Getting accepted to pharmacy school after being dismissed from another health professions program?

[PAtoPharm]

Does anyone know if pharmacy schools are likely to be willing to accept an applicant who was previously dismissed from another health professions program (but not pharmacy) for academic failure (this hasn't happened yet, but asking just in case)? If so, would someone's best chances of acceptance be with the private schools?

Thanks....

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[PharMed2016]

I think it will be hard but not impossible. What were the reasons for failure if you don't mind me asking?!

 

[steveysmith54]

proly the newer less competitive schools. If you know that you going to be dismissed/fail PA school, just withdraw from your courses before you receive the failing grades/dismissal. It will be much easier to say that you withdrew from a program that you had no interest in rather than trying to explain why you failed...Sometimes making the first move is the hardest, i recommend if you are performing this poorly due to lack of interest, just withdraw. sometimes it takes a step back to move forward

 

[Lnsean]

probably gonna be really hard for any health major if they see that dismissal

 

[PAtoPharm]

proly the newer less competitive schools. If you know that you going to be dismissed/fail PA school, just withdraw from your courses before you receive the failing grades/dismissal. It will be much easier to say that you withdrew from a program that you had no interest in rather than trying to explain why you failed...Sometimes making the first move is the hardest, i recommend if you are performing this poorly due to lack of interest, just withdraw. sometimes it takes a step back to move forward

Thanks for the advice... unfortunately, if I do decide to not continue with the program I'm in, I don't think I'll be able to withdraw at this point since it's so late in the semester. I guess that I'll just have to focus on doing everything I can to pass my classes, and then I'll decide how to move forward.

So when people recommend to apply to newer or less competitive programs, would a program like LECOM count? Many people on this forum refer to it as a "diploma mill" and by other derogatory terms, but based on the average admission stats of accepted applicants that are posted on their website, it seems like the school attracts a pretty competitive applicant pool....

probably gonna be really hard for any health major if they see that dismissal

I think so, too. Would you happen to know of any pharmacy programs with specific policies on this type of matter?

I think it will be hard but not impossible. What were the reasons for failure if you don't mind me asking?!

Well, I haven't actually failed any classes or been dismissed yet, but I've basically been having a really hard time in a lab class, as well as some trouble in a few didactic classes. I guess I'm just interested in knowing how a potential dismissal would affect my prospects for getting accepted to pharmacy school.

 

[steveysmith54]

Thanks for the advice... unfortunately, if I do decide to not continue with the program I'm in, I don't think I'll be able to withdraw at this point since it's so late in the semester. I guess that I'll just have to focus on doing everything I can to pass my classes, and then I'll decide how to move forward.

So when people recommend to apply to newer or less competitive programs, would a program like LECOM count? Many people on this forum refer to it as a "diploma mill" and by other derogatory terms, but based on the average admission stats of accepted applicants that are posted on their website, it seems like the school attracts a pretty competitive applicant pool....

I wouldn't assume anything, I would speak to the school's officials to find out for sure. When I went to school, we had an associate director of student affairs who knew everything about school's academic policies, including academic probation policies, remediation, etc. Knowledge is power, before making a decision it's important to get all the info. It may obviously be too late to get any kind of tuition refund, but it may be ok to withdraw with a W.

As far as Lecom, i don't know anything that school. I live on the west coast. We have 4 new schools that opened in the last two years, chapman, KGI, California health sciences, and westcoast. From what i hear and seen, their admission criteria isn't exactly ultra selective and # of applicants to pharm school has been on an immense decline. I think the key is figure out why you are not doing so hot in PA school bc you may face the same problems in pharm school.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Well, I haven't actually failed any classes or been dismissed yet, but I've basically been having a really hard time in a lab class, as well as some trouble in a few didactic classes. I guess I'm just interested in knowing how a potential dismissal would affect my prospects for getting accepted to pharmacy school.

