Getting extremely worried about science LORs....

[deleted307836]

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Sorry, I know that variants of this topic are discussed all the time. It'd be great to get some personal advice for my situation though.

I just finished my freshmen year, and completed the gen bio and gen chem prereqs. I did well in all of them, but I was never able to visit my professors' office hours due to time restraints and an extremely erratic schedule. I'm a non-science major, and it's worrying me that all I have left is physics, ochem, and bio electives to get science LORs from. Also, all of the science classes I'll take in the future will have hundreds of students in them.

These are the two main barriers that have prevented me from getting to know my professors:

** They recommend to ask questions to the TA first.
(BTW, I wouldn't ask my TA's for LORS, as they have either been fairly immature or not proficient English speakers.)

** The professors' scheduled office hours have usually been during times when I have other classes or work commitments.

What if these barriers (especially the second) persist? I plan on doing research in the social sciences, but no hard sciences as those undergraduate research spots are usually reserved for hard science majors, and usually for graduate students at that.

I probably go to the worst university possible for getting LORs. This is also the main concern of my non-science pre-med acquaintances.

How bad is it to have mediocre, non-personable science LORs? I feel like that's the best I can do at this point, despite getting good grades in the classes.

Any suggestions on how I can improve this? It's really starting to worry me a lot. Thanks

 

[samuraiR]

if you did well, see if they have any research ops and if they do see if you can jump onboard

 

[deleted307836]

if you did well, see if they have any research ops and if they do see if you can jump onboard

Honestly, that's really not possible with the professors I've taken chem and bio with. My 1st chem professor was a theoretical physical chemist, and barely has enough spots to give to graduate students. No undergrads work with him. My chem 2 lecturer doesn't do research.

My bio professor only does research with graduate students as well, due to the very detailed nature of his research.

BTW, I didn't inquire about any of this, it was pretty clear on the websites for their labs.

And TBH, I really don't have an interest in performing bench research.

 

[2050vlsb]

I was in a similar position with regards to science LoRs .. it can be really difficult to get good letters when you go to a school where even the upper div classes are giant.

To address some of your concerns

- I rarely went to my professors' OH (mainly out of being so intimidated), and relied more on my GSIs ... it turned out fine, because when I ended up asking for LoRs, I checked with the professor to see if they could also just co-sign the letter .. that way, it has the personal touches from someone who knows you, but carries the weight of your prof

- If you have a conflict with a professor's OH, you can usually email them and make an appointment to meet with them some other time .. this might actually be preferable as you won't be competing with 20 other people for the prof's attention ..

- I hated the idea of doing wet lab research (I had to take a cell bio lab my last semester, and I was perpetually anxious that I was going to pipet something wrong or run a gel incorrectly bleh) .. However, that's not the only type of research you can do .. if I'd had the choice, I probably would've ignored research altogether, but given that its expected now at a lot of schools, I looked for more clinical/human based research. It was personally much more intellectually stimulating and easier to handle .. Also, if you can't find research opportunities at your own school, look and see if there are other schools/labs/etc. near by that you can work with .. I went to UC Berkeley for undergrad, and I know a lot of people who either didn't want to work in a lab on campus or couldn't find something ended up finding opportunities at UCSF or the SF Veterans Hospital

G'luck!

 

[deleted307836]

I was in a similar position with regards to science LoRs .. it can be really difficult to get good letters when you go to a school where even the upper div classes are giant.

To address some of your concerns

- I rarely went to my professors' OH (mainly out of being so intimidated), and relied more on my GSIs ... it turned out fine, because when I ended up asking for LoRs, I checked with the professor to see if they could also just co-sign the letter .. that way, it has the personal touches from someone who knows you, but carries the weight of your prof

- If you have a conflict with a professor's OH, you can usually email them and make an appointment to meet with them some other time .. this might actually be preferable as you won't be competing with 20 other people for the prof's attention ..

