From DO Program to MD

[CSH713]

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[CSH713]

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[pseudoMCAT45]

I can tell you right now that you won't make any friends around here.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Is there anyone who attended the NYIT BS/DO program and, after completing their undergraduate, applied to medical school for MD (rather than applying to NYCOM for DO) and got in? I'm interested in taking this path in order to get a MD but am not sure if its possible. Is is difficult to apply to med schools with just three years undergraduate? And, do students in the program have to take their MCATS their second year of undergrad?

So you want to take advantage/a spot away from someone in a BS/DO program in an attempt to get a BS in 3 years, then drop out of the program, take the MCAT and go to any MD school including the vastly inferior Caribbean programs (compared to NYCOM)??? Am I wrong here??

Let me give you some better advice jackass. Go to a regular undergrad, finish in 3 years, then take the mcat and apply to all MD schools.

 

[Bacchus]

These 3+4 programs are designed that you matriculate without a BS degree, from my experience. That said, you won't be able to apply during your 3rd year (to matriculate after it) because you won't have a degree. If you don't want to go to NYCOM don't use a program with no benefit to you.

 

[rc4ch]

I agree with everyone here. Its kinda lame to do this program and take this opportunity away from someone that really wants it.

So your still a high school student. I suggest you do some research about medical doctors in the U.S. You'll learn quite a lot of things. Then come back to these forums.

 

[rockchalkjdoc]

Why sell yourself short as an MD? You're obviously incredibly bright (otherwise you wouldn't be considered for the BS/DO program), and if you work hard the only difference in the end result of the two paths is degree designation. That and the improved palpatory skills that DO offers.

 

[MossPoh]

I agree with everyone here. Its kinda lame to do this program and take this opportunity away from someone that really wants it.

So your still a high school student. I suggest you do some research about medical doctors in the U.S. You'll learn quite a lot of things. Then come back to these forums.

I don't care about the question that much, but fallout rocks.

 

[Grey Wind]

I don't care about the question that much, but fallout rocks.

👍

 

[rc4ch]

I don't care about the question that much, but fallout rocks.

Yay!

 

[countthestars]

Going back to the OPs question, you are going to have to do really really well on the MCATS and undergrad to even consider applying to a us MD school from NYIT. I'm talking about a 31 or above. Most people that opt of of the BS/DO program either go to a carrabien school or go to another DO school. I have heard of very very few people that have gotten into a us MD school and those that have are rockstars and basically have a 3.8 gpa or higher and an MCAT score of 30 or higher.

With everything else considered, its a safe program and if you work hard you will get into NYCOM. You'll finish school one year ahead of everyone else. I really dont see why on earth you woudl want to opt out of the bs/do program and then apply to a carrabien school 😕😕. It makes no sense

 

[countthestars]

Also, if you really don't want be a DO, there are numerous BS/MD programs out there as well. Look into sophie davis if you want to stay in nyc.

 

[DrMattOglesby]

Going back to the OPs question, you are going to have to do really really well on the MCATS and undergrad to even consider applying to a us MD school from NYIT. I'm talking about a 31 or above. Most people that opt of of the BS/DO program either go to a carrabien school or go to another DO school. I have heard of very very few people that have gotten into a us MD school and those that have are rockstars and basically have a 3.8 gpa or higher and an MCAT score of 30 or higher.

I'm not sure the name of the undergrad institution has THAT much of a role in the application process.
And I would say it's more like a 3.6 with a 31 MCAT to feel confident about getting in somewhere...but that's just a guess of mine.

EDIT: and as disclaimer--I do not encourage applying to other med schools if you get accepted in the dual BS/DO program at NYIT!!!

 

[Bacchus]

I'm not sure the name of the undergrad institution has THAT much of a role in the application process.
And I would say it's more like a 3.6 with a 31 MCAT to feel confident about getting in somewhere...but that's just a guess of mine.

I'll call this. This is reasonable.

 

[sarahg]

If your ultimate goal is MD, the easiest options will be a BS->MD program or just going to college, getting good grades and a good MCAT score, then applying. If you'd consider Carribbean MD over DO, SGU has a BS/MD program that's probably easy-ish to get into. The only possible benefit I can see of the program you're talking about is that you're ensured to get in somewhere -- and you probably give that up when you take a gap year to apply to MD schools. DO schools will be less reliable fallback, too, because they'll see that you left an BS-DO program and they'll know what's going on and not be amused.