Pharmacy school isn't easy (yes, I know lots of people here act like its a cakewalk, but bare in mind those were the people who were validictorian of their undergrads and probably graduated a year early as well.) Getting accepted to pharmacy school won't be the problem, graduating from pharmacy school will be the problem. If you can't handle the coursework in PA school, you aren't going to be able to handle the coursework in pharmacy school.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Pharmacy school isn't easy (yes, I know lots of people here act like its a cakewalk, but bare in mind those were the people who were validictorian of their undergrads and probably graduated a year early as well.) Getting accepted to pharmacy school won't be the problem, graduating from pharmacy school will be the problem. If you can't handle the coursework in PA school, you aren't going to be able to handle the coursework in pharmacy school.

It's not so much the coursework I'm having difficulty with, but the hands-on lab course (which basically is supposed to simulate the work of being an anesthesia PA). There's only one didactic course I'm having a somewhat hard time with. Ironically enough, my highest grade right now is in pharmacology, which is many other students' lowest grade.

The part of your post where you stated that getting accepted to pharmacy wouldn't be a problem caught my eye... so you seriously don't think I would have a really hard time getting accepted to pharmacy school, even if I end up getting dismissed from PA school?

 

[PAtoPharm]

I wouldn't assume anything, I would speak to the school's officials to find out for sure. When I went to school, we had an associate director of student affairs who knew everything about school's academic policies, including academic probation policies, remediation, etc. Knowledge is power, before making a decision it's important to get all the info. It may obviously be too late to get any kind of tuition refund, but it may be ok to withdraw with a W.

As far as Lecom, i don't know anything that school. I live on the west coast. We have 4 new schools that opened in the last two years, chapman, KGI, California health sciences, and westcoast. From what i hear and seen, their admission criteria isn't exactly ultra selective and # of applicants to pharm school has been on an immense decline. I think the key is figure out why you are not doing so hot in PA school bc you may face the same problems in pharm school.

For some reason, my school's program doesn't have a "withdraw-for-a-W" deadline on their course calendar, but for most programs, it was closer to the midpoint of the semester back in October. Also, other students have said that once a student has expressed reservations to the program director about staying in the program, they basically put a "target" on their back from that point on if they decide to stay, so that's another reason why I'm apprehensive about asking when the withdrawal date is. But since most programs' withdrawal dates are much earlier in the semester, I figure that it's highly unlikely they'd let me drop now, anyways.

 

[W19]

I remember reading one of your threads 2 months ago and it was clear that you were not doing well. You should have withdrawn from your classes then... Anyway, I don't think you will have an issue getting in some low tier pharm school providing you can explain why you did not do too well in anesthesia school. I would advise you to shadow some pharmacists and see if it is something you will like... I am assuming pharm school will be as challenging as anesthesia school. Figure out why you have had tough time in anesthesia before making another attempt at professional school...

 

[MindGeek]

once a student has expressed reservations to the program director about staying in the program, they basically put a "target" on their back from that point on if they decide to stay

Imagine the 'target' on your back after you've failed a class and get left back. From experience, this stigma can be a powerful motivator, but is not fun.

Ironically enough, my highest grade right now is in pharmacology

Pharmacy school is a lot more than just pharmacology. The classroom part of pharmacy school is basically three tracks running at the same time: pharmacology, therapeutics (P&T, or D&D), and patient assessment (pharmacy practice lab).

It's not so much the coursework I'm having difficulty with, but the hands-on lab course (which basically is supposed to simulate the work of being an anesthesia PA)

Patient assessment/pharmacy practice lab is not going to be as 'physical' as the physical examination courses in PA school, but if you are already having a problem with standardized patients in timed video recorded sessions this will not be resolved by switching to pharmacy school. We have already have SP sessions and ACPE is pushing to add OSCEs too.

Pharmacy school covers anesthesia. A pharmacy school may be uneasy about admitting you if you have failed on anesthesia since you will be tested on it by them in-school, and will surely encounter surgical patients on core APPEs.