- I hated the idea of doing wet lab research (I had to take a cell bio lab my last semester, and I was perpetually anxious that I was going to pipet something wrong or run a gel incorrectly bleh) .. However, that's not the only type of research you can do .. if I'd had the choice, I probably would've ignored research altogether, but given that its expected now at a lot of schools, I looked for more clinical/human based research. It was personally much more intellectually stimulating and easier to handle .. Also, if you can't find research opportunities at your own school, look and see if there are other schools/labs/etc. near by that you can work with .. I went to UC Berkeley for undergrad, and I know a lot of people who either didn't want to work in a lab on campus or couldn't find something ended up finding opportunities at UCSF or the SF Veterans Hospital

G'luck!

Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately my school doesn't have GSI's. As a psych major I will have plenty of research opportunities though... just nothing that will lead to a science LOR.

Any other thoughts?

 

[deleted307836]

BTW I would totally recommend to any freshmen right now to go to a SMALLER SCHOOL... 😡

 

[turkeybean]

OP, I was in a similar position in undergrad and I can understand your challenges.

I suggest that you grasp any opportunity to even get close to the TA so that at least someone from an authoritative standpoint can speak about you academically and intellectually. For me, I didn't actually think about getting a letter from the prof because he just seemed too far away and the TA was much more accessible. When I asked the TA for a letter, he was very responsive and willing, and he actually suggested that he would provide substantial contents/ideas about me, forward them to the prof and have the prof "write" it then sign it as well (but presumably the letter was written by the TA really). He said that the prof's signature would be better. He was indeed very kind.

So, I think that if you could get the TA (who knows you well) to forward his/her thoughts about you to the prof, that could translate into a good LOR.

 

[MrCheetah]

Thanks for the advice! Unfortunately my school doesn't have GSI's. As a psych major I will have plenty of research opportunities though... just nothing that will lead to a science LOR.

Any other thoughts?

You really gotta make it a point to get into see your remaining future science professors during office hours and ask intelligent questions in class, man.

3 to 5, 15 to 20 minute meetings should be enough for the professor to feel comfortable writing you a (at the very least) generic LOR. And a generic LOR might not pull much weight for your application (hopefully you'll have other things that will do that plenty well) but will at least give you that *eligibility* you seek.

 

[deleted307836]

OP, I was in a similar position in undergrad and I can understand your challenges.

I suggest that you grasp any opportunity to even get close to the TA so that at least someone from an authoritative standpoint can speak about you academically and intellectually. For me, I didn't actually think about getting a letter from the prof because he just seemed too far away and the TA was much more accessible. When I asked the TA for a letter, he was very responsive and willing, and he actually suggested that he would provide substantial contents/ideas about me, forward them to the prof and have the prof "write" it then sign it as well (but presumably the letter was written by the TA really). He said that the prof's signature would be better. He was indeed very kind.

So, I think that if you could get the TA (who knows you well) to forward his/her thoughts about you to the prof, that could translate into a good LOR.

That's a great idea! I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future. Thanks a lot.

You really gotta make it a point to get into see your remaining future science professors during office hours and ask intelligent questions in class, man.

3 to 5, 15 to 20 minute meetings should be enough for the professor to feel comfortable writing you a (at the very least) generic LOR. And a generic LOR might not pull much weight for your application (hopefully you'll have other things that will do that plenty well) but will at least give you that *eligibility* you seek.

Yeah, at this point if I have any more conflicts with my professors' office hours, I think I just have to go even if that means skipping another class (I hate skipping lectures). I guess I've always had in it my mind that I need to know professors amazingly well or something to at least be able to ask for an LOR, but what you described makes sense and actually sounds pretty reasonable. I do plan on actually getting very good LORs from my clinical experiences and non-science courses though.

👍 Excellent advice above. Thank you 😎.

 

[DaisyBuchanan]

My undergrad science classes were huge lectures as well, and I didn't feel comfortable asking any of my professors for letters. I then took some classes at another 4-year college, where the max class size was 50. I got to know the professors pretty well and it was pretty simple to ask them for letters.

As you're a psych major, maybe try to take neurobio as one of your upper division electives and get friendly with those profs 🙂

You have plenty of time to figure it out, so don't stress too much now, okay?

