General Surgery Interviews (Advice needed)

[BeeGee]

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I've been reading alot of posts concerning 2001 interviews in IM and Radiology but none yet for General Surgery. 🙁 If anyone has interviewed, share your experiences: where was the interview, describe your day, likes/dislikes, overall feelings about the visit. Also, what do you think that upcoming 4th years interested in surgery should be doing now to improve our chances in the match? Thanks in advance. **I've been reading Iserson's since 2nd year. It is excellent.

 

[dr.evil]

I'm going through surgery interviews right now and have found them to be, overall, very laid back. I've interviewed mostly in the midwest and south. Most interviews are "What questions do you have about the program?" or "Tell me about yourself", "What are you looking for in a program", "Why general surgery? You could make more money and have an easier lifestyle doing _____". I've yet to have a malignant interview. I still have many interviews in January.

The day generally begins the night before interviews where you will meet residents and sometimes faculty in a meet and greet social with drinks and appetizers. This is where you actually get most of your questions answered by the residents who are going through what you will be going through in 6 months. It is usually laid back and enjoyable (low stress). You get a pretty good feel about the resident's happiness with the program/training as well as their quality of life. The interview days have varied from attending the morning conference at 7am prior to interviews or just a simple introduction to the program and the plans for the day. Usually, you then are interviewed by various faculty members (usually 2-4 one-on-one interviews, but some have been two-on-one and some have been up to 7 individual interviews). After that, they usually feed you lunch followed by a tour of the hospitals. Day usually ends between 1pm-3pm.

I won't comment on specific programs here as that could be endless, but I've actually liked the majority of the programs although they can vary greatly in hours, rotations, faculty, and facilities.

I guess your a 3rd year now? Just try to do well in your 3rd year clerkships so you are able to get your pick of interviews to attend. Meet with the surgery attendings you think may write you letters so they know you're interested (especially your chairman). Think about your 4th year schedule now including sub-I's in surgery in early 4th year for letters as well as "vacation rotations" in Dec. & Jan. so interviewing is without constraints.

Luckily right now, surgery applications are down so competition is only great at the more academic "name" institutions. Interviews are not too difficult to obtain. My advice is to really know why you want to do general surgery and do you plan on a fellowship, research, etc. These will all factor into your answers and future decisions of residency program.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[fourthyr]

LionTrees,

what places have you liked? or what are your top 3 right now?

I'm interviewing for surgery, as well.... but looking all over.

 

[GTMD2Bee]

I second pretty much what LionTrees stated. I too am interviewing pretty much in the Southeast, but I am also checking out some programs in MI. The majority of the programs that I applied to have all been laid back interviews without any major pimping. I can only think of one where I was pimped somewhat. I think the trend is going to a more resident-friendly type of program as even programs notorious for being malignant are changing their ways.

There is not too much that I can add to his advice for a JMS except that I feel it's important to get LORs from surgeons in the general surgery field (may include CT, Plastics, etc... not as much for those in ENT, ortho, or NS). Even more important than that is to get a LOR from somebody who knows you and you are sure will write a good LOR. I know some people who got hosed because they got their chairman to write them a letter when the chairman didn't really know them at all. They got a LOR but it was a very weak letter. I personally didn't get a chairman's letter, and I have still been told from the various programs that my LORs were very strong.

I agree with Liontrees again on the point of knowing why you want to go into surgery because that will be asked a lot during the interviews. Also know what type of program you want to go to. University programs and community programs tend to be very different, and there are actually programs that are a hybrid in between.

Apply early. Get organized either late in the 3rd year or early in the fourth year and start planning your application. Work on your personal statement, easily the hardest part I thought and CV. Secure your LORs. Get everything turned in as early as possible. If you turn an app. in later you risk the chance of being competitive for an interview but all the spots being filled already.

Do well on your 3rd year clerkships, do a sub-internship early in your 4th year, get good LORs, apply early, and stay organized is the best advice I can give on getting into a surgical residency.

 

[dr.evil]

fourthyr,
I've liked St. Louis University, Texas A&M/Scott&White, University of Oklahoma, University of Arkansas. I still have interviews for UT Southwestern, Wake Forest, Baylor, Mayo Clinic, Vanderbilt and some state university porgrams (Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, Tennessee).
I skipped out on Arizona interviews and New Mexico b/c of problems within the programs.

