Fulfilling science prereqs with non-science bg for vet school?

[sungieality]

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I have a question for you all. I'm writing on behalf of a friend. He graduated with a BA in Economics, but now he's strongly considering a career change to veterinary medicine.

1) Are there any postbaccalaureate programs in CA designed especially for those without science backgrounds wanting to go to veterinary school?
2) If there aren't, is it possible to complete all the science prerequisites at community college, or does it look unfavorably on him since he didn't take the courseload at a 4-yr university? Many of the 4-yr universities aren't accepting postbac applications anymore because of the budget crisis in CA.
3) All this is in regards to CA only.

Thank you in advance for your help! I did a search but I didn't find anything that helped me answer these questions.

 

[NotAngie]

I don't know about CA programs, but I can address the community college question.

I am in a similar situation (degree in psychology, very few science classes). Everything that I read and everyone I asked said that it's not a good idea to take your pre-reqs at a community college.

Some schools don't accept them at all. If they are accepted, they don't view them favorably.

Can he go to the same school where he got his undergrad? Sometimes they are more willing to let you take post-bacc classes after you've earned your degree there.

The other set back I will mention is financial aid. If you are taking classes as a post-bacc in a non-degree seeking program the financial aid options are nonexistent. You can't get federal aid if you're not seeking a degree and private loans for that purpose are virtually impossible to get. Be prepared to pay out of pocket for classes.

Edited to add: Look for post-bacc programs that are geared towards pre-med. It's a lot of the same or similar classes usually. The program I'm using (University of Maryland) is geared towards pre-med but has the classes I need.

 

[primatevetjess]

I'm sorry, but all of those people telling you that you can't take courses at a community college are incredibly misguided. Sure, there are schools that don't view them favorably, but it is absolutely possible to get accepted to a fantastic school with a lot of community college work on your transcript. I took about 90% of my pre-reqs at a community college, usually part-time while I worked full-time. The only one that wasn't offered was genetics, but my CC had a deal with a local university and I was able to take it there for $10 🙂eek🙂 without going through all the acceptance hoops. Oh, and I don't have a bachelor's, which is also apparently a black mark when applying.

My results: accepted to my in-state (UC Davis), and accepted to two out-of-state schools and waitlisted at one.

Where is your friend located? If he's in Southern CA, I very strongly suggest Los Angeles Pierce College. They have a fantastic pre-vet program and extremely high success rates (12 out of 15 accepted this cycle).

 

[Trilt]

I'm sorry, but all of those people telling you that you can't take courses at a community college are incredibly misguided. Sure, there are schools that don't view them favorably, but it is absolutely possible to get accepted to a fantastic school with a lot of community college work on your transcript. I took about 90% of my pre-reqs at a community college, usually part-time while I worked full-time. The only one that wasn't offered was genetics, but my CC had a deal with a local university and I was able to take it there for $10 🙂eek🙂 without going through all the acceptance hoops. Oh, and I don't have a bachelor's, which is also apparently a black mark when applying.

My results: accepted to my in-state (UC Davis), and accepted to two out-of-state schools and waitlisted at one.

Where is your friend located? If he's in Southern CA, I very strongly suggest Los Angeles Pierce College. They have a fantastic pre-vet program and extremely high success rates (12 out of 15 accepted this cycle).

Tell that to LVT2DVM, who was rejected from OKSU because one of her community college courses was a 200 level. Justified, until you realize that the school had no problems with courses from other 4-year colleges being similarly "lower division."

This may just be a single instance, but it has as much force as your single instance of being accepted to multiple colleges with mainly community college pre-requisites.

There are always different situation, but in my general opinion (and I believe a decent amount of the forum will agree)... if at all feasible, try and avoid the stigma of community colleges and just take your courses at a 4-year.

 

[CatVet2Be]

I took the majority of my prereqs at a community college as well and I also was accepted at 1 and waitlisted at 2 colleges in my first cycle. I know the general concensus is that University classes are looked upon better than cc colleges but it doesn't automatically rule you out. CC classes are much more affordable and allow you to go to school while working full time. I think a cc is a great place to start working on your prereqs, I know a lot of people for whom it's worked out well.

