Getting a DO and do Orthopedic Surgery?

[hadokenny]

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Is it harder for DOs to get into Orthopedic surgery? I am really interested in Ortho Surgery. I dont really care whether I get an MD or DO, as long as I am doing something I enjoy. Will having a DO put me at a disadvantage when applying for orthopedic surgery programs? Sorry if this is a stupid question. I am a noob...

 

[ssingh0]

go to do school's that your interested in, look at their match lists, see how few are ortho's, then go look at low-tier US MD school match lists, and see that there are more, as with any speciality generally

 

[Nate]

Yes, having a DO will be a disadvantage for going into Orthopedic Surgery. There are DO programs but some are crappy leaving few spots for many applicants in a popular field; from what I hear, and MD programs for this specialty are not very receptive of DO students. Sorry, but for this one you are better off in an MD school. That's not to say it is impossible but for this case it is a disadvantage. However, if DO is the way for you, you can work hard and make it for sure but it will be tough battle. Good luck

 

[BklynWill]

PCOM has a pretty good ortho program.

 

[1hotaartichoke]

MERIN, the research institute affiliated with Touro-NV, is working on opening up an ortho surg residency run by Dr. Corvetti (top notch doc known all over NV for his great work). i believe the residency is supposed to be an 'internal' one, giving TUNV students first preference.

 

[Bull's eye]

Yes, having a DO will be a disadvantage for going into Orthopedic Surgery. There are DO programs but some are crappy leaving few spots for many applicants in a popular field; from what I hear, and MD programs for this specialty are not very receptive of DO students. Sorry, but for this one you are better off in an MD school. That's not to say it is impossible but for this case it is a disadvantage. However, if DO is the way for you, you can work hard and make it for sure but it will be tough battle. Good luck

Tell me what makes a residency crappy? Is the inability to operate more than 30 cases a month, until you are a chief, while working 80 hour plus weeks a crappy residency? Because I just described a TON of MD University programs. This includes the one that my "crappy" residency is affiliated with.
The truth of the matter is volume and pathology are the two most important factors in an ortho residency. Volume is NEVER an issue at any DO program I have seen, every DO program my friends are in, and every DO program that I have personally rotated at. That includes every DO program in Ohio, Missouri, Michigan, and Oklahoma. The pathology in ortho comes from trauma and developmental pediatric disorders and ortho onc. Trauma is never an issue at DO programs because most go to big trauma centers for their rotation. Peds is not an issue because we rotate at a childrens hospital. Onc is problem at most places because there just aren't a lot of onc guys, however my program offers an elective to do up to 4 months doing whatever you want, unlike the big MD places dowtown. Don't get me wrong we all get along real well, and we see the strengths of each others programs, but it really pisses me off when people who don't know think they know. Truth is there are a lot of crappy programs and just cause it says "MD" doesn't make it good. So to the original poster, you will have plenty of opportunities to be an orthopedic surgeon if you decide to go DO, and if you are as competitive as your MD counterparts, then you will have a great shot at getting a DO residency. Oh and don't mistake my last sentance into thinking you can't get an MD residency, but the truth is nearly all the applicants that have a great shot at getting the MD spot get matched in the DO match nearly one month earlier. Because when it gets right down to it, a spot is a spot is a spot, and you will maximize your opportunities. Cause Internal medicine sucks.

 

[Nate]

I said "some are crappy" and if you do not agree on that then you are sheltered.
Well, my opinion was formed from speaking with others so I do not have direct experience with it. I considered Ortho for a minute, mainly for spinal, and asked around... However, what I was told is the definition of a "bad" residency is one where you have one or two attendings and poor structure; this is relevant at certain DO programs... That is not nearly as good as having a bunch of attendings hazing you and passing down knowledge and experience, sounded simple enough to me. I agree about the best candidates getting picked off in the DO match though, and that making it appear as though MD residencies are less attainable. I think that is true for many specialties and I think that is one of the reasons a joint-match is needed. But anyway, I am glad someone with experience gave their opinion.

 

[Bull's eye]

I said "some are crappy" and if you do not agree on that then you are sheltered.
Well, my opinion was formed from speaking with others so I do not have direct experience with it. I considered Ortho for a minute, mainly for spinal, and asked around... However, what I was told is the definition of a "bad" residency is one where you have one or two attendings and poor structure; this is relevant at certain DO programs... That is not nearly as good as having a bunch of attendings hazing you and passing down knowledge and experience, sounded simple enough to me. I agree about the best candidates getting picked off in the DO match though, and that making it appear as though MD residencies are less attainable. I think that is true for many specialties and I think that is one of the reasons a joint-match is needed. But anyway, I am glad someone with experience gave their opinion.

This is what I hate about forums. I re-read my post and it seemed like I was attacking you. That was not the intent. It was more a general information post. And like I said in my post there are crappy programs on both sides of the fence. As for being called sheltered from an MS-I, when I have been there and done that and made it.... after re-reading my post I probably deserved that.

 

[Zerosixjt]

Because when it gets right down to it, a spot is a spot is a spot, and you will maximize your opportunities. Cause Internal medicine sucks.

Hey!!! Watch that "Internal Medicine Sucks" crap. Just 'cause some of us would rather cure than cut doesn't make us less worthy.

 

[Nate]

This is what I hate about forums. I re-read my post and it seemed like I was attacking you. That was not the intent. It was more a general information post. And like I said in my post there are crappy programs on both sides of the fence. As for being called sheltered from an MS-I, when I have been there and done that and made it.... after re-reading my post I probably deserved that.

Again, I said “if you do not agree on that then you are sheltered” and I do not believe anyone could seriously not agree so it was just for emphasis.
Hey, I am glad you shared your experience and I do not feel attacked so it's all good 🙂
I am actually glad to hear there are more than a few good DO Ortho programs, and when you are senior resident or attending and I am potentially applying don’t hate on me!