I'm not really looking for a highly academic program but one with early OR experience, a large surgical caseload, and one that is halfway tolerable. The city the program in is of zero importance to me but I want to be trained by excellent faculty who want to teach me and give me a little autonomy.

GTMD2BEE is pretty much on with his recommendations. Start writing your personal statement now cuz it is the least fun and most time consuming. TURN IN YOUR APPLICATION EARLY. I think this was a huge reason I got some of the interviews I received. Just fill out the info with your personal statement and send it on its way. You can then wait for your letter to be submitted, your dean's letter, and your transcript. My app was submitted in late August (pretty early).

 

[BeeGee]

Just wanted to re-post so anyone new whose interviewed can share their experiences...
--BeeGee

 

[droliver]

Anyone interview @ Louisville this year here?

 

[GTMD2Bee]

For what it's worth: I was looking for a smaller program (nothing larger than 4 catergoricals/year) with early OR experience but with a commitment to academics, and great resident morale. I personally didn't want to spend the first two years being a floor monkey surrounded by people who hated coming to work. Given that, I looked at some of the stronger community programs and smaller university programs. The best mix I found was in programs that were a community-university mix. So far the programs that I have really liked are: UT-Knoxville, Carolinas Medical Center, Memorial Health in Savannah. I still have interviews at WFU, Greenville SC and UT-Chattanooga that I have heard good things about. I thought about interviewing at some of the bigger "name" institutions but they just don't fit my personality in most cases.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by GTMD2Bee:
•I personally didn't want to spend the first two years being a floor monkey surrounded by people who hated coming to work. •••

😛

 

[GTMD2Bee]

😀 No offense intended Kimberli. Just my opinion obtained from experience at my university program using terms from my interns. 🙂 In the end, I believe you just find the program that is the best fit for your personality. Whether you mind or don't mind not getting into the OR early, but I still don't think that I could work with people who they worked with.

 

[BeeGee]

Have any of you done a subI at Mayo? and Is it really hared to get an interview there? I wanted to do a Sub-I at the Mayo site in Jacksonville (because that's the closest one to me), but I only think they're only offered at the site in Rochester, Minnesota and I want to stay close to home. How can I get my foot in the door of the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville if I can't even do a Sub-I there? Help? 🙁

 

[Roentgen]

Can't say for sure, but I imagine that the Mayo Jacksonville faculty has a strong contingent hailing from Rochester. If you do an away at mother Mayo there, you could probably get a good recommendation/phone call made on your behalf to the Jacksonville consultants.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by GTMD2Bee:
• 😀 No offense intended Kimberli. Just my opinion obtained from experience at my university program using terms from my interns. 🙂 In the end, I believe you just find the program that is the best fit for your personality. Whether you mind or don't mind not getting into the OR early, but I still don't think that I could work with people who they worked with.•••

None taken...I simply recognized myself in your comments. 😉

 

[dr.evil]

GTMD2BEE and I were separated at birth 😛 I am looking at very similar type programs and, although applied at some high profile university programs, feel like my personality is a better fit at the smaller programs with a strong emphasis on TEACHING the residents. I did however interview at UT-Southwestern and found it to be excellent in every aspect (except transplant) and found it contrary to the belief of malignant faculty or overworked residents. I agree that being confined to the floor for 2 years is a little disenchanting and causes you to forget why your suffering.

I have hear absolutely wonderful things about UT-Knoxville and regret not interviewing there. This place sounds like a diamond in the rough.

For BeeGee, obtaining an interview at Mayo, Jacksonville must not be too difficult because they gave my *****ic butt one 😀 I hear the program is quite good but I have no idea how you can get your name known to them if you can't do a sub-I. You can likely spend a few days with some of the residents and faculty and "shadow" them for a time.

OK, now that I'm wrapping up all of my interviews, so I guess I'll refresh my new top places although I'm not sure about the order.

Texas A&M/Scott&White: Strong in vascular,head and neck, laparoscopy/endoscopy. Weak in trauma/burns. Great faculty, facility, and residents. Temple, TX is not your ideal bachelor town

UT-Southwestern: Strong in thoracics,trauma. Weak in transplant. Great committment to educating residents, wonderful laparoscopic training skills lab. They really give you 24 hours off per week. No use in looking at call rooms cuz when you're on call, you're on call.

