getting job in CA?

[yowhatup]

---

Members do not see this ad.

i have a desire to work in california as an physician.... if i did neither college, medical school, nor residency in cali would it be hard to find a job in cali?

Also, gaining admission to cali medical schools is extremely difficult.. can the same be said about cali residency programs especially if the applicant has no connection to cali whatsoever

 

[Winged Scapula]

i have a desire to work in california as an physician.... if i did neither college, medical school, nor residency in cali would it be hard to find a job in cali?

Perhaps. In my specialty, a lot of jobs were "word of mouth" that I, even as a Californian, had no hope of hearing while in training back east.

Secondly, perhaps your field will be different but medicine typically pays LESS to live in expensive places. I found jobs in Cali but when the salary offers were so low I figured I didn't need to be THAT close to family.

So the answer to your question is "possibly."

Also, gaining admission to cali medical schools is extremely difficult.. can the same be said about cali residency programs especially if the applicant has no connection to cali whatsoever

Again "possibly". The residency programs are competitive but there really isn't a lot of in-state preference (prepare for the onslaught of SDNers claiming that they DO prefer California residents).

Why do you have such a desire to work in California if you aren't a resident there? Its not all its cracked up to be my friend.

 

[cali-ob]

Perhaps. In my specialty, a lot of jobs were "word of mouth" that I, even as a Californian, had no hope of hearing while in training back east.

Secondly, perhaps your field will be different but medicine typically pays LESS to live in expensive places. I found jobs in Cali but when the salary offers were so low I figured I didn't need to be THAT close to family.

these are my two biggest fears. I am a Ca native and have been kicked out since medical school. If they favor Cali residents, then something was wrong with me...
In any case, Winged you are in AZ right? What would you say is your salary difference (in percentage if you don't want to give absolute numbers) between what you could have gotten in Cali vs what you are getting in AZ. I want to be near my family, but I can't be broke!

 

[yowhatup]

i didn't realize the salaries are low for physicians in CA.... I thought if anything they would be higher

especially according to salary.com, which when I compare it to the east coast and basically any place in the country showing a far greater salary in CA....

are you sure about the salaries being low? And if they are low, are they dramatically low? 🙁

 

[Winged Scapula]

In any case, Winged you are in AZ right? What would you say is your salary difference (in percentage if you don't want to give absolute numbers) between what you could have gotten in Cali vs what you are getting in AZ. I want to be near my family, but I can't be broke!

I didn't actually take the highest paying job here in Az but the right job for me.

However, my salary now is equivalent to most of the California jobs and 50% higher than some of the lower ones there with a lower cost of living.

i didn't realize the salaries are low for physicians in CA.... I thought if anything they would be higher

especially according to salary.com, which when I compare it to the east coast and basically any place in the country showing a far greater salary in CA....

are you sure about the salaries being low? And if they are low, are they dramatically low? 🙁

Salary.com is not accurate. You want the MDMA survey or the AAMC faculty book (for academic salaries).

It is true that salaries in California are greater than in many places, but they are also lower than what you can make in the midwest or the south where the cost of living is much less. I never said the salaries in California were *low* just that they were lower than many other places I interviewed at (and the employers seemed to have some attitude about it...I think they thought I was some east coast person enamoured of California). Of course, it will depend on your field.

And its not just California. I also looked at jobs in NYC - great jobs but if I was going to have to commute in from the burbs because I couldn't afford Manhattan, I didn't want to live there. This tends to be a a "truism" in medicine - you are not generally paid more for a position just because it costs more to live in a certain area.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I didn't actually take the highest paying job here in Az but the right job for me.

However, my salary now is equivalent to most of the California jobs and 50% higher than some of the lower ones there with a lower cost of living.



Salary.com is not accurate. You want the MDMA survey or the AAMC faculty book (for academic salaries).