 

[AzithromycinFTW]

Why not stick with your DO program?

DOs are fully licensed physicans. The primary difference being that these physicians are trained in osteopathic manipulative medicine, which has shown to be beneficial to people suffering from certain musculoskeletal injuries. Additionally, it provides an alternative to expensive diagnostic tests and procedures in certain situations.

Otherwise, from what I've read, the training is virtually identical and there is no discernable variance in salaries between MDs and DOs practicing in the same speciality.

If you aspire to matriculate into an allopathic school, then you should apply to allopathic programs. On the other hand, if you geniunely want to become an osteopathic physician, do that! Don't just pick one or the other because you think it will be a "short-cut" to...doctor-hood. 😛

If you are interested in an allopathic school, why not complete undergrad at a different college?

 

[slick27]

I don't think it would be unreasonable to opt out of the bs/do program. I'm sure they overaccept for the program not expecting everyone to attend the do program. Some people might not have the required gpa or mcat to stay in the program. Others, might simply not want to do medicine anymore. But, to accept knowing that you are using it as a back up plan might not be the most ethical thing to do. Think about it for a while. Just remember DO and MD programs will only get tougher to get into in the future.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

This is one of the weirdest and dumbest questions I have ever heard.

1. I'm guessing that any MD school you apply to will know that you're in a linked program, and they will wonder what the hell you're doing. This will hurt your chances, if not get you eliminated at the outset, from a lot of programs. Which programs? I don't know. It isn't listed in the MSAR. So you're going to have to guess.

2. What if you don't get into an MD program. You're finished. NYCOM won't touch you, and they might decide to make sure nobody else does either. They're a big school, and they've been around for a while. They've got connections everywhere, and all it would take is a quick e-mail to someone's buddy on faculty at other schools. And its not like schools will be running each other over to accept you. I don't care if you get a 4.0 and a 45 on your MCAT, and you get published 20 times and work at a major hospital for 10 years. I assure you that you can be replaced.

If you don't want to go to NYCOM's DO program, go somewhere else. Wait until you have some clue about this process, and various schools, before you make a decision.

 

[countthestars]

I'm not sure the name of the undergrad institution has THAT much of a role in the application process.
And I would say it's more like a 3.6 with a 31 MCAT to feel confident about getting in somewhere...but that's just a guess of mine.

EDIT: and as disclaimer--I do not encourage applying to other med schools if you get accepted in the dual BS/DO program at NYIT!!!

I'm just going by my friends who were BS/DOs and now are at nycom are telling me. They had a couple of friends with stats lower than what I said and they had a hard time getting into a US md school...

 

[Handy388]

I thought people in BS/MD or BS/DO programs can opt out and apply to other schools?

 

[countthestars]

I thought people in BS/MD or BS/DO programs can opt out and apply to other schools?

Of course they can but that's assuming they are competitive enough to do so. The other thing is why would anyone want another year of schooling if they can finish it off in 7 years? That's one year of 100k+ earning potential lost. From a fiscal standpoint it also doesn't make sense.

 

[Bacchus]

I would give that income up for the year I got while in school, my senior year as a 21/22 year old. Memories this year >>>>>>>>>>>>> 100,000.

 

[group_theory]

The wrinkle in your plan is that if you were to leave NYIT's BS/DO program after 3 years (to pursue an MD), you will not have your BS

Like many BS/MD programs, the BS is conditioned on you completing the first year of medical schools (where credits during your MS1 year will be used to fulfill your undergraduate requirements for graduation)

To quote the website:
http://iris.nyit.edu/nycom/Admissions_BS_DO_Program.htm
"A select number of those who qualify will be admitted
to the School of Health Professions, Behavioral and Life Sciences and upon successful completion
of three undergraduate years plus the first year in New York College of Osteopathic Medicine will
receive a Bachelor of Science in life sciences (pre-professional option)"

Some MD schools require a bachelor degree upon matriculation (while others only require the minimum of 90 credits or its equivalent). BTW, St George requires a bachelor degree upon matriculation

http://www.sgu.edu/som/medsciences-admissions.html

"A completed bachelor’s degree from an accredited university is required for direct entry into the medical sciences. A candidate may apply before completion of the bachelor degree, however, a candidate’s acceptance will be withdrawn if the degree is not obtained."


