Getting a master's with intention of getting into a PhD program

[PostBaccPsych]

Hi everyone,
I've been reading the forums for a while now and found them to be really useful. I just had a question that seems to have some sort of controversy among some members: getting a MA/MS first in order to get into a PhD/PsyD program.

Why is going the MS route first generally not recommended? Or is it just that it does not majorly increase your chances of getting into a doctoral program?

My personal reasons for wanting to go this route are because I graduated last semester and do not currently have research experience (but am in the process of trying to find some)
and my Cum GPA in undergrad was less than stellar (3.02). I'd like to enter a MS program in general/experimental psych to show doctorate programs that I have the ability to do excellent work at the graduate level.

My question is whether or not this is the best way to go given my circumstances (of course according to your own personal opinions) and would it possibly increase my chances of being admitted into a good doctorate program?

Oh- and I haven't taken the GRE yet.... I'm about to start studying/preparing this coming week.

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[Rapunzel]

Your reasons and approach sound good because you will be getting research experience, and if you do well it could improve your chances. Especially if you can get your master's at a school where you would like to continue for your doctorate program.

I'm afraid that my MS in Mental Health Counseling, where research was not emphasized at all and there is no thesis will actually hurt me. But it is different circumstances. Good luck!

 

[PostBaccPsych]

Thanks Rapunzel! So I guess the key to this, is making sure you get the research to become competitive...

Your reasons and approach sound good because you will be getting research experience, and if you do well it could improve your chances. Especially if you can get your master's at a school where you would like to continue for your doctorate program.

I'm afraid that my MS in Mental Health Counseling, where research was not emphasized at all and there is no thesis will actually hurt me. But it is different circumstances. Good luck!

 

[erg923]

It can be helpful, in certain cases. Generally, it is not recommended because it increases the length of time of grad training, since not all courses will transfer into the Psy.d. Ph.D program. You will end up doing alot of repetition in terms of course work. Second, it will cost more money. Masters programs are usually not supported, so you will spend alot of money on tuition and living expenses during that 2 years span that you might not have spent had you attended a supported Ph.D. program. Third, besides the masters thesis, it is not necessarily a rich source of resesrch experience.......something Ph.D programs have to see in their applicants.

It is extremely helpful if your undergrad GPA is not stellar (as in your case). Its a great opportunity to increase your GPA, buy you more time in increasing GRE scores, and will provide some good real world experience. The experience of getting a masters itself it not necessarily all that beneficial to "getting in" to doctoral level programs, since they will teach you all those clinical skills in your doctoral program anyway. It really serves well if your GPA was low in undergrad though. It a great learning experience and provides a good real world exposure to the field.

 

[myelin]

It can be helpful, in certain cases. Generally, it is not recommended because it increases the length of time of grad training, since not all courses will transfer into the Psy.d. Ph.D program. You will end up doing alot of repetition in terms of course work. Second, it will cost more money. Masters programs are usually not supported, so you will spend alot of money on tuition and living expenses during that 2 years span that you might not have spent had you attended a supported Ph.D. program. Third, besides the masters thesis, it is not necessarily a rich source of resesrch experience.......something Ph.D programs have to see in their applicants.

It is extremely helpful if your undergrad GPA is not stellar (as in your case). Its a great opportunity to increase your GPA, buy you more time in increasing GRE scores, and will provide some good real world experience. The experience of getting a masters itself it not necessarily all that beneficial to "getting in" to doctoral level programs, since they will teach you all those clinical skills in your doctoral program anyway. It really serves well if your GPA was low in undergrad though. It a great learning experience and provides a good real world exposure to the field.

The research experience received in a MA/MS program is largely up to the student. Besides my thesis, I'll have 5 publications (2 first author) by the time I leave as well as training in the use of a BioPac and E-prime. But, these experiences were definately not mandatory.

To the OP - the MA/MS to PhD route sounds like a great option for you. It will give you the chance to get your GPA up, get research experience, and take the GRE. You'll need to kick butt in the program to counter balance the 3.0. Have you considered a MA in clinical psychology?

The MA to PhD is the route I'm taking due to a low undergraduate GPA. I'm really glad that I went this route, although it will end up costing me about $30k extra. I feel like the transition to a PhD program will be much easier.

 

[PostBaccPsych]

The research experience received in a MA/MS program is largely up to the student. Besides my thesis, I'll have 5 publications (2 first author) by the time I leave as well as training in the use of a BioPac as well as E-prime. But, these experiences were definately not mandatory.

To the OP - the MA/MS to PhD route sounds like a great option for you. It will give you the chance to get your GPA up, get research experience, and take the GRE. You'll need to kick butt in the program to counter balance the 3.0. Have you considered a MA in clinical psychology?