My advice is do not count yourself out yet. Do everything you can to pass. Make them dismiss you, don't just give up. Know your school's course remediation policy going in to the final exam. Have a remediation plan/concession (ie. I agree to take a comprehensive exam on the entire failed course in January before the next semester starts, or I agree to re-take the entire course at its next offering) approved by your advisor and ready to sign and send off to the student progression committee the instant you do fail. Find an advisor who will fight for you on the committee even if they are not your assigned advisor. Being a 'marked' man by the faculty now is better than looking like you don't care at all later by the progression committee.

My big question is what do you want to do? Do you want to practice as a Physician Assistant or a Pharmacist? Both are okay choices, they just have to be what you want. The good news is that you don't need to decide now. Your top priority has to be passing that course. If you fail you'll have plenty of time to decide.

PA training would be helpful for a pharmacist, especially an ambulatory care pharmacist. The number of dual degree pharmacists is growing (full disclosure: this will include myself in a month). The job market is pretty much at the saturation point for pharmacists, so differentiation is key for new grads. Add to you toolbox, don't subtract. Nobody is going to force you to work as a PA after PA school. Though if you do finish PA school you could work as a PA during pharmacy school. Imagine having part-time PA income during school instead of part-time pharmacy intern income. It's not about money though, it's about what you want long-term as your career.

Good luck on those remaining labs! Keep us posted.

 

[BidingMyTime]

The part of your post where you stated that getting accepted to pharmacy wouldn't be a problem caught my eye... so you seriously don't think I would have a really hard time getting accepted to pharmacy school, even if I end up getting dismissed from PA school?

Pharmacy schools are drastically increasing in number (and there are new ones in the works.) There are extremely expensive for-profit pharmacy schools that can't get enough applicants to fill all their slots. Now if you care about going to an established school or a state school, competition will be much stiffer and having failed out of another previous program will definitely hinder you. But if you have ability to get loans, and aren't worried about what school you go to, then yes, I don't think you will have any problems finding a school that would accept you.

 

[steveysmith54]

For some reason, my school's program doesn't have a "withdraw-for-a-W" deadline on their course calendar, but for most programs, it was closer to the midpoint of the semester back in October. Also, other students have said that once a student has expressed reservations to the program director about staying in the program, they basically put a "target" on their back from that point on if they decide to stay, so that's another reason why I'm apprehensive about asking when the withdrawal date is. But since most programs' withdrawal dates are much earlier in the semester, I figure that it's highly unlikely they'd let me drop now, anyways.

wow that's some PA school that you're in. You're paying tuition and you deserve more. School got their money, it should be your right to explore and know all your options. Also, the school should be there for you to inform you of them and not be out there to get you. If this indeed the case, it's sad.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Well, I have a somewhat unfortunate update to post; my classes for this semester just wrapped-up within the past couple of weeks, and unfortunately, I failed my anesthesiology simulation lab final (I.e., like a "dress rehearsal" of running through the simulated anesthesia care of a patient during a surgery). I passed all my other classes. The program I'm attending allows students to remediate no more than 2 courses, and if I don't successfully remediate the lab final, I will have an F on my transcript. So in other words, even if I leave the program after this semester and apply to pharmacy school instead, it is still in my best interest to pass the remediation attempt. There are several more lab classes I will have to take over the next few semesters if I choose to stay in the program, and the simulation finals for those courses all become progressively more challenging, so there is a real danger of failing and having to remediate additional courses. The problem with that, however, is that students can only remediate a maximum of 2 courses, so if I fail the lab course next semester and remediate it, I won't have anymore remediation attempts to use if I fail any of the proceeding lab courses (which become progressively more challenging, as I alluded to earlier). If I fail out after the spring or summer semesters, I'll be over $100k in debt and without a high-paying career to help pay it off.

So now the big question is, will pharmacy schools still be willing to interview/accept me if they see that I have remediated a course? Apparently, if I pass the remediation, the grade on my transcript will be something like C' or C(E) or a similar "variant" of C, so I'm not sure how pharmacy schools will react to that....

 

[gwarm01]

So you either remediate the course and get the chance to move on, or you fail? Seems like an easy choice.

 

[PAtoPharm]

So you either remediate the course and get the chance to move on, or you fail? Seems like an easy choice.