In addition - what is the timeline of your brillant plan? When exactly will you be taking the MCAT? When will you be applying to MD schools? Will it be during your junior year of undergrad where you will only have 2 years of academic records for MD schools to look at?
Or will you wait until after your junior year to apply (which most premeds do) - in which case you will have to decide (almost immediately) whether you want to spend your 4th year of undergrad as a 1st year medical student at NYCOM or as an undergraduate finishing your BS requirements while applying to medical schools (both in the US and St George)?

 

[engineeredout]

I would give that income up for the year I got while in school, my senior year as a 21/22 year old. Memories this year >>>>>>>>>>>>> 100,000.

Not me. This year has been teh suck. I don't even care anymore, just have to get through the next three weeks.

 

[Bacchus]

I have to finish this final... and then I'm done.

 

[Mohammed1989]

I can tell you right now that you won't make any friends around here.

Yeah you got that right. This thread got everyone fired up lol

 

[JaggerPlate]

2 posts from the OP and absolutely no reply either ... hmm, totally not a troll. Glad I got an infraction in this thread.

 

[Mohammed1989]

2 posts from the OP and absolutely no reply either ... hmm, totally not a troll. Glad I got an infraction in this thread.

The OP must be thinking smart lol. If I made a stupid thread like this one I wouldn't want to respond to anyone might be hurtful. I mean comeone that's a great opportunity, I consider him/her a fool.

 

[StrivingSurge13]

The OP must be thinking smart lol. If I made a stupid thread like this one I wouldn't want to respond to anyone might be hurtful. I mean comeone that's a great opportunity, I consider him/her a fool.

I think you guys are being too rough on this guy/girl, as is often the case on these forums, where any number of threads become flame wars and where any number of OP's get belittled and harassed.

It sounds to me that this poster is still a high school student deciding on which college to go to. Seems as if he/she has gotten into that 3 year BS/DO program and is weighing his/her options... being in high school and not even that far into the premedical "track" he/she does not yet know the ins and outs of the subjects of what is a DO, MD, and all of the knowledge we now take for granted. He/she seems to be under the impression that after 3 years they will have a BS (probably untrue) and is wondering if they could use this to apply to other schools. Thus, still bypassing that 4th year without being constrained to that program. Although more research could have been done on the OP's part, to them this question was most likely an innocent request for guidance... A request, many of the posters in this thread failed to fulfill...

 

[Anita817]

I think you guys are being too rough on this guy/girl, as is often the case on these forums, where any number of threads become flame wars and where any number of OP's get belittled and harassed.

It sounds to me that this poster is still a high school student deciding on which college to go to. Seems as if he/she has gotten into that 3 year BS/DO program and is weighing his/her options... being in high school and not even that far into the premedical "track" he/she does not yet know the ins and outs of the subjects of what is a DO, MD, and all of the knowledge we now take for granted. He/she seems to be under the impression that after 3 years they will have a BS (probably untrue) and is wondering if they could use this to apply to other schools. Thus, still bypassing that 4th year without being constrained to that program. Although more research could have been done on the OP's part, to them this question was most likely an innocent request for guidance... A request, many of the posters in this thread failed to fulfill...

I agree--I'm going to assume the OP is not an idiot, or he/she wouldn't have been accepted to the program in the first place, but perhaps a little ignorant to this process. The post may not have been met with as much hostility on the HS boards, but I'm guessing he/she thought there would be more knowledgeable replies if the message was posted here. Albeit the replies certainly get the point across, I think we could afford to tone it down.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I'm going to 99.9% assume this person is a troll - ie no response, and 0.1% assume that it's a young kid who looks at a DO degree as a backup, inferior safety. Otherwise this person, assuming they are legit, wouldn't try to manipulate the system like this.

 

[niranjan162]

I think you guys are being too rough on this guy/girl, as is often the case on these forums, where any number of threads become flame wars and where any number of OP's get belittled and harassed.

It sounds to me that this poster is still a high school student deciding on which college to go to. Seems as if he/she has gotten into that 3 year BS/DO program and is weighing his/her options... being in high school and not even that far into the premedical "track" he/she does not yet know the ins and outs of the subjects of what is a DO, MD, and all of the knowledge we now take for granted. He/she seems to be under the impression that after 3 years they will have a BS (probably untrue) and is wondering if they could use this to apply to other schools. Thus, still bypassing that 4th year without being constrained to that program. Although more research could have been done on the OP's part, to them this question was most likely an innocent request for guidance... A request, many of the posters in this thread failed to fulfill...

either way its douchebaggery to take the spot away from someone who wouldve been happy in the program, just so he could finish earlier. Not to mention that he can graduate in three years from any school if he really wanted to. Maybe if google didnt exist or the search function on the forum, people wouldnt be so quick to jump on people like him.