It is true that salaries in California are greater than in many places, but they are also lower than what you can make in the midwest or the south where the cost of living is much less. I never said the salaries in California were *low* just that they were lower than many other places I interviewed at (and the employers seemed to have some attitude about it...I think they thought I was some east coast person enamoured of California). Of course, it will depend on your field.

And its not just California. I also looked at jobs in NYC - great jobs but if I was going to have to commute in from the burbs because I couldn't afford Manhattan, I didn't want to live there. This tends to be a a "truism" in medicine - you are not generally paid more for a position just because it costs more to live in a certain area.

You mean M"G"MA survey right?

 

[Winged Scapula]

You mean M"G"MA survey right?

Yep, thanks for catching that.

 

[CuriousKat]

How does the job market outside of the major metros compare to the national market? I understand LA, SF, SD, etc are competitive. Are the compensation packages in areas like Merced or Bakersfield comparable to other parts of the country?

 

[yowhatup]

while the salaries may be relatively low, is it hard to find a job in the LA area?.. Especially if ugrad, med school, and residency were in the midwest far removed from CA... It seems to me that there is an over abundance of physicians in CA.

Hypothetical
lets say I land an anesthesiology residency at Henry Ford Hospital (one of the nations best hospitals) as compared to a relatively small hospital in Small state X. While, I am attracted to the relative small hospital in small state x because of the friendly atmosphere and low-stress life, I decide to attend Henry Ford (which I will not like when I'm there because of Detroit, cold weather, overworked residents) just so that I can put on my resume that I trained at Henry Ford. Will going to Henry Ford (because of its reputation) for training dramatically improve my chances of landing a job in CA as compared to going to the small hospital in small state x

I dont mind living another 3 years of my life in torture, if it will help me get a job in CA. Any advice would be helpful.

Also, is there a huge demand for anesthesiology in CA. I know EM is always in demand, but could not get any info about anesthesiology

 

[Winged Scapula]

How does the job market outside of the major metros compare to the national market? I understand LA, SF, SD, etc are competitive. Are the compensation packages in areas like Merced or Bakersfield comparable to other parts of the country?

I'd imagine that they'd pay a fair amount in Merced or Bakersfield.

Then again I've spent a lot of time in those two places and they HAVE to pay me a lot! 😉

(j/k I don't know...didn't look at any jobs there)

 

[Winged Scapula]

while the salaries may be relatively low, is it hard to find a job in the LA area?...

Depends on the market, your skills, what you are willing to negotiate. There are a lot of physicians there, but who knows...maybe there is room for more.

Especially if ugrad, med school, and residency were in the midwest far removed from CA... It seems to me that there is an over abundance of physicians in CA.

There are too many plastic surgeons and dermatologists in LA. There are not enough physicians in rural central California; its a big state and there are a lot of places which are underserved.

lets say I land an anesthesiology residency at Henry Ford Hospital (one of the nations best hospitals)

As an aside, where did you get that idea?

Not a knock on HF but don't believe those "100 Best Hospitals" banners you see flying around. I'm sure its a fine institution, but one of the nation's best? HIGHLY debatable (and for what? What does "best" mean?)

.... as compared to a relatively small hospital in Small state X. While, I am attracted to the relative small hospital in small state x because of the friendly atmosphere and low-stress life, I decide to attend Henry Ford (which I will not like when I'm there because of Detroit, cold weather, overworked residents) just so that I can put on my resume that I trained at Henry Ford. Will going to Henry Ford (because of its reputation) for training dramatically improve my chances of landing a job in CA as compared to going to the small hospital in small state x

HF is not considered some high powered institution that will turn people's heads. More than likely you will find that Californians, outside of those educated in the midwest, will not know where HF is, nor of its reputation. Will if DRAMATICALLY improve your chances? No...very little does. Will it improve your chances? Who knows...perhaps, but again, HF is not a program whose mere mention of the name engenders a glistening glow over your application.

I dont mind living another 3 years of my life in torture, if it will help me get a job in CA. Any advice would be helpful.

