Free and Public or Private and Pricey? Help!

[guichita]

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Hi folks! It's such an exciting time, but I really need help with my decision here. I am accepted to Columbia's Population and Family Health/Sexuality and Reproductive MPH as well as U Minnesota's MCH MPH.

Minneosta has offered me a training grant that would cover the cost of tuition for the first year, as well as guarantee me in state tuition next year with the option of reapplying for grants. Their program is lovely, but I find the MCH research to be thin compared to Columbia. Still, I feel capable of developing and working on a project independently through their field experience. (I'm interested in traditional birth attendant training in Latin America/ access to emergency obstetric care and safe abortion)

Columbia has offered me about 5 grand in grants, with 32000 in loans. ECA there is 70000 for two years, I believe. So I'd be looking at a significant amount of debt (add to this the cost of living in NYC). Still, the research centers and active work being done on EmOC are amaaaaaaazing and so rich and glorious!

Ultimately its also a question of the value of the Ivy brand-- my undergrad is from Harvard and I wonder if I overestimate the importance of fancy shmancy names, when really it is hard work and ingenuity that lead you to distinction.

What do you say SDNers? Faced with a similar dilemma, would you take the public money or the private debt?

 

[JMM051]

I would take the money from Minnesota. Without question.

Minnesota is a great school and from what I have heard they have a good deal of opportunities there.

To graduate with little of debt in a quality program-take the money.

 

[Epi19]

Being a public vs. a private school doesn't really have much to do with a strength of a program. Have you looked at the public health school rankings? http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ols/top-health-schools/public-health-rankings
Rankings aren't the be all end all but it might give you a better idea of things. If you were comparing Columbia to an unaccredited school that gave you full funding- I might think twice. But Minnesota is a well respected public health school- I would definitely choose them over Columbia based on the debt Columbia would leave you with!

 

[healthdisparity]

I would take the money from Minnesota. Without question.

Minnesota is a great school and from what I have heard they have a good deal of opportunities there.

To graduate with little of debt in a quality program-take the money.

+1

If it even matters, your undergraduate degree has enough "Ivy star power" to influence any potential employer. Take the free education from Minnesota, enjoy Minneapolis (which happens to be a fairly large, diverse city), and move to New York following graduation.

As a caveat, if your heart is utterly set on Columbia, enroll there. No fellow SDNer has to live with the constant thought of you thinking what could have been. You're very fortunate to be in such a predicament, both great schools. Cheers.

 

[czulueta]

Yeah, I'm facing the same dilemma. My choice is between San Diego St (free tuition and in-state) and Boston University (65k for 3-4 semesters). I'm leaning towards SDSU but I feel that BU is more recognized for their school of public health.

 

[Veggie Monster]

Minnesota. 👍👍👍

 

[Stories]

Free sounds like a winner in my book.

 

[werd814]

Free sounds like a winner in my book.

Agreed. Minnesota has a baller reputation in public health, and if you're at all interested in staying in the area, a UMn degree is like gold in them there parts. Take the monies!

esPECIALLY if you have an AB/ScB from Harvard. That's the money-maker right there.

I know it never feels that easy though... I've been in this spot twice. Ugh. You can't go wrong one way or the other, but $70k is a lot of debt to assume for a public service oriented degree IMHO.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[MolBio]

Minnesota. 👍👍👍

Minnesota has a strong program. Haven't you seen Contagion?

Seriously though, take the money. Unless you have an MD, I forbid you to go 70k into debt.

 

[phskier]

So glad this thread got started! For me I am trying to decide between Minnesota, Columbia, and Yale. Lucky for me, Minnesota would be in state tuition! Whereas the others have a bit of a price tag... especially with little to no scholarships. In other words I could leave one school with little to no debt possibly and the others lets say a lot, especially when those bad boys are accruing interest at 6.8%.

I think during my decision making process I've been giving a little too much power to the ivy name. To be honest though, It's hard to see past names of institutions when making these choices. For me I want to leave grad school with a skill set that will allow me to be successful. I think all these schools would be able to do that. Sometimes it comes down to the money when all else is "relatively" equal.

All and all I'ts good to see Minnesota getting some love finally!

 

[Veritas86]

On a related tangent, what's the consensus on the "big name" schools only really mattering for prestige positions in academia or research?

 

[Veggie Monster]

Minnesota has a strong program. Haven't you seen Contagion?

Seriously though, take the money. Unless you have an MD, I forbid you to go 70k into debt.

o when i saw contagion, i was like, "haillll, yeahhhhhh, go minnesota!"

if i werent from the midwest, i would have applied to minnesota. but i just want a change of view. yeah, dwag?

 

[EpiWin]

On a related tangent, what's the consensus on the "big name" schools only really mattering for prestige positions in academia or research?

From what I've heard, the big names do have sway when going into academia. Whether it's warranted or not is a whole different story.

@Veggie Monster: my first thought when I read your post was "ohhhh someone started day drinking early." But then I was all "nahhhh this seems pretty normal"

 

[Stories]

On a related tangent, what's the consensus on the "big name" schools only really mattering for prestige positions in academia or research?

