Gay in Medicine

[BerlinDude]

Sweet bajeezus, the ignorance floating around this thread is ridiculous.

-"Faking" being gay for URM status is a ridiculous claim. People could certainly "fake" being a URM just as easily. This is the same logic that prevents gays from having same-sex health benefits. It's illogical. I'd be happy to explain why on a different thread.

That is probably the most ridiculous claim I have ever read. I'd think you were being sarcastic, except you don't seem to be. How can you fake being a URM? Are you going to tan too long and get black parents? And if you think concerns about faking are why gays often don't have same-sex health benefits ... let's just say you are wrong. Faking being in a relationship is easy whether you are straight or gay.

The rest of your post makes no sense either. Whatever.

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[lunchbox_tragedy]

He's saying faking being gay would be as difficult as faking being an URM -- that is to say, ridiculously and preposterously difficult. Presumably, faking gay would involve more than blurting out "I'm gay" to your interviewer; you'd have to hit all the essential stereotypes.

Try faking that you're gay for a week -- tell your parents you like men, come out to your friends, stop flirting with women and start hitting on men, and listen to music and watch movies that a gay person can relate to instead of popular heteronormative stuff. Since you want to really be convincing, go shopping for tight, colorful, flamboyantly "gay" clothes and get your ears pierced. Start talking with a lisp and a limp wrist, also. Go to the gay social groups on your campus and introduce yourself as someone newly out of the closet, then find a boyfriend.

Once you're successfully faking some flagrant homosexuality, see how people treat you and whether or not anyone takes you seriously anymore. See whether you're harassed in public while walking around campus. See how your parents and friends react to your new personal discovery. Then decide whether or not you'd be willing to fake that for 4 years to go to a certain med school. I think you'll understand why it's usually gay people trying to appear straight, not the other way around.

 

[ThirdEye]

ThirdEye, a few pointers:
1) You're viewpoint of "openly gay" and "openly straight" makes you sound like someone from Alabama in the 80's. It's almost 2010. You out yourself as a straight man everyday and don't even realize it. Others have eloquently explained how.
2) Get used to gay people. In medicine and medical education these days, homophobia is simply not tolerated. There's a reason why med schools want altruistic, diverse, caring people, and you're not displaying any of these traits in your limited comments. Make some changes by interview time or you may be staring at a pile of rejections come springtime.
3) Get used to people who aren't like you. You're going to be encountering patients who are Christians, Jews, Muslims Buddhists and atheists, Whites and Blacks and Latinos and Asians, drug users, straight edgers, abstainers and drunks, rich and poor and homeless. If you can't handle a gay man in your class mentioning his boyfriend, how are you going to handle patient telling you about their drug habit? If you approach with judgement they won't tell you, and you'll miss the diagnosis - making you look like an idiot, or having the patient suffer.

I don't appreciate your personal attack.

I thougt I cleared up what I meant.
I'm not homophobic and I'm not oblivious. The OP was asking if he should even bother pursuing medicine because of other people's intolorance and my advice was meant as a way the OP can avoid conflict from people who aren't understanding. My statement was really meant to pertain to during class. I know I said, "There's nothing wrong with being gay in medicine as long as sexuality isn't apparent". That's not what I truly meant. I really don't care if sexuality is apparent but it definitely should be TOO apparent (ie: he shouldn't walk around the hospital like Bruno). The bottom line of what I meant is that it shouldn't be apparent during class (if he wants to avoid conflict). Not before class... not after class... DURING... while people should be sitting there listening. The only way it could be apparent during class is from mannerisms and attire, not from talking because there is NO talking. Nobody should be talking about anything gay or straight.

I personally don't care if he comes into class looking like Richard Simons but people are going to talk about it and that's not what he wants so I advise against it...... and you bet your A.S.S. it's unprofessional.

Get used to people who aren't like me? Any you know me how?

 

[ThirdEye]

I'm sorry, I still don't agree. We put our sexual orientation "on display" whether we mean to or not. It's the way you look, act, talk, etc. If someone asked people in your class whether they think you are gay or straight, most people would have an answer to that. They'd say you're either gay or straight. In your ideal world, the answer would be "I truly don't know." Does that ever happen? So you must be doing something to make people think you are one way or the other, and therefore putting you sexual orientation on display, as you say.

I'm not talking about minor things that could be used to infer somone is gay. In that case, yes you could make a guess as to what their orientation in, but there's no certainty. There will always be assumption... even in private schools that use uniforms.

Again, I really don't care if the OP comes into class wearing a shirt that says, "I'm gay"... but it is unappropriate in my eyes because it is irrelevant.

 

[BerlinDude]

He's saying faking being gay would be as difficult as faking being an URM -- that is to say, ridiculously and preposterously difficult. Presumably, faking gay would involve more than blurting out "I'm gay" to your interviewer; you'd have to hit all the essential stereotypes.

Try faking that you're gay for a week -- tell your parents you like men, come out to your friends, stop flirting with women and start hitting on men, and listen to music and watch movies that a gay person can relate to instead of popular heteronormative stuff. Since you want to really be convincing, go shopping for tight, colorful, flamboyantly "gay" clothes and get your ears pierced. Start talking with a lisp and a limp wrist, also. Go to the gay social groups on your campus and introduce yourself as someone newly out of the closet, then find a boyfriend.

