Getting rejected due to above average stats

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KingOTNorth

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I heard that DO schools reject a lot of people that have good stats because they are afraid those students will not enroll. How can one appeal to DO schools more so it doesn't happen? I'm afraid I'll get rejected from all schools because I'm competitive for DO and barely competitive for MD.
 
They don't necessarily reject them based on above average numbers. They reject because the applicant hasn't shown the interest in osteopathic medicine as much as some w/ average numbers have. So shadowing an osteopathic physician and be able to articulate why you want to be an osteopathic physician.
 
KingOTNorth said:
I heard that DO schools reject a lot of people that have good stats because they are afraid those students will not enroll. How can one appeal to DO schools more so it doesn't happen? I'm afraid I'll get rejected from all schools because I'm competitive for DO and barely competitive for MD.
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Change up the personal statement a little bit for MD/DO application. It would help to appeal in the personal statement somewhere that you know what DO philosophies are and why you are interested. Shadowing is a must & LOR from DO is highly suggested. Apply broadly across all MD/DO schools.
 
Also timing is pretty important. If you apply to DO schools in June then obviously you are serious. If you stroll in around December/January, after getting no love from MD schools, and all of the sudden praise osteopathic medicine, they will see right through that.

Every year around this time MD failure applicants start to panic and come knocking at the DO door. I am not saying you are one of them, I am saying that timing is key.
 
KingOTNorth said:
I heard that DO schools reject a lot of people that have good stats because they are afraid those students will not enroll. How can one appeal to DO schools more so it doesn't happen? I'm afraid I'll get rejected from all schools because I'm competitive for DO and barely competitive for MD.
Click to expand...
per Goro, the higher the numbers, the better.
 
sameharu1991 said:
Change up the personal statement a little bit for MD/DO application. It would help to appeal in the personal statement somewhere that you know what DO philosophies are and why you are interested. Shadowing is a must & LOR from DO is highly suggested. Apply broadly across all MD/DO schools.
Click to expand...

Will it look be looked down upon if I started shadowing a DO physician 6 months before I apply?
 
ToonLink said:
They don't necessarily reject them based on above average numbers. They reject because the applicant hasn't shown the interest in osteopathic medicine as much as some w/ average numbers have. So shadowing an osteopathic physician and be able to articulate why you want to be an osteopathic physician.
Click to expand...
applicants with low, average, mediocre, or stellar numbers all have the same expectation alike to possess some knowlege about osteopathic medicine.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Also timing is pretty important. If you apply to DO schools in June then obviously you are serious. If you stroll in around December/January, after getting no love from MD schools, and all of the sudden praise osteopathic medicine, they will see right through that.

Every year around this time MD failure applicants start to panic and come knocking at the DO door. I am not saying you are one of them, I am saying that timing is key.
Click to expand...

That makes a lot of sense. I was planning on applying as early as possible. Is it bad that I will only apply to three DO schools because the rest are too far or should I add a few more distant ones into the mix?
 
KingOTNorth said:
Will it look be looked down upon if I started shadowing a DO physician 6 months before I apply?
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Hmm. I don't think so. You can continue shadowing throughout the cycle as well. In my case, I also shadowed relatively late (about 6 months before applying) but I shadowed 2-3 DOs and got an LOR from one toward 2 months into application cycle.
 
I guess it depends on your stats and experiences and stuff. I will say that I was very surprised how my cycle went. A few of the schools that I thought I had no shot at, showed me some love. The schools where I really thought I had a shot at because of location and my secondaries and stuff, gave me nothing. The whole thing is a crap shoot. Best to play the numbers game if you have the money to spare. After you have interviews and acceptances, then you can be picky.

I have a 3.6, balanced 28 MCAT, a crap ton of research experience, some clinical experience, good shadowing, a DO letter, etc. I applied in June to 10 schools ( a mix of top, mid and low tier DO). By september I had 5 interviews and by October I had 2 acceptances in hand - one to a very reputable old school, one to a new school. I took the acceptance to the good old school and withdrew my application and called my cycle done.

