General Postbac questions - Newbie

[Don15]

Hi all,

I am not familiar with postbac programs and had a couple of questions. I am currently applying to medical schools for entering year 2012 and am interested in also applying to postbac programs for entering year 2012 in case I don't get into medical school. Besides Temple, are there any other postbac programs that guarantee matriculation into the medical school after completing the program with a certain GPA?
Also, for the postbac programs that guarantee an interview, can I apply to their medical school during the program or do I have to wait until the program is over then apply, therefore pushing me back another year? So I guess my question is for these schools is it possible to matriculate into their medical school right after the program is over or is going through a whole application cycle after the program necessary?
Thanks!

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[aSagacious]

Besides Temple, are there any other postbac programs that guarantee matriculation into the medical school after completing the program with a certain GPA?

Not that I know of. To my knowledge Temple is the only school that offers the (relatively) unconditional acceptance with a 3.5/30 in the program.

Also, for the postbac programs that guarantee an interview, can I apply to their medical school during the program or do I have to wait until the program is over then apply, therefore pushing me back another year?

Yes, many applicants (myself included) go this route if they are relatively competitive prior to beginning the program (which you certainly are). What I'm finding, though, is that many schools will put you on hold for your fall grades, which is a disadvantage (albeit a slight one) based on the nature of a rolling admissions process.

 

[Don15]

Yes, many applicants (myself included) go this route if they are relatively competitive prior to beginning the program (which you certainly are). What I'm finding, though, is that many schools will put you on hold for your fall grades, which is a disadvantage (albeit a slight one) based on the nature of a rolling admissions process.

For these schools that guarantee an interview to their med school, I know it's not a "guaranteed acceptance", but for the most part do these students get in as long as they have a high enough GPA and the fact that they took a postbac program at the med school? I guess what I'm asking is it more or less somewhat of a formality to actually apply. I'm only asking about the postbac program associated with that particular med school, not applying to other med schools

 

[aSagacious]

For these schools that guarantee an interview to their med school, I know it's not a "guaranteed acceptance", but for the most part do these students get in as long as they have a high enough GPA and the fact that they took a postbac program at the med school? I guess what I'm asking is it more or less somewhat of a formality to actually apply. I'm only asking about the postbac program associated with that particular med school, not applying to other med schools

I think you are confounding two different occurrences: guaranteed interviews and applying while in program.

First, the guaranteed interviews are as follows. If you maintain a certain GPA/MCAT while in the program then you will be automatically given an interview for the next cycle (meaning you will have to find a gap year activity). I have not seen any statistics out for how many interviewees are eventually given acceptances to the parent institution (only how many are eventually accepted somewhere).

If you apply while in the program you will essentially be applying based on your own merit, not based on your post-bac accomplishments, so you will not necessarily be granted an interview. If you are fortunate enough to be granted an interview I doubt that they'd treat you any differently than any other applicant.

So, I encourage you to apply while enrolled in the program but don't expect an interview simply because you are in their post-bac program.

 

[DrMidlife]

First, the guaranteed interviews are as follows. If you maintain a certain GPA/MCAT while in the program then you will be automatically given an interview for the next cycle (meaning you will have to find a gap year activity).

Huh? I don't think that's correct. My reading of the Temple admissions page is that you go straight into the M1 class, no gap year. "Immediate admission", for instance.

http://www.temple.edu/medicine/education/post_bac_programs_career_enhancer.htm

 

[aSagacious]

Huh? I don't think that's correct. My reading of the Temple admissions page is that you go straight into the M1 class, no gap year. "Immediate admission", for instance.

http://www.temple.edu/medicine/education/post_bac_programs_career_enhancer.htm

Correct, I was talking about the schools that offer guaranteed interviews (aka, not Temple).

 

[DrMidlife]

Correct, I was talking about the schools that offer guaranteed interviews (aka, not Temple).

Want to name some? This is news to me.

 

[aSagacious]

Want to name some? This is news to me.

VCU CERT, Loyola MAMS, Toledo MSBS, Georgetown SMP (not guaranteed, but pretty liberal), NYMC (same as Georgetown), RFU, etc.

