Friend switching to Psych

[Psyxh1]

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Hello,

One of my friends from my school has gone on multiple interviews for Osteopathic Internal Medicine and Family Medicine programs. She recently has had a change of heart and has decided Psychiatry is what she would like to pursue and is all but set on not ranking any of the IM and Family programs she has interviewed at(close to 12 programs). She has only taken the COMLEX series but has solid scores on both the level 1 and 2(mid 500s ) as well as a pass on the PE(CS equivalent).

Below is her dilemma in her own words:

"I am a fourth year student currently in the process of applying for internal medicine residency. However, I recently realized that my real passion is not in internal medicine, but in psychiatry. This realization comes in late at this stage of game. I wonder if you can help me with the strategy of matching.



My thoughts on game strategy are as follow

- for DO match, I submit an empty rank list and wait for scrambling. Then scramble into a osteopathic psychiatry program. I looked up the data from the past 5 years, there were range fro 9 - 12 unfilled positions each year. (https://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/aboutstats.html)

- Or I register for allopathic match, then scrambling into psychiatry program. Again, submit an empty rank list and scramble into an allopathic psychiatry program. There are about 600 unfilled psychiatry program each year. (Page 22. http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-and-Data-2015_final.pdf)"

Any ideas as to what options she has? She seems to be rather determined to not spend a year doing IM or family medicine and then transferring into Psychiatry.

 

[wolfvgang22]

She is grossly over estimating the number if unfilled PGY1 Psychiatry positions left after the match. The page she references doesn't say there are about 600 spots unfilled in any year.
Nothing wrong with trying to scramble, if she is prepared to sit out a year if it doesn't work out. She could just do a year in IM or Family. She could then look for a PGY2 psychiatry spot, having completed most of her IM, Emergency, and other rotations typically required of PGY1 Psychiatry residents. That might look a lot less fishy to psychiatry programs in my opinion.

 

[tartesos]

1 year of training, especially in im is not a waste of time for her as it would be not scrambling and sitting out a year.
She can always try and obtain a residency position next year... Now that won't make it any friends at her program, but she can be honest about it and they would understand.

That change of heart came kind of late, unfortunately.

 

[nitemagi]

Here's a Q I don't have an answer to: Is osteopathic IM training transferrable to an allopathic psych residency?

 

[Psyxh1]

1 year of training, especially in im is not a waste of time for her as it would be not scrambling and sitting out a year.
She can always try and obtain a residency position next year... Now that won't make it any friends at her program, but she can be honest about it and they would understand.

That change of heart came kind of late, unfortunately.

As of right now, she seems to be contemplating skipping out on the match and opting for scrambling into a Psychiatry position. She does NOT want to sit out a year but also is rather decided on not matching into an IM or family medicine program.

 

[Psyxh1]

1 year of training, especially in im is not a waste of time for her as it would be not scrambling and sitting out a year.
She can always try and obtain a residency position next year... Now that won't make it any friends at her program, but she can be honest about it and they would understand.

That change of heart came kind of late, unfortunately.

As of right now, she seems to be contemplating skipping out on the match and opting for scrambling into a Psychiatry position. She does NOT want to sit out a year but also is rather decided on not matching into an IM or family medicine program.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

As of right now, she seems to be contemplating skipping out on the match and opting for scrambling into a Psychiatry position. She does NOT want to sit out a year but also is rather decided on not matching into an IM or family medicine program.

She really needs to revisit that match data--last year there were only 8 unfilled programs, for 14 unfilled positions.
I'm guessing the idea of "about 600" comes from table 7--which shows 774/1353 G1 positions filled by US Allopathic Seniors. Her problem is that almost all of the rest will be filled with DOs, US citizen IMGs, and FMGs.

 

[nexus73]

One option would be to rank the the IM programs that also have a psychiatry residency at the same institution. Match into IM then try to transfer into psych as a 2nd year.

 

[Psyxh1]

It's important to remember that she is strongly considering scrambling into an OSTEOPATHIC Psychiatry spot. Is anyone here familiar with whether this is easier to do than scrambling into an allopathic Psychiatry spot? It's unfortunate for her that she decided to switch at such a late date since her average to above average COMLEX scores would have likely gotten her a number of allopathic Psychiatry interviews.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

It's important to remember that she is strongly considering scrambling into an OSTEOPATHIC Psychiatry spot. Is anyone here familiar with whether this is easier to do than scrambling into an allopathic Psychiatry spot? It's unfortunate for her that she decided to switch at such a late date since her average to above average COMLEX scores would have likely gotten her a number of allopathic Psychiatry interviews.

This is FAR easier than scrambling into psych allopathic. The general rule though is she'll get a sub par residency.

I'd recommend transitional year and then psych allopathic next year. Both osteo and allopathic transitional can transfer to an allopathic residency

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Last I checked an osteo transition year can not count for any ACGME time. Some programs are both, but be careful. I don't think anyone will know, but I think there is a good chance for a lot of quality ACGME programs not filling this round.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Last I checked an osteo transition year can not count for any ACGME time. Some programs are both, but be careful. I don't think anyone will know, but I think there is a good chance for a lot of quality ACGME programs not filling this round.

I would recommend looking into this, as of this time last year it did in fact count towards ACGME time. At least it did for Rads.
Also with the joint match business it looks like all AOA programs that have graduated a resident are "pre accredited". Best I could find on a google search is a PM&R discussion on it
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/aoa-internship-not-acceptable.1102832/

Normally I recommend staying away from AOA residencies, but in the OPs friends case she has kind of backed herself into a corner

 

[WalterDonnie]

I was told by someone who'd i consider a very credible source that DO's cant do the ACGME SOAP. So in case you were going to include this as a strategy I would look into whether you are eligible as a DO.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I was told by someone who'd i consider a very credible source that DO's cant do the ACGME SOAP. So in case you were going to include this as a strategy I would look into whether you are eligible as a DO.

