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Attending1985

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Just need to vent. An NP in my practice left. Taking over her patients and feeling overwhelmed with the over diagnosis of bipolar disorder, ADHD and indiscriminant use of stimulants, benzos and antipsychotics. Seeing around 4 of her previous patients per day and totally exhausted dealing with this. There should be more regulation on the use of these medications.

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That would definitely be nice, but I wouldn't imagine it changing anytime soon. I've trained/worked in 3 different states, all in 3 different geographic regions, and these things are fairly standard where ever you go. At my current job, primary care docs are especially lenient with the Xanax, regardless of age and any real evaluation of anxiety. Psychiatry here is generally better about the benzos, but they will hand out stimulants pretty readily.
 
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Just need to vent. An NP in my practice left. Taking over her patients and feeling overwhelmed with the over diagnosis of bipolar disorder, ADHD and indiscriminant use of stimulants, benzos and antipsychotics. Seeing around 4 of her previous patients per day and totally exhausted dealing with this. There should be more regulation on the use of these medications.
We're (patients) going to get bills passed. You can help by submitting testimony to the Massachusetts legislature which is considering a bill that would protect patients from uninformed use of benzodiazepines:

Call to Action: MA Bill H.3594 for Informed Benzodiazepine Use - Mad In America

In my opinion benzodiazepines are the pharmaceutical scandal of our time and unrecognized because the ills they cause can so easily be ascribed to many other maladies, physical or mental (or lumped in with opioids). You had thalidomide come out around the same time as benzos and that took years to regulate, but it was regulated because you could see dead and malformed babies. Benzos have been blockbusters for 57 years now (with still new approvals for them in 2017), and it's going to take a massive amount of energy to shift this inertia in the opposite direction.
 
My next patient in on Xanax, Prozac, stimulant, zyprexa and Depakote. Ugh.
 
What diagnosis dictates that treatment plan?
Pick one.

But you’re likely asking the wrong question as it is diagnoses and not diagnosis. Bipolar disorder, schizoaffective disorder, ADHD, panic disorder and major depressive disorder.
 
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We're (patients) going to get bills passed. You can help by submitting testimony to the Massachusetts legislature which is considering a bill that would protect patients from uninformed use of benzodiazepines:

Call to Action: MA Bill H.3594 for Informed Benzodiazepine Use - Mad In America

In my opinion benzodiazepines are the pharmaceutical scandal of our time and unrecognized because the ills they cause can so easily be ascribed to many other maladies, physical or mental (or lumped in with opioids). You had thalidomide come out around the same time as benzos and that took years to regulate, but it was regulated because you could see dead and malformed babies. Benzos have been blockbusters for 57 years now (with still new approvals for them in 2017), and it's going to take a massive amount of energy to shift this inertia in the opposite direction.

Not sure that thalidomide took years to regulate. I believe the FDA never approved it here. Frances Oldham Kelsey - Wikipedia
 
What diagnosis dictates that treatment plan?

Oh, that's easy. They're sad, so Prozac, but, like, really sad so Zyprexa too. Then they're anxious so they get Xanax. They also have trouble concentrating so you obviously need a stimulant. And then sometimes they go from being really happy to really sad all of a sudden and do stuff impulsively, so Depakote. This psych stuff is really easy, especially if you don't waste your time with years of residency that nobody really needs anyway.

That said, I have definitely seen idiotic polypharmacy like this from MDs as well, it's just a matter of proportional likelihood of prescriber terminal degree given the med list.
 
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I hear you, happens all the time. As soon as I'm debt free I'm going part time, maybe getting out entirely.

I've decided that my exit strategy will be to run for office.

I'll find a politician who's promising to help solve the opiate crisis, then I'll run on a platform of "My opponent wants to take away your opioids!"

I'll win in a landslide.
 
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ADHD, Bipolar I Disorder, GAD

Unlucky person, right there...

Parsimony tells me this says, chronic...uh, life problems.