I honestly believe it's a self selection process. If you look at the most ambitious people, they tend to selective choose to apply and attend "big name" schools. Or do schools create ambitious people? Causal link? Tough to say 😀 (Epi people better be getting a kick out of this otherwise my life is wasted!)

That said, you look at educational history of professors, you'll see that more than schools they attended, you'll see more "big name" post-doctoral fellowships than schools more often than not.

Know what's more important than school name? Go to this website: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/, and type in a person's name. That's what gets you a good job in academia and research 🙂

 

[EpiWin]

Causal link? Tough to say 😀 (Epi people better be getting a kick out of this otherwise my life is wasted!)

SPEAKING OF EPI JOKES: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2560#comic

 

[guichita]

"esPECIALLY if you have an AB/ScB from Harvard. That's the money-maker right there."


Even if that AB is in Romance Literature and Language? Golly it seemed like a good idea at the time but now on my resume it looks like I spent four years laying on a divan and sipping fine port.

I need to get the MPH and see how I swim before I can commit to the idea of wanting to pursue a PhD, but it is something that I'm considering. Does this change anyone's view on Columbia v. Minn? So far it is incredibly heartening to see how one-sided the response is! Thank you everyone for your responses!

 

[JMM051]

Even with the PhD a possibility, I am still standing behind Minnesota.

 

[werd814]

Even with the PhD a possibility, I am still standing behind Minnesota.

Especially with the prospect of a PhD. Doctoral admissions is far more about your interest and what you've done that verifies this interest. Take me for example, I am fairly certain that my success in PhD apps has very little to do with my bachelors... not a romance lit major, but a poor GPA and no super-related research... rather I believe it had everything to do with the research I did during my MPH, the TA position I held, and the internship I had. Hope that helps!

Ultimately, I think you need to optimize "how much you like each program/ quality of life" "cost" and "research/internships/course opportunities." I, myself, would have a very hard time turning down full ride at UMn for 70k in debt at Columbia (i.e. i could never do it).

Good luck!

 

[Stories]

Especially with the prospect of a PhD. Doctoral admissions is far more about your interest and what you've done that verifies this interest. Take me for example, I am fairly certain that my success in PhD apps has very little to do with my bachelors... not a romance lit major, but a poor GPA and no super-related research... rather I believe it had everything to do with the research I did during my MPH, the TA position I held, and the internship I had. Hope that helps!

Ultimately, I think you need to optimize "how much you like each program/ quality of life" "cost" and "research/internships/course opportunities." I, myself, would have a very hard time turning down full ride at UMn for 70k in debt at Columbia (i.e. i could never do it).

Good luck!

werd brings up a great point.

One more major token: in a world of uncertainty, why not take a guarantee? No debt.

 

[Epi19]

When you all say "big name" schools do you mean in terms of the school's undergrad reputation or its public health reputation? For example, if you were deciding between Brown (which is a lesser known in public health but an ivy) over U Washington (well known in public health) for your degree in public health are you all saying that going to Brown would get you further in academia because its an ivy?

 

[Plane]

When you all say "big name" schools do you mean in terms of the school's undergrad reputation or its public health reputation? For example, if you were deciding between Brown (which is a lesser known in public health but an ivy) over U Washington (well known in public health) for your degree in public health are you all saying that going to Brown would get you further in academia because its an ivy?

This is something I asked in another thread, but with the intention of gaining admission into medical school. Just how familiar are doctoral admissions committees and med committees with the "field" of public health institutions?

 

[mikan]

Ultimately its also a question of the value of the Ivy brand-- my undergrad is from Harvard and I wonder if I overestimate the importance of fancy shmancy names, when really it is hard work and ingenuity that lead you to distinction.

Facing a similar dilemma. Columbia vs. UNC-Chapel Hill.

For me it's hard to give up Columbia because of its Ivy League prestige+connections, the perceived thrill of living in NYC (I've never been to the US), possibly more job opportunities (since NYC is home to many NGO headquarters).

Good luck & let us know your final decision!

 

[Stories]

When you all say "big name" schools do you mean in terms of the school's undergrad reputation or its public health reputation? For example, if you were deciding between Brown (which is a lesser known in public health but an ivy) over U Washington (well known in public health) for your degree in public health are you all saying that going to Brown would get you further in academia because its an ivy?

No. Because even in the undergrad reputation, I'd stick both schools in a similar mold. UW is one of the elite public universities in the country and right up there with any Ivy. Nobody would scoff at a person who came out of UW.

And your research portfolio >>>>>>>>>>> name of your grad school. Not every student a school produces is going to be a great researcher. Just as being a Harvard grad does not guarantee you'll find success in life, you'll find plenty of researchers that went to schools with middling reputations but are brilliant researchers (for instance, J Craig Venter went to UCSD for his PhD and look at him now, he's a millionaire and world renowned scientist).

This is something I asked in another thread, but with the intention of gaining admission into medical school. Just how familiar are doctoral admissions committees and med committees with the "field" of public health institutions?