Dude...residency is busy. Where you live is not really that important. I saved so much money my first year because I had no time to spend it. And while Detroit might not be your favorite city, "torture" is probably exaggerating a tad.

What is the fascination with California? You're not from there? Why the strong draw?

My advice is that no one can tell you what the market will be like in a few years, especially in an unknown specialty. Maybe you're a fantastic guy who charms everyone he meets and will get offered any job he wants. Maybe you're lucky and just happen to be in the right place at the right time. Or maybe you're average and sometimes you luck out and sometimes you don't. There is no way to tell you how to get a job in California. Probably the easiest way is to do residency there as it will put you in the position of hearing about jobs firsthand.

Also, is there a huge demand for anesthesiology in CA. I know EM is always in demand, but could not get any info about anesthesiology

Huge demand? Probably not.

I know you don't want to hear it, but perhaps you should choose a specialty that interests you rather than one that you perceive as somehow increasing your chances at getting a job.

 

[exPCM]

I think that any physician who goes to California is making a bad move.
California now has both the highest income and sales taxes in the nation.
see: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2009/02/california-tax.html

Also we have President Obama's plan to raise the top income tax rate back up to 39.6% from the current 35%.

Due to proposition 13 new California homeowners pay much higher property taxes than established homeowners.

http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/a... Important Dates...)/How Proposition 13 Works

So even if you get a job in CA most of your pay will not end up in your pocket. What sane person wants to work in a place where you will have the vast majority of your salary taken by taxes?

 

[yowhatup]

Depends on the market, your skills, what you are willing to negotiate. There are a lot of physicians there, but who knows...maybe there is room for more.



There are too many plastic surgeons and dermatologists in LA. There are not enough physicians in rural central California; its a big state and there are a lot of places which are underserved.



As an aside, where did you get that idea?

Not a knock on HF but don't believe those "100 Best Hospitals" banners you see flying around. I'm sure its a fine institution, but one of the nation's best? HIGHLY debatable (and for what? What does "best" mean?)



HF is not considered some high powered institution that will turn people's heads. More than likely you will find that Californians, outside of those educated in the midwest, will not know where HF is, nor of its reputation. Will if DRAMATICALLY improve your chances? No...very little does. Will it improve your chances? Who knows...perhaps, but again, HF is not a program whose mere mention of the name engenders a glistening glow over your application.



Dude...residency is busy. Where you live is not really that important. I saved so much money my first year because I had no time to spend it. And while Detroit might not be your favorite city, "torture" is probably exaggerating a tad.

What is the fascination with California? You're not from there? Why the strong draw?

My advice is that no one can tell you what the market will be like in a few years, especially in an unknown specialty. Maybe you're a fantastic guy who charms everyone he meets and will get offered any job he wants. Maybe you're lucky and just happen to be in the right place at the right time. Or maybe you're average and sometimes you luck out and sometimes you don't. There is no way to tell you how to get a job in California. Probably the easiest way is to do residency there as it will put you in the position of hearing about jobs firsthand.



Huge demand? Probably not.

I know you don't want to hear it, but perhaps you should choose a specialty that interests you rather than one that you perceive as somehow increasing your chances at getting a job.

This is ssssssoooooo disappointing to hear... especially about the taxes 🙁

my dream was always to be a physician in CA, and I was attracted to CA for its sunny climate (75 temperature year round), diversity of people, and beautiful landscape (mountains, rivers). I lived on the West Coast (Washington) for 2 years when I was like 12 years old and absolutely loved it!! I moved to the east coast after that (hated it) and went to schools in the midwest (good for education; not good for living though) Cali also appears to be a perfect place to raise a family. Finally there is pride of living in Cali, often regarded around the world to be the best place in the world... IT IS SO UNFAIR THAT ENGINEERS ARE EARNING A LOT IN CALI.....................

