Getting into a U.S. Medical School from McGill University

[tryp]

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[Scottish Chap]

I am a Canadian citizen who has been living in the U.S. for nine years on a green card (N.Y. resident). If I were to attend McGill University in Canada, keep my green card and my N.Y. residency status, and get grades and MCATs comparable with what I'd get at a decent U.S. college, how possible would it be for me to get into a U.S. medical school, preferably a NY state school such as SUNY Downstate?

I'm not sure what your major anxiety is from your post. Citizenship requirements? Undergraduate degree requirements?

The undergraduate college matters less than people think, so attending McGill will not be a guarantee of successful admission if that was where you were going. You have permanent residency status in the U.S. and so citizenship will neither hinder nor augment your application success. Second to this, as long as the undergraduate degree was completed in the U.S. or Canada (with the required prerequisite subjects), medical schools in the U.S. won't care - as long as the MCAT score and GPA are competitive (3.6+ and 30+, respectively). Good luck with your endeavors!

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

Good luck getting a competitive GPA @ McGill, my sister goes there and that place is brutal with the grade deflation.

 

[Darkshooter326]

Good luck getting a competitive GPA @ McGill, my sister goes there and that place is brutal with the grade deflation.

Maybe, but there have to be some people that get "competetive" GPA's. Not everyone ends up with a 2.75, is what I mean. Somebody is getting a 3.8, so it is doable.

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

Maybe, but there have to be some people that get "competetive" GPA's. Not everyone ends up with a 2.75, is what I mean. Somebody is getting a 3.8, so it is doable.

True, but that is a lot more difficult if they fit the (assumed normal) distribution to a C average. At my school they generally set it to the B/B- line, if there is a curve at all. Thats 2.0 to a 2.7/3.0 or decrease by .7 to 1.0... pretty significant.

Not saying you can't do well there but with 500 person intro Chem and an unforgiving curve (along with professors not scared to hand out C's like candy) that 3.75 is a lot more difficult to obtain.

 

[Cirrus83]

I don't think it'd hurt you much if you plan on applying to a school that's open to Canadian citizens. But umm...not all US Allo schools even take applications from Canadian citizens so...it'll definitely hurt you at those schools.

Although I did notice even on Downstate's website it says:
"Admissions preference is also given to applicants who have completed prerequisite courses in four year colleges/universities in the United States (not in study abroad programs)."
And umm, technically that wouldn't include McGill, but I dunno if it'd actually hurt you since I'm pretty sure they just don't want people studying abroad and taking pre-reqs where it's easy. Still, probably doesn't help you lol.

Anyways, I wouldn't let it stop you from going to McGill, but I'd consider maybe trying to get US Citizenship if it's possible.

 

[Boris Badenov]

If you've got a green card, you're golden. You don't need to be a citizen for anything.

Some schools are only open to in-state residents, but that's a totally separate issue from citizenship.

 

[Star polyp]

I am a Canadian citizen who has been living in the U.S. for nine years on a green card (N.Y. resident). If I were to attend McGill University in Canada, keep my green card and my N.Y. residency status, and get grades and MCATs comparable with what I'd get at a decent U.S. college, how possible would it be for me to get into a U.S. medical school, preferably a NY state school such as SUNY Downstate?

McGill is an excellent school although extremely difficult. The post about grade deflation is true. You have to consider this, there are not too many Canadian medical schools and thousands of premeds. So they will make your life a living hell just to weed students out. There policy is to see who has enough drive to survive. You make it out of there, regardless of what your GPA is, and I guarantee you will be prepared for anything in the future. But do you also want to risk graduating with a low GPA. These are all questions you want to ask yourself. I would talk to some medical school students at McGill who also did undergrad there and see what they say. Best of luck to you.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I don't think it'd hurt you much if you plan on applying to a school that's open to Canadian citizens. But umm...not all US Allo schools even take applications from Canadian citizens so...it'll definitely hurt you at those schools.

Although I did notice even on Downstate's website it says:
"Admissions preference is also given to applicants who have completed prerequisite courses in four year colleges/universities in the United States (not in study abroad programs)."
And umm, technically that wouldn't include McGill, but I dunno if it'd actually hurt you since I'm pretty sure they just don't want people studying abroad and taking pre-reqs where it's easy. Still, probably doesn't help you lol.

Anyways, I wouldn't let it stop you from going to McGill, but I'd consider maybe trying to get US Citizenship if it's possible.

The OP has a green card so it's a moot point. The only school that s/he cannot apply to is the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences which requires U.S. citizenship.

