GenesisCare filing for bankruptcy

[communitydoc13]

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They practice in a way that creates a market for PA

Yep. Let's not forget that there are some bad actors among us, and they make things worse for the rest of us.

Places like Genesis and before them 21c are almost too big to care. (I know I perseverate on scale, but I think scale is the main thing Gvt needs to control). 21c hit with multiple penalties that seem huge to us but were inconsequential to them.

In a small place, dealing with a few insurance rejections can make your week suck depending on admin's response. Smaller scale begets accountability.

 

[deleted1111261]

GC practices in a way that creates the need for PA
It is “maximize revenue at all times” mentality that makes it hard to have empathy.

I get it if you hate PA, but it was a reaction to shenanigans, not just an opportunity to make our lives hell

 

[thecarbonionangle]

IMRT for nasal ALA is just bad because you can get a beautiful plan with a personalized bolus and skin collimation. That is just lazy. I keep seeing people mention single node RNI. It is acceptable to do RNI in these cases so i don’t quite follow.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

GC practices in a way that creates the need for PA
It is “maximize revenue at all times” mentality that makes it hard to have empathy.

I get it if you hate PA, but it was a reaction to shenanigans, not just an opportunity to make our lives hell

Having competed against 21c and Genesis care in different locations, I can attest that there are some home grown shenanigans with their approach. I understand there are good and bad individuals but the system ultimately is the same and eventually people turn to the dark side!

 

[deleted1111261]

IMRT for nasal ALA is just bad because you can get a beautiful plan with a personalized bolus and skin collimation. That is just lazy. I keep seeing people mention single node RNI. It is acceptable to do RNI in these cases so i don’t quite follow.

I am not an imrt nazi
I like imrt - I have said that a lot.
But have a rationale that makes sense

 

[A_DeMichele]

More importantly, they are wasting patients' time and delaying their cancer care.

GenesisCare has the best approach.

Refuse the "peer to peer" and go straight to appeal. Don't let a "peer" on the other end of the phone make money regarding your treatment recommendations. Cut the "peer" out.

It saves your patient precious time.

Document their name in the chart and give it to the patient. They deserve to know who is advocating for their insurance company. If they fail in the future they deserve to know the name of the person who caused a delay in their care.

When you see a painful bone met, do not make the patient suffer by applying for IMRT like GC used to do. good riddance

 

[SneakyBooger]

https://www.obroncology.com/article/oncologists-fired-amid-private-equity-backed-bankruptcy

 

[sirspamalot]

GC going sour makes my cockles warm. Some very special people in that organization got exactly what they deserved.

OTOH Plenty of unfortunate innocent bystanders also got harmed unfortunately..

 

[Mandelin Rain]

GC going sour makes my cockles warm. Some very special people in that organization got exactly what they deserved.

OTOH Plenty of unfortunate innocent bystanders also got harmed unfortunately..

All those people that deserve something will come out just fine. Because that’s how capitalism works now.

 

[sirspamalot]

The very top alphas will, but the mid levels who sneered at others will not be soon forgotten. #karma sometimes takes a dozen years or more, but that bill gets paid.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Any updates on this boil on the ass of radiation oncology?

 

[mike-sheree]

I think 500-600 is reasonable/realistic for those kind of calls per hour. Shot the breeze with a hydrogel knockoff vendor and got $500 for 55 mins.

But for 21c/Genesis, id demand extra lol

Attorneys with 3 years of law school charge way more than $500/hr. Why do Dr’s so willingly suck hind teat?

 

[temujim]

Attorneys with 3 years of law school charge way more than $500/hr. Why do Dr’s so willingly suck hind teat?

What are folks charging lawyers for case review? I'm at 750/hr with a 3 hr minimum. That's been set for 4-5 years. May be time to bump that up bc of inflation...

 

[medgator]

Attorneys with 3 years of law school charge way more than $500/hr. Why do Dr’s so willingly suck hind teat?

Depends where. The standard rates I've seen for barred lawyers in my area is $350/hr.

I don't mind spending an hour of my time getting paid at a $500 hourly rate (while driving into work) to trash Boston scientific and barrigel

 

[yesmaster]

by the way, off-topic, but what’s to stop an academic medical center from swooping in and buying genesiscare USA like COH did with ctca?

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

by the way, off-topic, but what’s to stop an academic medical center from swooping in and buying genesiscare USA like COH did with ctca?

Nothing. Haven't heard of any academic centers putting bids in for everything, but have heard about academic bids for regional centers.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

by the way, off-topic, but what’s to stop an academic medical center from swooping in and buying genesiscare USA like COH did with ctca?

Due diligence probably 🤣

 

[sirspamalot]

Yeah, COH bought a turd. But they bought that turd cheaply.

 

[medgator]

Yeah, COH bought a turd. But they bought that turd cheaply.

They probably made the turd stink less too which is better for the rest of us and society at large

 

[sirspamalot]

The guy that owned/founded CTCA shoulda sold it about 5 years prior, when it was worth 1B+ and cranking. He ended up selling it for like a few hundred million. Don't know how much debt played a role in the price. Several sites had closed, was going down the drain and fast or so the reporting appeared to indicate. The owner was a tool from what I read, who went thru a nasty divorce to boot. The predatory tactics and those lovely commercials touting better outcomes thankfully are gone now.

Instead, we have ROCR and FFS Exempt Proton Centers of America but hey, its better.. right?

 

[Fpg1245]

The guy that owned/founded CTCA shoulda sold it about 5 years prior, when it was worth 1B+ and cranking. He ended up selling it for like a few hundred million. Don't know how much debt played a role in the price. Several sites had closed, was going down the drain and fast or so the reporting appeared to indicate. The owner was a tool from what I read, who went thru a nasty divorce to boot. The predatory tactics and those lovely commercials touting better outcomes thankfully are gone now.

