Friends want free dental care

[deerhunter]

Ok, so after I told my buddies that I got into D school, one of the first things I heard was, "All right!! I'm gonna get free dental care down the road!!" What do you guys think about that?

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[Tooth]

I'm not sure how I'm going to handle that yet, but I understand that you're supposed to use your friends/family/church to advertise. It's a two edge sword. If you're starting your business alone, you'll need them to come in, get "discounted" but great service and hope they talk you up to their other friends around town until you can get more people in the door. While in school, I'd just laugh about it with them and try to change the subject. After school, I might offer a 20% discount to them.

 

[aphistis]

Ok, so after I told my buddies that I got into D school, one of the first things I heard was, "All right!! I'm gonna get free dental care down the road!!" What do you guys think about that?

If you let the word get out that you give dental care away to your friends for free, the main consequence you'll see is a sharp rise in the number of people claiming to old friends of yours.

 

[dent_girl]

well why don't you tell them to invest in your dental education
for four years and guarantee lifetime dental care for your friend?
hehe a friend of mine thought about this cuz education's so
expensive and I thought it was brilliant. heheh 🙂

 

[jmick101]

I cant really see charging my family for anything. I think I would explain that I plan on charging their insurance though.

 

[aphistis]

I cant really see charging my family for anything. I think I would explain that I plan on charging their insurance though.

You know that'll get you nailed for insurance fraud, right? 😉

 

[TucsonDDS]

I think it all depends on how close your friends are. I have a couple of friends who I would have no problems doing care for free. These are the same friends who would have no problems spending a weekend helping me refinish my floors. Then again I also have some friends that would rather watch football and therefore pay for services.

 

[Avrelian]

well why don't you tell them to invest in your dental education
for four years and guarantee lifetime dental care for your friend?
hehe a friend of mine thought about this cuz education's so
expensive and I thought it was brilliant. heheh 🙂

Good idea! How much one should invest in you now to receive a lifetime dental care?

By the way, I know one bartender he gets free dental care, and his dentist never pays for his drinks, regardless of what and how much he drinks. He still leaves some tips though, but I think the dentist got a better deal.

 

[S Files]

Ok, so after I told my buddies that I got into D school, one of the first things I heard was, "All right!! I'm gonna get free dental care down the road!!" What do you guys think about that?

i've been asked that a bunch of times. i usually give a quick rundown of costs of running a dental practice - overhead, dental materials, LAB fees, employees, etc and that education zips 'em up real quick.

 

[deerhunter]

By the way, I know one bartender he gets free dental care, and his dentist never pays for his drinks, regardless of what and how much he drinks. He still leaves some tips though, but I think the dentist got a better deal.

haha, the dentist must go out fairly often!!

 

[jcheungdds]

By the way, I know one bartender he gets free dental care, and his dentist never pays for his drinks, regardless of what and how much he drinks. He still leaves some tips though, but I think the dentist got a better deal.

Brilliant!!

 

[Lesley]

Ok, so after I told my buddies that I got into D school, one of the first things I heard was, "All right!! I'm gonna get free dental care down the road!!" What do you guys think about that?

This issue is a sticky thicket and a thorn in most dentists sides.

My advice would be do this as absolutely, minimally as possible. You are sending the wrong message to the patient. If you give them a break, they will assume you can afford it. Period. They will not understand your predicament.

If you participate with a patient's insurance company, be very careful. Should you give a discount to your mother it must be duly noted on the her insurance form. The insurance company must be informed that you are giving the patient a discount, the reason, "It's my mother." and the amount or percentage of the discount, "I'm not charging her." The insurance company can then do whatever, they can reject the claim or they can discount your services further. You may not get paid, that's the risk you take, but you will be legal.

It's just easier not to give discounts to patients, but let's be real, how many of you are you going to charge your mother or father? Never, ever, give a discount to a patient without informing and noting it on the insurance claim form. Insurance fraud is nothing to mess with. Follow the rules.

If, for example, you are a new dentist working at about 70% overhead, on average, and you give a 20% discount, you have cut your income 66% for that service. Discounting of any sort whether it be participating with insurance companies or giving discounts to friends/family, can be very expensive to your business and reduce your income substantially. Think very carefully first. Once you give a patient a discount, it is very difficult to rescind it without very hard feelings.

