dinosaurcrumpet

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This is recent too. It's from this year. Do things really get this bad in surgery programs? :eek:

"The interns begin rounds at 5:30, then as a team at 6AM. It used to be that there was no pre-rounding, but we are being punished for making minor paperwork mistakes. Then the interns do a bunch of scut all day while the seniors are in the OR. Then they come out and bitch about what didn't happen. There are a few horrible offenders, one who physically assaulted an intern (who subsequently left). The interns will have two real SOBs for chiefs next year, god bless their misdirected souls. We work between 70 and 90 hours per week. We are, however, not ACGME compliant because we often go for weeks without a day off. My record this year: 21 days. But hey, I'm sure all programs are like this...right? Right guys?"
 

Amy

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I would bet that this is a joke, or a big exaggeration from a disgruntled intern. I don't suppose you'd post what program he's talking about...?
 

dinosaurcrumpet

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Amy said:
I would bet that this is a joke, or a big exaggeration from a disgruntled intern. I don't suppose you'd post what program he's talking about...?
It's Lenox Hill. I agree that the guy sounds disgruntled. But isn't intern disgruntlement a symptom of malignancy?
 
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robotsonic

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Whoa. I just read the whole review. That is pretty disturbing; even if he is exaggerating somewhat, you can tell he is pretty unhappy. What he says backs up what others have said (that the didactics are horrible, that the only good conference is vascular, etc).

I'm interviewing at this place soon. Someone tell me it isn't actually like that.
 

toofache32

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dinosaurcrumpet said:
It's Lenox Hill. I agree that the guy sounds disgruntled. But isn't intern disgruntlement a symptom of malignancy?
It's just a symptom of a whiney intern. The treatment is an application to McDonald's.
 

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robotsonic said:
Whoa. I just read the whole review. That is pretty disturbing; even if he is exaggerating somewhat, you can tell he is pretty unhappy. What he says backs up what others have said (that the didactics are horrible, that the only good conference is vascular, etc).

I'm interviewing at this place soon. Someone tell me it isn't actually like that.
I wonder about the turnover at Lenox Hill; that's a pretty good indicator of malignancy, or at least the general well-being of the program.
 

toofache32

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dinosaurcrumpet said:
:eek: That's harsh. :laugh:
I'm serious. You work damn hard to get that job and you know what you're getting into. My residency sucks sometimes, but I knew it would so I don't whine about it. Residency is finite.
 

dinosaurcrumpet

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toofache32 said:
I'm serious. You work damn hard to get that job and you know what you're getting into. My residency sucks sometimes, but I knew it would so I don't whine about it. Residency is finite.
Well, I'd agree with that for the most part. And obviously if hard work doesn't appeal then surgery is probably the wrong choice. What struck me as being a slight bit OTT about this review is the report of an intern leaving after being physically assaulted by an upper level. Who know's if that's true. But if it is it would point to this program sucking maybe just a little bit more than most.
 
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Uh...what part of that quote is shocking?

Surgical residency can be tough - many days without a day off, 90-110+ hr/wk, prerounding starting around 3...don't be shocked if it happens!
 

toofache32

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dinosaurcrumpet said:
Well, I'd agree with that for the most part. And obviously if hard work doesn't appeal then surgery is probably the wrong choice. What struck me as being a slight bit OTT about this review is the report of an intern leaving after being physically assaulted by an upper level. Who know's if that's true. But if it is it would point to this program sucking maybe just a little bit more than most.
I didn't catch the part about physical assualt. I can't imagine that would really happen, and I don't know why someone would let it happen to them. I just might have to cap a mofo for laying a hand on me.
 

dinosaurcrumpet

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toofache32 said:
I didn't catch the part about physical assualt. I can't imagine that would really happen, and I don't know why someone would let it happen to them. I just might have to cap a mofo for laying a hand on me.

:laugh: Yeah, I can't imagine letting anyone away with that myself. That would definately be my que to mutany/reciprocated beatings.
 

dinosaurcrumpet

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Blade28 said:
Uh...what part of that quote is shocking?

Surgical residency can be tough - many days without a day off, 90-110+ hr/wk, prerounding starting around 3...don't be shocked if it happens!
None of that shocks me. I fully expect these things from residency and have no problem with them. It was the physical smackdowns described in the review that seemed to be a novel addition. ;)
 
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Bovie9

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I don't know... A friend of mine is a resident at Lenox Hill. I think he is pretty happy- he operates a lot, and has really never complained about the program. Sounds like BS to me
 

dinosaurcrumpet

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Bovie9 said:
I don't know... A friend of mine is a resident at Lenox Hill. I think he is pretty happy- he operates a lot, and has really never complained about the program. Sounds like BS to me
That's good to hear. Thanks, Bovie. :thumbup:
 

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Blade28 said:
Uh...what part of that quote is shocking?

