Genetic Pharmacist?

[ChemistWiz]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

So as some of you might know there is a branch of pharmacy called pharmacogenomics (pharmacogenetics) and this branch is relatively new and can't really be taught extensively. However if in the next couple of years this field could grow exponentially and if thats the case would this result in a genetic pharmacist?

Personally i think that sounds fascinating, but i'm upset by the lack of schools that actually teach it. What are your thoughts on this? Anybody actually taken a class on it and have some thoughts? Could Genetic pharmacy be the new Nuclear pharmacy in terms of more jobs for pharmacists?

please share.

 

[docss26]

So as some of you might know there is a branch of pharmacy called pharmacogenomics (pharmacogenetics) and this branch is relatively new and can't really be taught extensively. However if in the next couple of years this field could grow exponentially and if thats the case would this result in a genetic pharmacist?

Personally i think that sounds fascinating, but i'm upset by the lack of schools that actually teach it. What are your thoughts on this? Anybody actually taken a class on it and have some thoughts? Could Genetic pharmacy be the new Nuclear pharmacy in terms of more jobs for pharmacists?

please share.

That's pretty interesting. I'd also like to know more about this. When I interviewed at Shenandoah, they told us about their pharmacogenomics projects they had their faculty and students working on.

 

[UES Girl]

So as some of you might know there is a branch of pharmacy called pharmacogenomics (pharmacogenetics) and this branch is relatively new and can't really be taught extensively. However if in the next couple of years this field could grow exponentially and if thats the case would this result in a genetic pharmacist?

Personally i think that sounds fascinating, but i'm upset by the lack of schools that actually teach it. What are your thoughts on this? Anybody actually taken a class on it and have some thoughts? Could Genetic pharmacy be the new Nuclear pharmacy in terms of more jobs for pharmacists?

please share.

Don't be upset about it no being taught, my school ( UCSF) actually teaches pharmacogenomics and has it integrated as a part of the curriculum. Personalized medicine is definitely a new hot area in patient care, so pharmacogenomics appeals to this need for personalized medicine.


I don't know about being a separate speciality like nuclear medicine, but I do think as our knowledge of pharmacogenomics grows we'll be taught and trained even more more. Right now the frontiers of our scientifc knowledge along with some ethical concerns are the limiting factors to what extent it is taught ( we can't teach something we have little data on). As far as being a specialist in it, you can always pursue a graduate degree in pharmacogenomics or medical genetics. 🙂

 

[ChemistWiz]

Don't be upset about it no being taught, my school ( UCSF) actually teaches pharmacogenomics and has it integrated as a part of the curriculum. Personalized medicine is definitely a new hot area in patient care, so pharmacogenomics appeals to this need for personalized medicine.


I don't know about being a separate speciality like nuclear medicine, but I do think as our knowledge of pharmacogenomics grows we'll be taught and trained even more more. Right now the frontiers of our scientifc knowledge along with some ethical concerns are the limiting factors to what extent it is taught ( we can't teach something we have little data on). As far as being a specialist in it, you can always pursue a graduate degree in pharmacogenomics or medical genetics. 🙂

you go to UCSF!!!!!!! thats amazing 😀. Umm I mean thats interesting. lol
If you've taken pharmacogenomics yet did you like it? Personally I really enjoy pharmacy but i also really enjoy genetics so I thought it was a good choice for me, alas since little is known its hard to find writing on it. What schools offer graduate degrees in pharmacogenomics?

 

[Praziquantel86]

you go to UCSF!!!!!!! thats amazing 😀. Umm I mean thats interesting. lol
If you've taken pharmacogenomics yet did you like it? Personally I really enjoy pharmacy but i also really enjoy genetics so I thought it was a good choice for me, alas since little is known its hard to find writing on it. What schools offer graduate degrees in pharmacogenomics?

I wouldn't say little is known...in fact, there's a journal dedicated to it, along with quite a few publications regularly in other medical journals. You don't hear all that much about it yet because it isn't entirely practical for everyday use yet.

I'm not sure if anyone offers a graduate degree in pharmacogenomics degree yet (could be wrong though). Anyone involved in pharmacogenomics that I've come across has their degree in a related field and then specialized (population genetics, pharmacology, molecular biology, clinical doctorates, etc.).

Are you currently in high school? If so, most of this stuff will be over your head. It's good that you're interested, but you'll have to get through basic genetics, pharmacology, biochemistry, etc. before you'll really be able to understand pharmacogenomics to any significant degree.

