Frustrated International student

[xianghui]

Hi Everyone,

I know it is only early August, but I have already received two rejections (UChicago and Case).
I am an international student finishing up my Ph.D at Northwestern University. I am applying this cycle.
Here is what I have done:
I submitted my primary on the first day (6/7) and pre-wrote most of the secondaries (my turn-around time is less than three days in most cases, except for MCW, Duke and UKentucky, because they are longer).
My Stats: 3.85 GPA, 3.82 Science GPA
My July 2014 MCAT: PS12 V11 BS12 Total 35
ECs: three publications (1 first author review, 1 co-author review and 1 co-author research paper)
I just published another co-author research paper and my own 1st author research paper is in review.
200hrs shadowing in radiation oncology department
250hrs volunteering in a pediatric hospital
TA in molecular biology lab for 10 weeks
private tutor during undergraduate
Volunteer in an earthquake area for 1 month back in 2009
various awards during undergraduate (best thesis, scholarships for research, etc...)
conference awards (for posters, and travel awards) during graduate school
recommendation letters from people that I know who will never stab me...

I honestly don't know whether I will be accepted to medical schools or not, considering that I already two rejections from schools that take international students.

I applied to 36 schools, and many schools that I have applied already send out interview invitations, and I was either rejected or not replied (i.e. I did not hear back from them at all, and I assumed that they just haven't rejected me yet).

Should I start preparing for the new MCAT so that I can get started for the next cycle (I will try to convince my advisor to keep me as a student for another year, if this is the case), or am I just being too pessimistic at this point? It is hard not to stay pessimistic since many schools have already sent out IIs and I received 0, including schools that have a lower MCAT and GPA average than mine (for example, a 3.6/31 school).

Any feedback is appreciated... Felt better after writing this.

I do have a question, do schools send IIs to international students later than domestic students? I wish I had a green card......

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[Law2Doc]

2 rejections out of 36 is not yet time to panic. Hopefully you applied to a range of places and not just competitive ones.

 

[xianghui]

2 rejections out of 36 is not yet time to panic. Hopefully you applied to a range of places and not just competitive ones.

Thank you for your prompt reply. The "not-so-competitive ones" I applied include Hawaii, Penn State, UKentucky, Georgetown, MCW, NYMC, Saint Louis University, Stony Brook, Rosalind Franklin... Basically all the schools that take international students.
Or are these even considered as "safe schools"?

 

[TheBiologist]

Honestly, I would just consider those rejections part of the norm. The reality is that schools do reject many top notch stats students - and you have top notch stats.

The key obviously isn't to get into EVERY med school you applied to, but get into one (and hope that it's one you are happy with). With your stats your probability of getting into a good school is very high

 

[Law2Doc]

There are no safety schools for med school -- all med schools receive many more applications than seats.

 

[xianghui]

Honestly, I would just consider those rejections part of the norm. The reality is that schools do reject many top notch stats students - and you have top notch stats.

The key obviously isn't to get into EVERY med school you applied to, but get into one (and hope that it's one you are happy with). With your stats your probability of getting into a good school is very high

Does being an international student make the probability a lot lower though? Despite the stats... I know, everyone around me told me not to worry, but the fact that I got rejected by those two schools make me doubt about myself and my possibility of getting into medical schools...
I hope that next year this thread will be a joke, but now it is not... Thank you for your comfort.

 

[TheBiologist]

Does being an international student make the probability a lot lower though? Despite the stats... I know, everyone around me told me not to worry, but the fact that I got rejected by those two schools make me doubt about myself and my possibility of getting into medical schools...
I hope that next year this thread will be a joke, but now it is not... Thank you for your comfort.

So considering you go to Northwestern (in the US right?) I don't think just being an international student would affect your chances; you have the grades and the MCAT and you speak english - you are qualified even if you were born in a different country. Did someone tell you otherwise, because maybe I'm mistaken, but I think it shouldn't affect your app at all

Now, did you go to UGrad in a different country? This may affect your chances. But I would still think the Ph.D. from Northwestern would cover up any uncertainty about a forein college

EDIT:

Sorry, I just realized that yes most public schools favor applicants from their state. What about private schools though; did you apply to any?

 

[cyang55]

being an international student does make your probability of getting into a med school lower, just because of the fact that you are competing for less seats (maybe 1-5) depending on the school. have you ever considered DO school? you could look into that as well, expand your chances if you don't mind the MD or DO after your name

 

[xianghui]

So considering you go to Northwestern (in the US right?) I don't think just being an international student would affect your chances; you have the grades and the MCAT and you speak english - you are qualified even if you were born in a different country. Did someone tell you otherwise, because maybe I'm mistaken, but I think it shouldn't affect your app at all

Now, did you go to UGrad in a different country? This may affect your chances. But I would still think the Ph.D. from Northwestern would cover up any uncertainty about a forein college

I did my undergraduate here. I was told in the reply below that it does make a difference though.

