Getting on with life

[hopefool]

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Hello all,

I am at a crossroads. I am 24 and doing my post-bac. Have a 2.5 gpa from Cornell, expecting to be able to bring that up to near a 3.0 if not above by spring '09.

Now if I do this and get a good score on my MCAT, I may still not get into a US school. I am getting involved in very good research experience right now and will probably be published several times in the coming year or two. I have other stuff on my resume, volunteer etc. but my UG gpa is just garbage and theres not all that much I can do about it. I want to get on with my life already.

My girlfriend and I just broke up. We have an age difference of 6 years, shes 30 and I 24. She wants the things that only a person with a job or near to having a good job can give her. I know that its not wise to change your goals an account of a relationship obviously riddled with complications but it just got me thinking. What if I dont even get into a US school for another 5-6 years if at all?! and wind up in the caribbean anyway?? This is something that doesnt make me too happy so I would just like to know the real hard brass tacks about caribbean schools if those of you out there would like to share;

-will I be able to get into one of the big 4 schools right now or very soon? 2.5-2.6 gpa, good MCAT(assumed, because havent taken it yet) with good application otherwise.

-will I be able to get a residency in california or ny without TOO much difficulty? and what are the chances of getting one where I could eventually practice cardiology? (is that a branch of internal medicine?)

-barring the stigma, which I think I can handle, what are the other negatives? I know it may be tougher down there for the two years and all that, but someone told me once that internal medicine, which I thought was the heading that cardiology falls under, wouldnt be all that hard to break into from a caribbean school. Any comments?

Also as a side note, what does a resident make? 30-40,000? I want to start a family or at least not be dead broke forever, especially if I may end up in the caribbean anyway.

Thanks everybody

 

[Lokhtar]

Hello all,

I am at a crossroads. I am 24 and doing my post-bac. Have a 2.5 gpa from Cornell, expecting to be able to bring that up to near a 3.0 if not above by spring '09.

Now if I do this and get a good score on my MCAT, I may still not get into a US school. I am getting involved in very good research experience right now and will probably be published several times in the coming year or two. I have other stuff on my resume, volunteer etc. but my UG gpa is just garbage and theres not all that much I can do about it. I want to get on with my life already.

You probably won't get into a US allo school even with a 3.0, unless you MCAT is extraordinarily high (even then, its iffy). Though with a 3.0 and a high MCAT, you might be able to get into a USDO, especially with a strong upward trend. It's also easier to update your GPA for USDO schools, because if you retake a class, only the newer grade counts. So definitely retake any classes you got below a C in, and your GPA will shoot up.

What if I dont even get into a US school for another 5-6 years if at all?! and wind up in the caribbean anyway?? This is something that doesnt make me too happy so I would just like to know the real hard brass tacks about caribbean schools if those of you out there would like to share;

Its certainly possible, and most likely probable, that you won't get into US allopathic schools even after 3-4 years, unless you do an SMP. An SMP consists of basically medical school courses, so you can do that and if you do very well, you'll be in. However, its very dangerous, as if you do badly, you won't get in. Ever. That's it for you at that point.

-will I be able to get into one of the big 4 schools right now or very soon? 2.5-2.6 gpa, good MCAT(assumed, because havent taken it yet) with good application otherwise.

Maybe. SGU (the school with the best clinicals and reputation) might be tough. Ross's clinicals are a mess. SABA and AUC are ok as well.

-will I be able to get a residency in california or ny without TOO much difficulty? and what are the chances of getting one where I could eventually practice cardiology? (is that a branch of internal medicine?)

Cardiology is the toughest fellowship under Internal Medicine (along with GI). So you certainly have your work cut out for you. If you go to the caribbean, your chances will be diminished, though you can still make it work. You need to excel at schoolwork, and really kill your boards and match into the best IM residency you can. After that, its just how well you do in your residencies.

All US MD schools, all US DO schools, and the top four Caribbean schools (AUC, SABA, SGU and ROSS) are licensed to practice in all the fifty states.

-barring the stigma, which I think I can handle, what are the other negatives? I know it may be tougher down there for the two years and all that, but someone told me once that internal medicine, which I thought was the heading that cardiology falls under, wouldnt be all that hard to break into from a caribbean school. Any comments?