 

[joetrisman]

While I will admit that I am both fascinated and excited about the prospects that pharmacogenomics and pharmacogenetics hold for personalized medicine, I am skeptical as well. Have a particular polymorphism of a gene does not attribute the rest of the genome. If you do take into account the rest of the genome, you still have to think of regulation of gene expression. However this also leads you to think of regulation of translation, protein interactions, and variants of activity that are apparent in signal transduction pathways if you've ever looked into it. Add all this together, make it dynamic, and then you might be able to have a good "guesstimate" on what will occur. I think bioinformatics will bring all of this together though as technology progresses.

 

[ChemistWiz]

well you are right i am in high school but remember if you have a drive for something anything is possible. I personally think this sounds possible and fun and UCSF offers a PHD in pharmacogenomics so I oculd go there and get a pharmD/PHD joined degree or maybe ill realize i just want my PHD in college or maybe ill push it out all together it depends. The future holds many possibilities and its said to cut pharmacists short but maybe genetic pharmacy will be the rising star of pharmacists, you know?

 

[rxlea]

I get to take pharmacogenomics my second semester of P1 year. Woot! Soooooo looking forward to it.

 

[UES Girl]

well you are right i am in high school but remember if you have a drive for something anything is possible. I personally think this sounds possible and fun and UCSF offers a PHD in pharmacogenomics so I oculd go there and get a pharmD/PHD joined degree or maybe ill realize i just want my PHD in college or maybe ill push it out all together it depends. The future holds many possibilities and its said to cut pharmacists short but maybe genetic pharmacy will be the rising star of pharmacists, you know?

I don't think he's trying to put you down. 🙂 I think he's just saying it's a a comlpicated subject that requires a certain level of background knowledge - you definitely need to take genetics and biochemistry, pharmacology and maybe even physiology before you can even gauge what the subject is about.

I'm excited that you are so excited 🙂, it's more like we are saying, at this point you need your basic sciences before you can jump into pharmacogenomics. You may find yourself hating it for all you really know unless you explore that path.

 

[Tinkerbell22]

I was the same way in high school. During graduation/investiture they kind of listed the schools/expected majors/interests of the top ranked students and when they interviewed me I said I wanted to study pharmacogenetics (back in 2005). The lady reading the announcements was like... "Ph-ph-pharm-mmmm-a-cooo- ge ge ge... okayyyy". I don't think they even read the whole word.

 

[jung1]

While I will admit that I am both fascinated and excited about the prospects that pharmacogenomics and pharmacogenetics hold for personalized medicine, I am skeptical as well. Have a particular polymorphism of a gene does not attribute the rest of the genome. If you do take into account the rest of the genome, you still have to think of regulation of gene expression. However this also leads you to think of regulation of translation, protein interactions, and variants of activity that are apparent in signal transduction pathways if you've ever looked into it. Add all this together, make it dynamic, and then you might be able to have a good "guesstimate" on what will occur. I think bioinformatics will bring all of this together though as technology progresses.

I see what you're saying but all things equal, different polymorphisms often have different activity and expression levels that directly affect drug efficacy. For example, there is a SNP that regulates some CYP450 that directly affects Warfarin metabolism. I believe they now use these EZ type kits to routinely test for these alleles to determine the proper dosage. So they're not just looking at gene polymorphisms but polymorphisms across the whole genome. SNPs often lurk in regulatory regions that do directly affect protein levels because it affects say the binding of some inducer protein. The hardest part imo is that finding useful information requires large samples sizes and very carefully controlled studies, studies that need to be repeated to validate findings.

 

[UBCmicrobi]

Pharmacogenomics is taught in 2nd year at UBC. I didn't really learn anything that wasn't covered in genetics/biochem, though....

 

[desmoulins45179]

well you are right i am in high school but remember if you have a drive for something anything is possible. I personally think this sounds possible and fun and UCSF offers a PHD in pharmacogenomics so I oculd go there and get a pharmD/PHD joined degree or maybe ill realize i just want my PHD in college or maybe ill push it out all together it depends. The future holds many possibilities and its said to cut pharmacists short but maybe genetic pharmacy will be the rising star of pharmacists, you know?

I think the poster meant that it might be hard to understand the journal he posted - not that you couldn't pursue any program. The journal articles would probably be confusing to read since you did not have biochemistry, genetics but that doesn't mean that you couldn't fulfill a program.