Baylor in Dallas: Strong in vascular, transplant. Weak in preoperative skills. Nice place where you scrub with privates a lot. Did not get a real feel of how much the residents actually operated at Baylor. Rotate at JPS (a county hospital)

I just realized all these schools are in Texas
😱 That's a little scary.

 

[droliver]

Liontrees,

the two Dallas programs you mentioned Southwestern & Baylor are both outstanding programs with very different characters. I interviewed @ them some years ago but things have probably not changed much. Baylor is a very large community programs which turns off a # of people who are interested in academic careers or for fellowship training potential. It is VERY competative for a community program, as I remember everyone they had taken for the last 5 years had been AOA in med school. A number of Southwestern students who wanted to stay in Dallas chose it over Southwestern b/c it has the reputation for being much more lifestyle friendly & less stressed out place than Parkland.

 

[Kadyra]

I was just going to send this to BeeGee, but I figured more people would probably be interested in Mayo general surgery in Jacksonville.

I have a friend who is a PGY2 at Mayo-Jacksonville in FM. She went to the University of South Carolina for med school and she called herself "an average med student," meaning she definitely wasn't a gunner and most certainly did not honor everything. I don't know her stats other than that. She considered switching to surgery from FM because she liked the interaction she had with the surgeons so much. Here is what she had to say about it:

"OK, I will try to answer some questions:
1. Sub I's - yep, you can do rotations in Jacksonville in all parts of the program. I would definately recommend doing a surgery rotation here.
2. Surgery residency: this has got to be one of the BEST surgery programs. I was so amazing close to switching programs from FM to surg, but I have always liked being in the OR. Of note, they require a good board score, so study, take a class, whatever, but do good. I might be able to find out the numbers. And apply early, get ERAS in because they usually pick their folks mid January and interview early NOV if not earlier, so get the sub internship before Jan.
3. Rochester - you can do Sub I's there too. Note - Rochester is a lot more traditional but still good for learning. We are more laid back here, distant from the mothership."

So surgery sub-I's can definitely be done in Jacksonville. How to get one... I have no idea. I can relay questions to her (she'd rather them come from me than from a zillion people she doesn't know) so if you want more info or the general stats or whatever, let me know.

 

[GTMD2Bee]

Anybody notice how random getting interviews can be regardless of your board scores, etc... I got interviews at some places where people that I know have better scores didn't, and then denied some interviews at programs that I didn't feel were as competitive. Any similar experiences?

 

[dr.evil]

Although I didn't experience the randomness of interviews, my friends going into orthopedics have. Top students with top boards have not received interviews at some places that 2nd quartile students have. This is program dependent and for various reasons I'll leave unsaid.

New question:

Someone (anyone) help me out here. It seems droliver has some input on the southwest programs and these are the ones I'm interested in. I'm trying to create a rank list for GS currently. 😕 My top four programs are UT-Southwestern, Baylor in Dallas, Texas A&M/Scott&White, and Kansas in Wichita. As you can see, my programs are not highly academic ones except for Southwestern and this is fine with me. I really did not enjoy the more academic institutions overall but felt Southwestern was an exception. Anyone out there from these institutions? Any advice?

OK. I will never do academics. I may pursue a fellowship and would like to close no doors on that possibility. I want to be well trained in ALL aspects of general surgery. Each place has their weakness, but which ones have the least?

Any input, insight, insanity, incapacitation... whatever.? thanks

 

[droliver]

Liontrees,

you could not go wrong with either Southwestern or Baylor-Dallas. Southwestern has more prestige in academic circles. Baylor residents work with many of the best private guys in town & work in a gorgeous hospital. I know a former grad. from here in Louisville who is a Vascular attending at Baylor. He likes their program but feels the residents are pampered too much 😉 (if you consider that a bad thing) as compared to here. One of the thoracic fellows here a few years ago did general & vascular surgery @ Baylor-Dallas & he liked the program alot as well (I think he is back there too with one of the the CT groups there). One of the chief plastic surgery fellows here now did her general & a breast oncology fellowship there & she really liked the program as well. In summary, it had a very good rep. in academic circles for a community program (probably the best in the USA)when I interviewed, recent graduates of the program have endorsed it when I've talked to them, and its graduates seemed to have not much trouble getting fellowships (albeit I do not know their track record @ the most competative places for these).
Southwestern also has great word of mouth among applicants year in & out. One of our best students from here last year went there for gen. surgery. The impressions I got from students @ SW (where my brother & sister-in-law are both current students incidentally) is that Baylor seemed to appeal to the students from SW who were 1) less interested in trauma, 2) less interested in academics, 3) less interested in fellowship training.