...oh, OP sorry forgot to mention that Drexel MSP is another school with a guaranteed acceptance program (though you'd still have a gap year).

 

[DrMidlife]

VCU CERT, Loyola MAMS, Toledo MSBS, Georgetown SMP (not guaranteed, but pretty liberal), NYMC (same as Georgetown), RFU, etc.

...oh, OP sorry forgot to mention that Drexel MSP is another school with a guaranteed acceptance program (though you'd still have a gap year).

OK, back up a minute. I think you are overstating the correlation between a guaranteed interview and a gap year. A gap year after an SMP isn't the norm, it's a choice.

The norm in programs like Gtown, EVMS, Cincinnati, RFU, Loyola MAMS, Toledo MSBS & VCU Cert is to concurrently apply to med schools while you're in the SMP. If you don't concurrently apply, then you are choosing to have a gap year after the SMP. If you don't concurrently apply, then the host med school literally can't interview you for the incoming class.

That choice, to not concurrently apply, is a good choice if you know for sure that you need the assets gained in an SMP to get into a target school, such as a U of California med school. (Note that people do get into UCs directly after an SMP - it happens.)

If you choose to start a GPA enhancement program, such as an SMP, with a poor MCAT score, no MCAT score, or a sub-3.0 GPA, and the school that hosts your program isn't a med school or doesn't immediately accept a majority of its SMP students, then you are choosing a gap year.

By contrast, students who do not successfully get into med school on the first try, but maybe get some interviews, and have a decent MCAT, and who start an SMP to improve their reapp chances, have very good odds of avoiding a gap year and should apply concurrently.

At EVMS they wouldn't even know what to do with you if you aren't concurrently applying. The guaranteed interview, which happens in February through April during the SMP year, is for the incoming M1 class.

Best of luck to you.

 

[aSagacious]

^ I'm not here to argue with you, because all of your points are valid. I'm merely stating the requirements of a guaranteed interview, NOT how to obtain an interview while in the program (where very few, if any will offer an automatic interview with no grades in hand). All of the schools that I listed clearly state that you will be granted an interview in the following cycle if you perform well during your first year. Whether or not you choose to apply during your program is up to you, but again this does not allow you the guaranteed interview as advertised by the programs.

 

[DeucesHigh3]

VCU CERT, Loyola MAMS, Toledo MSBS, Georgetown SMP (not guaranteed, but pretty liberal), NYMC (same as Georgetown), RFU, etc.

...oh, OP sorry forgot to mention that Drexel MSP is another school with a guaranteed acceptance program (though you'd still have a gap year).

I don't believe Drexel MSP has a guaranteed interview, let alone guaranteed acceptance -- DPMS, to my knowledge, is the only Drexel program where the med school seat is yours to lose.

On the other hand, the guaranteed interview for the Drexel IMS program (the SMP) is early in the spring semester, for matriculation that fall with no gap year.

 

[Don15]

man all this is so confusing lol.

DrMidlife, it was my understanding that schools like EVMS guarantee an interview for the next application cycle, therefore requiring a gap year. I guess this is because they want to see you mastered the SMP the whole year. It is still your choice if you want to apply while in the program, but doing that does not guarantee an interview in that same cycle. Is this correct?

 

[DrMidlife]

DrMidlife, it was my understanding that schools like EVMS guarantee an interview for the next application cycle, therefore requiring a gap year.

Not correct.

I guess this is because they want to see you mastered the SMP the whole year.

Not correct. EVMS has a full semester of getting to know med masters before their guaranteed interview during 2nd semester. Med masters start receiving their EVMS med school acceptances during 2nd semester finals. Finals in May, med school in August, 3 months.

It is still your choice if you want to apply while in the program, but doing that does not guarantee an interview in that same cycle. Is this correct?

Nope, not correct. All this stuff about guarantees and gaps and next cycles has really gotten out of hand in this thread. As I said, EVMS would not even know what to do with you if you're not expecting to go immediately from the med masters program directly into med school 3 months after completing the med masters program.

Here's an example of the EVMS med masters timeline.