Also, because anesthesiology is not in that much demand as ER, but I love both professions equally should I focus my attention to ER???? I mean all my attention and effort is directed towards anesthesia but a recent found love of ER makes it equally desirable.. but problem with ER is that exists only here in the US as there is not much of a job market for ER outside the US as compared to anesthesia.. but the job market of ER is huge and there is a need everywhere for ER physicians


Final million dollar question: Is going to practice as a physician in California an unrealistic dream... I somehow am feeling I wont get any residencies in Cali............ 😳... the anxiety if not meeting up to my ambitions is killing me

 

[gutonc]

Also, because anesthesiology is not in that much demand as ER, but I love both professions equally should I focus my attention to ER???? I mean all my attention and effort is directed towards anesthesia but a recent found love of ER makes it equally desirable.. but problem with ER is that exists only here in the US as there is not much of a job market for ER outside the US as compared to anesthesia.. but the job market of ER is huge and there is a need everywhere for ER physicians

Why would you care about this? Big picture, as a US-trained physician, your opportunities to practice outside of the US approach zero (yes, I'm aware there are some options but they are so minimal compared to opportunities w/in the US that they don't really matter). If you want to do medical mission work outside the US, they'll happily take any warm body w/ an MD and a stethoscope but if you're talking about actually practicing in (insert name of a country that isn't NZ or Aus here) you'll actually have to train there to practice there.

 

[yowhatup]

Why would you care about this? Big picture, as a US-trained physician, your opportunities to practice outside of the US approach zero (yes, I'm aware there are some options but they are so minimal compared to opportunities w/in the US that they don't really matter). If you want to do medical mission work outside the US, they'll happily take any warm body w/ an MD and a stethoscope but if you're talking about actually practicing in (insert name of a country that isn't NZ or Aus here) you'll actually have to train there to practice there.

i was thinking more along the lines of dubai... as the backup if I can't get a job in CA, which is seeming more likely by the second.. considering that I am starting to RAPIDLY lose any hope of matching into a cali residency... But Dubai wants american-board certified physicians... from what I hear..

i am hoping to get training in something that will make me marketable throughout (If I can get somehow any assurance that if I do ER I will land a job in Cali, then the plan all changes and I look towards doing ER) but if landing a job in Cali will be hard anyway regardless of speciality then I am looking into anesthesia.. i am hoping being trained in anesthesia here in the US will count for basically any country, and I won't have to do training in that country (I am pretty sure that is how it is in Dubai)

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I dunno about dubai but I doubt the job markets for ER or anesthesiology are all that different. Your rights to practice overseas will not be changed by whether you're an anesthesiologist or emergency medicine physician. If you do a residency in either of those I'm pretty sure you can get a job in California. May not be two blocks off Sunset Boulevard but there's plenty of places in Cali that need physicians which have decent weather and are reasonably close to beaches and mountains.

I also think you need to do some more extensive research beyond the replies you get on one internet thread. It seems your life plans are wavering back and forth based on a few replies here and that's not a good way to do things. Read more of SDN, talk to practicing physicians, talk to your classmates and take things slowly.

 

[yowhatup]

I dunno about dubai but I doubt the job markets for ER or anesthesiology are all that different. Your rights to practice overseas will not be changed by whether you're an anesthesiologist or emergency medicine physician. If you do a residency in either of those I'm pretty sure you can get a job in California. May not be two blocks off Sunset Boulevard but there's plenty of places in Cali that need physicians which have decent weather and are reasonably close to beaches and mountains.

I also think you need to do some more extensive research beyond the replies you get on one internet thread. It seems your life plans are wavering back and forth based on a few replies here and that's not a good way to do things. Read more of SDN, talk to practicing physicians, talk to your classmates and take things slowly.

As mentioned, I know I can get a job in Cali... in a small town where there is 1 person for every 50 acres of land (haha)... I am talking more about san diego/los angeles...

I find SDN the most honest source... a lot of people at my school have no idea about getting a job in Cali.. its as if they think its impossible so they wont even look into it.. or it may the competition factor built in

I am starting to see why people say medicine is ultra competitve... getting into med school made me exhausted... med school worries are making me exhausted... residency match day anxiety will put me in a state of permanent anxiety damage... haha... especially if I have to go to one of the LEAST desirable places in the country with the highest murder rate in the country

 

[Winged Scapula]

As a California native, let me dispell some of your (OP's) beliefs about California.