I realize medicine was probably better/easier when there was more trust and respect for the MD and the doctor-patient relationship...but I always wonder how people became so readily willing to accept such nonsense into there bodies as some kind of necessity for managing their lives?

Protect the temple and all....

Maybe that's an outdated concept/mindset now?
 
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but I always wonder how people became so readily willing to accept such nonsense into there bodies as some kind of necessity for managing their lives?
Because every time they take that Depakotw it’s a reminder to recognize that all those times you punched your girlfriend was because you black out and go manic secondary to a source external of your volitional control — your chemical imbalance — and it’s your doctor’s responsibility to keep that under control and make sure the meds don’t “stop working.”

It’s actually quite easy to see why people would accept such nonsense into their bodies.
 
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Because every time they take that Depakotw it’s a reminder to recognize that all those times you punched your girlfriend was because you black out and go manic secondary to a source external of your volitional control — your chemical imbalance — and it’s your doctor’s responsibility to keep that under control and make sure the meds don’t “stop working.”

It’s actually quite easy to see why people would accept such nonsense into their bodies.

Of course I am acquainted with human nature--the easy way out and all.

I guess what I'm saying is.... the more I see this, and I actually don't see patients clinically that much anymore in my current role/job....I wonder when society made this shift? 60s, 70's, 80s?

What role did clinical psychiatry and clinical psychology have in this? Maybe was raised in some kind of "bubble"...I dont know?
 
yes patient has extremely poor frustration tolerance. Basically immature and unable to follow rules of adulthood like showing up for work when he feels people aren’t “respecting” him. He’s been victimized because he places his trust in doctors and they dope him up instead of using common sense. Makes me want to walk away from the field because let’s face it we’re swimming against the current. Please give me some hope
 
yes patient has extremely poor frustration tolerance. Basically immature and unable to follow rules of adulthood like showing up for work when he feels people aren’t “respecting” him. He’s been victimized because he places his trust in doctors and they dope him up instead of using common sense. Makes me want to walk away from the field because let’s face it we’re swimming against the current. Please give me some hope

Honestly, for me it's about holding on to the little victories. Many of my patients are not going to get better (degenerative disease), or have been extremely mismanaged by healthcare with their psychiatric issues, or have just been dealt a really ****ty hand in life. But now and then, you have patients where you make a fairly significant impact for the patient and/or their family. Hold on to those moments. If you get dragged down by all of the negative, you'll burn out in a few short years.

Help where you can. Some people can make huge gains in QOL. For some people, the best you can do is help them tread water. Optimism and idealism turn to realism and pragmatism pretty early on in mental health.
 
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Not sure that thalidomide took years to regulate. I believe the FDA never approved it here. Frances Oldham Kelsey - Wikipedia
I was averaging it out in my head in the countries I remembered it having devastating effects. Been a while since I read about it, but I think it was UK and Germany where it took several years to ban it, and Spain was the laggard that waited decades. But yes, you're right about the FDA never having approved it. A problem with the perception of benzos I was pointing out is that they didn't have the same visibly shocking effects. Even today it can be hard to see, and tolerance/withdrawal can be attributed to the same conditions for which a person was originally prescribed them (which leads to their continued prescription). And since the first approval of Librium, benzodiazepines have only become more and more potent yet with each iteration advertised as less problematic than the last (Xanax was supposed to be a panacea because unlike Valium it didn't leave people "hungover" for days).

It's just extremely difficult to regulate something that is so widely perceived as benevolent. There a good number of psychiatrists who extol benzodiazepines:

“Benzos,” says Stephen Stahl, chairman of the Neuroscience Education Institute in Carlsbad, California, and a psychiatrist who consults to drug companies, “are the greatest things since Post Toasties. They work well. They’re very cheap. Their effectiveness on anxiety is profound.”

Listening to Xanax
The only time outside of this forum that I really hear people understand the gravity of the problem of benzodiazepines are in patient forums or among people who confuse benzodiazepines with opioids.