 

[Pomona2006]

I'm sorry, but despite LVT2DVM's situation, I'm going to have to back up jjohnston on this one...

NotAngie and I are very similar - psychology major but I graduated from my undergrad school with ZERO science courses.

I took all but 4 of my science courses at a community college (3 of which are required by UC Davis to be from a 4-year school, so I am taking them NOW on top of 2 CC courses to finish everything before I start up at Davis).

When I started taking my science pre-reqs I heard exactly what NotAngie was did - "CC courses look bad" - but I did it anyways for multiple reasons (money being one).
My reasoning for not doing a formal post-bac program (or all courses through a 4-year school) was that I couldn't afford to commute and it was too expensive. Instead, I decided that I would do most of my pre-reqs at a CC and take the others through distance education courses. I set out to get straight As in both CC and distance courses so that adcoms would not have any reason to doubt my competence. That has worked out amazingly for me. Of course, I did use the explanation section of VMCAS to explain why the CC courses.

I did have success just like jjohnston - accepted to 2 of the 3 schools I applied to 15 months after starting my science pre-reqs. And no one mentioned my CC courses in my interviews.
________________

But...to the OP...I do know that formal post-bac programs for the pre-med folks (which usually works for us pre-vet folks) exist at USC and Scripps College in Claremont, CA. That's only helpful if you're friend is in SoCal. However, if your friend is in NorCal, I suggest taking some courses through Berkeley Extension. I am not sure if they have a form post-bac program, but lots of people seem to use the Extension program at Cal.

Hope that helps - and good luck!

 

[eatpinkpenguins]

.your case

 

[Truth74]

I spent a really long time getting credits at a cc. It was due to cost and work/family scheduling.

I guess it depends on which cc you go to. If you go to a cc that is a sister school to the university that you want to go to (say a cc in the same city as the 4-yr) and are taking classes with underclassmen from said 4-yr, then they won't look at those classes as any different. If they have to look up the syllabi for your course and figure out if it can be applied, it may be a tougher road.

I would check with the schools you want to apply to and/or transfer to.

 

[bunnity]

It depends on the school one is applying to. From what you guys are saying it seems like UC Davis is fine with CC classes. It seems that OkSU and Illinois don't like them, and I'm pretty sure Penn doesn't either. It could very well depend on the state - perhaps CA community colleges have a better reputation than those in some other states. The OP's friend is also considering taking all their sciences classes at a CC which might be considered differently from only taking one or two. I think the OP should tell their friend to ask the admissions committees at the schools (s)he wants to apply to - it would be a shame to waste all that time and money only to find out that schools wouldn't accept CC classes (or find out that they could have gone to a CC and not spent all the money at a four year place).

 

[primatevetjess]

Tell that to LVT2DVM, who was rejected from OKSU because one of her community college courses was a 200 level. Justified, until you realize that the school had no problems with courses from other 4-year colleges being similarly "lower division."

This may just be a single instance, but it has as much force as your single instance of being accepted to multiple colleges with mainly community college pre-requisites.

There are always different situation, but in my general opinion (and I believe a decent amount of the forum will agree)... if at all feasible, try and avoid the stigma of community colleges and just take your courses at a 4-year.

Of course there are schools that will look down on community college courses, I believe I said that in my post. And of course there are those rejected with CC courses, there are also those rejected with bachelor's and masters degrees from great universities. Also, I'm not a single instance, my community college has an excellent track record, with 12 out of 15 accepted this cycle, not to mention all of the previous years.

Yes, in a perfect world, we would all have the time and money to attend a 4-year university. That's obviously the better option, and I would've if I had been able. My point was only that it absolutely possible to be accepted to vet school with a lot of CC course work, you just have to apply to the right schools. And as others have stated, it's usually more feasible for non-trads to go this route.

 

[Trilt]

The point I made with LVT2DVMs instance is that there are schools that out-right rejected a pre-requisite (and therefore the applicant) because it was a lower-level course offered at a community college. Even though that course (organic chemistry) was taught at the lower division in some of the other applicants' (4-year) schools, they singled out the community college for rejection.