California is not "75 year round". San Diego comes the closest and it is a very small part of the state (and yes, ridiculously difficult to find a job there). Much of California is foggy for several months of the year, cold and rainy or hot and dry. Many places average over 100 in the summer and in the 40s and 50s in the winter. Perhaps you need to be more specific and say that you want to live in San Diego. As a matter of fact, I find the weather here preferable to many places in California (my winters are much warmer and are comparable to San Diego).

California is NOT the perfect place to raise a family. There are much safer places, with less pollution, less traffic and a more reasonable cost of living. Much about California, especially Southern California is artifice. Children often have difficulties in learning what's important outside of what kind of car you drive and how many famous people you know. There's something to be said for good strong midwestern values.

Yes, there are mountains and rivers. But the mountains are cold (no 75 year round) and there are just as many places in the US with lovely topography. If you like mountains, you should consider Colorado. I hear they have some lovely springs too where they brew adult beverages.

I agree that the diversity of California is appealing. It was very difficult at times to be in a mixed race relationship in central Pennsylvania. We never had a problem in California.

At any rate, I think you have fantasized about California for so long that you have blown its attributes out of proportion and are being a bit unrealistic. Its like when I envisioned moving to Manhattan...I thought I'd be living the "Sex in the City lifestyle." Little did I realize that even as a physician there was no way I was affording a pre-war brownstone in the UES.

Don't get me wrong, its a great state and my best friends and family are there, but understand that its a state with a lot of problems just like many other places. There is plenty of time to sort these things out and if you are so desparate to take a job in California, it sounds as if you will sacrifice things like enjoying your job, money in your bank account, etc.

To each his own...

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

I find SDN the most honest source... a lot of people at my school have no idea about getting a job in Cali.. its as if they think its impossible so they wont even look into it.. or it may the competition factor built in

Or maybe the just don't care, because they don't want to live in California *gasp*.

I just wanted to chime in with one little piece of information. I'm going into Radiology, have no interest in going to California or West Coast in general (even though there are some fantastic programs out there). So obviously, I didn't interview at those places. However, at the more prestigious places I interviewed they liked to share how successful they are at getting their graduates into top fellowships and jobs in places like SF, LA, or SD based on their alumni network.

So, I don't think it's necessary to do a residency on the west coast to end up there, but I can't say which is better or worse, easier or harder.

 

[bjackrian]

I think that any physician who goes to California is making a bad move.
California now has both the highest income and sales taxes in the nation.
see: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2009/02/california-tax.html

Alternatively, see Steve Lopez in the LA Times today and the California Budget Project's (non-partisan, well-respected) report on Who Pays Taxes In California:

California is a moderate tax state. In 2005-06, California ranked 13th among the 50 states with respect to state taxes as a percentage of personal income and the state ranked 18th with respect to total “own source” revenues – the broadest measure of state and local revenues – raised by state and local governments in 2004-05, the most recent year for which data are available. California ranks relatively high with respect to personal and corporate income tax collections. The state ranks relatively low with respect to property, vehicle fuel, and alcoholic beverage taxes.

Overall, California ranks 18th among states for state/local taxes as a percentage of personal income. California's overall tax rate is 16.51% (State/Local) and the national average is 15.79%. For example, California ranks 3rd for individual state income tax (averaging 3.67% vs. 2.30% national average), but 38th in property tax (CA 2.61% vs 3.35% nationally). It ranks 20th in sales tax (2.31% CA vs. 2.14% nationally). Note that all of the above are in percentages of personal income (so the state sales tax rate is not 2 or 3%, but that's what people pay into it as a percentage of personal income).

Anyway, California isn't as bad as people make it out to be at times, at least in my opinion.