Now the reality. You and I know that some of you may have school loans of $100,000, $200,000 and over $300,000, and we know that you will paying this off long after your hair is grey and your kids are out of college, but the great majority of patients aren't that smart. Telling them about your debt, your problems, your office issues is like talking to deaf ears. They may act like they are listening, but what they are thinking, at least the majority, is that you are a rich or soon to be rich dentist. Get use to it. This is reality.

 

[Avrelian]

haha, the dentist must go out fairly often!!

Why wouldn't he.. It is also a brewery, and the beer is excelent.

 

[aggie-master]

I'm probably going to provide services at my cost to my mom, dad, brothers, sisters, nieces, and nephews, which is about 12 people total. If any other relative (I have a big family) wants to be a patient, I'll treat them like family but they will still have to pay.

I don't plan on doing anything for free. If you have 70% overhead then you must charge them at least 70% of the full price or else you are losing money by working on them.

 

[Lesley]

I'm probably going to provide services at my cost to my mom, dad, brothers, sisters, nieces, and nephews, which is about 12 people total. If any other relative (I have a big family) wants to be a patient, I'll treat them like family but they will still have to pay.

I don't plan on doing anything for free. If you have 70% overhead then you must charge them at least 70% of the full price or else you are losing money by working on them.

Yep.

Aggie, Congratulations on your dental school acceptance. You are going to do very well at UTHSC-San Antonio. Good luck and Best wishes, Lesley

 

[3xCharm]

I don't know how anybody could ever charge their parents or siblings a dime for any service. It doesn't matter if you lose money, it's your family. I understand everybody has different family situations but my immediated family will be taken care of no questions asked. The reward for helping them is far greater than the money i "lose" providing them service. I am improving their health, live, and thus, my life. With friends I believe it should be a very limited give and take situation. If your friend is a MD and you provide services for them or their children then you should be compensated with the same in return. Or, if it they own a landscaping business, or work as a mechanic, but services "given away" should be VERY limited and compensated equally. For all those ready to attack, I am emphasizing very limited and that friend is not used loosely.

 

[Lesley]

I don't know how anybody could ever charge their parents or siblings a dime for any service. It doesn't matter if you lose money, it's your family. I understand everybody has different family situations but my immediated family will be taken care of no questions asked. The reward for helping them is far greater than the money i "lose" providing them service. I am improving their health, live, and thus, my life. With friends I believe it should be a very limited give and take situation. If your friend is a MD and you provide services for them or their children then you should be compensated with the same in return. Or, if it they own a landscaping business, or work as a mechanic, but services "given away" should be VERY limited and compensated equally. For all those ready to attack, I am emphasizing very limited and that friend is not used loosely.

I agree, but everybody has different family situations and the right to decide how far to extend discounts within their own families. I think that issue has a lot to do with the closeness and sometimes the size of a family and also financial situations. However, if you decide to barter with "friends," it is legally a taxable event. A sticky thicket, worth avoiding.

 

[jmick101]

You know that'll get you nailed for insurance fraud, right? 😉

Really? 😱 Nevermind.

 

[3xCharm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3xCharm
I don't know how anybody could ever charge their parents or siblings a dime for any service. It doesn't matter if you lose money, it's your family. I understand everybody has different family situations but my immediated family will be taken care of no questions asked. The reward for helping them is far greater than the money i "lose" providing them service. I am improving their health, live, and thus, my life. With friends I believe it should be a very limited give and take situation. If your friend is a MD and you provide services for them or their children then you should be compensated with the same in return. Or, if it they own a landscaping business, or work as a mechanic, but services "given away" should be VERY limited and compensated equally. For all those ready to attack, I am emphasizing very limited and that friend is not used loosely.


I agree, everybody has different family situations and the right to decide how far to extend discounts within their own families. I think that issue has a lot to do with the closeness and sometimes the size of a family. However, if you decide to barter with "friends," it is legally a taxable event. A sticky thicket, worth avoiding.

My thoughts are spoken through emotions and as a future dental student. As I learn the logistics my opinions may change, and also, once I graduate with huge loans a different reality may take place.

 

[Lesley]

Quote:



My thoughts are spoken through emotions and as a future dental student. As I learn the logistics my opinions may change, and also, once I graduate with huge loans a different reality may take place.

Believe me, I understand.