Negatives are its more expensive, and there is less support for you. As for breaking into Cardiology, see above. All things being equal, a program will always choose a US Grad over a Caribbean Grad. But its your responsibility to see that things aren't equal - crush the boards, get better grades/recommendations, etc. Generally, the better IM residency you go to (and do well in), the better chance at a good fellowship.

Also as a side note, what does a resident make? 30-40,000? I want to start a family or at least not be dead broke forever, especially if I may end up in the caribbean anyway.

About 40k-50k is average.

 

[huckaaa]

What I would do..

1. Retake any horrible grades (especially pre-reqs)
2. Make all A's!!!
3. Go DO! they use grade replacement and favor people who might have once messed up but have improved. Plus, they rock!
4. Get good grades in med school and on boards and get a good residency spot
5. Make 30,000-60,000 during residency depending on where you live
6. Start a family anyway... as long as you finish what you start you'll be ok!

Caribbean schools aren't an option for me so I haven't done much research. If you can handle being far away, then maybe it won't be so bad. After all, you can get a residency spot from one. People do each year. You need to excel to get the one you want though. I'm from the southeast, so I don't know about how hard it is in CA. Anyway, DO is great! Do some research and decide what you think.

PS: don't give up your dreams for somebody that obviously doesn't understand you or care about your dreams.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

1. I was older than you (25) when I started this.
2. My GPA (2.2) was lower than yours.
3. I also had a girlfriend. She was quickly placed in the discard pile. I saw her not long ago, and she is now fat. I chose... wisely.

 

[Yourmother]

I chose... wisely.

a famous Indiana Jones III, Quest for the Holy Grail quote.

 

[hopefool]

a famous Indiana Jones III, Quest for the Holy Grail quote.

hahaha, I love it guys.

"We named the dog Indiana. The doooog? you are named after the dog? ha ha!"

One of my favorite Indiana Jones quotes.

Texas T, thanks for the continual support. Yea the girl thing just got me to thinking about getting my stuff going already. In college I only took 2 gen bio courses, one physics and one chem which I did relatively well in, I think the lowest grade I got was a B- in one of the bios, rest B's and B+'s no A's though. I did bad in all my other classes though, semester after semester I had some issues. I have an F in the introductory course of my major, Human Development. That major isnt offered everywhere, and neither are some of the other courses I took. Do you think I can take any courses over and or find equivalent courses that will erase my bad grades in the past? Also, when you say they take the regrades, does that mean they dont use the old grad when calculating your average but just the new one? For instance, I got an F in that class retook it and actually only got a C, better than an F though. Would a DO school only calculate my gpa with the new grade of C? I know some undergraduate schools do that for you anyway, they let you erase an F when you retake the course but not my school.

When DO schools say that you can retake your classes, theyre talking about ANY classes? If thats the case my day and year, for all intents and purposes, has officially just been made. I can ace all of those classes, Im a good student now and if DO schools look at all your retaken courses then Im in good shape.

Thanks everyone

 

[Lokhtar]

Yes you can retake any classes. I would retake any and all classes that you got below a C in, and all pre-reqs that you got a C or below in. I have a F that I'm keeping on my transcript, as a memento I suppose, but generally you should retake it.

 

[hopefool]

Keeping an F as a memento? My F I took over, as it was the introductory course to my major 🙂 I think Im gonna finish up my pre-reqs in the fall of next year and then take another 2 semesters of all classes that I got C's and D's in. Do the new grades just take the place of the old ones? Or do they both get averaged in together? When you apply to DO schools...

Yes you can retake any classes. I would retake any and all classes that you got below a C in, and all pre-reqs that you got a C or below in. I have a F that I'm keeping on my transcript, as a memento I suppose, but generally you should retake it.

 

[Blade28]

When applying to DO schools, many times they'll take the newer grade rather than the original one. So that helps.

For AMCAS (when applying to MD schools), regardless of your school's policies, they see ALL grades on your transcript.

For now, just focus on getting the best grades possible on your post-bac and rocking the MCAT. Then see what med schools you can get into. Don't worry about Internal Medicine residency (5+ years away) or Cardiology fellowship (8+ years away) for now.

 

[hopefool]

Oh yea, Im not worrying necessarily, just trying to gather information and make decisions.