As far as my overall way of looking at this: Getting into vet school is a damn difficult path. As I said in my post; if at all feasible, I would advocate not giving a school any reason to reject you as an applicant.

(I also agree that it depends on the community college, though. And I believe CA is a little different in that regard, with more "feeder" and large-scale CC programs than most states? I didn't remember this before posting first, but I believe somebody said something along those lines on another CA board.)

 

[sungieality]

Thank you everyone for your input. I'll forward this thread on to him. I advised him to try taking the prereqs at a 4-year university, but honestly most of the CSUs where we looked don't allow postbacs or insist upon pursuing another degree, which to me seems a waste of time and money. I think he would want to stay with the CA schools if possible, so I'll look into the Pierce College that somebody recommended, since he's from LA.

Pomona2006, how did you take those few courses that were required to be from a 4 year university? What I mean is, did the school allow you to just take those few classes, knowing that you weren't pursuing a degree but just fulfilling prereqs for professional school?

Thank you again for all your replies!

 

[Pomona2006]

most of the CSUs where we looked don't allow postbacs or insist upon pursuing another degree...

Just a thought...because I think someone (maybe david?) on here pursued a second degree at a 4-year school so that he could get priority in registering for classes. Take the ones you NEED for vet school first and foremost...and if you get in before you finish the second degree, then who cares, right?

Pomona2006, how did you take those few courses that were required to be from a 4 year university? What I mean is, did the school allow you to just take those few classes, knowing that you weren't pursuing a degree but just fulfilling prereqs for professional school

A lot of people on this forum have done the distance education courses - that's actually how I learned of them. I've taken courses through Colorado State University, UC Berkeley, and the University of New England. When you go through distance education they let you take just that one course if need be. I've never had anyone from those schools even ask if I had the pre-requisites for those courses.

Here are some links:
http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/cat/online.html
http://www.learn.colostate.edu/onlinedistance/undergraduate-courses.dot
http://www.une.edu/com/online/

I'm sure there are many other schools that offer online distance ed courses for credit - perhaps some other folks can help you out if need be. But a simple google search can do wonders 🙂

 

[gracietiger]

most UCs offer an "open campus" program. i am currently completing my prereqs at UC Davis. i am not a matriculated student, which means i am the LAST person to be able to get registered for the course. even though this is a pain in the butt, i have been able to register for all my desired courses so far.
i believe that many of the UCs, like Davis, don't even allow a person to obtain a second bachelor's, so that may not even be a possibility.
a post-bac program would certainly be the easiest way to go, but they are not cheap, at all. taking the courses through an open campus type of program is also not nearly as cheap as at a CC, but it is more affordable. for me personally, i have to work for the university in order to get a discount on the courses. i am considering trying to take some of the other courses at a CC to save money so that i can work a veterinary-related job. i am surprised how many people have posted that they had success gaining admission to UC having completed the majority of their prereqs at a CC. to these people, i'm wondering if you had a TON of experience? was the rest of your app so overwhelmingly impressive that the admissions committee was able to easily overlook the fact that you completed your preqs at a CC? or, do you think it just didn't really matter?

 

[Pomona2006]

My opinion...

i'm wondering if you had a TON of experience?

I didn't have a ton of experience. I started volunteering in vet-related stuff in December of 2007 when I dropped out of grad school for psych. At application I probably had 600 hours of vet experience plus a bunch of animal experience.

was the rest of your app so overwhelmingly impressive that the admissions committee was able to easily overlook the fact that you completed your preqs at a CC?

I am not confident that that is the case. I had a good GPA, decent GREs and a bunch of extracurricular & job experience but I don't think that I was "overwhelmingly impressive." What I like to think (but is not likely the case) is that the fact that I had a BA with a good GPA from a good school and had gotten As in all my grad school and science courses since getting my BA mitigated the CC couses. What I wanted the adcoms to think was, "she would have gotten the same grades wherever she took these classes, but she just happened to take them at a CC because she's poor." haha 😀

To be honest, because I switched so recently and had so many pre-reqs to fill (as in when I hit submit on VMCAS I had completed a total of 5 pre-req science courses) I didn't plan on applying until the class of 2014, but I decided to apply to 3 schools for 2013 at the last minute just as a "practice run." I figured, worst case, I'd get some good feedback in my post-mortems.