 

[mikkey]

Hey
I'm at McGill, and although I have never heard of grade deflation beware! Profs expect students to be the best (they continually tell us that we have the highest entering grades in Canada). Hence, they give out impossible exams, and the material is very dense and complicated. They also recently reviewed their first year biomedical courses, as they were considered "too easy". As for easy, aka bird courses, there aren't that many. Also, most Art's professors consider B to be an outstanding grade and hand out no As, so there goes your well rounded application.
As McGill is in Quebec, they have no money and students are super crapped in labs and courses.
However, I must say that it is an outstanding institution and that the profs are really good (for the most part). So if you are in for a challenge, you are heading for the right place. For US Med schools, I called them up to ask a few questions, and when they heard that I was coming from McGill, they were soooo much nicer and helpful, assuring me that I would have no problems applying.
Hope this helps!

 

[akinf]

McGill tends to have a really good rep. in the US. However, I don't think it is any harder than other schools. I have a friend who has attended McGill and another school in Canada with a pretty bad rep. for undergrad (its graduate programs are really good though). He says the only difference is the nightlife, the way the students dress, and the amount of pot on campus. The actual courework difficulty is negligible and he has had to take some of the same courses at both schools because some of the courses didn't transfer from McGill. So, if you want to go to an awesome university with a diverse student population in a great city, go to McGill. However, if you are avoiding McGill because you think the course work is harder...think again...it isn't going to be easier anywhere else.

 

[omegaxx]

McGill tends to have a really good rep. in the US. However, I don't think it is any harder than other schools. I have a friend who has attended McGill and another school in Canada with a pretty bad rep. for undergrad (its graduate programs are really good though). He says the only difference is the nightlife, the way the students dress, and the amount of pot on campus. The actual courework difficulty is negligible and he has had to take some of the same courses at both schools because some of the courses didn't transfer from McGill. So, if you want to go to an awesome university with a diverse student population in a great city, go to McGill. However, if you are avoiding McGill because you think the course work is harder...think again...it isn't going to be easier anywhere else.

I agree. 1st-year courses are designed to weed out ppl unsuited for that particular field of studies at most public schools. Though the average may be a C or C+, the standard deviation is usually going to large enough to accomodate A's as well as pretty sad F's. Arts classes will vary in difficulty b/c of the prof. There will be profs who have handed out 2 As in their own 20 years of teaching career no matter where you go. Just avoid them, go for the more reasonable markers, put a good effort in and you should get what you deserve.

 

[tryp]

Although I did notice even on Downstate's website it says:
"Admissions preference is also given to applicants who have completed prerequisite courses in four year colleges/universities in the United States (not in study abroad programs)."

This sort of thing was my concern, that even with a green card, I would have a hard time getting in just due to having studied in another country instead of the U.S. People seem to think that it's not a huge problem with a school like McGill, though, so that's good.

 

[Scottish Chap]

This sort of thing was my concern, that even with a green card, I would have a hard time getting in just due to having studied in another country instead of the U.S. People seem to think that it's not a huge problem with a school like McGill, though, so that's good.

You need to call them. That is the only way you will receive an answer. Again, try not to over-estimate the brand name of any undergraduate school. It matters less than people think and there are infinitely better criteria that you can use to assess the suitability of an undergraduate program in preparing you for medical school.

 

[mjzoey]

One of a kid who graduated from my med school last year went to McGill as undergraduate, I am pretty sure that's the school that he went to. (If anything I am 100% sure that he did undergraduate from Canada).

 

[NikoNLS8]

it's not a problem whatsoever. McGill has a tremendous reputation in the US, especially in the Northeast. I promise you it won't be a hindrance. However, since it's a big school, it doesn't have a premedical committee or anything of that sort, so you have to do everything on your own. It's a great school. I went there for undergrad. It's very tough, but also worth it in the end. And it is possible to get a good GPA, you just have to work for it.

 

[stixx]

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[Mateodaspy]

definitely possible -- i know a few mcgill kids at harvard and all the ny schools. good luck.

 

[NikoNLS8]

Of course, it's very possible to do well. The way courses are organized at McGill (and other Canadian schools) is what makes it hard. In the US, few (if any, I've never personally heard of any) have, for example, 70-100% finals. While the material may be the same, just having a 80% final makes it more stressful and difficult.

 

[Acherona]

The issue is whether or not you are a US citizen and can apply for Stafford loans to fund your expensive U.S. education. If you are an international student you are not eligible and must therefore pay out of pocket. Most people can't do this. You could do your undergrad in timbuktu, as long as you are an american citizen you will have no problem applying in the states. Of course the quality of your undergrad will matter but coming from McGill tha tshouldn't be a hindrance.

I don't think you should worry about grade deflation too much at mcgill. I think it is true they give out more C's and B's, but at least compared to my american (small, liberal arts) undergrad, there was considerably less work and more "slacker" students so it probably evens out. Also, remember that an 80 is an A or something weird like that.