The MA to PhD is the route I'm taking due to a low undergraduate GPA. I'm really glad that I went this route, although it will end up costing me about $30k extra. I feel like the transition to a PhD program will be much easier.

I haven't really considered getting an MA in clinical psychology because I thought those were usually terminal... the program I'm considering is in my hometown, so that'll cut down a bit on cost and it states that their General/Experimental Masters is meant to prepare those who want to go on for a PhD or PsyD. But if you can point me in the direction of some programs that'd be great- I'm still looking into others.

And I'm definitely going to be doing as much as possible while I'm earning my Masters... I did enough messing around in undergrad

Thanks so much everyone...

 

[myelin]

I haven't really considered getting an MA in clinical psychology because I thought those were usually terminal... the program I'm considering is in my hometown, so that'll cut down a bit on cost and it states that their General/Experimental Masters is meant to prepare those who want to go on for a PhD or PsyD. But if you can point me in the direction of some programs that'd be great- I'm still looking into others.

And I'm definitely going to be doing as much as possible while I'm earning my Masters... I did enough messing around in undergrad

Thanks so much everyone...

The clinical psychology MA program that I'm in is terminal, but many students go on to PhD programs. I believe the terminal distinction is made so that students understand that the program doesn't lead to a higher degree such as a PhD. But it most certainly doesn't mean that you can't pursue a higher degree upon completion of the terminal degree.

A great resource to have (if you don't already) is Graduate Study in Psychology published by the APA. It has a listing of all APA accredited programs around the U.S. MA/MS programs are in there as well.

 

[nycpsychloy]

I would not recommend doing a Masters program prior to applying to a PhD/PsyD program unless you are not a psychology undergrad. I had many people tell me this prior to entering a MA program at a very good school and I wish I had heeded their advice. The reason is not that MA programs are pointless... the reason is that they are too easy. MA programs in psychology (clinical at least) are structured to give the basic knowledge needed to pursue an advanced degree.... if you have a BA in psychology then these programs will just be a review and will waste your time and money. I'm sorry if this sounds pessimistic but I just came from class tonight where my fellow students and I had this same conversation...

In regards to gaining research... the only way an MA program would help you gain this is it would introduce you to the people who need research help. I would suggest getting in touch with old teachers to see if they know anyone in the area you intend to live in and contact them about what they know about positions. That is how I found my first research job... the second way I would suggest is to put together a CV and a cover letter and mail them out to every institution that does research in this area as well... that is how I got my second job. Most places need help and would greatly appreciate a volunteer who, if they work hard enough, can move into a paid position later on.

Again! sorry for the negativeness about MA programs... I just think now looking back that my last two years would have been better spent working on applications and maybe volunteering during my free time instead of going to class...

 

[erg923]

Although it's not the optimal route for sure, I strongly disagree with the last post. It can be helpful to boost your GPA and prove you can handle grad level work. For example, a 3.1 in undergrad is not very good, but this can be offset significantly by a 4.0 in masters program. Its certainly not enough to get you in by itself, but it certainly helps. 2.) I found the clincial exposure and the rigorous experience of carrying out an empirical masters thesis enormously helpful in my growth as a research and as a grad student in general. Again, alot of doctoral programs might not care alot about this, but for me personally, it was a real learning experience. Remember, some people might not be decided on committing to a Ph.D. or Psy.D program. A masters gives you some great experience and a good introduction to whats to come. I did NOT find my classes repetitive at all. I new nothing of psychometric assessment or therapy when I started my masters program. I learned more in 2 years than I had in all of undergrad.

With all that said, if you know for sure you want the doctorate, and your undegrad GPA is solid, it provides little benefit to actually getting in to a doctoral program. You are better served by being an RA for a year or 2. However, I found my masters to be a great experience, and I found myself ahead of the game (in comparison to many of my cohort) in terms of clincial knowledge upon entering my Ph.D.

 

[TJNYM]

I am currently enrolled in a MS in Experimental Psych program, and I think it can be a great way to help you get into PhD programs. A lot of people, including myself came into the MS programs b/c they were either unable to get directly into a PhD program and/or they were not exactly sure what exactly within psych they wanted to do. It can be a great way to get research experience, build up the GPA, pad the resume, etc. I think pretty much everyone who graduated last yr from my program that decided to apply to PhD programs got in, and the few that didn't were ones that only applied to one or two schools.

The main drawback of the Masters programs is that there are not nearly as many programs that provide funding, but there still are some out there. Also, it just takes more time and its unlikely your full masters course load will carryover into the PhD program so you may end up having to repeat some classes. Based on some of the comments from previous posters who feel their Masters is going to end up being worthless, I guess you have to make sure you look very closely into the makeup of the program you are applying to. Make sure you apply to a program that is research oriented so you can get that much needed experience.