At this time of year most dentists are deciding, should I give my staff a raise, how much? Should I give a bonus, how much? Should I give more vacation time, how much? But dentists are also thinking, I'm already paying a nice salaries, the staff is already getting IRA contributions, health benefits, dental work and vacation time.

Being nice....whether it's to family, friends or staff....it's often tough for most of us to draw the line.

Good luck with your finals.

 

[aggie-master]

I don't know how anybody could ever charge their parents or siblings a dime for any service. It doesn't matter if you lose money, it's your family. I understand everybody has different family situations but my immediated family will be taken care of no questions asked. The reward for helping them is far greater than the money i "lose" providing them service. I am improving their health, live, and thus, my life. With friends I believe it should be a very limited give and take situation. If your friend is a MD and you provide services for them or their children then you should be compensated with the same in return. Or, if it they own a landscaping business, or work as a mechanic, but services "given away" should be VERY limited and compensated equally. For all those ready to attack, I am emphasizing very limited and that friend is not used loosely.

When it comes down to it, I'll probably do any kind of work on immediate family by myself on days that the office is closed. This will reduce the costs by not having to pay staff to work on them. But, I won't let them have everything for free if it is costing me money. My brother used to be a computer tech and he'll fix my computer for free, but if it turns out that my hard drive is broken he doesn't just buy one for me. It would be the same with dental work. I don't know what dentists pay for crowns but my guess is that the lab fee is somewhere north of $0.00.

 

[jcheungdds]

i'm in the same mind as most of what's been said here...my immediate family (and some close cousins, etc.) will be taken care of free of charge...that's just what i believe. even if it costs me some $$ (which it will....materials, lab fees, and the ever-precious chair time), its family...what could be more important that that? and its not like we'll be hurting financially, so i don't mind taking care of them. as for the friends and trading services...i'm totally down for that too...as long as its fair both ways. again, this is just my opinion...😀

 

[Lesley]

When it comes down to it, I'll probably do any kind of work on immediate family by myself on days that the office is closed. This will reduce the costs by not having to pay staff to work on them. But, I won't let them have everything for free if it is costing me money. My brother used to be a computer tech and he'll fix my computer for free, but if it turns out that my hard drive is broken he doesn't just buy one for me. It would be the same with dental work. I don't know what dentists pay for crowns but my guess is that the lab fee is somewhere north of $0.00.

When you do work on family and use the same lab that you give a lot of work to, note on the lab slip that this case is your mother's or another immediate family relative, often the lab will give you a discount.😉 Dentists pay all different amounts for crowns, but the better labs do charge more. I feel it's worth paying for better quality. You are right, if you asked your brother, say he was a homebuilder, to build you a home, what he would cut out would be his fee, or profit, not his overhead.

 

[DrTacoElf]

You know that'll get you nailed for insurance fraud, right? 😉

Easy work around which makes the paperwork and records look perfect. Transaction as ususal (no discounts), file insurance; personal out of pocket cash "gift" the same day from you to family member 😀

 

[griller]

i would charge relatives for my work at a discount but NEVER my immediate family. that is so pathetic to tell your parents or siblings that you're charging him. unless its a very expensive procedure, then i can see making him pay for the supplies, but thats it. anymore than that, your head must be too far up your business' a** and you need to pull it out and realize what a loser you are.

 

[Lesley]

i would charge relatives for my work at a discount but NEVER my immediate family. that is so pathetic to tell your parents or siblings that you're charging him. unless its a very expensive procedure, then i can see making him pay for the supplies, but thats it. anymore than that, your head must be too far up your business' a** and you need to pull it out and realize what a loser you are.

I'm with you about not charging immediate family, but I'm not going to judge what anyone else chooses to do. Regardless, if you have an immediate family member who has dental insurance and you send in the claim form, you must note the reason, "It's my mother" and the amount of the discount, "I'm not charging her." on her claim form. You may get some reimbursment from her insurance or none. After all, she, her employer or both are paying for insurance, so it's worth submitting the form, maybe foolish if you don't. You have nothing to lose if you do it appropriately. Good luck.

 

[aphistis]

i would charge relatives for my work at a discount but NEVER my immediate family. that is so pathetic to tell your parents or siblings that you're charging him. unless its a very expensive procedure, then i can see making him pay for the supplies, but thats it. anymore than that, your head must be too far up your business' a** and you need to pull it out and realize what a loser you are.