 

[Chocolate Bear]

Let's keep it civil and professional, folks. If you don't like the thread, find another one.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The OP's sentiment is one of the reasons why I adamantly oppose these programs that give high school students "guaranteed" seats in medical schools. Many people I've encountered in these pre-prof programs are unclear on why they even want to become doctors in the first place, and they're hogging up med school seats that their more dedicated and thoughtful peers would make better use of.

On top of that, judging somebody's ability to succeed in medical school based on high school grades and SAT scores seems like the height of folly to me. Heck, at Case Western the pre-profs don't even have to take the MCAT (!) - all they have to do is keep a 3.6 overall. It's absurd.

That said, however, it is possible that the OP isn't very versed on the whole DO/MD issue and is a bit curious about what DOs actually are. Still, simply googling "what is a DO" will quickly lead you to several accurate and useful Wikipedia articles on the subject....so why didn't he/she just do that.

OP: go to college, do the pre-med core courses, talk to some doctors, read up on the subject, and then make some sort of decision about where and why you want to go to medical school.

 

[slick27]

I agree I have not been impressed by the med scholars I have come into contact with. I've known med scholars that have got 19 and 20's on their mcat exam, but somehow still got to keep their seat in the class.

SAT and ACT are easier exams if people in high school actually prepped for them.

I think the op knows what DO's are and/or do. They are just concered about the preceived "2nd class doctors" the are believed to be by the public/MD's/premeds/whoever. (this is however not my opinion)

 

[StrivingSurge13]

I know that the 3 year bs/md program at my undergraduate institution guarantees a spot for that student on condition that they maintain a certain gpa, 3.7 cumulative I believe with each year a bit different... basically allowing for more leniency the first year or so. The program also requires a 30 on the MCAT. Furthermore, the program dictates that the students take on an approved research/volunteer/work project at the appropriate time during their college career. The end result being a student going through the work and paces traditionally associated with a successful med school applicant anyway. I think that these are appropriate requirements, and therefore appropriate conditions to offer the 3 year programs under.

The OP's sentiment is one of the reasons why I adamantly oppose these programs that give high school students "guaranteed" seats in medical schools. Many people I've encountered in these pre-prof programs are unclear on why they even want to become doctors in the first place, and they're hogging up med school seats that their more dedicated and thoughtful peers would make better use of.

I think this is a flawed assessment of the situation. I think the majority of all pre-meds don't know why they want to become doctors until later on in their undergraduate careers. These programs do not "hog up med school seats" because they do not restrict these students to the program... if after a year or so of college they decide, like many other traditional pre-meds, that medicine is not right for them than they are not forced to finish the program. The end result being that only those with proven academic success at the college level, and who stick with the program are allowed in.

 

[niranjan162]

I know that the 3 year bs/md program at my undergraduate institution guarantees a spot for that student on condition that they maintain a certain gpa, 3.7 cumulative I believe with each year a bit different... basically allowing for more leniency the first year or so. The program also requires a 30 on the MCAT. Furthermore, the program dictates that the students take on an approved research/volunteer/work project at the appropriate time during their college career. The end result being a student going through the work and paces traditionally associated with a successful med school applicant anyway. I think that these are appropriate requirements, and therefore appropriate conditions to offer the 3 year programs under.

At my school if your in the program you just cant get lower than a B in any class and have to get at least a 9 in all sections of the MCAT. Im not 100% sure but i dont think you need to do any research of shadowing.

I think this is a flawed assessment of the situation. I think the majority of all pre-meds don't know why they want to become doctors until later on in their undergraduate careers. These programs do not "hog up med school seats" because they do not restrict these students to the program... if after a year or so of college they decide, like many other traditional pre-meds, that medicine is not right for them than they are not forced to finish the program. The end result being that only those with proven academic success at the college level, and who stick with the program are allowed in.

I think youre right about alot of people not knowing why they want to become doctors and i think its doubly so for people admitted to these programs. I think that these people will finish the program whether they like it or not, however, and not get that introspective exploration that you get when your not pigeonholed into a career.