 

[xianghui]

being an international student does make your probability of getting into a med school lower, just because of the fact that you are competing for less seats (maybe 1-5) depending on the school. have you ever considered DO school? you could look into that as well, expand your chances if you don't mind the MD or DO after your name

No I have never considered DO schools. And sorry but I did not keep DO schools into my consideration for this cycle at least.
I am more looking into what I should do to increase my chances at MD schools.

 

[TheBiologist]

I did my undergraduate here. I was told in the reply below that it does make a difference though.

I just edited my last post; I am wrong, most public schools favor applicants who reside within their state so it may lower your chances a little, but your stats are still good so I'd keep my hopes up

 

[xianghui]

I just edited my last post; I am wrong, most public schools favor applicants who reside within their state so it may lower your chances a little, but your stats are still good so I'd keep my hopes up

I applied to many many private schools, including Feinberg. I try to keep my hopes high, but with those rejections it makes things worse, especially when I saw other people receiving IIs.

 

[gyngyn]

Only 300 of 1901 internationals matriculate. This includes Canadians, who seem to be favored at many of the now 57 schools that consider them. You have good scores, with any luck you will get some interviews.
https://students-residents.aamc.org...ool/article/applying-international-applicant/

 

[gyngyn]

So considering you go to Northwestern (in the US right?) I don't think just being an international student would affect your chances; you have the grades and the MCAT and you speak english - you are qualified even if you were born in a different country. Did someone tell you otherwise, because maybe I'm mistaken, but I think it shouldn't affect your app at all

Internationals have a huge uphill struggle. It is greatly in excess of merely being out of state.
In addition, many schools require an escrow account to show that the candidate has sufficient funds to cover the cost of attendance for any number of years, since they lack access to federal funding.

 

[xianghui]

Only 300 of 1901 internationals matriculate. This includes Canadians, who seem to be favored at many of the now 57 schools that consider them. You have good scores, with any luck you will get some interviews.
https://students-residents.aamc.org...ool/article/applying-international-applicant/

I am fully aware of this. That is why I am self-doubting and thinking about other plans (taking the new MCAT, apply next year and etc...) How long should I wait before starting the preparation for the new MCAT (For example, no IIs until October, December, or February...)

 

[gyngyn]

I am fully aware of this. That is why I am self-doubting and thinking about other plans (taking the new MCAT, apply next year and etc...) How long should I wait before starting the preparation for the new MCAT (For example, no IIs until October, December, or February...)

Late November.

 

[xianghui]

Internationals have a huge uphill struggle. It is greatly in excess of merely being out of state.
In addition, many schools require an escrow account to show that the candidate has sufficient funds to cover the cost of attendance for any number of years, since they lack access to federal funding.

Financing the education is not an issue... Yeah I know the uphill struggle. Based on the stats and ECs posted do you see me having any potential chances at all?

 

[gyngyn]

Financing the education is not an issue... Yeah I know the uphill struggle. Based on the stats and ECs posted do you see me having any potential chances at all?

Sure. As long as you have well written secondary responses at the schools that might interview you.

 

[deleted480308]

No I have never considered DO schools. And sorry but I did not keep DO schools into my consideration for this cycle at least.
I am more looking into what I should do to increase my chances at MD schools.

Nothing unless you can be a citizen by the next cycle. You can dramatically increasr your odds of being a medical student by also applying DO. It seems strange to turn down your nose with no MD acceptane letter in your pocket

 

[Bethany555]

According to AAMC, the average international matriculant had a 33.6 MCAT / 3.77 cGPA / 3.75 sGPA compared to a 31.4 MCAT / 3.70 cGPA / 3.64 sGPA overall. I think you have a good shot. Do some cool things and send update letters / demonstrate your interest in the fall. If you are really concerned, you could expand your school list, since it is only August.

 

[gyngyn]

According to AAMC, the average international matriculant had a 33.6 MCAT / 3.77 cGPA / 3.75 sGPA compared to a 31.4 MCAT / 3.70 cGPA / 3.64 sGPA overall. I think you have a good shot. Do some cool things and send update letters / demonstrate your interest in the fall. If you are really concerned, you could expand your school list, since it is only August.

He already applied to 36 schools. Only 57 even say that they consider internationals. If he chose the schools that have taken at least 3, he's realistically maxxed out his list. If he did not choose wisely, you are right.

 

[xianghui]

He already applied to 36 schools. Only 57 even say that they consider internationals. If he chose the schools that have taken at least 3, he's realistically maxxed out his list. If he did not choose wisely, you are right.

Exactly. I did my research at MSAR. There are schools that consider Canadians for eligible international students only and I crossed those out. I actually applied to 38, but 2 already rejected me, so now 36 schools remain on my list.

 

[gyngyn]

Exactly. I did my research at MSAR. There are schools that consider Canadians for eligible international students only and I crossed those out. I actually applied to 38, but 2 already rejected me, so now 36 schools remain on my list.

Did you check the acceptance tab to see how many they matriculated at each of these? If so, you've done the best you can.

 

[xianghui]

Did you check the acceptance tab to see how many they matriculated at each of these? If so, you've done the best you can.

Yes I did. Every single one of them. And I even looked at their stats in 2016.
Do you think I should consider applying for DO schools? I don't know why but I just don't feel like applying or going to a DO school. But if you think I should then probably I should.

