Georgetown vs. UCI

[anystream]

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I was going to wait to see if I heard from any other schools but I got a flood of rejections today (did they have to come all at once?) so now I am thinking that these are my main two options. I loved them equally. I was completely sold on Georgetown's program, but the in state tuition and location of UC Irvine are strong points. I still don't know much about their program, or what makes UCI special. These schools are tied in the US News rankings (for whatever its worth) but I couldn't find a previous post comparing them. thoughts?

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

This is a very interesting comparison, one that I can't help but comment on. I have to say that I would prefer to live in DC for four years over Irvine, despite the immaculate weather in SoCal. There's just so much more to do in DC then there is in Irvine, though Irvine does have the benefit of straddling LA and San Diego. The student populations will be very different - UCI will have 99% CA residents, while Georgetown will have a pretty eclectic mix of student backgrounds. I think this geographic diversity is actually a really strong positive. However, as you know, Georgetown will cost a good $15k more in tuition. How much is $60k worth to you? Don't forget to consider the cost of the loan itself, as you may have to pay back more than double the original amount borrowed, depending on the terms of the loans. Also, are you Catholic, or religious in any way? (dont actually answer that here). At UCI, you don't have the Jesuit tradition to deal with. In the long run, for me personally, I think the money would take precedence - it's too high a sum to disregard. But I don't think you can go wrong with Georgetown if you love it, especially if they throw some money your way... 😀

 

[BAM!]

Tuition alone might save you 60 grand, but living expensives make it more like 85 grand (according to 2005 numbers with the freshman class used as a model for four years). DC is expensive!

Although, Georgetown has a much better rep and could get you into a competitive residency - derm, rad, surg, etc. Though Irvine has a decent rep.

But Irvine also sends a lot of its students to CA residencies - something to keep in mind.

Both have their advantages. You can't go wrong with either decision. Good luck!

 

[DoctaJay]

I'm from Maryland, but I'm very familiar with the area. The actual medical school is very good, but if I had to choose between UCI and Georgetown, I would go with UCI, for the instate tution. No education is worth the kind of debt you get into by going to Gtown. Georgetown is known as the place where everyone goes to window shop, because you can't actually afford anything there (at least to the black folk, lol). Its the area where alot of senators kids and the senators live. If you are truly into the presitge and scene of D.C., go for it, but if you want to have less fiancial headaches then go with UCI. Just make sure you are in the top of your class where ever you go and you'll get the residency you want. Good luck!

 

[notdeadyet]

Are you familiar with Irvine itself? SoCal has its attractions, but the UCI area is not much to write home about.

That said, I'd stay with UCI if you're looking to stay in the state for residency....

 

[KittycooMD]

Well given that I am submitting first time apps this summer, I'm of the opinion that beggars (me), can't be choosers. But since you are so LUCKY to have these two great choices (congrats!) you deserve as many opinions as you find helpful. I grew up in Los Angeles and had all the "greatness" LA has to offer: shopping, gorgeous weather, proximity of fun things to do, GORGEOUS weather...and now I find myself living in Washington, DC for the past year and a half and I love, love, love it! To me, it's home. There's far less pollution here than in Cali, less traffic, public transit (the public transit system is barely in existance!), cheaper rent (Cali has some of the highest real estate prices in America, even for renters). I would love to stay here for med school rather than go back to Cali, even with all the debt I'd be looking at. How many docs do you know who started out in severe debt who are now happy and comfy? I know quite a few! To me it seems you can't make a wrong choice either way, but this Californian gal votes for Georgetown. If you decline them though, send your acceptance over my way 😉
Again, congrats!

 

[UCdannyLA]

Go to Irvine so I can get into Georgetown :-D

J/k...


Honestly though...I went to UCLA for undergrad and live in Orange County, right by Irvine (my brother goes to UCI)....and all I can say is that, aside from the fact that the weather is always great in so.cal...Irvine is boring as f(@k.


Later!

 

[Caligirl05]

I would go to Irvine....for these reasons:

1) In-state tuition - you would save about 60-90K over the 4 years, and lets face it that is a lot of money. When people talk about doctors paying off all of their loans and leading good lives I am sure that has always been true in the past, but the medical profession is evolving, doctors are getting paid less and who knows what will happen once we get our MDs.

2) Do you want to be in California for residency? Your best chance of being able to do this is by attending UCI. Of the UCs, UCI actually has the highest board scores - this suprised me, but is also true. I have no idea what the board scores are like at Georgetown, I didn't apply there but it is something to consider.

3) I have already lived in other parts of the country than California (Massachusetts and North Carolina). I have experienced my "diverse" student body, and after this experience even though someone above said that you would lack this at UCI I think they are WRONG. Diversity is also about the individual and as long as each person is an individual they are going to have different opinions, different backgrounds, different etc. You get the point.