So take that for what its worth. If you have better stats and experiences then you can apply less. If your stats are worse then maybe apply to 10 or more. In hindsight I would have only applied to 8 schools - 2 of the schools on my list I would never have attended under pretty much any circumstance (except if they were my only acceptance). I consider myself a very average applicant (stat wise) so you can use my example to judge where you are at.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
I guess it depends on your stats and experiences and stuff. I will say that I was very surprised how my cycle went. A few of the schools that I thought I had no shot at, showed me some love. The schools where I really thought I had a shot at because of location and my secondaries and stuff, gave me nothing. The whole thing is a crap shoot. Best to play the numbers game if you have the money to spare. After you have interviews and acceptances, then you can be picky.

I have a 3.6, balanced 28 MCAT, a crap ton of research experience, some clinical experience, good shadowing, a DO letter, etc. I applied in June to 10 schools ( a mix of top, mid and low tier DO). By september I had 5 interviews and by October I had 2 acceptances in hand - one to a very reputable old school, one to a new school. I took the acceptance to the good old school and withdrew my application and called my cycle done.

So take that for what its worth. If you have better stats and experiences then you can apply less. If your stats are worse then maybe apply to 10 or more. In hindsight I would have only applied to 8 schools - 2 of the schools on my list I would never have attended under pretty much any circumstance (except if they were my only acceptance). I consider myself a very average applicant (stat wise) so you can use my example to judge where you are at.
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My sGPA will actually be a 3.52 but that's because I started with a 2.93 freshman year and average a 3.75 the past three years. cGPA is closer to a 3.7. MCAT was 29 but retaking because it was lower than I expected. I have about 6 months experience in a psych lab, I'll have 9 months doing data entry in a bio lab, about 150 hours volunteering at a hospital over 2 years, and hopefully 150 hours shadowing by the time I apply. I know my XCs are below average so I'm worried it doesn't balance out my academic performance.
 
If your goal is DO school then you absolutely do NOT have to retake the MCAT. You are just about at the average for GPA and MCAT at even some of the stronger DO programs (think CCOM, PCOM, DMU, KCUMB).

For reals, you are golden for DO. You shadow a DO and get a letter and then apply to like 5 schools early and you are guarantee in.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
If your goal is DO school then you absolutely do NOT have to retake the MCAT. You are just about at the average for GPA and MCAT at even some of the stronger DO programs (think CCOM, PCOM, DMU, KCUMB).

For reals, you are golden for DO. You shadow a DO and get a letter and then apply to like 5 schools early and you are guarantee in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reassurance. I'm gonna go HAM shadowing next semester and working on my application. However, I still wanna try my luck with some MD schools just because of location. The only DO schools near me are PCOM and NYCOM. Meanwhile there are about 10-15 (low-tier) MD schools that are in the same range.
 
I highly doubt that routinely happens.

This is anecdotal, but I had an above average GPA and MCAT for all DO schools and received interviews for all the DO schools I applied to and acceptances from all interviews I attended. If you've shadowed a DO (I actually didn't but had a letter) and have a solid, personal, and convincing answer for "Why DO?" you'll be fine. You're not going to get rejected because you have good stats. As stated above, apply early and not as a backup.
 
KingOTNorth said:
I heard that DO schools reject a lot of people that have good stats because they are afraid those students will not enroll. How can one appeal to DO schools more so it doesn't happen? I'm afraid I'll get rejected from all schools because I'm competitive for DO and barely competitive for MD.
Click to expand...
lol ... There is no such thing.
 
KingOTNorth said:
Thanks for the reassurance. I'm gonna go HAM shadowing next semester and working on my application. However, I still wanna try my luck with some MD schools just because of location. The only DO schools near me are PCOM and NYCOM. Meanwhile there are about 10-15 (low-tier) MD schools that are in the same range.
Click to expand...
Gotcha, sounds like a plan then. Good luck, you seem to have your head on straight. Just keep working hard and being proactive and planning well and you will absolutely hear from somewhere.
 
user3 said:
applicants with low, average, mediocre, or stellar numbers all have the same expectation alike to possess some knowlege about osteopathic medicine.
Click to expand...