Well, I'd say this resolves the issue once and for all. 🙄

 

[DrJeff]

Personally in a really warped sort of way I find it fun to work on my immediate family (wife, parents, sibling, in-laws)😱 In reality once my loupes are on, with my field of vision being only a couple of teeth poking through a rubber dam, I'm not really looking at them as much as I am where I working just like any other patient, but it's the psychological aspect where the members of my immediate family are having flash backs to things they may have done/said to me in the past and wondering if I'll get some payback via pain while I'm working on them, that's the priceless part😉

The worst part for me though is working on my wife, not becuase she's my spouse, but the general dentist training - pre-ortho residency in her has her wanting to see everything as I'm working, and she'll often grab the hand mirror I have in my operatories and place the mirror right in my line of vision😉 🙄 On the flip side though, if I left a rough spot or something to that effect, how many spouses could say "you left some flash on the disto-lingual line angle of #18" and be correct in their terminology🙄 😀

And I do not charge my immediate family, for any work I do on them. That's my own personal opinion, whether it's right or wrong thats debatable amongst you morals/beliefs.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

There's a pretty exhaustive discussion on the topic by practicing dentists in DentalTown:

http://www.docere.com/MessageBoard/thread.aspx?s=2&f=109&t=66242&r=0#Post0


Their consensus seems to be that you shouldn't have to charge the people who really deserve it. (in other words, the people who truly support you wouldn't think of asking for it.) If someone demands it, though, they probably aren't the best patient for you.

Others, though, will swear by at least not charging immediate family, those who live in their house, or those who contributed to them financially while they were in dental school.

 

[QCkid]

I think its going to be different for everyone. I don't expect my brother to build me a house for free or give me the land for free. I don't expect my brother in law to represent me as my lawyer for free. The reason is that this is what they do for a living, with "do for a living" being the key words.
They have all invested significant amounts of time and money to be able to practice their profession. That time and money adds up to costs. If you allocated those costs as overhead to the practice then you start to discover the true cost of providing those services. In other words, if you just spent 4 years of your life in D-school when you could have been out making money then the money you could have made is a cost on top of what you paid for d-school with interest. Now when you consider the above mentioned costs added to your conventional office overhead + the costs associated with the loss of business due to the fact that you could have used the time you spent treating your friend or family memeber for free to treat a cash paying customer, the costs add up quickly.

As for my family, they will get a discount with mine and my wifes parents getting it at cost. For everone else, I'll go to plan B. Thats where I take em out to the parking lot and show em the ol lime green 1995 Geo prism (nickname: Milo) decked out with dents, rust, and all. If they still want a discount after that then they can hit the road. I'm just joking about the car thing..... probably.

 

[Lesley]

It has been our experience that the friends we gave discounts to ended up being some of our least respectful patients. Many broke their appointments at the last minute, some were no shows or came in late for their appointments. Many weren't good about paying their balances. When the front desk and assistants witness this kind of behavior and start to tell you this isn't right, it's time for a change. Live and learn.

 

[Lesley]

I think its going to be different for everyone. I don't expect my brother to build me a house for free or give me the land for free. I don't expect my brother in law to represent me as my lawyer for free. The reason is that this is what they do for a living, with "do for a living" being the key words.
They have all invested significant amounts of time and money to be able to practice their profession. That time and money adds up to costs. If you allocated those costs as overhead to the practice then you start to discover the true cost of providing those services. In other words, if you just spent 4 years of your life in D-school when you could have been out making money then the money you could have made is a cost on top of what you paid for d-school with interest. Now when you consider the above mentioned costs added to your conventional office overhead + the costs associated with the loss of business due to the fact that you could have used the time you spent treating your friend or family memeber for free to treat a cash paying customer, the costs add up quickly.

As for my family, they will get a discount with mine and my wifes parents getting it at cost. For everone else, I'll go to plan B. Thats where I take em out to the parking lot and show em the ol lime green 1995 Geo prism (nickname: Milo) decked out with dents, rust, and all. If they still want a discount after that then they can hit the road. I'm just joking about the car thing..... probably.