That's right -- but even if I remediate the course, the grade on my transcript will be a "special" type of a C that indicates that I only passed via remediation. I wasn't sure if that would ruin my chances of getting accepted to a majority of pharmacy schools.

 

[MindGeek]

So you either remediate the course and get the chance to move on, or you fail? Seems like an easy choice.

If your only problem is with simulation labs, is there another lab after this one that's are harder?

if I remediate the course, the grade on my transcript will be a "special" type of a C that indicates that I only passed via remediation

If I had a dollar for every asterisk on my transcripts for that I could get Chipotle and add the guac.
Unless you're going for a residency or post-grad don't sweat it.

 

[PAtoPharm]

If your only problem is with simulation labs, is there another lab after this one that's are harder?

Yeah, there are 2 more simulation lab finals that I would have to take during each of the next 2 semesters (and only one remediation attempt remaining).

If I had a dollar for every asterisk on my transcripts for that I could get Chipotle with the guac.
Unless you're going for a residency or post-grad don't sweat it.

So residency/post-grad programs would actually evaluate my transcript to pre-pharmacy school grades when determining whether or not I'm competitive for their programs? In other words, grades earned prior to attending pharmacy school are scrutinized?

 

[BidingMyTime]

So now the big question is, will pharmacy schools still be willing to interview/accept me if they see that I have remediated a course? Apparently, if I pass the remediation, the grade on my transcript will be something like C' or C(E) or a similar "variant" of C, so I'm not sure how pharmacy schools will react to that....

Competitive schools might care, the over-price for-profit one will still take you....they have empty seats to fill and will take anyone who can pay.

Either way...whats done is done. A variant C is going to look much better than an F, so given your choice is only between those 2, you need to figure out what you did wrong and do your best to get the variant C.

 

[MindGeek]

In other words, grades earned prior to attending pharmacy school are scrutinized?

All transcripts go into PharmCAS (for pharmacy school application). Even if you just took a course in high school for college credit, or college credit outside of your 'home' university during breaks. It all goes into PharmCAS and gets verified and shown to the schools in terms of the GPAs it computes and the course listing it shows. Whether the school looks at the list or filters GPAs to exclude below a certain threshold is another story. I believe all transcripts go into PhorCAS (for residencies) but a resident will have to chime in.

If you have two more labs after this one then you do have some thinking to do. For now just focus on passing the final retake. Good Luck!

 

[PAtoPharm]

All transcripts go into PharmCAS (for pharmacy school application). Even if you just took a course in high school for college credit, or college credit outside of your 'home' university during breaks. It all goes into PharmCAS and gets verified and shown to the schools in terms of the GPAs it computes and the course listing it shows. Whether the school looks at the list or filters GPAs to exclude below a certain threshold is another story. I believe all transcripts go into PhorCAS (for residencies) but a resident will have to chime in.

If you have two more labs after this one then you do have some thinking to do. For now just focus on passing the final retake. Good Luck!

Thanks for the info. Regarding whether schools actually scrutinize an applicant's PharmCAS transcript on course-by-course basis, that's another thing I was wondering about -- have you heard about whether any schools in particular do this? Or do most programs just evaluate the overall GPA, PharmCAS score, and pre-requisite course grades? Also, even if a program's admissions committee doesn't actually thumb through applicants' transcripts, are you aware of any sort of "algorithm" that notifies them of the presence of an F on transcripts? The reason I ask is because even if I fail the remediation attempt, my GPA should still be somewhat competitive for the lower-tiered schools (between 3.3 - 3.4, most likely), so an ad. com. member isn't likely to scrutinize my transcript for the F unless something else brings it to their attention.

Thanks for your advice, BTW!

 

[MindGeek]

Schools can look at everything or filter to include or exclude anything. Every school is different and this isn't something that they would report. They could filter to generate interviewees and run another filter after to narrow it down. They could weight GPA, PCAT, and interview vastly different.