I am however worrying about my chances despite what I plan to do. Even if I get the 4.0 in ~ 60 credits and get a >30 on the MCAT Im still going to be behind the 8-ball. Im thinking nowadays that after next fall when I have all my pre-reqs taken, my gpa should be up from a 2.5 to around a 2.8 or so. Im thinking about taking the whole spring semester to study for the MCAT, taking it over the summer or maybe even before the next cycle of applications is due to Caribbean schools. If I took it in the spring could I apply and be accepted to one of the big 4 caribbean schools in the fall? Theres also three different application periods? meaing you could start in the fall, spring or summer?

In the caribbean, you spend the first two years on the island and then the next two years in the US? but where in the US? I heard Ross students go to Miami, or somewhere in Florida.

With a 2.8 and a 32-34 MCAT, plus good application otherwise, research etc, what are my chances of getting into one of the 4?


Everyone always warns against Caribbean schools but why? student can do fine there. Is it really that much easier for DO? a lot of people Ive talked to dont even know what a DO is.

When applying to DO schools, many times they'll take the newer grade rather than the original one. So that helps.

For AMCAS (when applying to MD schools), regardless of your school's policies, they see ALL grades on your transcript.

For now, just focus on getting the best grades possible on your post-bac and rocking the MCAT. Then see what med schools you can get into. Don't worry about Internal Medicine residency (5+ years away) or Cardiology fellowship (8+ years away) for now.

 

[sexyman]

Everyone always warns against Caribbean schools but why? student can do fine there. Is it really that much easier for DO? a lot of people Ive talked to dont even know what a DO is.

It is easier for DOs. They are US trained physicians, the people you talk to don't matter. DOs have their own matchlist, so obviously there will be NO stigma matching into these programs. DOs also have a better shot at ACGME (allopathic) residencies then do carib students.

So it is actually pretty cool- as a DO you get two enter two matches.

 

[hopefool]

Are there caribbean docs that dont match anywhere? What are some bad stories people have heard...like not being able to practice in the state their family is from etc.

It is easier for DOs. They are US trained physicians, the people you talk to don't matter. DOs have their own matchlist, so obviously there will be NO stigma matching into these programs. DOs also have a better shot at ACGME (allopathic) residencies then do carib students.

So it is actually pretty cool- as a DO you get two enter two matches.

 

[sexyman]

sure there are carib grads that don't match every year! But if you go to the "big 4" your not going to have a problem with practice rights. it just might be harder to get a residency that you want.

But if you are are good student and do well on the boards you shouldnt have a problem coming from those schools. One of my best friends is a 4th year at Ross and scored a step 1 231 and step II 251 and has gotten 15 radiology interviews so far this year.

I just think it is easier if you are a DO thats all. Plus you get to go to school in the US!

 

[Blade28]

Are there caribbean docs that dont match anywhere?

Of course! But there are also US MD/DO students who don't match anywhere either.

 

[hopefool]

Sexyman,

I am seriously considering attending a caribbean med school, but only one of the big 4. There are US MDs that dont match? hmm...

When you say practice rights, what do you mean exactly? Getting a residency that you want also...what are the factors that determine this? location? and or field, I would assume. ie. Dermatology is more competetive than pediatrics for instance.

All I think I am interested, at this point in time, is to be able to practice some form of medicine in NY, California, Florida, or basically anywhere Id want to one day live. If I wound up in family practice Id be totally fine with that, I think I will wind up trying for something else but I would be happy either way.

I wouldnt mind going away to the caribbean for school. My studying wouldnt be very much affected by this, as long as I have access to the internet ( I have heard this may be a problem so...) What are the other advantages a DO would have over a caribbean doc?

At Ross, where do you go after the first two years on the island?

Thanks!!!

sure there are carib grads that don't match every year! But if you go to the "big 4" your not going to have a problem with practice rights. it just might be harder to get a residency that you want.

But if you are are good student and do well on the boards you shouldnt have a problem coming from those schools. One of my best friends is a 4th year at Ross and scored a step 1 231 and step II 251 and has gotten 15 radiology interviews so far this year.

I just think it is easier if you are a DO thats all. Plus you get to go to school in the US!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Advantages? If you actually graduate, I'd imagine that a Caribbean MD and a US DO and US MD would all be about the same. As long as the Caribbean MD went to one of the big ones, and not one of the ones that is apparently blacklisted in a bunch of states.