I'm not sure what schools offer pharmacogenomics programs specifically, but you could get a masters degree (most have research involved and take less time) or a PhD in something similar like genetics. Some professors in my school have degrees in different fields than what they research in. (One professor had a degree in molecular biology and he is in the physiology department now) I don't know what exactly you want to do but there are many different paths you can take. If you plan on getting a bachelor's degree I would suggest taking genetics and biochemistry.

 

[jung1]

It's one area I'm excited about too but it seems to me we gotta be a trail blazer to seize it. Sounds like you could be one. Otherwise it'll be the MDs who run the tests, analyze the info, and prescribe medicines based on that. Then it'll be the pharmacists who tidy everything up as usual. I would like to see pharmacists play a more active role and actually analyze the data and recommend/prescribe themselves.

I'm not too sure if 'genetic pharmacists' will swell in ranks because I see pharmacists just adding it to their armory. A pharmacists who specializes in chemo who is also up to date in the field's pharmacogenomicsdata, imo, would make better courses than a general genetic pharmacist.

Edit - The University of Washington Pharmacy school has programs on personalized medicine. Seems the University does research on that because write about it and have a Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP) Research Facility and are part of the HapMap in the Med School.

 

[ChemistWiz]

thank you everyone for the info. I truly do really wish that i could one day become something good for pharmacy like a researcher but we need to see what happens, I understand that things change in college but I like to think I'll still have that drive, I've always wanted to do research ever since i was a younger child (given that was me wanting to be Dexter from Dexter's lab) So I kind of assume thats what I like I may be wrong though. The problem is I don't know what i want to major in (specific wise) like Purdue has a BS in pharmaceutical sciences, MSU has biochemistry and microbiology, Wayne state has Chemistry/pre-med (which is their pre-pharm track) basically I'm just confused and I'm trying to do my best to make a good decision according to what I like. Either way the original thread was about how we felt about about Pharmacogenetics and I may not know much but I do know that it holds the possibility of allowing our cells to know when dormant virus genes are in there genes and to me that is amazing.

 

[Sparda29]

We learn about it here at Touro NY. It's definitely part of the future of pharmacy. There are quite a few drugs out there that respond only to certain people, thus instead of just giving the person the drug and hoping it works, you do a test looking for a genetic marker prior to the prescription being written.

Based on the results, you decide whether or not to give the drug.

For example, polymorphisms in the alpha adducin gene cause hyperactivity at the sodium pump in the kidneys, leading to increased blood pressure. As you would predict, diuretics are the treatment that work out the best. Also research showed that this particular polymorphism has an 8-fold increased risk of death in African Americans, thus you'd use this to target pharmacotherapy at African Americans.

 

[joetrisman]

I see what you're saying but all things equal, different polymorphisms often have different activity and expression levels that directly affect drug efficacy. For example, there is a SNP that regulates some CYP450 that directly affects Warfarin metabolism. I believe they now use these EZ type kits to routinely test for these alleles to determine the proper dosage. So they're not just looking at gene polymorphisms but polymorphisms across the whole genome. SNPs often lurk in regulatory regions that do directly affect protein levels because it affects say the binding of some inducer protein. The hardest part imo is that finding useful information requires large samples sizes and very carefully controlled studies, studies that need to be repeated to validate findings.

While I'll admit that my knowledge of pharmacogenomics is limited to my experience with cell biology, genetics, and a quite dated pharmacogenomics book, I still do not believe it to be as straight forward as identification of polymorphisms. That was the fallacy of the human genome project: we thought once the genome was sequenced that we would be able to know everything (I'm quite aware that this genomic sequencing was not universal and only provided a map). Unfortunately, regulation of expression occurs on many levels that make sequence information less definitive. A prime example of this is epigenetic differences in twins leading to disease or disabilities in only one twin. I'll grant that identifying genetic sequences and correlating those sequences to specific outcomes can greatly diminish adverse drug reactions in subsets of the population. But in the same note, it is still guess work that will only help to diminish ADRs but not eliminate them due to the unforeseen dynamics of cell biology.

Along with this, I worried about investing large amounts of time into understanding pharmacogenomics as the expenses of the technology, time constraints, and incorporation might prove to be too much a burden for physicians to utilize except for drugs that contain a narrow theraputic window or in cases where the efficacy of the drug is extremely important (ie cancer). If this is the case, prescriptions will stay empirically prescribed for a long time and my time spent learning the field will be mostly moot. Anyone actually taking a class or who knows more than I do, I'd appreciate a chime in on this.