 

[JS-UNMC]

Any impressions on U of Colorado, U of Nebraska, Creighton, or St Joseph Exempla (Denver) gen surg residencies???
Also, How much does research experience play into securing gen surg residencies at these places?

 

[fourthyr]

If you know your first choice for surgery residency prior to interviewing at that program, would you let them know in the interview?

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

How about the University of Kentucky? No one seems to ever mention them on here. I have heard from several physicians that in general U of L is better than UK for residency, but the lack of interest here leads me to wonder if perhaps they are considered sub-par nationwide? I would especially like to know droliver's thoughts on the reputation at UK, specifically general surgery and other surgical fields.

 

[Jamier2]

Originally posted by Pikevillemedstudent:
•I would especially like to know droliver's thoughts on the reputation at UK, specifically general surgery and other surgical fields.•••

Same here, especially since I'm 99% sure I'll be going to UK over UofL next fall. 🙂

 

[droliver]

pikevilllemedstudent,

I have never heard anyone refer to UK as sub-par for surgical training. I honestly don't know much about their program, we rarely have UK seniors rotate here & have not had anyone in the program in years from UK. In the past they have had some faculty of distinction, but the only two names I know (off the top of my head)there now are Dr Park who is very prolific in the laparoscopy literature & Dr. Cohen who came there last year from Sloan Memorial Hospital. They have a nice VA hospital. Trauma is a lot less busy than here I understand. The scale of the program @ UK is signifigantly smaller than here & it seems to attract some of our surgery students who are either turned off by the personality of our program or who do not match here. If you weren't interested in academics as a career & knew you didn't want to be as competative @ some of the most exclusive institutions for fellowships, Lexington would be a nice place to train. Otherwise, I would probably look elsewhere if those are your goals.

 

[Pikevillemedstudent]

Thank you very much for your reply droliver. I do have one question about the following statement, "If you weren't interested in academics as a career & knew you didn't want to be as competative @ some of the most exclusive institutions for fellowships, Lexington would be a nice place to train. Otherwise, I would probably look elsewhere if those are your goals." Are you talking about all residencies @ UK or only surgery?

Pike

 

[droliver]

I'm just refering to surgery, although I bet the same generalization could apply to most of the training programs there. That is not to say some of the graduates from a place like U. of Kentucky don't go on into successful academic careers, it's just that if you know that you have those goals (academic career or say doing a Surgical Oncology fellowship @ MD-Anderson for instance) your oppurtunities for achieving them will be @ a more hi-profile institution

 

[fourthyr]

How does one express interest in non#1 programs?

Everyone seems to be concerned about this.

 

[droliver]

4th year,

please explain?

 

[fourthyr]

My friends and I are wondering how to tell programs other than our first choice that we are very much interested. Aside from saying, "very much interested". I'm sure they don't wanna hear that they're gonna be #2, or lower.

That's our concern.

 

[droliver]

Yeah, I wouldn't tip your hand like that. It's a little like a poker game. I wouldn't lie to a program director if they called you on the phone (which does happen), but don't be too committal in your comments unless you really want to go somewhere. Second visits will show you are really interested if feasible.

 

[Winged Scapula]

C'mon guys...its like dating. Do you tell guy/gal number 2 that they rank so? Of course not, unless you are planning on counting yourself out of the running (and any subsequent "action").

There are many polite ways to be vague yet still express interest. Obviously its unfair in residency matching, just as in dating, to string a program along - if you really aren't interested, you might as well tell a program. However, if a program isn't your first choice, but you are interested, a non-committal response such as "I really like XY and Z about your program and am seriously considering it" would suffice.

 

[neilc]

if someone could just tell me what dating is like...

i seem to have forgoten
😛 <img src="graemlins/pity.gif" border="0" alt="[Pity]" />