Once you're successfully faking some flagrant homosexuality, see how people treat you and whether or not anyone takes you seriously anymore. See whether you're harassed in public while walking around campus. See how your parents and friends react to your new personal discovery. Then decide whether or not you'd be willing to fake that for 4 years to go to a certain med school. I think you'll understand why it's usually gay people trying to appear straight, not the other way around.

Dude, how can you start out with a bunch of gay stereotypes before protesting gay harassment?

 

[SnarkyMD]

That is probably the most ridiculous claim I have ever read. I'd think you were being sarcastic, except you don't seem to be. How can you fake being a URM? Are you going to tan too long and get black parents? And if you think concerns about faking are why gays often don't have same-sex health benefits ... let's just say you are wrong. Faking being in a relationship is easy whether you are straight or gay.

The rest of your post makes no sense either. Whatever.

So is my post the most ridiculous thing ever, or makes no sense whatsoever? Which is it?

The claim the people are going to "fake" being gay is constantly made as a reason not to have same-sex partner benefits. Listen to Newt Gingrich or Rush comment on the topic. I've heard it from the lips of peers and fellow church-goers. The claim is that two male or two female roommates will suddenly claim partnership status and cheat the insurance company. The claim is ridiculous because there is nothing stopping male and female roommates from undergoing a scham marriage - yet it isn't a problem. I understand your naivete to the matter as I'd guess you haven't been vested in the issue.

As for faking URM status, it's along the lines of stretching the truth on a resume or application - which happens. Who would challenge an applicant if they claimed to be half latino? We rely on the integrity of applicants and the system. My apologies for going off, but the claim of people faking minority (racial or sexual) for gain is a touchy subject. It grossly minimizes the difficulties that these statuses endure in society. Also, you ARE aware that there are URMs who aren't African American, or dark skinned, aren't you?

ThirdEye, I don't know you. But the point I intended to make is that there will be people unlike you in your class and your patient population. One doesn't have to know someone to claim that they will encounter diversity in medicine and medical education.
Also, I'm trying to press you on the issue of overt versus covert sexuality, and I and others are arguing that it is much more difficult to remain in the closet than you might think. As you haven't been in a medical school setting, you clearly don't know how things work on a day to day basis. People don't just shuffle in and out of their seats from lecture to lecture - the gossip train is worse than high school. If someone asks the OP what he did over the weekend, are you suggesting he lie instead of saying he went on a date with a man? And again, I'm also suggesting you stop trying to comment on this whole thread. You aren't gay (or at least not openly so), and you aren't in med school, so why do you feel like you can intelligently comment on being gay in med school?

 

[BerlinDude]

So is my post the most ridiculous thing ever, or makes no sense whatsoever? Which is it?

The claim the people are going to "fake" being gay is constantly made as a reason not to have same-sex partner benefits. Listen to Newt Gingrich or Rush comment on the topic. I've heard it from the lips of peers and fellow church-goers. The claim is that two male or two female roommates will suddenly claim partnership status and cheat the insurance company. The claim is ridiculous because there is nothing stopping male and female roommates from undergoing a scham marriage - yet it isn't a problem. I understand your naivete to the matter as I'd guess you haven't been vested in the issue.

The first two possibilities are pretty much equivalent, why the confusion?

I'll admit I don't care or know much about what Rush Limbaugh has to say about things, but the main argument against same-sex partner benefits is that these benefits are usually reserved for married couples, which most gay couples are not. I haven't heard a convincing argument as to why unmarried gays should be given special treatment over unmarried heterosexuals.

There is no way to fake being a minority. All your documentation has your race, you can't just suddenly change things. Your example of someone randomly claiming to be Latino doesn't hold up.

Since you brought him up, I'll end with a Rush Limbaugh joke. Rush walks into a bar with a duck under his arm, and the bartender says "Don't bring that disgusting pig in here!". Rush says "It's not a pig, it's a duck". The bartender says "I was talking to the duck".

 

[277768]

The first two possibilities are pretty much equivalent, why the confusion?

I'll admit I don't care or know much about what Rush Limbaugh has to say about things, but the main argument against same-sex partner benefits is that these benefits are usually reserved for married couples, which most gay couples are not. I haven't heard a convincing argument as to why unmarried gays should be given special treatment over unmarried heterosexuals.

There is no way to fake being a minority. All your documentation has your race, you can't just suddenly change things. Your example of someone randomly claiming to be Latino doesn't hold up.

Since you brought him up, I'll end with a Rush Limbaugh joke. Rush walks into a bar with a duck under his arm, and the bartender says "Don't bring that disgusting pig in here!". Rush says "It's not a pig, it's a duck". The bartender says "I was talking to the duck".

Please can we leave Drugbaugh out this. For a website of prospective doctors, taking any kind of advice from someone who never went to college is morally suspect, to begin with.

A website of prospective doctors and you talk about the opinions of a lonely, morbidly obese, drug addict? That's not good!


The only discussion of rush should entail which doctor sees his future being Rush's provider of oxycontin and other pain meds...otherwise, he's irrelevant.