If you do get an interview @PAtoPharm and it's open file they will notice and exploit failures and retakes. If it's closed file and you interview well you should be in the clear. SDN does have a resource to see if a school has an open or closed interview. http://schools.studentdoctor.net/schools/4/pharmacy-school-rankings/0
School Rankings > P-School > select school > interview feedback > view all questions > expand drop down of questions. It's under Questions > "What type of interview was it" category.

Everything goes into PharmCAS. All schools, courses, retakes, academic bankruptcy, etc. You code it, order the transcripts, and they verify everything. There is a way to indicate if a course has been retaken, but it will not exclude it from your GPA. As a result your PharmCAS GPA will be lower than your 'home' university's because of the retakes.

There is a thread that addressed retakes on PharmCAS GPA...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...te-your-gpa-if-youve-retaken-a-class.1133761/

The fine print of the entire PharmCAS process is here.
http://www.pharmcas.org/content/uploads/Instructions-2015-2016.pdf

 

[rph3664]

Competitive schools might care, the over-price for-profit one will still take you....they have empty seats to fill and will take anyone who can pay.

And that's exactly where you DON'T want to go.

 

[Illinette2012]

So residency/post-grad programs would actually evaluate my transcript to pre-pharmacy school grades when determining whether or not I'm competitive for their programs? In other words, grades earned prior to attending pharmacy school are scrutinized?

I'm a current P4 going through the residency application process, and I've only come across 1 program that requires applicants to send in their pre-pharmacy transcripts. The vast majority of programs only ask for pharmacy school transcripts.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Bad news.... I found out today that I failed my lab remediation and have been dismissed from my program.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Bad news.... I found out today that I failed my lab remediation and have been dismissed from my program.

What was the remediation process and how did you fail?

 

[PAtoPharm]

What was the remediation process and how did you fail?

The remediation process was basically just a repeat of the anesthesia case management simulation lab final (I.e., running through a simulated surgery as the anesthetist, kind of like a clinical "dress rehearsal"). According to the instructors who proctored my simulation final remediation, I failed because I made many mistakes, ranging from improper patient care techniques (unless you have a background in anesthesiology, you won't understand what I'm talking about if I get into specifics) to bad drug administration decisions. I also committed a huge no-no when I performed a single action that violated a hugely critical concept in the practice of anesthesia. To directly quote my program director, "it was really bad." They basically said that there was no way they could risk permitting me to begin the first clinical rotation, which was scheduled to occur in a few weeks. I am literally a walking death machine when tasked with the responsibility of using my own clinical judgment to administer cardioactive drugs.

In my program, students are allowed 2 attempts to pass the lab simulation final. If they fail the second attempt (I.e., the remediation), they are dismissed.

On the bright side, I passed all my didactic courses. If someone wanted to compare my predicament to that of a pharmacy student in an analogous scenario, I'd say it's roughly the same thing as a pharmacy student passing all their didactic courses and failing a practical exam.

 

[Amicable Angora]

The remediation process was basically just a repeat of the anesthesia case management simulation lab final (I.e., running through a simulated surgery as the anesthetist, kind of like a clinical "dress rehearsal"). According to the instructors who proctored my simulation final remediation, I failed because I made many mistakes, ranging from improper patient care techniques (unless you have a background in anesthesiology, you won't understand what I'm talking about if I get into specifics) to bad drug administration decisions. I also committed a huge no-no when I performed a single action that violated a hugely critical concept in the practice of anesthesia. To directly quote my program director, "it was really bad." They basically said that there was no way they could risk permitting me to begin the first clinical rotation, which was scheduled to occur in a few weeks. I am literally a walking death machine when tasked with the responsibility of using my own clinical judgment to administer cardioactive drugs.

In my program, students are allowed 2 attempts to pass the lab simulation final. If they fail the second attempt (I.e., the remediation), they are dismissed.

On the bright side, I passed all my didactic courses. If someone wanted to compare my predicament to that of a pharmacy student in an analogous scenario, I'd say it's roughly the same thing as a pharmacy student passing all their didactic courses and failing a practical exam.

What were some of these mistakes, especially the "huge no-no"?

Why did you end up doing so badly despite this being your second attempt?

 

[PAtoPharm]

What were some of these mistakes, especially the "huge no-no"?