 

[gyngyn]

Yes I did. Every single one of them. And I even looked at their stats in 2016.
Do you think I should consider applying for DO schools? I don't know why but I just don't feel like applying or going to a DO school. But if you think I should then probably I should.

Hang in there. If you get no interviews by November, I'll be surprised (as long as that is your only MCAT).

 

[xianghui]

Hang in there. If you get no interviews by November, I'll be surprised (as long as that is your only MCAT).

I have two expired MCAT in 2011 (31 and 32) but they are expired, so I don't know if they still count.

 

[gyngyn]

I have two expired MCAT in 2011 (31 and 32) but they are expired, so I don't know if they still count.

They do.
This brings your effective MCAT down to about a 32-33.
You are still likely to get some interviews.

Your rejection from the U of Chicago is not surprising since they matriculated no internationals last year. NW only matriculated 3 regular MD. Are you sure you checked the acceptance tab in the MSAR?

 

[xianghui]

They do.
This brings your effective MCAT down to about a 32-33.
You are still likely to get some interviews.

I'm surprised that expired MCATs still count.
Thank you professor I'll keep you updated.

 

[xianghui]

They do.
This brings your effective MCAT down to about a 32-33.
You are still likely to get some interviews.

Your rejection from the U of Chicago is not surprising since they matriculated no internationals last year. NW only matriculated 3 regular MD. Are you sure you checked the acceptance tab in the MSAR?

Yeah I did. Those are the schools that I include because I wanted to give it a try. I guess I'm a person who easily gets discouraged.

More realistic schools are Albert Einstein, Feinberg, Kentucky, Saint Louis, Dartmouth, for example. I don't remember every single number on top of my head but these are either close to double digits or double digits. I also applied to schools that took 0 in 2016 but some in 2015 to maximize my chances.

 

[gyngyn]

Yeah I did. Those are the schools that I include because I wanted to give it a try. I guess I'm a person who easily gets discouraged.

More realistic schools are Albert Einstein, Feinberg, Kentucky, Saint Louis, Dartmouth, for example. I don't remember every single number on top of my head but these are either close to double digits or double digits. I also applied to schools that took 0 in 2016 but some in 2015 to maximize my chances.

I'm pretty sure that all of those are better shots than Feinberg or U of C...

 

[xianghui]

They do.
This brings your effective MCAT down to about a 32-33.
You are still likely to get some interviews.

Your rejection from the U of Chicago is not surprising since they matriculated no internationals last year. NW only matriculated 3 regular MD. Are you sure you checked the acceptance tab in the MSAR?

Do schools give out IIs for international students later than domestics due to limited seats, if they do give IIs to us?

 

[xianghui]

I'm pretty sure that all of those are better shots than Feinberg or U of C...

You mean Case? I'm from Feinberg. I'm doing my Ph.D work at Feinberg.

 

[Goro]

The DO cycle is longer, so you could apply starting now and still be fine. Do some research about the field, and find a DO to shadow. That won't be hard in Chicago, and you can always head up to CCOM and chat up the DO faculty.

Alas, my school only takes US citizens and permanent residents.

No I have never considered DO schools. And sorry but I did not keep DO schools into my consideration for this cycle at least.
I am more looking into what I should do to increase my chances at MD schools.

 

[gyngyn]

You mean Case? I'm from Feinberg. I'm doing my Ph.D work at Feinberg.

Well, actually Case interviewed and matriculated (marginally) more internationals than NW (6 vs 4).
Your odds will depend on how NW views internal candidates.

 

[LizzyM]

Most schools send their interview invites in a dribble over many months so it is not "over" until late November, or even later. I know at least one school where the adcom members are not given any instructions on handling international applicants any differently from domestic applicants. And whether they matriculate or not may also depend on whether they choose a different offer (there may be a small pool of schools competing for a small pool of international applicants) or if they are unable to get a visa.

If you are still "alive" at 36 schools I am with @gyngyn, it will be shocking if you don't have at least one interview by late November and at least one offer by May 1. Sit back, relax and enjoy the summer while it lasts... it will be winter soon enough in Chicago.

 

[Iz_FtB]

Canadian applicant completing his PhD here, LM 80-84. 3 rejections so far, expecting many more. Hopefully we make it there in the end!

 

[FindersFee5]

You mean Case? I'm from Feinberg. I'm doing my Ph.D work at Feinberg.

If you did undergraduate at NU, that might not actually be great. I've heard they fill up most of their NU spots with people who do the direct to MD program, so they're actually biased against NU applicants.

 

[xianghui]

Update: another rejection... I'm starting to get used to this lottery thing...

 

[gyngyn]

Update: another rejection... I'm starting to get used to this lottery thing...

Your day will come.

 

[PeruvianMD]

don't lose hope! I'm an international student myself and my mcat doesn't even compare to yours lol. The interviews will come. I already have 5 II so far, so it's possible! you got this.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

don't lose hope! I'm an international student myself and my mcat doesn't even compare to yours lol. The interviews will come. I already have 5 II so far, so it's possible! you got this.

Did you mean for this post to be encouraging?