I truly don't know how it worked out for me...I'm one of those people who fears showing up for orientation/classes in September and them saying "oh, we must have made a mistake..." 😎

 

[gracietiger]

Wow!!! Congrats! That is great! I bet you were surprised when your "practice run" turned into success!

Your story is very inspiring. I am currently very undecided about how to complete the rest of my prereqs, but I think I will start another post about that so I don't hijack this one...

Thanks for your input!

 

[gracietiger]

Wow!!! Congrats! That is great! I bet you were surprised when your "practice run" turned into success!

Your story is very inspiring. I am currently very undecided about how to complete the rest of my prereqs, but I think I will start another post about that so I don't hijack this one...

Thanks for your input!

 

[primatevetjess]

i am surprised how many people have posted that they had success gaining admission to UC having completed the majority of their prereqs at a CC. to these people, i'm wondering if you had a TON of experience? was the rest of your app so overwhelmingly impressive that the admissions committee was able to easily overlook the fact that you completed your preqs at a CC? or, do you think it just didn't really matter?

I personally don't believe that an application has to be so over-the-top incredible for them to "overlook" CC courses. I don't think they need to be "overlooked"... I hate the idea that just because they're at a CC means they're way easier. My first semester of physics was brutal, with a 5.5 hour comprehensive final. I worked my butt off in my physio class to get one of three As. And my ochem... oh boy. I frequently compared with a friend of mine taking it at a university and she didn't have to know it nearly as in depth as I did nor did she have to know as many details and mechanisms. CC courses can be hard, too! And as I mentioned earlier, no bachelor's for me and the only pre-reqs I didn't take at a CC are general bio and chem and genetics.

As for the rest of my app, my GPA from 10 years ago at a 4-year was 3.2, and my GPA at the CC is 3.94. Most of it was part-time while I worked full-time and volunteered for experience. I had ~1800 vet hours and 850 animal hours. My GRE is not great, actually just below the average for those accepted to UC Davis. I do think that my story helped, though.

I hate when people (in the real world, although the stigma certainly exists here) congratulate me on vet school, then ask where I did my undergrad. It always ends with their face dropping and them saying "Oh..." I suddenly become very unimpressive ! Before I applied, I once got into an arguement with my dentist, because he flat-out told me that it was impossible to get accepted into any graduate school without getting a bachelor's from a 4-year university.

 

[Ninnerfish]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents in regards to the schools insisting on pursuing a second degree as a postbacc. My bachelor's is in a field with pretty much 0 overlapping requirements with pre-vet (fine art) and I graduated having taken only a few freshman-level science classes. I moved back home and started taking the rest of my prereqs at another university where I was told that for them to bother looking at my transcripts (and therefore granting me senior status for registration instead of considering me a freshman with no credit hours) I had to pursue a major. So I just told my advisor to pick one for me. Who cares? I didn't bother trying to actually complete the major, just used it to get me into the classes I needed. Now that I've been accepted, it's all a moot point. Just tell the college what they need to hear to get them to do what you want.

Also, has your friend looked into taking the prereqs at a satellite campus of a university instead of a community college? At least where I went to school, most of the same classes were offered at the satellite campus, but they were cheaper and the class sizes were smaller. Then your friend could save money, but avoid the hassle of vet schools looking unfavorably at where he took his classes. Just a thought.

 

[NotAngie]

After reading this thread I will say that I now see the reason that I probably got the advice that I did.

My undergraduate GPA was horrible.

After reading all this I realize that it is more important for *me* personally to get my pre-reqs done at a 4 year college to show that I can handle it. I am in a position where I have to do everything possible to make up for prior mistakes.