 

[exPCM]

Alternatively, see Steve Lopez in the LA Times today and the California Budget Project's (non-partisan, well-respected) report on Who Pays Taxes In California:


Overall, California ranks 18th among states for state/local taxes as a percentage of personal income. California's overall tax rate is 16.51% (State/Local) and the national average is 15.79%. For example, California ranks 3rd for individual state income tax (averaging 3.67% vs. 2.30% national average), but 38th in property tax (CA 2.61% vs 3.35% nationally). It ranks 20th in sales tax (2.31% CA vs. 2.14% nationally). Note that all of the above are in percentages of personal income (so the state sales tax rate is not 2 or 3%, but that's what people pay into it as a percentage of personal income).

Anyway, California isn't as bad as people make it out to be at times, at least in my opinion.

The data you cite is outdated. The data I cited is current. California will be increasing taxes even more as their property values sink and they must make up for the lower property tax income. The Steve Lopez column cites old data. You should look at the links I cited above.

 

[bjackrian]

I did look at them. The data I cited do not include the recent tax increases (the ones passed this year)--I acknowledge that. But 2008 is the most recent year for which all states have budgets in place. I don't think you can compare California's new numbers for this year to other states' numbers from last year. It may be that California winds up with higher taxes relative to other states, but I think the jury will be out on that until all state budgets have been approved for the fiscal year.

 

[quideam]

Why would you care about this? Big picture, as a US-trained physician, your opportunities to practice outside of the US approach zero (yes, I'm aware there are some options but they are so minimal compared to opportunities w/in the US that they don't really matter). If you want to do medical mission work outside the US, they'll happily take any warm body w/ an MD and a stethoscope but if you're talking about actually practicing in (insert name of a country that isn't NZ or Aus here) you'll actually have to train there to practice there.

As an aside, what gutonc said about getting jobs outside of the US just isn't true. I'm going into EM, so I only feel qualified to comment on opportunities for EM docs, but I would imagine that the same applies to at least some other specialties. With a US license to practice EM, you CAN work in a lot of different places - and actually, Australia and New Zealand are some of the EASIEST places to find a job - people do this all the time! There are recruiting agencies specifically to get US docs to those two countries! Google it, seriously. Now, as for Europe, there it does get tricky, because generally your US training isn't accepted there; however, i've met EM docs working in the UK and Italy who trained here but were able to arrange a deal over there. The middle east is also a relatively open market - people have definitely gotten jobs in Dubai, Quatar, and Israel; it may be possible to work in other countries as well, but you would have to research that. And, yes, these are all PAID jobs - volunteer work is a whole other thread.

As far as jobs in California go, definitely try for a residency there if you can. But that being said, plenty of people do residency in other parts of the country and then move somewhere else - yes, including California. While the job market is tough, a lot of this really comes down to YOU as an applicant, as well as whether you're looking for a community or academic job. Do well in med school, get a competitive residency, work hard there and then see where it takes you. No reason to freak out about it now, especially since it sounds like you're fairly early in the process - a lot can change between now and then. Good luck...

 

[dragonfly99]

Just like with other popular metro areas (Manhattan, downtown Chicago, etc.) I am sure the good physician jobs are hard to find in LA and San Diego. However, if it is your lifelong dream to live in one of those cities, and you still feel that way after you are done training, I think you can likely find a way to do that. I mean, I'm sure there are too many dermatologists and plastic surgeons in LA, but there is likely SOME hospital that needs another ER doc or anesthesiologists.

Both ER and anesthesia are good fields - I strongly discourage picking one over the other thinking that it guarantees you a job in California. You need to pick the one you like.

If you do want a job in a major metro area, then training at some famous hospital (Harvard, Johns Hopkins, etc.) wouldn't hurt, but it's not going to guarantee you a job by itself. Getting people to like you and having certain skills (like knowing how to anesthetize people for a lot of different types of surgery, etc.) would likely help too in your job search.