Instead, we have ROCR and FFS Exempt Proton Centers of America but hey, its better.. right?

I remember seeing them on TV all the time as a resident. I had to take a shower after that to get the slime off me.

 

[sirspamalot]

Yeah. The radoncs that worked for them were really, REALLY suspect.

 

[bob1988]

Any updates on this boil on the ass of radiation oncology?

https://archive.ph/XdzDA

Looks like they have plenty of bidders, I imagine it's gotta be sold off piecemeal

 

[thesauce]

https://archive.ph/XdzDA

Looks like they have plenty of bidders, I imagine it's gotta be sold off piecemeal

So much for consolidation of medical practices. This is a breakup of the biggest group of all.

 

[medgator]

So much for consolidation of medical practices. This is a breakup of the biggest group of all.

Biggest break up of a floundering pp consortium. Not moving the needle much I'm guessing compared to all of the hospital and PPS exempt practices out there that have been picking PPs dry for years

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

So much for consolidation of medical practices. This is a breakup of the biggest group of all.

Well, except all the pieces will be bought by *drumroll*

Existing systems!

I'm not sure what to call this. It's definitely not reducing consolidation, perhaps it's zero sum?

 

[evilbooyaa]

So much for consolidation of medical practices. This is a breakup of the biggest group of all.

You previously had N practices.

Now, existing practices will buy little pieces, and thus you will have N-1 practices, unless some of these components go solo (which how would they, if GenesisCare owns the machines?)

Roundabout path but still consolidation

 

[A_DeMichele]

https://archive.ph/XdzDA

Looks like they have plenty of bidders, I imagine it's gotta be sold off piecemeal

“ The understanding is that 21st Century Oncology, which had previously entered bankruptcy, struggled with historical billing problems.
Once under the ownership of GenesisCare, the company has had challenges extracting payments out of insurance companies “

 

[dieABRdie]

So much for consolidation of medical practices. This is a breakup of the biggest group of all.

I've heard from a locums therapist that an "actual" private practice here is buying up a couple of centers from GC that cover a region of the state. Might be the opportunity for things to swing the other way for once.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I've heard from a locums therapist that an "actual" private practice here is buying up a couple of centers from GC that cover a region of the state. Might be the opportunity for things to swing the other way for once.

Though I don't know specifically what state you're referring to, I can confirm (from the person doing the buying) this is indeed happening in at least one area.

The B in Bankruptcy stands for Beam On!

 

[thesauce]

I've heard from a locums therapist that an "actual" private practice here is buying up a couple of centers from GC that cover a region of the state. Might be the opportunity for things to swing the other way for once.

In Florida?

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Ive conversely heard that small purchases are being discouraged. Obviously, whatever's best for the creditors should rule the day, but it sounds like "a couple" centers aren't for sale, unless I suppose, they're on such a geographic island nobody else would want them. I'm kind of expecting bigger entities, even academic centers, to purchase chunks, keep what they want and resell the rest.

 

[medgator]

Ive conversely heard that small purchases are being discouraged. Obviously, whatever's best for the creditors should rule the day, but it sounds like "a couple" centers aren't for sale, unless I suppose, they're on such a geographic island nobody else would want them. I'm kind of expecting bigger entities, even academic centers, to purchase chunks, keep what they want and resell the rest.

Some won't get purchased and will close/liquidate. Have heard that's happening with some frequency too

 

[fiji128]

A full and complete retelling/history from the founding of 21C all the way to the collapse and the selling off of all these individual practices would make for an interesting read/10 part pod cast.

 

[NotJasonBeckta]

A full and complete retelling/history from the founding of 21C all the way to the collapse and the selling off of all these individual practices would make for an interesting read/10 part pod cast.

 

[sirspamalot]

They started from the bottom now they... There.

 

[thesauce]

A full and complete retelling/history from the founding of 21C all the way to the collapse and the selling off of all these individual practices would make for an interesting read/10 part pod cast.

Anyone have a cliff notes version?

 

[sirspamalot]

Practice grew. Dreams of riches. Bought lotsa practices. Oops, bad reimbursement and failure to scale, so try fraud. Oops, no go. Sell! Another company steps the plate. Rinse, repeat.

And finally BK.

That quick enough?

 

[medgator]

Practice grew. Dreams of riches. Bought lotsa practices. Oops, bad reimbursement and failure to scale, so try fraud. Oops, no go. Sell! Another company steps the plate. Rinse, repeat.

And finally BK.

That quick enough?

21C bought a lot of these practices during the housing bubble at peak prices. Could correlate that time period to peak rad onc reimbursement as well as i bet, photon wise

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Practice grew. Dreams of riches. Bought lotsa practices. Oops, bad reimbursement and failure to scale, so try fraud. Oops, no go. Sell! Another company steps the plate. Rinse, repeat.

And finally BK.

That quick enough?

BK?

 

[medgator]

BK?

 

[sirspamalot]

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Ah. B for Ban, K for Krupt.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Thought I read today is the day bids are due.

 

[Reaganite]

Bids were supposed to be "due" in September, but they keep extending. Apparently common with chapter 11.

 

[sirspamalot]

Yep, gotta catch'm all. Lotsa low bids at first.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Moved to November 1st

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

View attachment 378311

Moved to November 1st

For style purposes should really move it out to 11/11.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

I dunno 11/1 is the day of the dead

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I dunno 11/1 is the day of the dead

Someone frame this joke please.