 

[ChemistWiz]

I heard that in a couple of years the ACPE is making it a requirement to have a pharmacogenomics class, how often does it come up on the job?

 

[KingOfDoctors]

Is it like those gene therapy thingy???

 

[desmoulins45179]

thank you everyone for the info. I truly do really wish that i could one day become something good for pharmacy like a researcher but we need to see what happens, I understand that things change in college but I like to think I'll still have that drive, I've always wanted to do research ever since i was a younger child (given that was me wanting to be Dexter from Dexter's lab) So I kind of assume thats what I like I may be wrong though. The problem is I don't know what i want to major in (specific wise) like Purdue has a BS in pharmaceutical sciences, MSU has biochemistry and microbiology, Wayne state has Chemistry/pre-med (which is their pre-pharm track) basically I'm just confused and I'm trying to do my best to make a good decision according to what I like.

So you haven't decided what school you're going to attend for undergrad?
Once you decide, I would take a look at the undergraduate catalog for the school. Look at all the programs they offer, the course descriptions for required courses and how many elective credits is allowed. For the first couple years, most of the classes will be similar (you will need chem, orgo, bio, etc. - same as most pre-pharm pre-reqs).
Maybe after you take first year classes, you can see what you like - if you want to go more towards biology, chemistry, etc. As I said, check each program's elective policy. It seems like you may want to take electives that may be outside of the department you decide on - some programs are more flexible towards electives than others. A lot of courses will be similar for whatever program you choose (biochem is taken by several of majors). Pretty much look into whatever programs you are interested in and look at the course descriptions to see which one interest you the most.

 

[vasoolraja]

Today in a radio news I heard that Walgreens has DNA testing kits waiting for approval. Once approved they will be available for sales in their pharmacy stores. This kit it seems can test if we have any predisposition for certain diseases.
I guess genetics and molecular biology will revolutionize pharmacy!

 

[rxlea]

Today in a radio news I heard that Walgreens has DNA testing kits waiting for approval. Once approved they will be available for sales in their pharmacy stores. This kit it seems can test if we have any predisposition for certain diseases.
I guess genetics and molecular biology will revolutionize pharmacy!

Seems like a nightmare waiting to happen...it isn't good when a patient becomes their own "doctor"

 

[Sparda29]

Seems like a nightmare waiting to happen...it isn't good when a patient becomes their own "doctor"

Nothing to do with that. It's all about personalized medicine.

 

[ChemistWiz]

So you haven't decided what school you're going to attend for undergrad?
Once you decide, I would take a look at the undergraduate catalog for the school. Look at all the programs they offer, the course descriptions for required courses and how many elective credits is allowed. For the first couple years, most of the classes will be similar (you will need chem, orgo, bio, etc. - same as most pre-pharm pre-reqs).
Maybe after you take first year classes, you can see what you like - if you want to go more towards biology, chemistry, etc. As I said, check each program's elective policy. It seems like you may want to take electives that may be outside of the department you decide on - some programs are more flexible towards electives than others. A lot of courses will be similar for whatever program you choose (biochem is taken by several of majors). Pretty much look into whatever programs you are interested in and look at the course descriptions to see which one interest you the most.

thanks for the advice and judging from my indiscretion a six year pharmD program might not be a good idea huh? in any case i appreciate the advice, Ill be sure to keep the forum informed if they so wish.

Today in a radio news I heard that Walgreens has DNA testing kits waiting for approval. Once approved they will be available for sales in their pharmacy stores. This kit it seems can test if we have any predisposition for certain diseases.
I guess genetics and molecular biology will revolutionize pharmacy!

about that Walgreens story; sounds like it's brining out into what we talk about in a way, I think self-diagnosis is good to help you LEARN but as far as actually being right its nice to have a medical personal telling you what to do. Maybe one day a pharmacist will do the project themselves and be able to give out and compound certain drugs for certain people with certain genes. Pharmacy, I think, is still growing just like medicine, and because of that jobs will always remain, we don't know nearly all that much about our bodies what do you think guys and girls?

 

[rxlea]

Nothing to do with that. It's all about personalized medicine.