EDIT: Here is Stahl in greater detail:
"So, go ahead and feel less guilty about combining GABAergic and serotonergic treatments for anxiety. You have lots of company and a scientific rationale for this practice."
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1858/842428817661940cf410aebf5b9cff13d690.pdf
Based on what I've seen on this forum, there is a dissonance between "patients are bad and just want a benzo to solve their problems: argh!" and "Stahl is a great thought leader of psychiatry."
 
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Based on what I've seen on this forum, there is a dissonance between "patients are bad and just want a benzo to solve their problems: argh!" and "Stahl is a great thought leader of psychiatry."

I think you are reading a different forum than I am. There is another thread at this very moment complaining about how one of his books is useless and boring, and every time he is mentioned people suggest the use of other resources instead.
 
Dr. Stahl has an impressive marketing infrastructure behind him so it is easy for people to tag him as a thought leader. Just because his ideas are in glossy pamphlets and projected onto large screens in front of large audiences doesn't mean that we agree with everything he says. There are a lot of respected impressive teachers who are right only 90% of the time. Besides, things change, remember rapid neuroleptization?

Benzos have a role in the acute management of many psychiatric illnesses, but I almost never use them chronically. The concept that tolerance develops to the sedation and impaired coordination, but not to the anxiolytic properties was more the mantra before we had so many well tolerated alternatives.
 
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OP I TOTALLY get what you are going through. I just went through that the past few months and many of the posters are familiar with that. ADHD was way over diagnosed. She was also using stimulants as "augmentation" or treatment of side effects for other medications. Whenever a patient had c/o side effects like anxiety, palpitations, etc., she always blamed the SSRI and would lower that. Pts often ended up just on 60mg/day of Adderall IR! W...T...F! Frankly, I laid down the rules to the patients I inherited, if they want their stimulants, they need to let me do a Barkley, get appropriate developmental history from their parents, and do random UDS. And no, I am not upping their stimulants further. If indicated, neuropsych testing. They dropped like flies, most of them never to be seen again. Good riddance. It's really hard to talk these folks out of it when their brains are flooded with dopamine. Of course they are gonna feel good! There's still one more person on my panel I am having a bear of a time with. She is begging for her Adderall back for her fatigue. And because she had such a pleasant experience on it, she thinks that NP is some psychopharm guru. Well...she has four kids and practically raises them on her own. No effing sh*$ she's tired, that and the handy dandy rebound fatigue she got from being on Adderall in the first place, it should have never been started. Adderall ain't gonna solve your problems honey...

Frankly, meds like benzos and stimulants should have more regulations on them if we can do that. I don't trust a lot of PCPs with it either. But, I know that access can be an issue too. On the other hand, I can't help but feel that putting more prescription pads in people's hands may be counter productive. For the longest time I had tons of people calling my clinic wanting someone to refill their 120mg Vyvanse a day. I sh&* you not. It feels like this stimulant thing is getting worse in the community.
 
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And because she had such a pleasant experience on it, she thinks that NP is some psychopharm guru.

We had a particularly problematic prescriber at my current employer who has tons of patients who are not getting better, having falls now that they're old, etc because of his loose benzo prescribing. All of his former patients laud him as a "genius." I do wonder if the physicians in these cases get off on the outward expressions of gratitude from these patients as much as it is due to their incompetence with a prescription pad.
 
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Her note consists of a list of diagnoses with symptoms and treatment as if the patients symptoms exist in discrete syndromes that do not interact witheachother. It’s just really wearing on me.
 
We had a particularly problematic prescriber at my current employer who has tons of patients who are not getting better, having falls now that they're old, etc because of his loose benzo prescribing. All of his former patients laud him as a "genius." I do wonder if the physicians in these cases get off on the outward expressions of gratitude from these patients as much as it is due to their incompetence with a prescription pad.
Yes some have said she saved me life finally getting “the right combination of medications.”
 
Can't argue with that! She covered all the receptors didn't she? lol.

"As soon as they get my meds "straightened out" I wont need to "self medicate" with ...[insert alcohol or drug of choice here.]"