Oct 2011 - Feb 2012: apply to SMP
June 2012: submit AMCAS for MD apps
June-July 2012: do secondaries for MD apps
Aug 2012: start EVMS SMP
Aug 2012 - Mar 2013: interview at other med schools for Aug 2013 matriculation
Feb 2013 - Mar 2013: EVMS interview for Aug 2013 matriculation
Aug 2013: med school starts, assuming you get accepted

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Let me add some supporting detail to that timeline.

Oct 2011 - Feb 2012: apply to SMP
June 2012: submit AMCAS for MD schools including EVMS
June-Aug 2012: do secondaries for MD apps
Aug 2012: start EVMS SMP
Aug 2012: EVMS SMP gives you a letter for your MD app schools explaining the program & telling them what to expect
Aug 2012 - Mar 2013: interview at other med schools for Aug 2013 matriculation
Jan 2013: EVMS transcript for 1st semester grades available for sending to your MD app schools
Jan 2013: EVMS SMP gives you a letter for your MD app schools explaining your performance so far
Feb 2013 - Mar 2013: EVMS interview for Aug 2013 matriculation
Aug 2013: med school starts, assuming you get accepted

Results from the last med masters class:
1st MD acceptance came in January (UNC)
More other-school acceptances came during 2nd semester
About 4 EVMS acceptances came in the first week of finals (2nd wk of May)
Another few EVMS acceptances came in the 2nd week of finals
Another few EVMS acceptances came the day before med masters graduation May 21
Another few EVMS acceptances came a week or so after graduation

20 out of 23 med masters students graduating May 21 2011 got acceptances for an MD class starting Aug 2011.

 

[Don15]

oh ok. got it. thanks for the clarification!

is this how all SMPs that have an attached medical school operate? Because I remember reading some only guarantee an interview in the next application cycle. Sorry can't remember specifically which one I read...

 

[DrMidlife]

oh ok. got it. thanks for the clarification!

is this how all SMPs that have an attached medical school operate? Because I remember reading some only guarantee an interview in the next application cycle. Sorry can't remember specifically which one I read...

I'm going back to your original post in this thread, where you say you have a 3.66/30. That GPA is too high to spend money on an SMP. Get a couple more MCAT points, make sure your ECs & LORs are tight, and go for it. If a 3.66 can't get you in, no SMP guaranteed interview is going to make a difference.

 

[bdvz]

20 out of 23 med masters students graduating May 21 2011 got acceptances for an MD class starting Aug 2011.

I might have missed this in the EVMS thread, but are you excluding DO acceptances? Did 20/23 students overall get medical school acceptances this year from the EVMS Med Master's program?

 

[DrMidlife]

I might have missed this in the EVMS thread, but are you excluding DO acceptances? Did 20/23 students overall get medical school acceptances this year from the EVMS Med Master's program?

I'm off by one. Correction: 19/23 of the 2011 graduating med masters have MD acceptances. There haven't been any DO acceptances for that class, not yet.

Of that 19, 5 are going to MD schools other than EVMS.

Cincinnati publishes their SMP alumni pics & contact info & current events. I'm going to try to get EVMS to do the same.

 

[bdvz]

Thanks!

 

[INOHELP]

thanks for the clarification. i was wondering about that too. dr midlife, what was your stats before for undergrad and how did you do for evms smp?

Also, because you stated that evms smp application goes from october - february, will you be updating them with grades received through that same year? i plan to apply in my senior year.

 

[DrMidlife]

thanks for the clarification. i was wondering about that too. dr midlife, what was your stats before for undergrad and how did you do for evms smp?

When people have an mdapps link under their username, you can find out lots of things about them.

Also, because you stated that evms smp application goes from october - february, will you be updating them with grades received through that same year? i plan to apply in my senior year.

EVMS app goes longer than February, but apply as early as you can.

When you apply to an SMP, you submit everything that would go in a med school app. Competitive MCAT score, letters of recommendation, medical and community volunteering, clinical experience, essays, transcripts. If you'll have that during your senior year, then you're good. And yes, they'll be interested in seeing new transcripts as you get them.

Best of luck to you.

