general info about graduate psych programs please

[Mistress S]

Hello all,

I usually post in the pre-allo forum as I am currently applying to med school, but my bf is a junior psych major and I'm hoping to get some info for him. He is interested in pursuing psych studies beyond undergrad, most likely to the doctorate level. He was originally interested in clinical work with children but has expressed an interest in research as his studies have progressed. I have tried to give him advice but I don't think my experiences as a med school applicant/pre-med student always translate over so well for those interested in graduate psych programs.

I would like to hear general info about these programs if possible--how competitive are they? What kind of GPA/GRE scores (if the GRE is the test you take) are needed to gain entry into a Ph.D. psych program? What other factors are looked at in the application process? Does it matter if you want to do research or clinical work as far as which programs you apply to? What kind of careers are available to those with such degrees, and how competitive is the job market? Sorry this is so broad, as this isn't my field of expertise I'm not exactly sure what questions to ask. He recently transferred to a university from a jc and hasn't really met with advisors yet, which I am encouraging him to do. I'm just trying to get some general info and a feel for the process. Thanks so much!

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[edieb]

Ph.D. clinical programs are the most competitive programs to obtain admission to -- even much more competitive that med shool. The mean acceptance rate into a program is about .05. Buy the APA's Guide to Getting Into Graduate School; it has program by program acceptance stats, GREs, GPAs, required courses, etc. It's available on Amazon.Com. ALmost everybody who applies to grad school buys that book!

Hello all,

I usually post in the pre-allo forum as I am currently applying to med school, but my bf is a junior psych major and I'm hoping to get some info for him. He is interested in pursuing psych studies beyond undergrad, most likely to the doctorate level. He was originally interested in clinical work with children but has expressed an interest in research as his studies have progressed. I have tried to give him advice but I don't think my experiences as a med school applicant/pre-med student always translate over so well for those interested in graduate psych programs.

I would like to hear general info about these programs if possible--how competitive are they? What kind of GPA/GRE scores (if the GRE is the test you take) are needed to gain entry into a Ph.D. psych program? What other factors are looked at in the application process? Does it matter if you want to do research or clinical work as far as which programs you apply to? What kind of careers are available to those with such degrees, and how competitive is the job market? Sorry this is so broad, as this isn't my field of expertise I'm not exactly sure what questions to ask. He recently transferred to a university from a jc and hasn't really met with advisors yet, which I am encouraging him to do. I'm just trying to get some general info and a feel for the process. Thanks so much!

 

[PsychStudent]

Hi there! I'm a first-year clinical psychology PhD student so I've recently navigated the application process. There are basically two types of doctoral programs your boyfriend apply for: a clinical psych PhD and a clinical psych PsyD. The first type of degree prepares student for a career in either academia or clinical practice, whereas a PsyD is mostly for people who want to be clinicians. Acceptance rates for PhD programs range from 2% to 10%, while acceptance rates for PsyD program range from like 20% to 50% I believe. Some of the programs that accept 50% or more students are a little suspect and not too well-regarded by people in the field, but if a person graduates from one of these and does an APA-accredited internship he/she would still be able to practice as a clinical psychologist. The other big difference between a PsyD and a PhD program is the cost. PhD programs are generally free (as long as you do a nominal amount of TAing) and provide a yearly stipend around 20K, whereas PsyD programs can cost as much as 30K a year and rarely provide financial aid.

Suprisingly, GPA and GRE are not the most important factors in gaining admission to grad school. As long as your boyfriend has at least a 3.7 and 1350 on his GREs, that is probably good enough. Of course many applicants are have straight As and above 1500 on their GREs, but the most important thing by far is RESEARCH! Many people take time off between college and grad school so they do more research and publish, but some people (like me) go straight if they have done enough research in college. That means working in a psych lab almost every year and every summer while in college and being able to get excellent recs for the prof who oversee you. For PhD programs, volunteering in clinical settings isn't very important because the schools are looking for people who will think of good ideas and publish in grad school, not necessarily who is the most empathic or altruistic. Doing volunteering work won't hurt you, but it's just much less important than other things. One other thing I should mention is that PhD applicants generally apply to work with a certain *person* within a university who is doing research in X field of interest, and it is important to write about why you want to work with that person in your application essay.