The whole time I'm thinking...the whole "self-medication hypothesis" of substance abuse is on weak empirical footing. No one wants to hear this.
 
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Can't argue with that! She covered all the receptors didn't she? lol.
I work only with kids now, and I see this with plenty of parents too. They seem to think our treatments are so precise that one medication will target a certain set of symptoms only and nothing else, and then another med hits up another specific target. They worry a lot about the timing of meds too (ie which specific hour to take them), despite them taking days to weeks to have beneficial effects.

I try to explain that our knowledge of the neurology involved is nowhere near as good/advanced as they imagine, but for some reason they don't believe me. It feels so strange.
 
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Just need to vent. An NP in my practice left. Taking over her patients and feeling overwhelmed with the over diagnosis of bipolar disorder, ADHD and indiscriminant use of stimulants, benzos and antipsychotics. Seeing around 4 of her previous patients per day and totally exhausted dealing with this. There should be more regulation on the use of these medications.

Agree. The pattern with NPs is the out of control high dose Stimulants, benzos, as well as multiple antipsychotics (or multiple low-dose antipsychotics). You should see how bad it is here in Arizona, where NPs don't need supervision.
--having sedation from your anti-depressant? why here is some Ritalin
--can't sleep? here is some Ambien+Xanax/Klonopin
--can't focus?: Adderall
and list goes on.

I applaud you for actually correctly diagnosing, having UDS, collateral. UDS works great, I'm amazed how many don't come back. It is very painful to go through process of explaining why the stimulants are not appropriate, or why the high dose benzos are not appropriate, to a patient who was on this stuff for years.

Also very painful is people on medical marijuana. Who get upset when I tell them I will not prescribe controlled substances to them, and that cannabis impairs cognition.

I eventually stopped expanding so much energy explaining this stuff, and instead when someone comes on inappropriate stimulants/benzos I explain my rules and expectations, no long term benzos (they will be tapered off); ADHD diagnosis will be evaluated, and no doses above max recommended, UDS first before anything prescribed, controlled substance agreement.
Setting limits, and saying "no" when appropriate works great too and saves lots of energy.
 
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Setting clear expectations and boundaries up front especially if backed by written clinic policy is a great thing. Although I find that frame reasonable, I do also think it's excessive for a lot of people who do have a clear indication and benefit from simulants. Nonetheless, I don't think providers should be doing things they are uncomfortable with. Most people have other options, and we should know when it is in a patient's interest to refer out.

As to the discussion about your clinical decision making, I think a big part of this conflict is expecting this discussion to be one where you convince the patient you are right. I find it more effective to try to set it up, e.g. by asking permission to explain what you are thinking, such that the patient knows their task is to understand your position without obligation to agree with it. If I can't get someone to allow me to explain myself independent of them, then this is a therapeutic boundary I enforce. Ultimately, they can't get a stimulant/benzo/whatever from you without your prescription. If they cannot adequately participate in a discussion about the treatment's risks and benefits, then document that. And, of course, make sure the patient is safe.
 
"As soon as they get my meds "straightened out" I wont need to "self medicate" with ...[insert alcohol or drug of choice here.]"

The whole time I'm thinking...the whole "self-medication hypothesis" of substance abuse is on weak empirical footing. No one wants to hear this.

As an aside, there's a part of me that doesn't really have a problem with someone being a "dry alcoholic." (Benzos instead of alcohol.) At least they're not going to kill their liver. Not that I would actively prescribe that way, but these are the last folks that I think about tapering on the inpatient unit.

I'd be interested if some feel that we should be taking these folks off of their benzos? (Edit: Inpatient or outpatient.)
 
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As an aside, there's a part of me that doesn't really have a problem with someone being a "dry alcoholic." (Benzos instead of alcohol.) At least they're not going to kill their liver. Not that I would actively prescribe that way, but these are the last folks that I think about tapering on the inpatient unit.

I'd be interested if some feel that we should be taking these folks off of their benzos?