4) There is plenty to do in both locations. Having many friends who attended Georgetown (my best friend from hs went there), you will get the benefits of living in a major city. There are more clubs and such to go to, if that is your scene. However, they are generally very expensive. In addition, while in school, you most likely won't actually go take advantage of the museums and otehr attractions as much as you might think you will. At least in my own and my friends experiences, the only time you tend to actually go to these attractions are when friends from out of state come visit. It is more important what is around for you to do in your everyday life....for me the fact that I can be exercising outside year round in Cali is a big deal. Besides in Irvine you are an hour from the beach and an hour from the mountains. For someone who loves the outdoors, I couldn't ask for a more ideal location.

Anywho, that is must my personal take. Good luck making the decision. I am sure you will be happy wherever you go.

 

[anystream]

thanks everyone. as much as i'm sure these thread annoy everyone, i really don't know very many future med students, so usually when i talk things over with my friends/family, they have the weirdest responses and are generally completely unhelpful. some of you brought up things that i hadn't thought of before.

if anyone else has anything to say, i would really appreciate it. the main things i am unsure about: i really don't know anything about UCIs program (i REALLY like georgetown's)... likewise, i don't know how students who attend private med schools like georgetown pay off their debts.

to dotdeadyet and doctajay: you both advised me to stay away from a school that you are (according to your mdapps) applying to for 2007. i don't understand...what if you find yourself in my situation next year? 🙂 i just thought that was funny.

 

[Vizsla]

to dotdeadyet and doctajay: you both advised me to stay away from a school that you are (according to your mdapps) applying to for 2007. i don't understand...what if you find yourself in my situation next year? 🙂 i just thought that was funny.

notice how they either mentioned in-state tuition or in-state residencies? If you were that impressed by georgetown that you would give up saving thousands of dollars at a Cali school and run the risk of decreasing ur chances of securing a Cali residency, then go for it

 

[P-Bone]

I've been accepted to USC and to Georgetown, so i figure i could give you a couple of my thoughts and maybe read up on what others have to say about LA vs. WaDC. Plus, i'm currently living in DC. OK, enough justification, here are my thoughts.

Georgetown: i've been doing research at the NIH in DC for 2 yrs. Gtown doesn't have much research, but you could easily find time and a lab to do research at the NIH if you wanted. i've been hanging out with Gtown students for the past couple months, and they are good people. However, there is definitely competition among the class b/c everything is graded on a curve for the first 2yrs. Plus, they have a Masters program at Gtown where half the first year med school classes are with the masters students, and the masters program students are competing on the same curve as the med students. this, combined with the fact that the top 10% or so of the masters students get gimme interviews at G-town makes for a competitive atmosphere. its really too bad. also, G-town is one of the only schools that requires public service, and actually slots time for it--not too much--this can be a good or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it. there's less time for research/fun/etc, but it also forces you to see another side of medicine (b/c the public service is, obviously, medically related). In addition, if you have been accepted to Gtown then you can ask them for a residency list from last year. if you look at the number of orthopods, you will be amazed. it is 19 orthopaedic surgeons from last year alone. i never saw a school with more. this may be a fluke, but . . .

USC: don't know nearly as much about USC, and i couldn't make the Accepted Student Invite last friday, but here are my thoughts. if anyone wants to email me or reply to this that would be great. i always heard USC was in a bad part of town, but the medical campus seemed like it was in a fine part of town--it didn't bother me at all. not sure how much research they do, but probably comparable to Gtown minus the NIH. obviously the weather is good in LA. USC is private, so costs will be about the same. the one thing that draws me to LA is simply the fact that i'm ready to leave DC. i'm from Seattle, and i moved out to DC 2 yrs ago after undergrad. i'm tired of being away from family and friends . . . USC is still a 2 hr flight, but it just seems so much closer than DC . . . basically, i probably won't make up my mind until May 14th at around 5 min to midnight, but these are my thoughts. hope it helps. 🙂

 

[notdeadyet]

Besides in Irvine you are an hour from the beach and an hour from the mountains. For someone who loves the outdoors, I couldn't ask for a more ideal location.

Ummm... have you been to Irvine, Caligirl? It's about a 10-15 minute drive from the beach. And if you're looking to head to the mountains to ski, you're about two hours away.

No biggie. I just don't want anyone reading this to think Irvine's actually Riverside...

 

[notdeadyet]

to dotdeadyet and doctajay: you both advised me to stay away from a school that you are (according to your mdapps) applying to for 2007. i don't understand...what if you find yourself in my situation next year? 🙂 i just thought that was funny.

Not sure what you're reading. I actually recommended UCI if you're looking for instate residency. I'm applying to UCI but not Georgetown because my wife hate's DC.

