UVM/GW/Zucker/Loyola
4. The rest

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

What’s wrong with New Orleans? 🤨

Hurricanes should be in your differential. They had a terrible 2 yrs ago.

From their website:

 

[DarkBluMage]

Hurricanes should be in your differential. They had a terrible 2 yrs ago.

From their website:
View attachment 364947

Don’t go anywhere down south then. Hurricanes are a part of life

 

[Deecee2DO]

Terrible crime (one of the highest levels of violent crime per capita in the US, increasingly regular shootings/stabbings/slashing in 'safe' tourist areas, string of unsolved murders on I-10 as it passes through the city, NOPD is short several hundred officers and at one time had <35 officers on shift for a city of a quarter million people), high rent/home prices, bad traffic that makes commuting in difficult, horrendous roads, and poor city services (water and electricity) to name a few. I know a lot of major cities in the US have similar issues, but New Orleans is truly spiraling out of control and is almost unrecognizable to people who visited 10, or even 5 years ago.
Some people love the city, but I would simply advise people to look into living in the city before committing to live in it for 3-7 years.
/end of soap box

This is literally me when i intereviewed at Tulane. I almost put it top 5 rank because I loved interview day. I went on vaca with a few friends there to check it out to see if I could even live there. I wanted to leave after 30 mins it was horrible and would never ever want to live in that dump of a city

 

[Kierkegaard's Bud]

Don’t go anywhere down south then. Hurricanes are a part of life

All I’m saying is I don’t want to be like the case below

 

[mistafab]

Lot of hate against New Orleans in this thread lol. Not everyone's cup of tea but it is a pretty badass place. It is Vegas but with actual culture. The history is amazing. The food is perfection. The strangeness, weirdness, voodoo of the small town is straight up amazing. The downtown is a party every day, every minute, every hour. There is world class, live music all year at multiple locations, all day. There is a festival every week. Always something to actually do.

New Orleans on paper looks like a city, but it feels like a town. A very small town with exception of Mardi Gras, where the population triples/quadruples for a month. The culture in the medical programs is very different than at other places FYI. Work hard play hard means something different in NOLA.

Must be street smart to enter. It is definitely not safe - but it can definitely be a blast... sometimes from a gun so watch your back - and do not go out alone at night.

Once again, not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[DarkBluMage]

Lot of hate against New Orleans in this thread lol. Not everyone's cup of tea but it is a pretty badass place. It is Vegas but with actual culture. The history is amazing. The food is perfection. The strangeness, weirdness, voodoo of the small town is straight up amazing. The downtown is a party every day, every minute, every hour. There is world class, live music all year at multiple locations, all day. There is a festival every week. Always something to actually do.

New Orleans on paper looks like a city, but it feels like a town. A very small town with exception of Mardi Gras, where the population triples/quadruples for a month. The culture in the medical programs is very different than at other places FYI. Work hard play hard means something different in NOLA.

Must be street smart to enter. It is definitely not safe - but it can definitely be a blast... sometimes from a gun so watch your back - and do not go out alone at night.

Once again, not everyone's cup of tea.

It amazes me that the same people that love NYC hate on New Orleans for reasons they magically don’t hate on New York for. Lmbo pure hilarity.

 

[AnonymousDoctorGuyPerson]

It amazes me that the same people that love NYC hate on New Orleans for reasons they magically don’t hate on New York for. Lmbo pure hilarity.

They're probably from the ritzy areas, "I dont take the subway" crowd. Love NYC and NOLA, they both got the vibes mistafab was mentioning that is my cup of tea.

Also it's an unfortunate new york personality quirk, but we're designed to **** on any other place that calls itself a city

 

[Deecee2DO]

Thanks for the help.
@Deecee2DO I was wondering how you decided on your 2 and 3 ranks. I felt like GW and Zucker might be stronger than Tulane and Marlyand for example but it is a little hard to tell.
Also what does everyone think if I added UTSW to the list? Can anyone tell me about this program and where they would rank it in terms of quality.
Looking for a program with good opportunities for fellowship but also cushy if possible.
Thanks again

UTSW rumors of toxicity but again only rumors and i know for sure they work their residents very very hard. Maryland and Tulane are higher tier than GW and much higher tier than Zucker

 

[Green_Goose]

Thanks for the help.
@Deecee2DO I was wondering how you decided on your 2 and 3 ranks. I felt like GW and Zucker might be stronger than Tulane and Marlyand for example but it is a little hard to tell.
Also what does everyone think if I added UTSW to the list? Can anyone tell me about this program and where they would rank it in terms of quality.
Looking for a program with good opportunities for fellowship but also cushy if possible.
Thanks again

UTSW is pretty much alone among its peers reputation-wise for having so many 28 hour calls. The quality of training is definitely going to be very solid, but you will be worked to the bone. They don't mess around at Parkland - if you want a cushy program, UTSW is not it. Besides, you can get great IM training at a number of places, without the added headache of frequent Q5 overnight call. They definitely have a very strong fellowship match though, and plenty of opportunities for research.

 

[Deecee2DO]

UTSW is pretty much alone among its peers reputation-wise for having so many 28 hour calls. The quality of training is definitely going to be very solid, but you will be worked to the bone. They don't mess around at Parkland - if you want a cushy program, UTSW is not it. Besides, you can get great IM training at a number of places, without the added headache of frequent Q5 overnight call. They definitely have a very strong fellowship match though, and plenty of opportunities for research.

Couldnt have said it better myself. UTSW IM res is brutally challenging. So much call and long hours could train at a place like Northwestern or Cornell which are similar tier with great training and slightly better hours

 

[Dantes]

I wouldn't consider FREIDA hours accurate. Usually you can ask the residents their inpatient schedule and call on interviews to get a rough estimate.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Thanks for the input.
I was looking at FREIDA and both Brown and UTSW seem to have the same kind of schedules in terms of hours there.
In fact, it says that Brown residents actually work about 62 hours per week on average and UTSW is 55. Also you seem to be able to have the next day off after call at UTSW, at least during general medicine blocks. Do you think that UTSW has changed its schedule and resident work hours recently de to the ACGME guidelines or would you still consider it a more challenging program? Also could anyone comment on the culture of UTSW IM residency? Is it a more supportive program or could it be considered malignant? I've seen some mixed reviews on previous sdn posts.

UTSW residents I can almost guarantee you work way more than 55 hrs. Brown is historically much more cush than UTSW in both hours and culture. Brown is cushy

 

[Zendo]

UTSW residents I can almost guarantee you work way more than 55 hrs. Brown is historically much more cush than UTSW in both hours and culture. Brown is cushy

Do you know what other programs are known to have a nice quality of life?

 

[Deecee2DO]

Do you know what other programs are known to have a nice quality of life?

Im sure there are plenty of no-name community programs out there with great qol but as far as the namebrand academic programs go, in addition to Brown (traditional schedule), Dartmouth (traditional schedule) Mayo (4+4) Georgetown (4+2+2) and UVA (3+1) are notorious for being more on cushy side. Their leadership values QOL and environments are non-toxic and supportive. I think most of these programs (not sure about Mayo) have five weeks of vacation with an additional week between intern yr and PGY2. Dartmouth has 6 weeks if you include flex days and you have lots of elective time

 

[Green_Goose]

Rush is also supposed to be cush