I understand the premise, but we already have patients googling stuff on the web and coming into the doctor's office thinking they have something they don't. Yes, it is great that the information is out there and it has saved a lot of people (just watch the show Medical Mysteries). But, there will always be those patients that think they know more than the doc (or pharmacist). So, I am just wondering how they are going to address when patients test for their genetic predisposition and then going into the doctor demanding a heart or diabetic med.

EDIT: in other words, what is going to be the counseling point on this kit (if at all)?

 

[desmoulins45179]

thanks for the advice and judging from my indiscretion a six year pharmD program might not be a good idea huh? in any case i appreciate the advice, Ill be sure to keep the forum informed if they so wish.

I six-year pharmD might not be the best for you - you don't have as much flexibility in class choices since you only have 2 years of pre-pharm and pharmacy programs differ in flexibility of electives (I know that at UB you can only take 3 credits outside the school of pharmacy - I don't know about other schools). Sicne it seems like you want to explore other areas, you may want to get a 4 year degree or take 3 years. I know people who went to PhD programs and they used undergrad to take the classes they wanted, work in a lab and figure out what general direction they wanted to go in (meaning which phD program they applied to - you can still change your direction once you get into a program). They changed their mind several times.
However, this makes it harder to get into pharmacy school. You will have to take the PCAT, get pharmacy experience, pharmCAs, etc. However, if you have a good GPA, PCAT, experience and a good interview, you should be fine. You will probably get the "why pharmD instead of PhD since you want research" question or something similar. You can still do it, it would just take a couple years longer (and PCAT, pharmCAS) than a 0-6 program. Just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[ChemistWiz]

Well i appreciate you being the devils advocate it means you show concern and i mean someone has to do research right? otherwise we'll never advance in technology besides having a pharmD give me that advance in that knowledge that a PHD might not offer. but thank you desmoulins for the advice. so how do you personally feel about all of these genetics in pharmacy? you for or against it?

 

[desmoulins45179]

Well i appreciate you being the devils advocate it means you show concern and i mean someone has to do research right? otherwise we'll never advance in technology besides having a pharmD give me that advance in that knowledge that a PHD might not offer. but thank you desmoulins for the advice. so how do you personally feel about all of these genetics in pharmacy? you for or against it?

It seems like you really want to do research. If you are set on getting a pharmD, I would think you would have to get a PhD or Masters degree as well. But the good thing is, there are programs out there and some schools really encourage research. When you look at which pharmacy schools to apply to, I would only apply to large schools that have a PharmD/PhD or PharmD/MS program. I know that the big 10 schools really seem to encourage research in their schools. Don't know about UCSF, haven't gone that far west. I would email/call someone with the school (they will eventually get you to the right person) to talk about what exactly you want to do and see if they are receptive to the idea.
I'm personally all for integrating genetics in pharmacy, however, I think it has a long way to go. Since we know so much about the genome than we did 50 years ago, this changes the way we view certain diseases and treatment. If you are interested in this field (like you are) it is certainly exciting so see where it will go. It not my cup of tea exactly - I wouldn't go into the field, but it is interesting to see what goes on in the future.

 

[desmoulins45179]

Today in a radio news I heard that Walgreens has DNA testing kits waiting for approval. Once approved they will be available for sales in their pharmacy stores. This kit it seems can test if we have any predisposition for certain diseases.
I guess genetics and molecular biology will revolutionize pharmacy!

OMG when I first saw that I thought - take home paternity tests courtesy of walgreens!!!

 

[Passion4Sci]

23andme.com... very interesting stuff.

I'm not sure I'd want to be told if I was likely to be stricken by something like HTT. On one hand, it'd be nice to know so I could not waste any moment(Which I shouldn't do anyway though...) but it would also, IMO, tarnish every day with a sense of impending doom, similar to how I felt on the flight over to Kuwait for the first time.

 

[weetzie00]

Today in a radio news I heard that Walgreens has DNA testing kits waiting for approval. Once approved they will be available for sales in their pharmacy stores. This kit it seems can test if we have any predisposition for certain diseases.
I guess genetics and molecular biology will revolutionize pharmacy!

It's a no!
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/13/business/la-fi-dna-kits-20100513

 

[ChemistWiz]

I say its good that it didn't pass I mean sure its a stepping stone, but people are stupid and if you get uneducated people having a device telling them they might get this disease because its genetically possible, they assume they already do have it and think they will die in a matter of days or go to the doctor.Though that would bring business.....