I'd say the biggest difference is that US medical schools work with their students to help them pass. The Caribbean schools work to weed out the idiots. Basically, they take people who they don't feel can cut it, and take their money. Then, when they've got that, they push them out so that they don't hurt their stats.

Why someone would want to go to freaking Grenada to go to medical school is beyond my comprehension. The idea that it would give you an advantage over a DO, just because you're an MD, is a construct of the pre-med imagination.

 

[sexyman]

Hopefool-

at Ross you don't actually spend 2 years on the island, I believe it is only 16 months...at SGU you spend 2 years (but get longer breaks). At Ross you go to Miami after the 16 months and then you have to set up your own rotations.

I would be weary of the Island of Dominica (where Ross is). You say your studying wont be effected now. What if you contract Dengue Fever (aka bone breaking fever), there is an epidemic on the island there now. Also I spoke to a friend of mine who was visiting her boy friend there for about 3 months- she told me that there are so many mosquitos on the island she can't differentiate between sun burn and mosquito bites(how dengue fever is transmitted). Honestly I can go on and on about the quality of life there because I know personally a bunch of graduates. So if you want to hear any other "horror" stories just PM me and I will give you some of my personal favorites.

Also- I get the impression Grenada (where SGU) is is much nicer. They even have a night club and a movie theater on the island. They also have much better clinical opportunities than any other Carib school. They seem to actually care where their students rotate and eventually match.

The idea that it would give you an advantage over a DO, just because you're an MD, is a construct of the pre-med imagination.

In my experience most pre-meds think DO is the way to GO, lol that rhymed. But hey if you don't want the DO degree you dont want it. Me I am so excited to be a DO.

 

[sexyman]

What I meant by practice rights is just being able to practice in any state. For instance at ROSS or SGU once you graduate you can practice in all 50 states. Also SGU has a cool global scholars program where you can actually do your first year in the UK (but as of now you cannot practice in Cali or NJ after you graduate from this program).

 

[hopefool]

Texas-

I wasnt saying that being a caribbean MD would give you an advantage over a US DO, I was merely trying to feel out what the actual disadvantages of being a caribbean MD were. I feel that a caribbean MD would be at some real disadvantages to US DOs, however these disadvantages could be mitigated. I am still of the mind to get underway in my career and feel that caribbean schools are a very lucrative option with amenable disadvantages.

US MDs and DOs will always have the upper hand at getting residencies when scores are equal and or in favor of the caribbean MD.

People do seem to think that the caribbean islands are not a good place to study or learn medicine. For me I would shy towards the contrary and think that they would be a good place with minimal distractions. The time there is only two years anyway.

You are definitely right about the US schools working with their students and the caribbean ones being more profit-oriented, but I was always, and still am, self taught so again I dont know how big of a disadvantage this would generate.

Advantages? If you actually graduate, I'd imagine that a Caribbean MD and a US DO and US MD would all be about the same. As long as the Caribbean MD went to one of the big ones, and not one of the ones that is apparently blacklisted in a bunch of states.

I'd say the biggest difference is that US medical schools work with their students to help them pass. The Caribbean schools work to weed out the idiots. Basically, they take people who they don't feel can cut it, and take their money. Then, when they've got that, they push them out so that they don't hurt their stats.

Why someone would want to go to freaking Grenada to go to medical school is beyond my comprehension. The idea that it would give you an advantage over a DO, just because you're an MD, is a construct of the pre-med imagination.

 

[Isoprop]

man, when i read your post, the first thing i thought of was SMP. getting to a 2.75 (min for EVMS) gpa, a decent mcat score, and getting close to 4.0 in your smp might be a good way to get into med school.

hypothetical timeline

jan to june 2008 - study for mcat
summer 2008 - take mcat
late 2008 - spring 2009 - apply to SMP, possible mcat retake in january if score is below 30
summer 2009 - apply md/do schools, finish post-bacc work
fall 2009 - finish secondaries before you start smp, interview invites, etc.

in my opinion, carrib should be considered after your mcat (<24 your second time).
we're similiar ages so im rooting for you. good luck!