As a somewhat aside, one thing folks not that familiar with southern california have a bad habit of doing is sort of lumping the region all together. This is a mistake. Irvine is _nothing_ like LA. For some, this is a plus (much less crime, very little polution, not far from a great beach) for others it's a minus (very little diversity [unless you consider white and Asian diversity], little heart art/culture, and MUCH more car oriented than LA).

Good luck with your decision, but be sure to recognize the difference between Irvine and LA. Irvine epitomizes the southern california bedroom community suburb. If that's you're tea, you're styling.

 

[Caligirl05]

notdeadyet.....sorry, about getting the times wrong. My aunt and uncle live in Irvine I don't, so I was guessing on the times. Either way my point still stands.

As for the differences between LA and Irvine, clearly they aren't the same, but stop trying to knock diversity. People are diverse - any medical student class will therefore also be diverse. In addition, the UCs will have students like me who went out of state for their undergrad education and students who have studied abroad and students who grew up in another part of Cali and then moved to Cali for hs, etc. Sorry, I don't mean to be coming across as harsh, this is just one of my a pet peeves when people bring up diversity. Also, Asians themselves aren't all the same even though we lump them into one category in the same way that whites aren't all the same. Plus, UCI has the Prime LC program so that attracts a different type of student.

Anyways, a few notes about the program at UCI. I really like the fact that they have "selectives", basically these are small classes that you take concurrently with the sciences during the first two years - I am not sure exactly what the structure is, but the course offerings sound really neat and while reading about them I was thinking to myself that I wished I could take all of them. Here is the link to the page http://www.ucihs.uci.edu/com/meded/elective/selectiveindex.html . From that page you should be able to look at the general structure of the classes in more depth.

 

[Vizsla]

Plus, they have a Masters program at Gtown where half the first year med school classes are with the masters students, and the masters program students are competing on the same curve as the med students. this, combined with the fact that the top 10% or so of the masters students get gimme interviews at G-town makes for a competitive atmosphere. its really too bad.

the Special Masters students at gtown are graded on the first year's curve but do NOT compete with them for Honors, High pass... And the fact that the top masters students will end up getting interview at gtown has nothing to do with the competitive atmopshere among the first years. In fact, in my opinion the friendliest first year students were previous Masters students who were accepted the year before. The only drawback for first year gtown students is that for most of their classes there will be an extra 160 or so students, plus another 20 or so GEMS students in a few classes...

also, G-town is one of the only schools that requires public service, and actually slots time for it--not too much--this can be a good or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it. there's less time for research/fun/etc, but it also forces you to see another side of medicine (b/c the public service is, obviously, medically related).

How is public service EVER a bad thing?? public service isnt "another" side of medicine or merely "related"...it is the foundation of medicine. If you want more time for research, do a PhD

 

[Medikit]

I can't think of a single reason I'd pick Georgetown over UCI. I'd imagine most Californians would feel the same. UCI and Georgetown are pretty close to eachother in terms of rank, UCI gives you a better shot at staying in California for residency, Irvine has nicer weather, Irvine has better food, Irvine has MUCH lower crime. Do not pick a school based on the program it offers. On paper things might look nice but you really can't judge until you're in it and you're experiencing it. Any other particular reason why you like Georgetown so much? I know that the undergrad has name recognition but the same isn't true for the medical school. In fact IMHO George Washington actually has a better hospital and medical school.

 

[DoctaJay]

thanks everyone. as much as i'm sure these thread annoy everyone, i really don't know very many future med students, so usually when i talk things over with my friends/family, they have the weirdest responses and are generally completely unhelpful. some of you brought up things that i hadn't thought of before.

if anyone else has anything to say, i would really appreciate it. the main things i am unsure about: i really don't know anything about UCIs program (i REALLY like georgetown's)... likewise, i don't know how students who attend private med schools like georgetown pay off their debts.

to dotdeadyet and doctajay: you both advised me to stay away from a school that you are (according to your mdapps) applying to for 2007. i don't understand...what if you find yourself in my situation next year? 🙂 i just thought that was funny.

Lol, hey anystream..I know it looks wierd, but our situations are different. I"m from Maryland, so I want to stay in the area, meaning that I'll apply to all schools in that area. I know I wouldn't HATE going to Gtown, but like I said, if I had a choice between instate tution and Gtown, I would choose the instate. You have that choice, so thats why I was advising you to go for the instate deal. If I had to choose between a cheaper school and Gtown, I'd probably go with the cheaper school, but it can't hurt to apply there...they might give me money.

 

[zer0el]

I'm an M2 at USC, and Medikit sums up a lot of what you need to know about choosing a med school: it's all about location + support network if you're not considering a top 10 med school. The bars in Georgetown might seem appealing during M1, but even that will get old by M2 and M3. I cannot see any advantage whatsoever that Georgetown has over UCI, unless you just really like crappy weather.