I think it's too early to worry about this now. I think if you want to get a job in California, then try to get a residency there, or at least somewhere else in the West (Arizona, Oregon, Nevada, etc.). That will make it easier to look for jobs out there.

I agree with the above comments though about California - there are a wide variety of climates, types of people, sizes of city, etc. It sounds like the OP wants to live in a certain city, and that might be hard to do, especially right off after finishing residency...if the goal is living in San Diego, and that trumps all else, then try to get a residency in that area of California.

 

[yowhatup]

thank you... it was also encouraging knowing that american board certified physicians usually dont have any difficulties finding jobs in essentially any part of the world....

Matching into cali residency seems very unlikely, but I hope to do my training at Henry Ford and basically being able to say I have seen any type of situation known that EM or Anesthesiologists have ever seen.... i mean its inner city Detroit. 😳 (yes it a very scary place.. I wish we Cali's Terminator here).... that should make me more marketable I believe....

But yes, Cali is hheeeaavveen 😎

 

[gutonc]

As an aside, what gutonc said about getting jobs outside of the US just isn't true. I'm going into EM, so I only feel qualified to comment on opportunities for EM docs, but I would imagine that the same applies to at least some other specialties. With a US license to practice EM, you CAN work in a lot of different places - and actually, Australia and New Zealand are some of the EASIEST places to find a job - people do this all the time! There are recruiting agencies specifically to get US docs to those two countries! Google it, seriously. Now, as for Europe, there it does get tricky, because generally your US training isn't accepted there; however, i've met EM docs working in the UK and Italy who trained here but were able to arrange a deal over there. The middle east is also a relatively open market - people have definitely gotten jobs in Dubai, Quatar, and Israel; it may be possible to work in other countries as well, but you would have to research that. And, yes, these are all PAID jobs - volunteer work is a whole other thread.

Clearly, you didn't read what I said. Aus and NZ are, as you (and I) stated relatively straightforward for US docs to get jobs in. Various Emirates are as well but with the economy over there going in the tank I can imagine that this may be less easy in the future. But the rest of the world (SE and East Asia, Western and Eastern Europe, most of S. and Central America, even Canada) are more or less closed to US-trained physicians without jumping through a whole ton of hoops. It's not like you can finish up residency, move to Paris (London, Tokyo, Frankfurt, Prague, Buenos Aires, Toronto, Shanghai, etc) and just get a job.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Clearly, you didn't read what I said. Aus and NZ are, as you (and I) stated relatively straightforward for US docs to get jobs in. Various Emirates are as well but with the economy over there going in the tank I can imagine that this may be less easy in the future. But the rest of the world (SE and East Asia, Western and Eastern Europe, most of S. and Central America, even Canada) are more or less closed to US-trained physicians without jumping through a whole ton of hoops. It's not like you can finish up residency, move to Paris (London, Tokyo, Frankfurt, Prague, Buenos Aires, Toronto, Shanghai, etc) and just get a job.

There's a neuro guy at my school who got his MD and DPhil in the UK and was somehow given unlimited licensure in the state to have clinical privileges without having done a US residency, although doing a residency is supposedly the only way one should be allowed to practice here. Are there analogous situations elsewhere?

I really can't understand why there are so many barriers to US docs working in foreign countries. One would think that with the language not being an issue and perhaps some cultural competence issues dealt with by a licensing exam, the practice of medicine should be similar enough for a US doc to do well in another country.

 

[Waiting4Ganong]

I really can't understand why there are so many barriers to US docs working in foreign countries. One would think that with the language not being an issue and perhaps some cultural competence issues dealt with by a licensing exam, the practice of medicine should be similar enough for a US doc to do well in another country.

Fail! US trained physicians are ideally suited to the practice of medicine in the US. Their skill set is inappropriate for the practice of medicine in many other countries (I've worked in England and France for example). Don't underestimate how different the way medicine is practiced in US compared to much of the rest of the world. Small examples; as a medical student in Europe I never once used a brand name for a medicine, and never saw a commercial for medicine on TV (direct to patient advertising is banned) and never saw a patient self-refer to the specialist they thought their symptoms needed (I'm having pain in my chest, I need to see a lung doctor..)