I think it's really important to define the scope of inpatient treatment and focus on what's in their immediate interest in order to get back to outpatient care. I will usually try to confer an assessment and recommendation about these kinds of things so at least a patient understands what you think is in their chronic interest. Sometimes, systemically, things that might generally be more appropriate to do as outpatient (e.g. non-urgent medical workup) ought to be done inpatient if you reasonably expect system barriers to prevent it from happening outside the hospital.
 
So is everyone struggling with this? I work
I think I'll join you.
I’m lucky enough to work part time and it still sucks. The medicalization of emotional/social dysfunction is killing me. Seeing people who struggle with poor social skills, lack of motivation, poor frustration tolerance who have been told they have a psychiatric problem typically bipolar disorder is the worst. I’m sure it makes life hard to have a crappy personality and deplorable role models but medications are not the answer. Then you even have ****ty therapists telling them to go ask for medications and apply for disability.
 
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So is everyone struggling with this? I work

I’m lucky enough to work part time and it still sucks. The medicalization of emotional/social dysfunction is killing me. Seeing people who struggle with poor social skills, lack of motivation, poor frustration tolerance who have been told they have a psychiatric problem typically bipolar disorder is the worst. I’m sure it makes life hard to have a crappy personality and deplorable role models but medications are not the answer. Then you even have ****ty therapists telling them to go ask for medications and apply for disability.
Yes. The therapist is afforded the protection from unpleasant interaction with the patient by collusion and kicking the can to us. At least when I say it’s a problem best addressed by therapy it’s actually true, but met with lots of resistance.

I can do just fine with people new to the system, and in 10-20 years they’ll be better off. The bigger problem are these people you pick up who have had 20-30 years with a colluding psychiatrist. I take the long-term approach, hoping for small gains along the way, but mostly trying to avoid the conditioning of always adding something new, but this work burns me out. I prefer treating psychiatric disturbance secondary to something that’s not an iatrogenic etiology or at least iatrogenic exacerbation.
 
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As an aside, there's a part of me that doesn't really have a problem with someone being a "dry alcoholic." (Benzos instead of alcohol.) At least they're not going to kill their liver. Not that I would actively prescribe that way, but these are the last folks that I think about tapering on the inpatient unit.

I'd be interested if some feel that we should be taking these folks off of their benzos? (Edit: Inpatient or outpatient.)
Obviously I can't answer as a doctor, but one potential problem with continuing long-term prescribing is that you as a provider will eventually not be that person's provider, either because you retire or move, etc. That leaves the patient in a situation where they may have to abruptly taper or, in some cases of uninformed physicians, go cold-turkey. I personally don't believe a person should be forced to taper, but I think giving a person all of the information including the fact that a future prescriber may do that is ideal. One of the reasons people decide to voluntarily taper is to do it in a way that they believe is safer and more comfortable versus potentially being forced in the future to do it in a way that induces more kindling of the brain and more intolerable side effects.

This is an interesting article on why people decide to try to stop taking benzodiazepines:
High-dose benzodiazepine dependence: a qualitative study of patients’ perception on cessation and withdrawal
 
Agree. The pattern with NPs is the out of control high dose Stimulants, benzos, as well as multiple antipsychotics (or multiple low-dose antipsychotics). You should see how bad it is here in Arizona, where NPs don't need supervision.
--having sedation from your anti-depressant? why here is some Ritalin
--can't sleep? here is some Ambien+Xanax/Klonopin
--can't focus?: Adderall
and list goes on.
Cmon, man, these NPs are IMPROVING ACCESS to psychiatry! Everyone knows that all psychiatry really is about is just pushing pills on people, so as long as we have a Prescriber who can hand out a few prescriptions for controlled substances to every patient, we can pat ourselves on the back for having Done Something about the problem of a shortage of psychiatrists.

Seriously, this is a really sad commentary on what’s happened to medicine. We’ve all seen these problems with NPs yet there are powerful organizations pushing to give NPs independent ability to practice medicine without supervision in more and more states. What will it take to rein this in?
 