Green, wide open spaces, sunshine 95% of the time, proximity to LA and SD, access to Tustin Marketplace, Spectrum, and South Coast (yeah, it's not Hollywood but they have everything you really need), connections within Cali, and a cheaper tuition...hmm, doesn't seem like such a difficult choice to me.

 

[ABC321]

Georgetown...hands down if you want a competitive residency

 

[Vizsla]

In fact IMHO George Washington actually has a better hospital and medical school.

😀

 

[tacrum43]

In fact IMHO George Washington actually has a better hospital and medical school.

Ssssssssssssshhhhhhh! No it doesn't! GW is terrible. Everybody withdraw from there immediately.




...Sorry, had to give it a shot.

 

[notdeadyet]

As for the differences between LA and Irvine, clearly they aren't the same, but stop trying to knock diversity. People are diverse - any medical student class will therefore also be diverse.

Who's knocking diversity? I'm knocking LACK of diversity.

the UCs will have students like me who went out of state for their undergrad education and students who have studied abroad and students who grew up in another part of Cali and then moved to Cali for hs, etc.

Ah. Technically, you can take a group of 30 white upper middle class suburban kids and call them diverse because some studied abroad, some visited west of the Mississippi, etc. For some of us, that's not really enough. I'm a UC grad, by the way.

Also, Asians themselves aren't all the same even though we lump them into one category in the same way that whites aren't all the same.

Ouch. I actually don't lump them all into one category except on purpose. I use the term Asian here to refer to peoples from.... Asia. The Irvine area has a nice representation of East and Southeast Asians from many countries.

Plus, UCI has the Prime LC program so that attracts a different type of student.

PRIME LC is a great program. It's been so successful at UCI that they're rolling out similar programs at the other UCs. I'm a big fan. My complaint about the lack of diversity was about Irvine, not UCI (though UCI is still has small URM numbers for a UC). The town of Irvine is about 91% white/Asian, with a MUCH smaller Latino influence than LA or even much of Orange County.

The point of the email was to help dispell the myth that Irvine is in any way like LA, which some folks seem to think. Irvine is a nice upper middle class bedroom planned & gated community suburb. If that rocks your boat, you'll love it.

 

[beebs]

I want to remind you guys that only the 1st 2 years are in Irvine. It's a great place if you're into outdoors-y stuff, not as much if you like to go to plays and cultural stuff like that (but really, you're not going to have that much time to do stuff like that anyway). And yes, Irvine isn't all that diverse.

BUT, the medical center is in Orange, which is bordered by some of the most diverse areas you can find. Santa Ana, Westminster, South LA isn't too far to the north. It's no Bronx NY, but the demographics you'll see will be enough to make you want to learn 3 more foreign languages.

Who's knocking diversity? I'm knocking LACK of diversity.

Ah. Technically, you can take a group of 30 white upper middle class suburban kids and call them diverse because some studied abroad, some visited west of the Mississippi, etc. For some of us, that's not really enough. I'm a UC grad, by the way.

Ouch. I actually don't lump them all into one category except on purpose. I use the term Asian here to refer to peoples from.... Asia. The Irvine area has a nice representation of East and Southeast Asians from many countries.
PRIME LC is a great program. It's been so successful at UCI that they're rolling out similar programs at the other UCs. I'm a big fan. My complaint about the lack of diversity was about Irvine, not UCI (though UCI is still has small URM numbers for a UC). The town of Irvine is about 91% white/Asian, with a MUCH smaller Latino influence than LA or even much of Orange County.

The point of the email was to help dispell the myth that Irvine is in any way like LA, which some folks seem to think. Irvine is a nice upper middle class bedroom planned & gated community suburb. If that rocks your boat, you'll love it.

 

[Just Applied]

In fact IMHO George Washington actually has a better hospital and medical school.

The people at GW may be a bit more relaxed, but as far as being a better medical school is an objective matter. By board scores alone, Georgetown has a leg up. GW's mean for step 1 is 215 (a point below the national mean) whereas the current third year's mean a Georgetown is 226. Take it for what its worth.

P.S. someone referenced the GW mean in the Allo forum. I'm just to lazy to look for it.

 

[Vizsla]

The people at GW may be a bit more relaxed, but as far as being a better medical school is an objective matter. By board scores alone, Georgetown has a leg up. GW's mean for step 1 is 215 (a point below the national mean) whereas the current third year's mean a Georgetown is 226. Take it for what its worth.

P.S. someone referenced the GW mean in the Allo forum. I'm just to lazy to look for it.

Yes we've already agreed on this, GW sucks...everyone withdraw your apps from there