FP opinionis about George Floyd cause of death

[Allegri]

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I am interested in what the FP's here think about the Floyd case and trial. The medical examiner apparently called the cause of death "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." Sounds quite vague and allows for contributing factors of drugs on board and existing heart disease. Apparently the second opinion by Baden used the term "asphyxia," which seems to go further in implicating the neck compression alone. Is Baden's view warranted? I don't think he lists any physical evidence of strangulation. Are these 2 opinions substantially different or not?
And now we have some pulmonologist acting like he knows exactly what happened, including a "PEA arrhythmia."

 

[gbwillner]

I'm no FP, (some on here are), but IMO the things you state support homicide as manner of death. Is there a distinction between the two opinions? I don't see them as contradictory.

 

[Allegri]

Yes, the two autopsy reports both call the manner homicide. No controversy there. It's very interesting how far the pulmonologist is willing to go in the details of the event, compared with the pathologist who only says "cardiopulmonary arrest."

 

[MotherofDragonflies]

Dr. Melinek did a great break down of the DC’s last summer. Her article can be found HERE. Your question/misconception is cleared up there.

Dr. Happy is also live tweeting (or whatever it’s called) on Twitter along with the trial. If you’re interested in seeing a forensic pathologists comments I suggest you head there.

 

[Allegri]

Thanks for that article. I still think the term "cardiopulmonary arrest" is so nonspecific that it basically describes all death. So the ME cause of death essentially reads as "death complicating subdual by law enforcement." If this was clearly due to asphyxia, why not specifically state that? FP should be the star of this trial, not some pulmonologist simply because he's willing to be specific (overly so, probably).

 

[deleted314957]

Well, I am a FP and any FP who shoots their mouth off in public about cause, manner and mechanism of death who did not do the autopsy, evaluate the circumstances surrounding the death and review all the tox data is just guessing.
As an aside, in my experience most FP’s get into trouble because they want to be a big shot and get on tv and be a famous “medical examiner to the stars”, and they cannot keep their mouths shut (Dr.’s Mike B. and Cyril W. come to mind) and have never met a news camera
they don’t like.

 

[Iceman24]

Thanks for that article. I still think the term "cardiopulmonary arrest" is so nonspecific that it basically describes all death. So the ME cause of death essentially reads as "death complicating subdual by law enforcement." If this was clearly due to asphyxia, why not specifically state that?

You are very much correct.
It wasn't clearly due to asphyxia, of course, and death certificate/autopsy report is explaining that.
I'm surprised AB put "cardiopulmonary arrest" on DC, especially considering how awesome he handle the rest of the case.

 

[gbwillner]

You are very much correct.
It wasn't clearly due to asphyxia, of course, and death certificate/autopsy report is explaining that.
I'm surprised AB put "cardiopulmonary arrest" on DC, especially considering how awesome he handle the rest of the case.

Probably a CYA moment, given how high-profile the case is.

 

[PathRes123]

FWIW:

With George Floyd, a Raging Debate Over Bias in the Science of Death (Published 2021)

Critics say the profession of forensic pathology has been slow to acknowledge how big a role bias may play in decisions such as whether to classify a death in police custody as a homicide.

www.nytimes.com

 

[deleted314957]

FWIW:

With George Floyd, a Raging Debate Over Bias in the Science of Death (Published 2021)

Critics say the profession of forensic pathology has been slow to acknowledge how big a role bias may play in decisions such as whether to classify a death in police custody as a homicide.

www.nytimes.com

Total nonsense. The only ones with the bias are the “pathologists to the stars” like Dr. Michael B. and Dr. Cyril W. who’s only way to make a living is to be professional witnesses.
Whoever pays them gets whatever opinion they want. And I am speaking as a boarded FP who has seen it.

 

[HmanPath]

A thorough and well written rebuttal to the poorly done "bias" article cited by the NYT.

Bias in Assessing Cognitive Bias in Forensic Pathology: The Dror Nevada Death Certificate "Study"

A blog about biases in the conduct, interpretation, and application of evidence in medicine

www.medicalevidenceblog.com