Of course I am acquainted with human nature--the easy way out and all.

I guess what I'm saying is.... the more I see this, and I actually don't see patients clinically that much anymore in my current role/job....I wonder when society made this shift? 60s, 70's, 80s?

What role did clinical psychiatry and clinical psychology have in this? Maybe was raised in some kind of "bubble"...I dont know?

Maybe I've just just had a really bad run, but I've been dealing with the 'pills are the answer to everything' brigade since at least the 1980s. Even on the odd occasion when I found someone who seemed to be interested in taking more of a counselling approach, they turned out to be rescuer types who would just start throwing pills at the problem when I was getting better fast enough to satisfy their needs to be a white knight type. One of the reasons I've decided not to transfer to a new Psychiatrist when therapy with my current Psych ends in a few months time (moving interstate), apart from just wanting to give things a go by myself for a while, is because I honestly don't know if I trust another Psychiatrist not to just end up getting script happy like all the rest.
 
Is there any data about different prescribing behaviors between different providers types? E.g., PCP vs psychiatry, vs NP and the like? I'd be interested in if it's more anecdotal or if there are association there. Because, I don't really see much of a difference when it comes to benzos, opiates, and stims in my settings. I'd be curious if there were any actual differences in this, or say geographically (we have opiate data, just haven't seen the other two in this area).
 
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Cmon, man, these NPs are IMPROVING ACCESS to psychiatry! Everyone knows that all psychiatry really is about is just pushing pills on people, so as long as we have a Prescriber who can hand out a few prescriptions for controlled substances to every patient, we can pat ourselves on the back for having Done Something about the problem of a shortage of psychiatrists.

Seriously, this is a really sad commentary on what’s happened to medicine. We’ve all seen these problems with NPs yet there are powerful organizations pushing to give NPs independent ability to practice medicine without supervision in more and more states. What will it take to rein this in?
I honestly feel that in 90% of cases no care is superior to poor care
 
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I honestly feel that in 90% of cases no care is superior to poor care

I very much disagree with this. Care is better but because of effects that don't have to do with the treatment prescribed itself. I would agree that, much of the time, care with prescription of placebo would be better.
 
This article came out today. Long-term benzo use as standard of care for panic disorder according to this psychiatrist, who is the Chief of Psychiatric Services at Aiken Barnwell Mental Health Center:

MIND MATTERS: Psychiatry A-Z – benzos

First of all, if a prescriber has known you for many years has made a diagnosis of something like panic disorder and has been successfully treating you with a benzodiazepine for many years, they are likely to continue to do so. Taking a stable, moderate dose of Ativan or Xanax is most likely safe, effective and less expensive for you than some other options at our disposal.
My question is: Is there some research showing people taking a stable, moderate dose of benzodiazepines for many years is safe and effective? What about the increased all-cause mortality? What about the increased Alzheimer's risk? What about the studies showing the anxiolytic effects stopped after a few months and that the drugs became anxiogenic? I am willing to assume there is something I don't know when professionals hold such dissonant views.
 
This article came out today. Long-term benzo use as standard of care for panic disorder according to this psychiatrist, who is the Chief of Psychiatric Services at Aiken Barnwell Mental Health Center:

MIND MATTERS: Psychiatry A-Z – benzos

First of all, if a prescriber has known you for many years has made a diagnosis of something like panic disorder and has been successfully treating you with a benzodiazepine for many years, they are likely to continue to do so. Taking a stable, moderate dose of Ativan or Xanax is most likely safe, effective and less expensive for you than some other options at our disposal.
My question is: Is there some research showing people taking a stable, moderate dose of benzodiazepines for many years is safe and effective? What about the increased all-cause mortality? What about the increased Alzheimer's risk? What about the studies showing the anxiolytic effects stopped after a few months and that the drugs became anxiogenic? I am willing to assume there is something I don't know when professionals hold such dissonant views.