Yeah, you might to rethink that "very credible" source. Not only can they do the SOAP, but an sdn DO buddy landed Brown University (fp, his desired specialty) through the soap last year.

If a DO doesn't register with the acgme they can't do the SOAP. I'm guessing that's the case your source is speaking of.

 

[WalterDonnie]

Yeah, you might to rethink that "very credible" source. Not only can they do the SOAP, but an sdn DO buddy landed Brown University (fp, his desired specialty) through the soap last year.

If a DO doesn't register with the acgme they can't do the SOAP. I'm guessing that's the case your source is speaking of.

Hmm ok good to know. Dam "credible sources" these days, can't trust em.

 

[smalltownpsych]

"Friends don't let friends switch to psych." Couldn't resist this one. Seriously though, there does seem to be a dynamic with med students reluctantly choosing psychiatry that I find interesting. It makes sense though since the central nervous system and the complexity of it's function is really the most fascinating specialty. Call me biased, but why would anyone choose anything else? 😀 I kept trying to get my sister-in-law who was tired of being a peds RN to shift to pscyh. She just kept saying, "I hate psych." She works with terminal cancer patients now. Ugh. To each their own, I guess...

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Unfortunately the resistance to going into psych is often parental and peer pressure. It is almost like we live in a junior high school lunch yard, we are all so image conscious and worried about what others think. When medical students choose to go into psych their parents ask “So what is your second choice?, or What’s wrong with neurology.” If this doesn’t change their minds, they start to get phone calls from relatives they never hear from who happen to be in the medical field. Medical students are very bad at making selfish choices and to act out by going into psychiatry is practically unimaginable. Who can imagine going all the way through medical school just to waste all that education on psychiatry?

 

[Shikima]

Unfortunately the resistance to going into psych is often parental and peer pressure. It is almost like we live in a junior high school lunch yard, we are all so image conscious and worried about what others think. When medical students choose to go into psych their parents ask “So what is your second choice?, or What’s wrong with neurology.” If this doesn’t change their minds, they start to get phone calls from relatives they never hear from who happen to be in the medical field. Medical students are very bad at making selfish choices and to act out by going into psychiatry is practically unimaginable. Who can imagine going all the way through medical school just to waste all that education on psychiatry?

A good chance to super qualify the choice - I'm going into Forensic Psychiatry.

 

[DoDo the bird]

Hi! I am the friend of Psyxh1 that is switching from IM to psychiatry.

Thank you for all the suggestions so far. It sounds like scrambling into psychiatry is going to be more difficult than I imagined. Here is my plan B right now and I wonder if it is feasible.

Scramble into Osteo Psych, if fail --> scramble into Allopathic Psych, if fail -->scramble into Allopathic Preliminary, if fail --> scramble into Osteopathic TRI (traditional rotating intern).

I prefer not to do intern year in IM then switch.
The thought of doing a preliminary year or TRI year is to prepare to apply again next year. Since there is much more allopathic program than osteopathic, I thought I should focus on allopathic next year if I am going to try again.

Any thoughts? Thank you!

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

The osteopathic TRI training will not let you go into an allopathic PGY-II. Unless of course it is AOA and ACGME approved.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Hi! I am the friend of Psyxh1 that is switching from IM to psychiatry.

Thank you for all the suggestions so far. It sounds like scrambling into psychiatry is going to be more difficult than I imagined. Here is my plan B right now and I wonder if it is feasible.

Scramble into Osteo Psych, if fail --> scramble into Allopathic Psych, if fail -->scramble into Allopathic Preliminary, if fail --> scramble into Osteopathic TRI (traditional rotating intern).

I prefer not to do intern year in IM then switch.
The thought of doing a preliminary year or TRI year is to prepare to apply again next year. Since there is much more allopathic program than osteopathic, I thought I should focus on allopathic next year if I am going to try again.

Any thoughts? Thank you!

Is it too late to straight up apply for the Osteo psych match? Perhaps you'd find a local program interested in giving you an interview on short notice? I mean don't pester them, but if you ask politely in places where you might have some connection...
(I'm probably speaking out of ignorance in this domain, so fwiw...)

 

[eli20]

Unfortunately the resistance to going into psych is often parental and peer pressure. It is almost like we live in a junior high school lunch yard, we are all so image conscious and worried about what others think. When medical students choose to go into psych their parents ask “So what is your second choice?, or What’s wrong with neurology.” If this doesn’t change their minds, they start to get phone calls from relatives they never hear from who happen to be in the medical field. Medical students are very bad at making selfish choices and to act out by going into psychiatry is practically unimaginable. Who can imagine going all the way through medical school just to waste all that education on psychiatry?

I'm so glad I'm one of the only people in my class who doesn't have a doctor in the family.

 

[gapeach06]

Since you are a US graduate, you will likely not have any visa issues and will be desirable at a number of programs based on your US clinical experience. At this stage, I would look at programs that are more DO/FMG friendly or that are in less desirable areas to try and get an interview.

Scrambling should never be a strategy.

 

[SartoriousMeansTailor]

Did you try applying for (and calling/emailing) some of the osteopathic psych programs out there? I'm a DO too and I know I applied to AOA programs and then cancelled my interviews when I pulled out of the osteopathic match...so if others did the same thing, you may have luck finding AOA programs that still have interviews available. Good luck!!!

 

[hoodwinkd]

as far as I heard, last years ACGME psych match had something like 19 spots in the scramble which were very quickly snatched up..
she should know that the AOA psych scramble goes on and continues until all spots are filled.. an acquaintance matched into one of those in April