I understand completely. Dentistry is a very expensive and lengthy proposition. There's the time you are in school, the educational costs and the practice costs. It all adds up to a very large sum. As I've said before, nobody should judge what anyone else chooses to do. It's a very personal decision and everyone is coming at this from different financial and family circumstances. Best wishes and Happy Holidays!🙂

 

[eleminopee]

i'm not ever giving anybody any free dental care, not even my parents or wife. in fact, i'm gonna charge them double. and my siblings. and you too if you ever come to me. heck i'm gonna charge everybody double just to be fair. 👍 😀

 

[pacbum]

why is it considered insurance fraud if you give them a discount? or just like not collect the copay...is that really a problem? seems kinda silly to be considered insurance fraud

 

[aphistis]

why is it considered insurance fraud if you give them a discount? or just like not collect the copay...is that really a problem? seems kinda silly to be considered insurance fraud

Discounts aren't fraudulent, but insurance policies are made to cover a particular percentage of the fee for any given procedure. By collecting from the insurance company but not the patient, you're violating the terms of the policy agreement.

 

[D for Drill]

I want to get something made to hang up in my office one day that says that. Luckily there are other dentists in my family so I can always send those people to the "push-overs" in my family to give them care.
My family did not do anything for me in undergrad or dental school, so they missed their chance for some even discounted work.
If you decide beforehand that nobody gets discounts, you never get screwed. I agree with the posts about how people will automatically remember how you hung out in junior high if they hear there will be a discount. I have a brother in law who is a "poor" orthodontist because everyone gets either a discount or free work since he cant say no.
We have overhead and that is something that they dont understand since we are all "rich doctors"

 

[dentalman]

I want to get something made to hang up in my office one day that says that. Luckily there are other dentists in my family so I can always send those people to the "push-overs" in my family to give them care.
My family did not do anything for me in undergrad or dental school, so they missed their chance for some even discounted work.
If you decide beforehand that nobody gets discounts, you never get screwed. I agree with the posts about how people will automatically remember how you hung out in junior high if they hear there will be a discount. I have a brother in law who is a "poor" orthodontist because everyone gets either a discount or free work since he cant say no.
We have overhead and that is something that they dont understand since we are all "rich doctors"

Your poor mother.

 

[Empty pockets]

Ok, so after I told my buddies that I got into D school, one of the first things I heard was, "All right!! I'm gonna get free dental care down the road!!" What do you guys think about that?

i THINK THAT IF THEY ARE YOUR FRIENDS THEN THEY SHOULD GET FREE DENTAL CARE.

JUST AS IF THEY ARE MECHANICS OR CPAS THEY SHOULD WORK ON YOUR CAR FOR FREE AND DO YOUR TAXES.

BIG DEAL.

 

[Empty pockets]

If you let the word get out that you give dental care away to your friends for free, the main consequence you'll see is a sharp rise in the number of people claiming to old friends of yours.

CRAZY RESPONSE.

I THINK HE WILL KNOW.

man, such a sarcastic person.

 

[drhobie7]

Tell them they need to reciprocate with their jobs. E.G. To the friend who sells BMWs, say, "Oh snap! Now I can get a new M5 for $20K!"

 

[deeyala]

friends- all types, no matter how "close" will have to pay full fees.
Only people i'll treat for free are my Mum, Dad, sis, bro and grandma..!

What about when my bro and sis start their own families and decide to bring their spouses and children over for free dental care.?
mmm.. though one.. probably not


Generally,If i can afford it, then it's OK..
If it's like a class I composite filling on a premolar, then it's OK..
If it's something like a full mouth rehabillitation - then definitely they're goign to pay for it

 

[nhile]

I know most people here wouldn't second guess giving their family free service, but I am astounded by the few who won't extend the free branch to anyone.

Personally, it shouldn't even have to be said that one would treat one's parents and siblings for free. Even if I were to lose money, they are my family and I can't even fathom giving them anything less than free dental care. This also extends to my future nieces and/or nephews and even to my aunts and uncles and first cousins. Sure, this adds up to a lot of people, but it is more important to me to provide not only excellent, but compassionate health care. I know dentists that go even so far as to donate one day of the week doing pro bono work- that amounts to more freebies than providing free service to your family. As far as friends go, that is at your discretion. By time you're a dentist, you should know who your close friends are and they should also be understanding as to what kind of free service you can offer exclusively for them.

I'm just shocked that some people here would second guess themselves in providing free dental care to their family. I understand people have different family situations but as future professionals, I think it's ill advised to further alienate yourself from whatever situation one has with their family.