 

[Scottish Chap]

The issue is whether or not you are a US citizen and can apply for Stafford loans to fund your expensive U.S. education. If you are an international student you are not eligible and must therefore pay out of pocket. Most people can't do this. You could do your undergrad in timbuktu, as long as you are an american citizen you will have no problem applying in the states.

This is very incorrect information and certainly worthy of clarification.

It is better to be a foreign citizen with an American undergraduate degree than an American citizen with a foreign degree. The latter degree is not accepted by U.S. allopathic schools. Also, Stafford loans are available to green card holders (like the O.P.). U.S. citizenship makes no difference.

 

[mikkey]

Acerona, get your facts right before you post. You need 85% at McGill to get A, not 80. That would be an A-.
As for the slacker students, please point them out. By the time you get to U2 (or 3rd year for out-of-province) slackers are long gone, or are still trying to pass Biol 200. Most students are med school wannabees and hence you've got lots of keeners. Nonetheless, McGill is still an amazing university. 🙂

 

[Acherona]

This is very incorrect information and certainly worthy of clarification.

It is better to be a foreign citizen with an American undergraduate degree than an American citizen with a foreign degree. The latter degree will is not accepted by U.S. allopathic school. Also, Stafford loans are available to green card holders (like the O.P.). U.S. citizenship makes no difference.

I think you need to have some coursework done in the US or Canada but not necessarily a degree. The point is, even if you are canadian and have gone to school in the US (not an US citizen AND no greencard) you are still considered an international student and may therefore be unable to afford it even if you are accepted. I would not necessarily agree with you that it is easier to get accepted under this circumstance than as an american citizen who studied abroad at oxford as I know several people who found the admissions process difficult simply because they were not american citizens/greencard holders.

 

[Acherona]

Acerona, get your facts right before you post. You need 85% at McGill to get A, not 80. That would be an A-.
As for the slacker students, please point them out. By the time you get to U2 (or 3rd year for out-of-province) slackers are long gone, or are still trying to pass Biol 200. Most students are med school wannabees and hence you've got lots of keeners. Nonetheless, McGill is still an amazing university. 🙂

I think it was clear from my post I wasnt' sure of the exact #(it's been a long time...) 80/85, whatever. In the US, you usually need a 95 for an A.

Look, mcgill med has like a 50% acceptance rate for in-province med students. I have no idea why they would be killing each other in undergrad. This is like the most lenient admissions statistic you can possibly have.

I am simply reporting from personal experience how I found the work and the student population. And remember i was comparing to my small, selective, liberal arts college, not another big US university. I'm sorry if you disagree but you are free to post your own experiences.

 

[Scottish Chap]

I think you need to have some coursework done in the US or Canada but not necessarily a degree. The point is, even if you are canadian and have gone to school in the US (not an US citizen AND no greencard) you are still considered an international student and may therefore be unable to afford it even if you are accepted. I would not necessarily agree with you that it is easier to get accepted under this circumstance than as an american citizen who studied abroad at oxford as I know several people who found the admissions process difficult simply because they were not american citizens/greencard holders.

The point is that you clearly have not tried applying to American medical schools with a foreign degree, yet you appear to 'know everything about it'. I know first-hand the issues that such applicants face because I was in this situation and I was also once an international applicant. Your posts continue to be very misleading and incorrect, yet you insist you know better than people who have actually dealt with this issue. It's okay to be wrong, but it's foolish to remain ignorant and continue to misinform people when this issue is complicated enough for those involved (i.e. not you). Foreign grades are not accepted by allopathic medical schools in the U.S. - even if the applicant is a U.S. citizen.

Also, if you are Canadian, various programs like canHELP provide loans and private loans are available with a co-signer who is a U.S. citizen. A Canadian undergraduate degree is not a problem. Several Canadians are in my class (U.S. allopathic school).

 

[Acherona]

The point is that you clearly have not tried applying to American medical schools with a foreign degree, yet you appear to 'know everything about it'. I know first-hand the issues that such applicants face because I was in this situation and I was also once an international applicant. Again, our posts are very misleading and incorrect, yet you insist you know better than people who have actaully dealt with this issue.

umm...I don't remember ever commenting on how much I know compared to anyone else, and i have no idea why you are being so hostile. This is simply a discussion and anyone with an iota of common sense will refer to the proper sources for correct information rather than SDN pre-allo. I have no agenda to post "misleading" information. Clearly you have not considered the possibility that this is a complicated issue and different people may have different experiences based on specificitiies of school and nationality. I am sorry if I have posted any incorrect information -- I now excuse myself from this thread and defer to you as the authority on this matter.