 

[psychlove]

There's a lot of negative talk about master's but I can't speak highly enough of it.

I applied for ph.d and master's programs and was shut out of the ph.d. but got into 2 master's ones. I think the master's program definitely eases your transition into grad school life.

1. It teaches you how to write, write, write. Unlike undergrad, it seems most grad level courses require 10 page papers in addition to coursework. For those who sluffed off in undergrad, this may be difficult.

2. It helps you decide whether ph.d. is for you. I know when I came out of undergrad I was naive and thought oh ph.d. definitely no problem. Now that I'm halfway through a master's I'm itching to get done with school and thankful I'm not trapped into a 4-6 year ph.d. program

3. In conjunction w/ the above...if you decide you've had your fill you can get licensed and jobs w/ a master's.

just some things to consider.

 

[2BeAProfessor]

Although it's not the optimal route for sure, I strongly disagree with the last post. It can be helpful to boost your GPA and prove you can handle grad level work. For example, a 3.1 in undergrad is not very good, but this can be offset significantly by a 4.0 in masters program. Its certainly not enough to get you in by itself, but it certainly helps. 2.) I found the clincial exposure and the rigorous experience of carrying out an empirical masters thesis enormously helpful in my growth as a research and as a grad student in general. Again, alot of doctoral programs might not care alot about this, but for me personally, it was a real learning experience. Remember, some people might not be decided on committing to a Ph.D. or Psy.D program. A masters gives you some great experience and a good introduction to whats to come. I did NOT find my classes repetitive at all. I new nothing of psychometric assessment or therapy when I started my masters program. I learned more in 2 years than I had in all of undergrad.

With all that said, if you know for sure you want the doctorate, and your undegrad GPA is solid, it provides little benefit to actually getting in to a doctoral program. You are better served by being an RA for a year or 2. However, I found my masters to be a great experience, and I found myself ahead of the game (in comparison to many of my cohort) in terms of clincial knowledge upon entering my Ph.D.

I would second this post and I would add that I have seen students do 1 year in experimental psych programs and then transfer into a PhD program. I am not necessarily advising that but I know it happens - you are going to have to work your butt off if you want to do that!
Secondly, experimental psych. programs are great for graduate level work - but even more key is getting research experience - STRONGLY recommend it -
Get on a publication - that is tremendous.

Another factor is what kind of PhD prestige level are you looking at? A university like University of Wisconsin Madison would be a good bet but research is key if you want to go there..

Another advantage with a MS in experimental psych is you can work for a marketing company which requires statistics if you realize a PhD is not for you..
the knowledge is not lost and it will definitely improve your thinking if you are more inclined towards the research end of the spectrum

 

[wdd]

I would second this post and I would add that I have seen students do 1 year in experimental psych programs and then transfer into a PhD program

I've heard this, too, from two deans of reputable institutions, one of which provides only the MS degree.

There are also a few one-year, general/experimental programs, like Brandeis in MA, that seem to offer the opportunity to get in on some research, get some practicum experience, etc.--a good general MS.

 

[saribou13]

i applied to phd programs this year, but so far i've gotten a bunch of rejections and no interview invites my undergrad major was not in psych, but i've been taking classes over the past year a did a couple RAs w/ professors. i don't know why any of my profs neglected to tell me that i was still wildly unprepared to apply for phd programs, but they didn't. so basically i wasted my time & money, and now i'm just scrambling to formulate a backup plan now. i was able to transfer one of my applications to a MS program at one of the schools whose phd i was rejected from. it's actually an MS in Marital & Family Therapy. they also go by "MMFT" - has anyone heard of programs like this? while there are opportunities for research w/in the program, it doesnt seem like its mandatory but certainly an option if you're interested in pursuing it. i don't know if this will ultimately help me, but it is what i'm ultimately interested in, and if after i graduate, i STILL don't get into phd programs, i like having the option of being able to get my licensure. whereas many general psych MAs don't seem to prepare you for any set career path, provided that you still don't get into phd programs afterwards. i guess i'm just torn and confused. any opinions/advice are appreciated!

 

[Regression]

Depends if you want to do counseling or research in the long run

Getting a PhD in counseling is overkill as plenty of people with an MA, MFT, etc. are good practitioners.

If you want to delve into research, then getting the Gen MA/MS helps you get the experience.

 

[miripsych]

I've applied to PhD programs this year, but am also applying to several clinical M.A. programs as backup's. I feel like there's a wealth of literature out there on how to go about applying to doctoral programs, but not to master's. In writing my personal statements, is it necessary to go into detail about my match with faculty research interests? Will it hurt my chances if I mention an interest that no one there is currently researching or is general programmatic fit more important?