General Surgery and IM

[MikeTheGipper]

Hey are there any major differences (other than the specialty) between the lifestyle between an IM and General Surgery residency? I've heard that both are pretty grueling and it sounds like the hours per week would either reach 80 or come close on a regular basis.

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[Winged Scapula]

The major differences (ignoring the reality that some programs in both specialties regularly go over 80 hrs/week):

IM often has non call months; general surgery has few to none

IM call schedule tends to let up after the intern year; in general surgery, you still take frequent in house call as a senior and Chief resident

A piece of unsolicited advice: please wait until you get to medical school and see what interests you rather than trying to make a decision about a specialty in terms of residency work hours.

 

[MikeTheGipper]

The major differences (ignoring the reality that some programs in both specialties regularly go over 80 hrs/week):

IM often has non call months; general surgery has few to none

IM call schedule tends to let up after the intern year; in general surgery, you still take frequent in house call as a senior and Chief resident

A piece of unsolicited advice: please wait until you get to medical school and see what interests you rather than trying to make a decision about a specialty in terms of residency work hours.

Hey thanks for your help. Also, just because I'm asking a question about residencies does not mean that I'm already trying to decide what specialty I want to go into. Just a question. Thanks again.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Hey thanks for your help. Also, just because I'm asking a question about residencies does not mean that I'm already trying to decide what specialty I want to go into. Just a question. Thanks again.

I apologize for the assumption...but after several years here and literally hundreds of your pre-med colleagues who ARE trying to decide their speciality in advance, it was a natural reaction on my part.

 

[dragonfly99]

We had in house call for all 3 years of my IM residency, and when on call months we took call as frequently, or often more frequently, than the general surgery residents. However, on non call days our work hours would be less than the surgeons...we tend not to round with the attending physician at 6 a.m. or 6:30 a.m. ...7 or 8 is more the norm. Also, for IM you will have some months that are outpatient clinic and that have no call. I only had 1 as an intern, but as a 2nd and 3rd year you will have a lot more...4-6 months where you are on consultation months (where people call you to evaluate and see patients for things like GI, cardiology problems, etc.) and you do not stay overnight for call.

General surgery tends to work significantly more hours than internal medicine...once you clear the intern year in IM, things get a lot better in terms of hours. That isn't necessarily true for the surgeons. I believe this holds true for them once they are in practice as well, though it probably depends somewhat on what the person wants, how many partners he/she has, etc.

 

[Danbo1957]

To directly answer your question of "lifestyle" during IM or GS residency:

You'll work ~80 hours per week in either specialty, you'll have frequent on call in either specialty, and you'll have no outside life in either specialty.

 

[Winged Scapula]

We had in house call for all 3 years of my IM residency, and when on call months we took call as frequently, or often more frequently, than the general surgery residents. However, on non call days our work hours would be less than the surgeons...we tend not to round with the attending physician at 6 a.m. or 6:30 a.m. ...7 or 8 is more the norm. Also, for IM you will have some months that are outpatient clinic and that have no call. I only had 1 as an intern, but as a 2nd and 3rd year you will have a lot more...4-6 months where you are on consultation months (where people call you to evaluate and see patients for things like GI, cardiology problems, etc.) and you do not stay overnight for call.

Thanks for the input. Our IM senior residents were not in house as much as we were, but they had a much bigger program, so more people for the call schedule. Clearly the schedule will vary depending on the program and as Danbo notes, you will work hard regardless of the field.

 

[Saladin MD]

To directly answer your question of "lifestyle" during IM or GS residency:

You'll work ~80 hours per week in either specialty, you'll have frequent on call in either specialty, and you'll have no outside life in either specialty.

I feel like crying. Aren't they changing it from 80 to 60 hours per week?

 

[Winged Scapula]

I feel like crying. Aren't they changing it from 80 to 60 hours per week?

No. There has been some talk of reducing hours further but it is NOWHERE near implementation. It took several years from the decision to implementing the 80 hours.

And bear in mind that most PDs think that if hours are reduced any further your residency will have to become LONGER. Do you really want that?

 

[Saladin MD]

And bear in mind that most PDs think that if hours are reduced any further your residency will have to become LONGER. Do you really want that?

No!

 

[Winged Scapula]

No!

Didn't think so.

 

[RTrain]

I feel like crying. Aren't they changing it from 80 to 60 hours per week?

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about 80 hours. Maybe I'm saying this as someone with Stockholm Syndrome or something, but truly, it's not that soul-crushing. It becomes routine pretty quick.

 

[Saladin MD]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about 80 hours. Maybe I'm saying this as someone with Stockholm Syndrome or something, but truly, it's not that soul-crushing. It becomes routine pretty quick.

Cool. It's not the hard work that is scaring me. Just the fact that you can have no outside life. I will have to put my extra-curriculars on hold for 3 years. Oh well. That's life. Sucks. But will have to man up about it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Cool. It's not the hard work that is scaring me. Just the fact that you can have no outside life. I will have to put my extra-curriculars on hold for 3 years. Oh well. That's life. Sucks. But will have to man up about it.

I don't think you have to put your extracurriculars on hold, you just have to scale back (if its as time intensive as it sounds). There are 168 hours each week, generally less than half of that is spent at the hospital.

Almost all of us have *some* time to exercise, go to the movies, out to dinner with friends, attend parties, etc. ECs that take 3 hours a day might not be feasible but its a bit dramatic to say you will have to put them on hold for 3 years (which by the way is the length of IM training not surgery, so if you are thinking about gen surgery, extend that to 5+ years).

 

[Saladin MD]

I don't think you have to put your extracurriculars on hold, you just have to scale back (if its as time intensive as it sounds). There are 168 hours each week, generally less than half of that is spent at the hospital.

Almost all of us have *some* time to exercise, go to the movies, out to dinner with friends, attend parties, etc. ECs that take 3 hours a day might not be feasible but its a bit dramatic to say you will have to put them on hold for 3 years

That's good to hear.

(which by the way is the length of IM training not surgery, so if you are thinking about gen surgery, extend that to 5+ years).

Yes, I'm interested in IM. Put in my 3 years of time and then do some type of shift work.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yes, I'm interested in IM. Put in my 3 years of time and then do some type of shift work.

Thanks for your input.

You're welcome. For some reason I thought you were the OP ("general surgery vs IM") so thought you were vacilating between the two.