We practice evidence based medicine where evidence exists. Even in the studies demonstrating the risks you have described, it is really quite impossible to control for all confounders that might contribute to the risk. More importantly, this does not speak a word on benefit. We do not do any intervention (even asking a question) without knowing that there is some degree of risk involved. In all cases, intervention should be chosen when benefit exceeds risk. Unfortunately, the evidence is most often quite scant.

I do not agree with that statement, but I don't find it implicitly wrong either. Part of this is believing the best outcome for anxiety disorders is gained psychotherapeutically wherein the patient learns that they are in control of their body. That is not always achievable or preferable to the patient, so I don't think it's always wrong to pursue a different goal. But I see the claim as generally dubious. What's more likely in my eye is that the treatment relationship and belief in the power of the treatment account for the observed benefit.
 
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Yes. The therapist is afforded the protection from unpleasant interaction with the patient by collusion and kicking the can to us. At least when I say it’s a problem best addressed by therapy it’s actually true, but met with lots of resistance.

True that. Don't even get me started on insomnia. I had a 77 yo woman referred to me on opiates, two sleep aids and other meds with sedating properties because her therapist said her insomnia is "biological" and needs to be "fixed" by an MD. Seriously?! If you're not well versed in CBT-I, sleep restriction therapy, or other modalities for insomnia just admit it. More sleep aids ain't gonna help.
 
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True that. Don't even get me started on insomnia. I had a 77 yo woman referred to me on opiates, two sleep aids and other meds with sedating properties because her therapist said her insomnia is "biological" and needs to be "fixed" by an MD. Seriously?! If you're not well versed in CBT-I, sleep restriction therapy, or other modalities for insomnia just admit it. More sleep aids ain't gonna help.

Well, it is biological ... of sorts. The sarcastic observation would be everything with sleep and emotions is biological based because it's derived from an organ called the brain which has neuroanatomy and neurochemistry.

I'll go roll my eyes at myself now for you.

But yeah, the therapist isn't too well versed in insomnia and long-term treatment with BZD/BRZA is not terribly indicated.
 
We practice evidence based medicine where evidence exists. Even in the studies demonstrating the risks you have described, it is really quite impossible to control for all confounders that might contribute to the risk. More importantly, this does not speak a word on benefit. We do not do any intervention (even asking a question) without knowing that there is some degree of risk involved. In all cases, intervention should be chosen when benefit exceeds risk. Unfortunately, the evidence is most often quite scant.

I do not agree with that statement, but I don't find it implicitly wrong either. Part of this is believing the best outcome for anxiety disorders is gained psychotherapeutically wherein the patient learns that they are in control of their body. That is not always achievable or preferable to the patient, so I don't think it's always wrong to pursue a different goal. But I see the claim as generally dubious. What's more likely in my eye is that the treatment relationship and belief in the power of the treatment account for the observed benefit.

I saw a 75 year old lady today who had been on Valium QID since the 1980s and was encouraged by various professionals effectively saying - you got this! You got a bottle in your pocket and just keep taking that pill. The old doc's encouraged this type of dependence and behavior and it has trained a lot the older patient's that this is correct. From a point of view, it was correct but no longer.
 
True that. Don't even get me started on insomnia. I had a 77 yo woman referred to me on opiates, two sleep aids and other meds with sedating properties because her therapist said her insomnia is "biological" and needs to be "fixed" by an MD. Seriously?! If you're not well versed in CBT-I, sleep restriction therapy, or other modalities for insomnia just admit it. More sleep aids ain't gonna help.

While that;s very possible, i think we all know patients also often hear what they want to hear too. I would have a "So, help me understand..."convo with that therapist to investigate this. To have a licensed therapist to believe that they cant do anything with insomnia means their training was garbage.
 
While that;s very possible, i think we all know patients also often hear what they want to hear too. I would have a "So, help me understand..."convo with that therapist to investigate this. To have a licensed therapist to believe that they cant do anything with insomnia means their training was garbage.

A therapist not knowing what to do, is frustrated and turfs it back to a MD isn't terribly helpful either.
 
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