 

[deleted307836]

I'm going to bump this thread because this semester is turning out to be a major failure on getting to know my science profs. I'm taking two science courses, and I haven't even spoken with either of them as I can't make the office hours for one because I have a class with required attendance at the same time, and my other prof holds office hours by appointment only... but I'm not going to bother with him as he has implied that he doesn't really want to be bothered and I can't imagine him writing a good LOR. Both have over 300 students in them as well (they're bio electives).

Yuck. Any other advice? I so regret not going to a LAC.

 

[user123456]

perhaps it might make you at least feel better that i am in the exact same situation. junior fall, and i have 0 ideas on who to ask for recs. same case with huge classes and professors telling you to go to your TA which you can't really argue...

 

[deleted307836]

I'm actually seriously considering transferring to a smaller school (for this and other reasons).

I was talking with one of my friends who is in the first class with me... when she goes to office hours, she says there are always a couple dozen people vying for the professor's attention. On top of that, the professor has urged us to ask questions on the class' online forum instead of in person as it is more efficient. So it doesn't sound like I would have made any significant in-roads even if I could have made office hours for this class.

Time to start my transfer search. Trust your gut when picking colleges, HS seniors...

 

[georgearms]

I'm actually seriously considering transferring to a smaller school (for this and other reasons).

I was talking with one of my friends who is in the first class with me... when she goes to office hours, she says there are always a couple dozen people vying for the professor's attention. On top of that, the professor has urged us to ask questions on the class' online forum instead of in person as it is more efficient. So it doesn't sound like I would have made any significant in-roads even if I could have made office hours for this class.

Time to start my transfer search. Trust your gut when picking colleges, HS seniors...

Why can't you take some upper level science classes? At my school these classes only have 30-40 people in them, and the professors are more accessible because they're not dealing with 200 annoying pre-meds.

 

[ap594]

I'm actually seriously considering transferring to a smaller school (for this and other reasons).

I was talking with one of my friends who is in the first class with me... when she goes to office hours, she says there are always a couple dozen people vying for the professor's attention. On top of that, the professor has urged us to ask questions on the class' online forum instead of in person as it is more efficient. So it doesn't sound like I would have made any significant in-roads even if I could have made office hours for this class.

Time to start my transfer search. Trust your gut when picking colleges, HS seniors...

I can completely empathize with your situation, as I go to a big ten school and I've been in science lectures with 500+ people in them. I actually think the gen chem has over 1000 kids in the class... Anyway, I managed to still score some really strong LOR's from my science profs. One was a prof that I had for two upper level classes for whom I TA'd. Another was my academic advisor that ended up being one of my upper level science professors.

In all honesty, I did not "plan" any of these letters out as I progressed through undergrad. However, their comments ended up being surprisingly strong, and I think the fact that the relationship was not contrived for the sole purpose of applying to med school helped. What I'm trying to say is: do your thing and make some connections with professors/advisors/researchers when you can. Eventually, you'll find your interests and some strong letters will likely follow suit without any extended effort.

I don't know if this helps at all, and it's just my personal 2 cents. But, it worked for me!

 

[Frazier]

My gen chem class was 300+ students. The prof's office hours were during another class period for me.

At the end of ~4 out of 5 classes, I went to her to talk about whatever [topic clarification, exam questions, how her other section is going, etc etc].

Eventually, it reached the level where it was appropriate to ask such things as "so how'd your weekend go? did your daughter win her soccer game?" etc.

I found out that while she doesn't do research herself, she does run a volunteer program to teach stuggling chem student's intro material. She asked if I would like to join her program. I happily accepted. We are sincerely good buddies now.

It helped that middle-aged women apparently find my combination of: thick glasses, full beard, straight teeth, high marks and tall stature appealing...(I noticed that this works quite well with my lab TA's too whom are middle aged women.) Perhaps if I was short, fat and a B-student I wouldn't have gotten a "foot in the door" per se.

If you are a girl -- so what? Smile and be charming just the same.

 

[georgearms]

It helped that middle-aged women apparently find my combination of: thick glasses, full beard, straight teeth, high marks and tall stature appealing...(I noticed that this works quite well with my lab TA's too whom are middle aged women.) Perhaps if I was short, fat and a B-student I wouldn't have gotten a "foot in the door" per se.

If you are a girl -- so what? Smile and be charming just the same.

Lol this is awesome