Getting into AOA

[Dedikated2liftn]

sigh...

Looks like someone's got a dumbell comin' his way.

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[DrGregoryHouse]

Looks like someone's got a dumbell comin' his way.

Haha. Awesome.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Looks like someone's got a dumbell comin' his way.

good one.

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

good one.

Thanks thong boy.

 

[ZagDoc]

Please keep the pre-med pissing contests to the pre-med forum.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Please keep the pre-med pissing contests to the pre-med forum.

youll probably get a dumbell too

 

[ClockworkDoc]

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

youll probably get a dumbell too

Nah, the dumbells are reserved for the real douchebags; however, on second thought, I may just toss a pair of pants at you...lord knows, that diaper ain't doin **** for ya.

Don't worry Nick, I think that Huggies and I are just gettin' warmed up.

 

[happytograduate]

It's not being AOA that strictly gives you a leg up, but if you are AOA, you're more likely to destroy the Step 1 and reap the benefits of that as well.

Actually, AOA is usually chosen AFTER you have taken Step 1. Thus, if anything your Step 1 score may influence whether you get AOA.

 

[45408]

Actually, AOA is usually chosen AFTER you have taken Step 1. Thus, if anything your Step 1 score may influence whether you get AOA.

I think his point was that the good grades that you need in order to get into AOA may actually be what's more useful when you apply for residency than the actual AOA status.

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

Actually, AOA is usually chosen AFTER you have taken Step 1. Thus, if anything your Step 1 score may influence whether you get AOA.

But not all schools consider Step 1 for AOA. So depending on where you're at, it may not matter.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

But not all schools consider Step 1 for AOA. So depending on where you're at, it may not matter.

But you won't be taking Step 1 after your school picks AOA, so his point was that AOA could never have a predictive bearing on future Step 1 performance.

 

[TheRealMD]

Actually, AOA is usually chosen AFTER you have taken Step 1. Thus, if anything your Step 1 score may influence whether you get AOA.

Yeah, I meant to imply the inverse. Meh.

 

[nighttrain]

Let's try not to think too hard about this, folks...

for matching, step 1 helps, grades help, aoa helps... it all is important.

 

[DBR]

Slightly off topic but I was wondering if affirmative action was applied to things like AOA and residency matches.

 

[pseudoknot]

Slightly off topic but I was wondering if affirmative action was applied to things like AOA and residency matches.

Uh, no

 

[ClockworkDoc]

Slightly off topic but I was wondering if affirmative action was applied to things like AOA and residency matches.

I wouldn't think that it would play a role in AOA, but anyone know about residency matches. Matches would seem like a valid place to have a URM slideing scale.

 

[Reimat]

Matches would seem like a valid place to have a URM slideing scale.

I don't think this would work. Residency programs submit a rank order list - there is no way to know which applicants you'll be taking on as residents, so it would be nearly impossible to enforce any standards (without violating match rules). This would be particularly true for small programs that take only a few residents annually.

On a side note, I don't think it's really a problem anyway - medical school admissions do a good job of creating diverse classes which invariably leads to a diverse population of MDs.

 

[Dedikated2liftn]

Slightly off topic but I was wondering if affirmative action was applied to things like AOA and residency matches.

Hahaha...you thought this thread was bad before, buckle your ****in' seatbelts!!

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

On a side note, I don't think it's really a problem anyway - medical school admissions do a good job of creating diverse classes which invariably leads to a diverse population of MDs.

If by diverse, you mean the token Indian-girl clique, then you would be correct.

 

[Reimat]

If by diverse, you mean the token Indian-girl clique, then you would be correct.

Lol

But, back to the original purpose of this thread, as others have stated, AOA is so school dependent that the only cross-school advice one can get is "Do as well as you can in everything."

 

[badasshairday]

Gunners

 

[yeasterbunny]

You just need to find out at your school exactly what goes into AOA...

Easier said than done. At my school (and probably most) it is largely a mystery what they are actually basing the decision on, hence the varied opinions of the responders in this thread.

My interpretation of the match data: You do not need to be AOA to match into the competetive specialties, but if you are AOA, you are virtually guaranteed to match into the specialty of your choice. Again, this is probably largely due to that fact that the process of selecting inductees into this competetive group is very similar to the process of selecting residents into the competetive specialties. 50% of non-AOA applicants still matched into derm, but 81% of AOA members applying succeeded. Only 37% of all the applicants were AOA. And derm is the one for which it was most important. In radiation oncology 78% of non-AOA applicants still matched! Almost identical to the match rate overall for US seniors. But 97% of AOA applicants matched.