The nature of the medical system they find themselves training and practicing in means that US Doctors are typically great at using imaging and lab testing but generally weak at clinical examination and cost-effective, preventive, evidence based diagnosis and care. The systems are just massively different.

 

[yowhatup]

what is the situation like for american board certified physicians in Dubai? I am assuming they don't have to train in Dubai, and from what I saw, there is no income-tax..... Only thing I THINK is that once one moves out of Dubai, all the money is returned to the government from the little I understand... In addition often times hospitals provide luxury houses for doctors... but how is the safety and life in Dubai....... especially for raising a family?

 

[Winged Scapula]

As someone who has traveled to Dubai and had a former attending who worked there after residency, I have a couple of comments:

1) safety: felt pretty safe to me, an obvious non-Arabic person of the female gender. Then again, I've been in few places that I felt were less safe than the US (and I've been to a lot of foreign countries).

2) returning money to the government: my former attending worked there for a few years and raked in a ton of dough as a surgeon. As I recall him telling me, the yearly salary was equal to roughly $500K USD/year. He mentioned nothing about having to give it all back if he left. If this is indeed true, its no different than many other countries where there is a limit of how much you can take out of the country...for some reason I recall $10K USD between the US and Oz but I was able to electronic fund transfer all I wanted (with suitable charges of course).

3) raising family - well, that depends on you. Most people don't want to live that far away from parents and grandparents. You haven't said whether or not you are married, male or female, but let me explain something to you about women...most of us are happy to travel around the world with our partners. Some of us are very tied to our families and aren't so interested. Most of us, even the world travelers, are much less interested in living thousands and thousands of miles away from our family, in a foreign country, once we have children. You will find that being that far away (I am of course presuming that you have no family in Dubai and are simply drawn by the ads offering atronomical wages for physicians) from home once you have children is not so desirable.

In the end, if you want to make it work, you probably can. But I suspect <insert age related comment here> that you are being a bit idealistic about all of these plans (how wonderful California is, how great it would be to move to Dubai and work, etc.) without really thinking them through.

 

[psychforme]

I really can't understand why there are so many barriers to US docs working in foreign countries. One would think that with the language not being an issue and perhaps some cultural competence issues dealt with by a licensing exam, the practice of medicine should be similar enough for a US doc to do well in another country.

I don't understand where this "barrier" myth stem from. Canada and US are the only countries I know of with any significant barriers. Maybe UK also. Dont know about the asian countries but I see no reason why you'd want to work in india or china.

 

[yowhatup]

I don't understand where this "barrier" myth stem from. Canada and US are the only countries I know of with any significant barriers. Maybe UK also. Dont know about the asian countries but I see no reason why you'd want to work in india or china.

well considering that there are many indian doctors who are board-certified, seeing an up and rising country may be an attractive option for them to return to India... and from what I hear, doctors are incredibly respected in India, because the admission standards to get into medical school are equal to or even tougher than that of the US

in comparison, I believe from what I understand getting into medical school into China is a joke.. and doctors are not godly respected as they are in India

 

[medicienne]

well considering that there are many indian doctors who are board-certified, seeing an up and rising country may be an attractive option for them to return to India... and from what I hear, doctors are incredibly respected in India, because the admission standards to get into medical school are equal to or even tougher than that of the US

in comparison, I believe from what I understand getting into medical school into China is a joke.. and doctors are not godly respected as they are in India

I second that. I don't know about China but I can tell you that in India, Doctors' morale are really high, including (and especially) GPs and Primary Care. From what I understand 50% of the IMGs who undergo residency training in the USA have plans to go back home and practice for this reason. The rest stay on because they start getting used to the fast and efficient government system of USA. The problem in the Indian Medical System is the very limited slots for residency training compared to the number of undergraduate slots. So there has been a great increase in the last 5 years of the number of applicants from India.