Why did you end up doing so badly despite this being your second attempt?

I don't want to give out too many specific details that would make my situation identifiable, but the huge mistake occurred towards the end of the "surgery" when I administered a neuromuscular blockade reversal drug (e.g., neostigmine, etc.) using bad clinical judgment. I should have caught myself before I made the mistake, but I guess I was just moving too fast and administered it anyways. I also made several mistakes with respiratory management techniques and equipment use. According to the instructors who proctored the simulation, it just seemed like, in an all-around sense, the transition from didactic concepts to practical application just wasn't "clicking."

As to why I ended up doing so badly despite this being my second attempt, that's a good question. Every simulation final is different in the sense that every student is given a different "patient," and therefore, the instructors create (via the simulation software) different clinical problems during every simulation. I can say that I corrected all the mistakes I made during the first sim final and didn't make any of them again during the remediation final. So I guess you could say it was a case of replacing past, corrected mistakes with new ones.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Did you think you were well prepared before going into this retake?

 

[PAtoPharm]

Did you think you were well prepared before going into this retake?

That's hard to say.... I think that I could have definitely used more practice, but at the same time, I still would've made at least several of the huge fail-worthy mistakes (including administering a cocktail of vasopressors and other inotropic cardiac drugs that could have provoked a massive MI in someone with CAD). I might not have made one of the mistakes, but I don't think it would have resulted in me passing.

 

[Amicable Angora]

That's hard to say.... I think that I could have definitely used more practice, but at the same time, I still would've made at least several of the huge fail-worthy mistakes (including administering a cocktail of vasopressors and other inotropic cardiac drugs that could have provoked a massive MI in someone with CAD). I might not have made one of the mistakes, but I don't think it would have resulted in me passing.

So here's my concern... a lot of material in pharmacy is not straightforward, and there are often assessments and practical experiences that are very unforgiving. Even the "simple stuff" can cause a lot of grief. For example, I heard that many schools now require students to learn how to manually take blood pressures and get readings within 5 mmHg... this might cause you some distress or difficulties.

In pharmacy school, if you went into a test of any kind with severe deficiencies of knowledge or in a situation where "could have definitely used more practice," you are very likely to get a bad score or even fail. It seems that you either did not have the urgency to prepare sufficiently for the retake, or perhaps is it that you cannot objectively assess your strengths and weaknesses?

 

[PAtoPharm]

To answer your question, I think it was a combination of not preparing sufficiently and possibly not being cut-out to do fast-paced, high-acuity work. I don't think it was exclusively an issue of not preparing enough, because (as I said in my previous post) I still would've made at least 2 critical errors. It's not necessarily that I can't handle hands-on, procedural healthcare work at all -- I think it's more about the type of work. For example, I know how to take manual BP readings without any issues, and I even know how to start IVs with a reasonable degree of proficiency.

I also think it's worth mentioning that I wasn't in danger of failing any other courses (which were all didactic). Ironically enough, a handle of students had to remediate pharmacology, but I did pretty well in the class.

 

[Dalteparin]

First, I'm really sorry to hear that you were dismissed from school. That really sucks, and I'm sure you feel terrible.

Second, a little food for thought: you think that you might not be "cut-out to do fast-paced, high-acuity work." I want to caution you that many pharmacy job are fast-paced and high-acuity. If you don't like or have an aptitude for that type of work, you will be miserable in pharmacy. (And maybe you do have an aptitude for that type of work, but you're better off sitting in front of a computer than in the thick of things.)

 

[PAtoPharm]

First, I'm really sorry to hear that you were dismissed from school. That really sucks, and I'm sure you feel terrible.

Second, a little food for thought: you think that you might not be "cut-out to do fast-paced, high-acuity work." I want to caution you that many pharmacy job are fast-paced and high-acuity. If you don't like or have an aptitude for that type of work, you will be miserable in pharmacy. (And maybe you do have an aptitude for that type of work, but you're better off sitting in front of a computer than in the thick of things.)