I just felt like I should add that after reading these responses. I wish that I felt confident that CC classes would get me in. But I'm going to do everything I can to make myself look good. I'd hate to get rejected and wonder if that's why.

 

[gracietiger]

jjohnston-
I am sorry if it seemed that I was implying that CC courses are easy and need to be "overlooked." I believe, and I know I'm not alone, that physics and Orgo are just hard, and it doesn't matter where they are taught or by whom, but at a college level, they are just hard. So I don't look down on CC courses.

I was asking if your applications were overly impressive because it is just the reality that there is a stigma attached to completing courses at a CC. And I'm sure some vet schools and their admissions committees can be just as guilty of judgement. So I asked because I was wondering if you felt like ad coms treated your pre reqs from the CC fairly equally to courses from a 4-year, or if you happened to have a ton of impressive experiences that evened the playing field. I myself am considering taking a few courses at the CC to save money, but I do not expect that I will be applying with a ton of experience or other incredibly unique experiences. So I was not judging the level at which you completed your prereqs.

 

[Ausheya]

I just think it needs to be mentioned that Pierce College has an agreement with UC Davis that the pre-vet major at Pierce (plus genetics at another school) fulfills all the pre-reqs for getting into the vet school. Not all community colleges have that type of arrangement. It probably also means that Davis, at least, knows pretty much exactly what kind of work goes into getting the degree, whereas at other community colleges the vet school might not know the caliber of the courses. I can't speak to community colleges outside of California, but in general the CCs here are fairly highly regarded, from what I can tell.

 

[sumstorm]

I just think it needs to be mentioned that Pierce College has an agreement with UC Davis that the pre-vet major at Pierce (plus genetics at another school) fulfills all the pre-reqs for getting into the vet school. Not all community colleges have that type of arrangement. It probably also means that Davis, at least, knows pretty much exactly what kind of work goes into getting the degree, whereas at other community colleges the vet school might not know the caliber of the courses. I can't speak to community colleges outside of California, but in general the CCs here are fairly highly regarded, from what I can tell.

Yes, I think that is very important...to know how good the target schools consider the CC. I think thre are huge variations in quality between schools in general, whether they are 4 yr, CC, distance, online, etc. I have actually audited a few courses at the local CC to 'refresh' my science knowledge. I can say that the local CC's chemistry classes are next to worthless. They are easier than the chem for non-majors at my undergrad. However, the biology courses are amazing, especially if your interested in enviro sci. I think that it would have penalized me in the application process at the in state school if I had completed the courses at that CC. So, knowing the quality of the CC along with the vet school's view of that CC might be important.

 

[Caninerepro]

I am not going to dive into the CC vs. 4 year debate, because I have never done cc classes. That said, I do know of two other ways people with non-science degrees went about getting their pre-reqs in. A). as mentioned, sign up for a second major/post bacc classes at a university, and cherry pick the ones you need for vet school w/o worrying about getting another degree actually. B). do a 1 year MS program (like I just did), with or w/o a thesis, and then go back and use your electives to take biochem, et. The program I just did had two English BAs, and a psych BS in it. Yes, they were a bit behind those of us coming in with gnarly biochem or physiology degrees already, but we all as grad students pitched in, did study groups, and enjoyed the heck out the diversity between us. It was great, and we all (hopefully -- we just took our comp finals last week) came out of our two semesters with a kick butt MS in A&P. We also were eligible for financial aid if needed. So it can be done, even as an econ major in undergrad. Just my 1 1/2 cents -- I am really not worth the full 2 pennies. 😛

 

[sungieality]

Thanks again everyone for the input. I was wondering, if you are from LA, which community college did you attend to finish the pre-reqs. I told him about Pierce College, but it's actually quite a distance from where he lives so he'd have to live near Woodland Hills for 2 years just to finish the prereqs. He's looking at Mount San Antonio College (Mt. SAC) since it's WAY closer to his house to finish the prereqs, but weighing the options, since Pierce College does have that agreement with Davis. Any suggestions/input?

 

[Pomona2006]

I took my CC courses at Pasadena City College

www.pasadena.edu