 

[dobonedoc]

There are DO programs but some are crappy leaving few spots for many applicants in a popular field; . . . Sorry, but for this one you are better off in an MD school.

Nate, gotta call you out on this, as did Gunslinger. I fear you speak of what you just don't know. Perhaps you could look at average OITE scores to guage the strength of a program. I disagree with this, as you could be very book smart, and yet operate as though you have oven mits on your hands. As for my program, strong cutting skills are coupled with strong OITE scores.

Perhaps you could consider volume. As for the DO programs I've seen, and compared to the MD places I've seen - Volume is not an issue. I've operated much more as a 1st and 2nd year resident in my DO program than people who are PGY2,3,&4's in other, large MD settings.

I don't know how to compare programs. I do know that it is not safe to lump DO programs vs MD programs. As for handing down knowledge from attendings to residents - this can happen, but I've seen times when it does not. The hardest times I've had have been one-on-one with an attending in a small program setting. No place to hide if you are unprepared if you don't have a chief, a senior, and 3 other juniors to blend in with.

 

[Hardbody]

Is it harder for DOs to get into Orthopedic surgery? I am really interested in Ortho Surgery. I dont really care whether I get an MD or DO, as long as I am doing something I enjoy. Will having a DO put me at a disadvantage when applying for orthopedic surgery programs? Sorry if this is a stupid question. I am a noob...

Not as much of a disadvantage as you may origionally believe. If you go onto www.aacom.org there is a brochure and on page 54 it lists the breakdown of a survey taken as to where D.O.'s are doing their residencies. So I will tell you that there may be some fuzzy math going on here. On the website it shows approximately 9.3% of all AOA residents are Ortho residents (about 240), but your chances of landing an ACGME residency are awful at around 0.4% (about 24 overall, this is considering the fact that 2/3's of D.O.'s end up doing ACGME residency). These numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, but if you add up the total Ortho residents in the survey and divide by the total number of residents you end up around 3.2% (which is also not 100% accurate since every residency takes a different number of years). Lets just say it is 3.2% for the sake of this discussion, that is compared to 4-5% of all M.D.'s in practice that are orthopods.

IMH-premed-O, I don't think that you should go apply to medical school with the intention on becoming an orthopod only. What happens if you get in and do not have the grades for it (it is probably the most competitive field)? Nor do I think that you should avoid going to an Osteopathic school simply because you think that you have a better shot at becoming an orthopod at an allo school. Good luck and I hope you find my post useful.

 

[njdevil]

Ortho is certainly a rather competitive specialty allopathic or osteopathic background. The spots are very sought after and programs will use this for there advantage.

For example, at UMDNJ-SOM, when I was an intern they guarenteed two people spots and took four interns to compete for the other two spots. At Jefferson (Rothman Institute), a very prestigious national program, they took an MD as a researcher for year in hopes that he could earn a spot after that year. At the same rate they took a DO out of medschool. These are just two stories about the competitiveness of the field. I think applying a rule to either school is not fair. Its hard no matter who you are.

Not as much of a disadvantage as you may origionally believe. If you go onto www.aacom.org there is a brochure and on page 54 it lists the breakdown of a survey taken as to where D.O.'s are doing their residencies. So I will tell you that there may be some fuzzy math going on here. On the website it shows approximately 9.3% of all AOA residents are Ortho residents (about 240), but your chances of landing an ACGME residency are awful at around 0.4% (about 24 overall, this is considering the fact that 2/3's of D.O.'s end up doing ACGME residency). These numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, but if you add up the total Ortho residents in the survey and divide by the total number of residents you end up around 3.2% (which is also not 100% accurate since every residency takes a different number of years). Lets just say it is 3.2% for the sake of this discussion, that is compared to 4-5% of all M.D.'s in practice that are orthopods.

IMH-premed-O, I don't think that you should go apply to medical school with the intention on becoming an orthopod only. What happens if you get in and do not have the grades for it (it is probably the most competitive field)? Nor do I think that you should avoid going to an Osteopathic school simply because you think that you have a better shot at becoming an orthopod at an allo school. Good luck and I hope you find my post useful.

 

[Nate]

I stand corrected and I am glad to be, this is good news.

 

[Dr. MAXY]

Ortho is certainly a rather competitive specialty allopathic or osteopathic background. The spots are very sought after and programs will use this for there advantage.

For example, at UMDNJ-SOM, when I was an intern they guarenteed two people spots and took four interns to compete for the other two spots. At Jefferson (Rothman Institute), a very prestigious national program, they took an MD as a researcher for year in hopes that he could earn a spot after that year. At the same rate they took a DO out of medschool. These are just two stories about the competitiveness of the field. I think applying a rule to either school is not fair. Its hard no matter who you are.

Well, most DO ortho programs are not doing that any longer. Where they take 15 people to compete for 5 spots. As a matter of fact, out of the 26 or so AOA progarms, 21 programs have linked intern-residency spots. As to the competitiveness of ortho that is absolutely right. A guy I know had to get his Ph.D position from this program before he was admitted to the ortho program.

 

[njdevil]

yes, two were linked and two were up for four interns to compete for.

Well, most DO ortho programs are not doing that any longer. Where they take 15 people to compete for 5 spots. As a matter of fact, out of the 26 or so AOA progarms, 21 programs have linked intern-residency spots. As to the competitiveness of ortho that is absolutely right. A guy I know had to get his Ph.D position from this program before he was admitted to the ortho program.

 

[Dr. MAXY]

yes, two were linked and two were up for four interns to compete for.

Hate that. That really sucks.