get this . . .

[Arctic Char]

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so i just had an introductory meeting about my international clerkship next year in Eldoret, Kenya. Towards the end of the meeting my friend (4 of us are going) asks our Kenya liaison "is there anything that we should bring?"

"well" she says "bring a couple boxes of gloves. if you want to do sutures, you need to bring your own suturing kit(s). you will definitely need to bring supplies to do your own LP's and lines, and if you like to use mesh for hernia repairs, you will need to bring your own." 😱

my friends asks "wait, you mean we're doing our own LP's, lines and minor surgeries??"

her reply: "you will be in very very rural kenya . . . you will do what you think needs to be done. there is no one else to do it."

i repeat: 😱

this is going to ROCK!

 

[docbiohazard]

Wow... may sound wierd as a future pathologist, but that does sound like fun - or if nothing else, a great life experience. You can find suture in bulk on eBay. I bought a bunch of expired suture to practice with back in the day, didn't use very much of it - not sure why it "expires"...

Another thing you might want to think about taking would be HIV-exposure prophylaxis in case you stick yourself ... just trying to think ahead. As well as any pre-trip vaccines or other meds you might need.

Have fun.
BH

 

[Arctic Char]

Wow... may sound wierd as a future pathologist, but that does sound like fun - or if nothing else, a great life experience. You can find suture in bulk on eBay. I bought a bunch of expired suture to practice with back in the day, didn't use very much of it - not sure why it "expires"...

Another thing you might want to think about taking would be HIV-exposure prophylaxis in case you stick yourself ... just trying to think ahead. As well as any pre-trip vaccines or other meds you might need.

Have fun.
BH

sure, we have a barrage of shots we have to get. about the HIV-exposure prophylaxis . . . i thought that was in case i stick someone else? (i.e. condoms)

ok . . . classless joke, but i couldn't resist

 

[Arctic Char]

thanks for the tip about eBay

 

[Matte Kudesai]

so i just had an introductory meeting about my international clerkship next year in Eldoret, Kenya. Towards the end of the meeting my friend (4 of us are going) asks our Kenya liaison "is there anything that we should bring?"

"well" she says "bring a couple boxes of gloves. if you want to do sutures, you need to bring your own suturing kit(s). you will definitely need to bring supplies to do your own LP's and lines, and if you like to use mesh for hernia repairs, you will need to bring your own." 😱

my friends asks "wait, you mean we're doing our own LP's, lines and minor surgeries??"

her reply: "you will be in very very rural kenya . . . you will do what you think needs to be done. there is no one else to do it."

i repeat: 😱

this is going to ROCK!

This sounds awesome.... I used this book and highly recommend it

http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-N...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210787485&sr=8-1

 

[Arctic Char]

This sounds awesome.... I used this book and highly recommend it

http://www.amazon.com/Where-There-N...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210787485&sr=8-1

thanks!

 

[Cloaca]

This experience does sound great but I caution you against being eager-beaver med students and using your patients as guinea pigs to perform procedures you are not adequately trained to do. Just because they are poor and have little access to medical care does not mean med students get to do hernia repairs. Sorry to sound like a wet blanket but I have seen some pretty scary things and the consequences.

 

[Arctic Char]

This experience does sound great but I caution you against being eager-beaver med students and using your patients as guinea pigs to perform procedures you are not adequately trained to do. Just because they are poor and have little access to medical care does not mean med students get to do hernia repairs. Sorry to sound like a wet blanket but I have seen some pretty scary things and the consequences.

i absolutely could not agree with you more; and i believe this would hold for my faculty's belief systems as well. we will not do anything unless we are adequately prepared. i can't say adequately "trained" because, well, who is the first time they do a procedure, right? when its your first time doing something, all you can be is prepared. as i'm sure you know, the learning curve for procedures goes like this: watch one, do one, teach one. this is not a scenario of exploitation any more than first-timers in the US (except perhaps for the amount of supervision. on this issue, i am not completely certain of what to expect while in kenya).

anyway, i appreciate your comment . . . wish us luck 😉

 

[Matte Kudesai]

i absolutely could not agree with you more; and i believe this would hold for my faculty's belief systems as well. we will not do anything unless we are adequately prepared. i can't say adequately "trained" because, well, who is the first time they do a procedure, right? when its your first time doing something, all you can be is prepared. as i'm sure you know, the learning curve for procedures goes like this: watch one, do one, teach one. this is not a scenario of exploitation any more than first-timers in the US (except perhaps for the amount of supervision. on this issue, i am not completely certain of what to expect while in kenya).

anyway, i appreciate your comment . . . wish us luck 😉

I am sure that no one will be using patients as Guinea pigs.

This is the unfortunate reality in many parts of the world.
liability and specialization are a fantasy, minimal health care is unavailable... a US trained medical student can be invaluable.

In many instances the help you can give and provide will be the only treatment people may have...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I am sure that no one will be using patients as Guinea pigs.

This is the unfortunate reality in many parts of the world.
liability and specialization are a fantasy, minimal health care is unavailable... a US trained medical student can be invaluable.

In many instances the help you can give and provide will be the only treatment people may have...

Sorry buddy but I really don't buy that. Didn't go to med school in the U.S myself but I think it is overreaching just a tad to insinuate that a med student from wherever is anyway qualified to do an unsupervised hernia op. Honestly a theatre nurse would probably do better.
Be very careful not to justify unethical actions by creating artificial pressures to perform (esp. in situations where there is minimal regulation of activities). Work to the limits of your knowledge and training and then scream for help and keep on screaming till it comes.
To do otherwise is to invite recklessness into the way you personally practice medicine.
Peace.

 

[Matte Kudesai]

Sorry buddy but I really don't buy that. Didn't go to med school in the U.S myself but I think it is overreaching just a tad to insinuate that a med student from wherever is anyway qualified to do an unsupervised hernia op. Honestly a theatre nurse would probably do better.
Be very careful not to justify unethical actions by creating artificial pressures to perform (esp. in situations where there is minimal regulation of activities). Work to the limits of your knowledge and training and then scream for help and keep on screaming till it comes.
To do otherwise is to invite recklessness into the way you personally practice medicine.
Peace.

You need a couple more shots of Jack dude.....

Was not attempting to suggest any of those things. Comparing a group of medical students going on a SUPERVISED trip to potential Mengele's is a bit excessive as well.
I was hoping that the psychotic hernia repair/open heart surgery types will be screened through this process.
I have been on a number of these trips... I have NEVER seen or heard of a team allowing students to do the things that are suggested by you in an unsupervised way.

The level of supervision is less than what you would experience in a US hospital.

I was pointing out merely that where there is no healthcare at all... within the overarching principle of DO NO HARM... those who have some training may be able to alleviate suffering and promote a better quality of life.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

You need a couple more shots of Jack dude.....

Was not attempting to suggest any of those things. Comparing a group of medical students going on a SUPERVISED trip to potential Mengele's is a bit excessive as well.
I was hoping that the psychotic hernia repair/open heart surgery types will be screened through this process.
I have been on a number of these trips... I have NEVER seen or heard of a team allowing students to do the things that are suggested by you in an unsupervised way.

The level of supervision is less than what you would experience in a US hospital.

I was pointing out merely that where there is no healthcare at all... within the overarching principle of DO NO HARM... those who have some training may be able to alleviate suffering and promote a better quality of life.

Dude....chill out on the defensiveness. There was nothing suggested by me, just by this thread. Have another read through and you will see I was just responding to the 'maverick' tone of the thread in general and the wording of your posting in particular.

But you've cleared it up nicely. So be cool.😎