 

[rgerber85]

hmmm after my post-bacc i was looking into BU's GMP program (SMP)... they have a solid matriculation rate directly from the program into BU's medical school...

and I was told I am a solid candidate granted I get a 30 or > on the Jan MCAT I'm taking...

 

[DrMidlife]

hmmm after my post-bacc i was looking into BU's GMP program (SMP)... they have a solid matriculation rate directly from the program into BU's medical school...

I don't know of a GMP at BU - can you clarify? (graduate masters program? general medical prep? good meaty postbac?)

If you're talking about this, first, I defer to GujuDoc on all things BUMAMS, and second, I suggest you may want to look at the numbers and reconsider "solid" and "directly". Out of about 170 BUMAMS students starting each fall, 20-25 get into BU med school, and 70% of those who apply to med school get in MD/DO eventually. "Directly" can mean after 2 years in BUMAMS vs one at other SMPs. What that means is that BU isn't betting on you as a candidate for med school - you own that bet entirely on your own.

"Solid" and "directly" at SMPs like EVMS, Cincinnati, Temple ACMS, Tulane ACP mean that after one year in the SMP, a large majority of SMP students immediately start med school, with well over 50% of the SMP students at the host med school. These schools are what I'm talking about when I say you want to submit a complete med school app when you apply to an SMP - when you get into such an SMP, you are effectively given a med school seat with your name on it, and you just have to not screw up.

Don't get me wrong - BUMAMS gets people into MD & DO schools, and is one of the few choices from below the 3.0/30 threshold. Please thoroughly read their (thank goodness recently updated) web pages to clearly understand what you're getting into, particularly how much it will cost and how long it will take. Make no assumptions about how you'll fare if you have below 3.0/30 going into the program. Compare with the cost/benefit of doing, for example, a 2nd bachelors.

Best of luck to you.

 

[rgerber85]

I don't know of a GMP at BU - can you clarify? (graduate masters program? general medical prep? good meaty postbac?)

If you're talking about this, first, I defer to GujuDoc on all things BUMAMS, and second, I suggest you may want to look at the numbers and reconsider "solid" and "directly". Out of about 170 BUMAMS students starting each fall, 20-25 get into BU med school, and 70% of those who apply to med school get in MD/DO eventually. "Directly" can mean after 2 years in BUMAMS vs one at other SMPs. What that means is that BU isn't betting on you as a candidate for med school - you own that bet entirely on your own.

"Solid" and "directly" at SMPs like EVMS, Cincinnati, Temple ACMS, Tulane ACP mean that after one year in the SMP, a large majority of SMP students immediately start med school, with well over 50% of the SMP students at the host med school. These schools are what I'm talking about when I say you want to submit a complete med school app when you apply to an SMP - when you get into such an SMP, you are effectively given a med school seat with your name on it, and you just have to not screw up.

Don't get me wrong - BUMAMS gets people into MD & DO schools, and is one of the few choices from below the 3.0/30 threshold. Please thoroughly read their (thank goodness recently updated) web pages to clearly understand what you're getting into, particularly how much it will cost and how long it will take. Make no assumptions about how you'll fare if you have below 3.0/30 going into the program. Compare with the cost/benefit of doing, for example, a 2nd bachelors.

Best of luck to you.

I've spoken with Dr. Offner about this all...

They (Dr. Offner and other faculty) told me I'd be an excellent candidate if my post-bacc and MCAT falter...

I'm not planning on a second bachelors, but I am enrolled in a 2nd degree program ATM... bio. I'm doing this informally (post-bacc) and taking the MCAT in Jan.

I'll see what works out for me. Right now, this semester I have an english lit class, bio I, and orgo I coming my way... orgo II, bio II, and another english, + possibly a biochem or microbio class next semester... but depending on my chances I may just apply to medical programs if the cum GPA of this post-bacc is 3.8 or higher with a solid mcat score.

IF not.. I may do the Tufts MBS (I know a professor who teaches in the program) or BU's MAMS. I'm considering the MAMS.

it's expensive.. it's a year... and it's a huge risk. It can make or break me. I understand this.