Keep in mind that everything I mentioned in the last paragraph is geared towards PhD students. Since the acceptance rates for PsyD programs is much higher, you can generally have lower grades and less research experience to gain admission to one of these program. Clinical experience and volunteering in mental health treatment settings also helps in admission to PsyD programs somewhat.

Please let me know if you have any more questions. The best book by far to consult is The Insider's Guide to Clinical and Counseling Psychology Programs: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/103-8420371-6768659?v=glance&s=books.

 

[PsychStudent]

By the way, I didn't answer your question about the career of psychology because I'm honestly not sure what's going to be available to me after I finish my PhD except that I'll technically be qualified to be either a therapist, a professor, or some kind of psychology consultant/administrator. I've heard that tenure-track professor positions are incredibly hard to get though, and I'm been feeling sort of bummed out lately about the limited scope of clinical practice available to psychologists. I'm actually thinking about eventually going to med school to be a psychiatrist, hahah. My program is awesome though and I love learning what I'm learning, so it's a bit of a dilemna.

 

[Mistress S]

Thank you edieb and especially Psychstudent--your info was very helpful. It sounds like PhD programs are very difficult to get into--3.7 GPA! Even for med school, 3.5 or above is considered competitive (although you do have to take a lot of hard science pre-reqs--physics, organic chem, etc). He has good grades so far, 3.6 or 3.7 GPA, but part of my reason for posting this is concern that he doesn't realize what he's up against. He has no research or volunteer experience yet, and it sounds like it might be too late to get a sufficient amount of research experience for PhD programs without taking a year or more off (which I think he would be reluctant to do, since he got kind of a late start on college). A PsyD program might be a better bet for him, but I'm wondering what is the benefit of doing this over a master's? Is the pay substantially different? Otherwise, it doesn't seem necessarily worth it given the loan debt he would accumulate to get a PsyD, if both allow you to be a therapist. Thanks again, and if anyone has anything to add that would be great!

 

[psychapp]

Some more clarification between getting a master's degree and a PsyD:

A master's degree in clinical or counseling psychology will allow you to become a therapist, while earning a PsyD will actually allow you to get licensed as a clinical psychologist (NOT a therapist), which will give you much more room to grow in your career. A licensed psychologist (with regard to practicing) has the ability to do much more with testing and diagnosing mental disorders.

If your boyfriend is sure he wants to do research and maybe some practice, he should go for a scientist-practitioner program. These programs typically incorporate a mix of research and practice education. However, he should definitely read into these programs; while some describe themselves as "scientist-practitioner", they really are truly research-oriented. There are definitely some PhD programs that concentrate more on practice training and are less competitive, especially for those who aren't as research-minded.

One more point: don't be too dissuaded from the large bills incurred from PsyD programs. I know several students who have earned their PsyD's, started private or joint practices, and paid off their student loans within a couple of years with their high annual salaries (unfortunately, research and academia careers are NOT so lucrative........).

 

[PsychStudent]

I'm glad that you found my info helpful! I know very little about master's or PsyD programs so hopefully others on here who know more can fill in the gaps in my post. I didn't look into PsyD programs because I didn't want to accumulate so much debt, but obviously there are some good reasons to go down that road too, as psychapp mentioned. For example, my program (like many PhD programs) is very research focused and not everyone enjoys that aspect of psychology.

 

[Sanman]

you said that your bf wanted to work with children, what type of work is he interested in? He may want to consider school psychology programs, both the masters and doctoral programs are easier to get into than clinical. If you look into masters options, check out the MSW, since it is generall more highly regarded than the masters degrees in psych.