Thanks for the advice.... would you mind expanding on your statement regarding lots of pharmacy jobs being fast-paced/high-acuity? Are you referring to the fact that retail pharmacists who work in certain stores have to multitask and fill/verify many prescriptions in a short amount of time? Or are you referring to certain types of hospital pharmacists who participate in code situations and other emergencies?

 

[Amicable Angora]

Both can be but mostly retail

 

[PAtoPharm]

Both can be but mostly retail

I guess the question is, would I be able to handle the type of fast-paced work that retail pharmacists have to be able to handle? Isn't it different from managing the kinds of life-or-death issues that anesthesia personnel have to deal with? In other words, I think I would be able to handle the type of multitasking that pharmacists do (filling/verifying prescriptions, talking to insurance companies over the phone, dealing with customers, etc.), but is there a way to be sure?

 

[Dalteparin]

Thanks for the advice.... would you mind expanding on your statement regarding lots of pharmacy jobs being fast-paced/high-acuity? Are you referring to the fact that retail pharmacists who work in certain stores have to multitask and fill/verify many prescriptions in a short amount of time? Or are you referring to certain types of hospital pharmacists who participate in code situations and other emergencies?

As Amicable Angora said, both. In retail, you'll have stacks of prescriptions to verify while there's a line of people at the drive through, someone who needs counseling, someone shouting at you about their copay and someone trying to get you to tell them where the Cheetos are and the phone won't stop ringing. In hospital, you'll have 100 orders in the queue while L&D is demanding you get their toradol up STAT, that critical patient in ICU needs their levophed quad-concentrated, there's a Code Stroke in the ED, and the phone won't stop ringing.

Have you worked in a pharmacy? Volunteered at a pharmacy? Shadowed or talked to a pharmacist? If not, do these things before you apply to pharmacy school. That will give you a better understanding of whether or not this is for you.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I guess the question is, would I be able to handle the type of fast-paced work that retail pharmacists have to be able to handle? Isn't it different from managing the kinds of life-or-death issues that anesthesia personnel have to deal with? In other words, I think I would be able to handle the type of multitasking that pharmacists do (filling/verifying prescriptions, talking to insurance companies over the phone, dealing with customers, etc.), but is there a way to be sure?

It is a matter of life and death. People have died because of misfilled prescriptions, both in hospital and retail. The difference is, the death will occur later, not immediately like in anesthesia. And there is the potential for you to realize a mistake after the fact and have time to fix it (but because of working fast, this is unlikely to happen.) Both hospital and retail, which is 95% of pharmacy jobs require multi-tasking and quick-second decisions, as well as clinical judgment because many cases aren't going to match what you read in a textbook.

I really think you don't have a correct idea of what pharmacy entails, and the problems you are having as a PA will also be problems you have in pharmacy.

At minimum, you need to get a job as technician and see what day to day life is like (even this won't give you a completely accurate picture of the pressures of a pharmacist, but it will give you a good picture.)

 

[WalSlave]

Question. I've seen you call yourself a "PA anesthetist" student (which isn't really a thing), and then you mentioned in another thread that you were dismissed from AA (anesthesiology assistant) school. So which one is it, PA school or AA school? It can't be both and the two professions are not interchangeable. PAs can work in the anesthesiology field but that has nothing to do with going to AA school. It's disingenuous to label yourself a Physician Assistant student when you were never in PA school.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Question. I've seen you call yourself a "PA anesthetist" student (which isn't really a thing), and then you mentioned in another thread that you were dismissed from AA (anesthesiology assistant) school. So which one is it, PA school or AA school? It can't be both and the two professions are not interchangeable. PAs can work in the anesthesiology field but that has nothing to do with going to AA school. It's disingenuous to label yourself a Physician Assistant student when you were never in PA school.