The same thing generally goes for a PhD by the way, which can go a long way in these fields but is not necessary by any stretch.

 

[velo]

Easier said than done. At my school (and probably most) it is largely a mystery what they are actually basing the decision on, hence the varied opinions of the responders in this thread.

It seemed shrouded in mystery to me as well, but then I just flat out asked our residency adviser and she told me exactly what went into it. Finding out is sometimes just a function of asking the right people in a direct way.

 

[supernareg]

does SGU have an AOA?

somehow can they start an AOA chapter there?

 

[LindsayRein1]

Looks like someone's got a dumbell comin' his way.

hehe

 

[Green Penguin]

Several people have commented that medical school is a lot more competitive than undergrad, which makes sense considering the average matriculating medical student came out of college with a 3.5GPA and good MCAT scores and therefore represents a higher average caliber of student.

In your experience to what extent has this been the case, especially at top schools where everyone comes in with 3.8's and 33+ MCAT scores? And would that almost suggest that going to a medical school with a less competitive class would be beneficial to make you stand out, get AOA, and honors, and thus get the residency of your choice?

Forgive my ignorance but how does the match exactly work? That is, say you wanted to do derm or rads, and tried to match into those programs, what if you didn't match into any residency of your top choice? Do you simply not match and have to wait until the next year? Or would you try to match in one specialty but also have the possibility of matching into another?

 

[Pinner Doc]

Several people have commented that medical school is a lot more competitive than undergrad, which makes sense considering the average matriculating medical student came out of college with a 3.5GPA and good MCAT scores and therefore represents a higher average caliber of student.

In your experience to what extent has this been the case, especially at top schools where everyone comes in with 3.8's and 33+ MCAT scores? And would that almost suggest that going to a medical school with a less competitive class would be beneficial to make you stand out, get AOA, and honors, and thus get the residency of your choice?

Forgive my ignorance but how does the match exactly work? That is, say you wanted to do derm or rads, and tried to match into those programs, what if you didn't match into any residency of your top choice? Do you simply not match and have to wait until the next year? Or would you try to match in one specialty but also have the possibility of matching into another?

Here's my experience, which I found to be the opposite: I went to an ivy undergrad and an ivy medical school (to the extent that a med school can be "ivy"-- maybe I should say ivy-affiliated?). I remember working my tail off in college and graduating cum laude (absolutely respectable, but not top honors). In medical school, I balanced a long-distance relationship, feel like I didn't have to work as hard academically, and graduated AOA, matching to my top choice in emergency medicine. Was med school easier? Empirically, I don't think so. Maybe you could make the argument that I was significantly more interested in disease processes than I was in the finer points of organic chemistry from back in my college days. Maybe I'm an outlier, or maybe my undergraduate school was just full of super smart people, and I was better prepared for med school. Perhaps it just didn't FEEL like I was working as hard, because hard work is the norm in med school (unlike my premed days, where many of my friends had lighter courseloads and I felt the weight more strongly). My point is, I don't think you can generalize these scenarios.

My advice? You're thinking too hard. Just go to the "best" med school that you can attend... or better yet, go to the med school you WANT to attend.

 

[Pinner Doc]

Forgive my ignorance but how does the match exactly work? That is, say you wanted to do derm or rads, and tried to match into those programs, what if you didn't match into any residency of your top choice? Do you simply not match and have to wait until the next year? Or would you try to match in one specialty but also have the possibility of matching into another?

It is my understanding that it's common practice for applicants to competitive fields to also interview in another "backup" specialty (IM, for instance). When it's time to rank, the applicant would rank all the (for instance) derm places he interviewed first, and the IM places after.

However-- if the applicant was dead set on derm, he could ONLY rank derm and take his chances. If he didn't match, he could pad his application with research and the like over the following year and re-apply.

Generally, an advisor at your school would be able to help you decide which route to take, or whether applying in a backup specialty is even necessary.

 

[Green Penguin]

Thank you for the replies! I'll keep that in mind...I wouldn't be making a choice for that reason, I just thought it was an interesting angle to consider. I found some excellent stats for the match that helped to clarify a lot of my misunderstanding too.

 

[Pinner Doc]

Thank you for the replies! I'll keep that in mind...I wouldn't be making a choice for that reason, I just thought it was an interesting angle to consider. I found some excellent stats for the match that helped to clarify a lot of my misunderstanding too.

Good luck! And that was just general advice, not directed to you specifically.

 

[Monica Lewinsky]

It is my understanding that it's common practice for applicants to competitive fields to also interview in another "backup" specialty (IM, for instance). When it's time to rank, the applicant would rank all the (for instance) derm places he interviewed first, and the IM places after.

This is actually not very common.