Surgical residency can be tough - many days without a day off, 90-110+ hr/wk, prerounding starting around 3...don't be shocked if it happens!

Are you really working these hours?? :eek: I think someone needs to re-read the RRC work-hour rules... and have a serious talk w/ his PD.
 

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toofache32 said:
I didn't catch the part about physical assault. I can't imagine that would really happen, and I don't know why someone would let it happen to them. I just might have to cap a mofo for laying a hand on me.
Can't imagine it would really happen? Happened at my hospital (different case), by an ATTENDING who assaulted the intern. Intern is now PGY-2, my colleague who witnessed it is PGY-3, and the attending is gone, gone, gone.

In the same surgery program, one of our seniors from last year, when he was PGY-2, was assaulted by a GS chief, who grabbed him and pulled him out of the room, and literally shouted obscenities in the hallway (and when I say "shout", I mean it - not the "shout" or "scream" that whiny people say when someone raises their voice - as I tell people, if I'm shouting or screaming at you, you'll know it - just because you hear a rise in the timbre of my voice does NOT mean I'm 'screaming'). He was dropping the "f-bomb" like a B-52. The irony is that this chief is/was short and tiny, and my colleague is bigger than him, and an accomplished martial artist. This chief had been in trouble before, and my colleague wrote it up, and the chief tried to "explain", when there was no way to explain it away - even so, this episode went away, and the chief was able to finish.

So, it certainly does happen.
 

toofache32

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Apollyon said:
Can't imagine it would really happen? Happened at my hospital (different case), by an ATTENDING who assaulted the intern. Intern is now PGY-2, my colleague who witnessed it is PGY-3, and the attending is gone, gone, gone.

In the same surgery program, one of our seniors from last year, when he was PGY-2, was assaulted by a GS chief, who grabbed him and pulled him out of the room, and literally shouted obscenities in the hallway (and when I say "shout", I mean it - not the "shout" or "scream" that whiny people say when someone raises their voice - as I tell people, if I'm shouting or screaming at you, you'll know it - just because you hear a rise in the timbre of my voice does NOT mean I'm 'screaming'). He was dropping the "f-bomb" like a B-52. The irony is that this chief is/was short and tiny, and my colleague is bigger than him, and an accomplished martial artist. This chief had been in trouble before, and my colleague wrote it up, and the chief tried to "explain", when there was no way to explain it away - even so, this episode went away, and the chief was able to finish.

So, it certainly does happen.
I believe that chief would have a long walk through the parking garage if that happened to me, Why involve the administrators?
 

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toofache32 said:
I believe that chief would have a long walk through the parking garage if that happened to me, Why involve the administrators?
Because residency isn't supposed to be governed by the law of the jungle. It's all very well waiting out in the parking lot for the chief if you happen to be physically superior or experienced in hand to hand combat. But what if you're introverted and slight of build? What if you happen to be female? Should you just take the beating as your natural lot in life. Personally, like you, I'd like to wait for the guy outside the hospital and beat the crap out of him. But that may not work for everyone. And what's more, if you did that, he can always go to the administration and complain about you. He could even sue. I wouldn't want to be the one standing in the defendent's dock lamely telling the judge, "So yeah, I did rough the guy up, but your honor, I swear to it, he yelled in my face".

Then again if the offending chief is big and strong and you're smaller or female, you could always hire a hitman. Maybe that'd work.
 
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Blade28

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Are you really working these hours?? :eek: I think someone needs to re-read the RRC work-hour rules... and have a serious talk w/ his PD.
I know, I know. Thanks for the concern, though. :) How's intern year going for you?
 

toofache32

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SergeGainsbourg said:
Then again if the offending chief is big and strong and you're smaller or female, you could always hire a hitman. Maybe that'd work.
Those are sexist comments and they're not appreciated here. Females are capable of anything males are capable of doing....and better.

Those are good points about people who aren't as confrontational as I can be. The people who work with me know I am a hard worker, a team player, and that I will go out of my way to help even a stranger. But they also know (for various reasons) that my table is the last table you want to lay your d!ck on. But that's just me.

Just kidding about the sexist comments. I'm actually a chauvinist-pig myself so I can't talk.
 

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Females are capable of anything males are capable of doing....and better.
good joke. LOL
 

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SergeGainsbourg said:
Then again if the offending chief is big and strong and you're smaller or female, you could always hire a hitman. Maybe that'd work.
Ahhh...we females prefer the age old tradition of character assassination over physical violence. Something like anonymously calling up your wife and telling her that your girlfriend is pregnant and we "just thought you should know." Never mind you don't have a girlfriend and are nothing but faithful to your spouse.

We have our ways of getting even.... :smuggrin:
 
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