There's nothing disingenuous about what I said. First of all, AAs are regarded as anesthetists (maybe there are CRNAs who wouldn't agree). Second of all, in my state (GA), AAs are licensed as PAs who work exclusively in anesthesiology. Check out some of the top results below:

https://www.google.com/search?q=PA+...rome..69i57.2728j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[WalSlave]

There's nothing disingenuous about what I said. First of all, AAs are regarded as anesthetists (maybe there are CRNAs who wouldn't agree). Second of all, in my state (GA), AAs are licensed as PAs who work exclusively in anesthesiology. Check out some of the top results below:

https://www.google.com/search?q=PA+...rome..69i57.2728j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Wow, I apologize, I've never heard of such a thing and I'm pretty involved in the PA world. Is this something exclusive to Georgia? I tried researching the schooling and I don't quite get how it works. From what I can see, you have to be a PA-C first and then there are accelerated AA tracks. Did you attend a program that combined the two? This is very interesting.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Wow, I apologize, I've never heard of such a thing and I'm pretty involved in the PA world. Is this something exclusive to Georgia? I tried researching the schooling and I don't quite get how it works. From what I can see, you have to be a PA-C first and then there are accelerated AA tracks. Did you attend a program that combined the two? This is very interesting.

No problem; most people aren't really familiar with the quirks of that profession. So in 1969, the AA/PA anes. profession was started in GA with Emory offering the first program, and from what I've learned, the licensing requirement that recognizes AAs as PA anesthetists in GA was established back then. As far as I know, GA is the only state that licenses them as "PA anesthetists." What is ironic is that the AAPA (lobby group that represents PAs) has taken the official stance in the past that they don't consider AAs to be part of "their" PA profession, so GA is something of an exception. But the practices that hire AAs typically hire them interchangeably with CRNAs, so they still tend to call them "anesthetists," even if they don't also refer to them as "PAs." It's kind of confusing, but it's like this -- an anesthesia group might say that their anesthetist team is comprised of a staff of 40 CRNAs and AAs. AA programs are "standalone" masters-level programs that anyone can apply to as long as they will have earned a bachelor's degree and completed the pre-med prereqs by the time they'd be starting the program. Emory used to have a PA-C to AA track, but I think they did away with it a few years ago due to lack of interest. Ironically enough, the website for the lobby group that represents AAs is www.anesthetist.org.

At times, I still feel regretful about failing out and wonder if I just didn't put in enough effort. However, I just heard from some of my former classmates, and they lost at least one additional student at the end of the spring semester (which just wrapped up), and I recall that the student who was dismissed was pretty sharp in lab/class. So I think moving forward with going to pharmacy school might be the most realistic plan for me right now.

 

[WalSlave]

No problem; most people aren't really familiar with the quirks of that profession. So in 1969, the AA/PA anes. profession was started in GA with Emory offering the first program, and from what I've learned, the licensing requirement that recognizes AAs as PA anesthetists in GA was established back then. As far as I know, GA is the only state that licenses them as "PA anesthetists." What is ironic is that the AAPA (lobby group that represents PAs) has taken the official stance in the past that they don't consider AAs to be part of "their" PA profession, so GA is something of an exception. But the practices that hire AAs typically hire them interchangeably with CRNAs, so they still tend to call them "anesthetists," even if they don't also refer to them as "PAs." It's kind of confusing, but it's like this -- an anesthesia group might say that their anesthetist team is comprised of a staff of 40 CRNAs and AAs. AA programs are "standalone" masters-level programs that anyone can apply to as long as they will have earned a bachelor's degree and completed the pre-med prereqs by the time they'd be starting the program. Emory used to have a PA-C to AA track, but I think they did away with it a few years ago due to lack of interest. Ironically enough, the website for the lobby group that represents AAs is www.anesthetist.org.

At times, I still feel regretful about failing out and wonder if I just didn't put in enough effort. However, I just heard from some of my former classmates, and they lost at least one additional student at the end of the spring semester (which just wrapped up), and I recall that the student who was dismissed was pretty sharp in lab/class. So I think moving forward with going to pharmacy school might be the most realistic plan for me right now.

That is fascinating, thank you for taking the time to type that out; today I learned! I know you've probably already thought about this from all angles, but have you considered applying to PA programs (maybe not in GA)? You clearly have the chops if you were accepted to AA in the first place and I'd imagine you could spin your dismissal in a more positive direction.