Medical schools couldn't careless about where you did a PH degree. It simply adds to your CV and makes you a more interesting/diverse candidate. But a MPH won't make you more desirable if your MCAT and sGPA aren't up to snuff.

Now if you end up doing a lot of research and have publications, that's another story. Research is eaten up by med school adcoms.

Facing a similar dilemma. Columbia vs. UNC-Chapel Hill.

For me it's hard to give up Columbia because of its Ivy League prestige+connections, the perceived thrill of living in NYC (I've never been to the US), possibly more job opportunities (since NYC is home to many NGO headquarters).

Good luck & let us know your final decision!

Above all else, you need to go to the program that will best set you up for success in your desired area of interest. Particularly if what you're interested in has a very narrow focus. Not all schools and departments can cater to every interest, and as a result, you may not get the training you need if you end up choosing name over the right fit.

 

[MolBio]

Facing a similar dilemma. Columbia vs. UNC-Chapel Hill.

For me it's hard to give up Columbia because of its Ivy League prestige+connections, the perceived thrill of living in NYC (I've never been to the US), possibly more job opportunities (since NYC is home to many NGO headquarters).

Good luck & let us know your final decision!

A little plug for UNC, there are some really solid NGOs based out of (or with offices in) North Carolina. Family Health International I *belive* is the largest global health NGO in the world. They have a budget of ~$350 million and they are based out of NC. Measure-evaluation, on of the best known monitoring and evaluation groups is based at UNC. Research Triangle Institute (RTI) is also right nearby. It may feel like the middle of nowhere but you should be able to make some good connections there.

NYC has a big share of head offices, but I would say the biggest center is Washington DC.

 

[Epi19]

No. Because even in the undergrad reputation, I'd stick both schools in a similar mold. UW is one of the elite public universities in the country and right up there with any Ivy. Nobody would scoff at a person who came out of UW.

And your research portfolio >>>>>>>>>>> name of your grad school. Not every student a school produces is going to be a great researcher. Just as being a Harvard grad does not guarantee you'll find success in life, you'll find plenty of researchers that went to schools with middling reputations but are brilliant researchers (for instance, J Craig Venter went to UCSD for his PhD and look at him now, he's a millionaire and world renowned scientist).



Medical schools couldn't careless about where you did a PH degree. It simply adds to your CV and makes you a more interesting/diverse candidate. But a MPH won't make you more desirable if your MCAT and sGPA aren't up to snuff.

Now if you end up doing a lot of research and have publications, that's another story. Research is eaten up by med school adcoms.



Above all else, you need to go to the program that will best set you up for success in your desired area of interest. Particularly if what you're interested in has a very narrow focus. Not all schools and departments can cater to every interest, and as a result, you may not get the training you need if you end up choosing name over the right fit.

There are some people (not me) who would actually disagree with that. I know people who consider tier 1 schools as those ranked 1-25 and tier 2 schools as those ranked 25-50. Some snobby people in my extended family were actually astounded that chose a tier 2 school over a tier 1 school for my undergrad education. I guess things like quality of life and a major in my area of interest should have been unimportant to me 😉 Plus regardless of rankings, people always seem to buy into the ivy name. But then again, I feel like those in certain fields of academia should know which schools in are good in their field.

In terms of med schools, since the PH cirriculum isn't as challenging as say upper-level undergrad bio and chem classes, so I don't think a high GPA at a good public health school will add that much more. (Everyone I know getting their MPH has above a 3.7). It's more the idea that you have an interest in public health, and like Stories said- whether or not you used this opportunity to strengthen your research skills either through published research (ideal) or through research assistantships.

 

[Stories]

There are some people (not me) who would actually disagree with that. I know people who consider tier 1 schools as those ranked 1-25 and tier 2 schools as those ranked 25-50. Some snobby people in my extended family were actually astounded that chose a tier 2 school over a tier 1 school for my undergrad education. I guess things like quality of life and a major in my area of interest should have been unimportant to me 😉 Plus regardless of rankings, people always seem to buy into the ivy name. But then again, I feel like those in certain fields of academia should know which schools in are good in their field.

In terms of med schools, since the PH cirriculum isn't as challenging as say upper-level undergrad bio and chem classes, so I don't think a high GPA at a good public health school will add that much more. (Everyone I know getting their MPH has above a 3.7). It's more the idea that you have an interest in public health, and like Stories said- whether or not you used this opportunity to strengthen your research skills either through published research (ideal) or through research assistantships.

Haha. Interesting because USNews considers about 120 schools to be Tier 1 😉

Aside from Harry Potter-esque sorting colleges, what else do I gain from going to an Ivy?

 

[guichita]

Haha. Interesting because USNews considers about 120 schools to be Tier 1 😉

Aside from Harry Potter-esque sorting colleges, what else do I gain from going to an Ivy?

A personality disorder! (just kidding I swear)

 

[2013MPH2013]

My two cents would be free and public. They clearly want you as a student to provide that type of offer and it would probably be good to see a different side of academia than Ivy League. Also, UM is a great school.