 

[hopefool]

Its not that I dont want the DO degree, I simply want to get my career underway. When one goes to the caribbean for approximately the first two years, you said Ross goes to Miami, but are there other options? Do all the Ross students go to Miami? or do some go to NY, some to Arizona etc.

What kind of breaks do you get in medical school? Are your summers off?

How does the faculty and the native population live on the island of Dominica if there are all these problems?

Hopefool-

at Ross you don't actually spend 2 years on the island, I believe it is only 16 months...at SGU you spend 2 years (but get longer breaks). At Ross you go to Miami after the 16 months and then you have to set up your own rotations.

I would be weary of the Island of Dominica (where Ross is). You say your studying wont be effected now. What if you contract Dengue Fever (aka bone breaking fever), there is an epidemic on the island there now. Also I spoke to a friend of mine who was visiting her boy friend there for about 3 months- she told me that there are so many mosquitos on the island she can't differentiate between sun burn and mosquito bites(how dengue fever is transmitted). Honestly I can go on and on about the quality of life there because I know personally a bunch of graduates. So if you want to hear any other "horror" stories just PM me and I will give you some of my personal favorites.

Also- I get the impression Grenada (where SGU) is is much nicer. They even have a night club and a movie theater on the island. They also have much better clinical opportunities than any other Carib school. They seem to actually care where their students rotate and eventually match.



In my experience most pre-meds think DO is the way to GO, lol that rhymed. But hey if you don't want the DO degree you dont want it. Me I am so excited to be a DO.

 

[sexyman]

The breaks for each school are different. SGU has summers off that is why they are there for 2 years and Ross for 16 months because their breaks are very short. All Ross students go to Miami first for something (I think it might be 3rd year rotations) whatever it is they go to Miami, then they can set their rotations up from there. For example your 4th year rotations you might be able to set something up near your home.

As for the natives, these are 3rd world countries man, they dont even know the difference (not to be mean)....as for the faculty I am going to give you a great quote coming from an interviewer to one of my friends (I hope she doesnt see this lol) "All of the US faculty are teaching at SGU because they were either chasing too much skirt or hitting the bottle too hard in the states." lol I thought that was great.

I am only speaking of Ross in terms of what the island is like. I mean some of the other islands are tourist spots! Isnt AUC on St. Marten or something? It is probably gorgeous there.

 

[hopefool]

Haha, chasing too much tail in the student body? that is too funny.

Yea, youre right about the 3rd world country thing. I hope someday to be able to take "vacations" in Africa or other underprivileged areas, where physicians are needed, as in the doctors abroad program.

Yea, AUC is on St Marten so thats cool. I want to find out more about the actual scheduling of medical school. I would really like to be able to take my first two years in the caribbean and then be able to finish up my 3rd and 4th years, rotations, in hospitals near my home, in NYC. The appeal of Ross is that 16 months stretch, but then they go to Miami, so perhaps that is not what I am looking for.

I hear that there are programs also that are catered to getting you into some schools. Ross, for instance I think has a pre-med program that, if you do well you can matriculate right into the next class only months after completion! Does anyone know anything about these programs?

The breaks for each school are different. SGU has summers off that is why they are there for 2 years and Ross for 16 months because their breaks are very short. All Ross students go to Miami first for something (I think it might be 3rd year rotations) whatever it is they go to Miami, then they can set their rotations up from there. For example your 4th year rotations you might be able to set something up near your home.

As for the natives, these are 3rd world countries man, they dont even know the difference (not to be mean)....as for the faculty I am going to give you a great quote coming from an interviewer to one of my friends (I hope she doesnt see this lol) "All of the US faculty are teaching at SGU because they were either chasing too much skirt or hitting the bottle too hard in the states." lol I thought that was great.

I am only speaking of Ross in terms of what the island is like. I mean some of the other islands are tourist spots! Isnt AUC on St. Marten or something? It is probably gorgeous there.

 

[sexyman]

If you want to rotate in NYC then SGU is the way to go (although they are harder to get into).

This is why-

http://www.sgu.edu/website/sguwebsite.nsf/news-events/news-archives07-HHC.html

They are basically trying to monopolize training site for their students; and doing a good job of it. Basically the only carib students allowed to rotate at HHC hospitals are SGU grads.

I think SGU has one of those programs your talking about- read their website.