You are right, thanks for expanding on it!
 
I wouldn't think that would be a problem. I had to shadow in the two months leading up to submitting my primary application because there was no feasible way to do it otherwise. My area does not have many DO's and required my driving 140 miles round trip per day to do the shadowing so it was just not possible while going to school full time. This issue was never raised at any of my interviews.
KingOTNorth said:
Will it look be looked down upon if I started shadowing a DO physician 6 months before I apply?
Click to expand...
 
DrEnderW said:
I highly doubt that routinely happens.

This is anecdotal, but I had an above average GPA and MCAT for all DO schools and received interviews for all the DO schools I applied to and acceptances from all interviews I attended. If you've shadowed a DO (I actually didn't but had a letter) and have a solid, personal, and convincing answer for "Why DO?" you'll be fine. You're not going to get rejected because you have good stats. As stated above, apply early and not as a backup.
Click to expand...

How can I show that I am committed to DO if I am also applying to MD?
 
KingOTNorth said:
How can I show that I am committed to DO if I am also applying to MD?
Click to expand...

I applied probably 80% MD and 20% DO. I was asked at multiple DO interviews if I was applying MD as well, likely because of my stats and I also had a lot of research with publications.

I answered something along the lines of, "I know how competitive medical school applications are and this has been a humbling experience. My #1 goal is to become a physician and I want to maximize those chances. I want to pick the school that is the best fit for me, be that MD or DO. The reason I'm here today is because I think "school x" is that school and after what I've seen so far, it is a top choice." I believe I got the why osteopathic question eventually too.

You'll be asked "why DO" or something to that affect on most secondaries. Give a personal answer that incorporates your experiences. Tie those experiences to the "osteopathic principles" you can find on the AOA site. If you have experience with a DO, that helps as well. You don't need anything crazy, just a passionate, believable answer.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Also timing is pretty important. If you apply to DO schools in June then obviously you are serious. If you stroll in around December/January, after getting no love from MD schools, and all of the sudden praise osteopathic medicine, they will see right through that.

Every year around this time MD failure applicants start to panic and come knocking at the DO door. I am not saying you are one of them, I am saying that timing is key.
Click to expand...

What if we have not applied to any MD schools but are still applying to DO schools late. Obviously there is no way of telling initially if an applicant has tried MD schools, so do most assume that if we have lower scores (26) and are applying late it's because DO is our backup (which is not the case for me, I genuinely want to go to osteopathic).
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Get shadowing experience and/or a letter from a DO. That is a good way to tell them that you are serious about osteopathic medicine.
Click to expand...

Or seem like your serious haha. Many just think it's another hoop to go through.
 
MetricSystem said:
I was just pointing it out... It's not an attack against you but some do say Machiavelli didn't say that.
Click to expand...

hmm never heard that, interesting though. It comes from the prince, seemed fitting he would say it in the context of all his other advice.
 
breezy124 said:
hmm never heard that, interesting though. It comes from the prince, seemed fitting he would say it in the context of all his other advice.
Click to expand...

FYI, I almost have no idea who Machiavelli is and I don't really care much...
It was just a google search.
There is a reason I never took beyond Philosophy 101 in undergrad...
 
MetricSystem said:
FYI, I almost have no idea who Machiavelli is and I don't really care much...
It was just a google search.
There is a reason I never took beyond Philosophy 101 in undergrad...
Click to expand...
Actually, I learned about him in my freshman (required) english class haha..
 
Breezy I won't even validate your comment based on other posts elsewhere.

My advice is legit. If you want to seem like a strong DO applicant. This is what you do:
1) have good grades and MCAT (you have that)
2) apply early to DO schools (shows it's equal to MD for you and not just a backup after you failed at getting into an MD school)
3) shadow a DO and get a DO letter of recommendation (sounds like you are working on it)
4) have a thing or two to say about osteopathic medicine, preferably based on a shadowing experience or something (so a legit interest and not just a read off of the Wikipedia page). This will come up in secondaries and interviews.

To the OP you seem like a bright fellow and I respect you for considering both MD and DO schools. You are a perfectly normal applicant who just wants to be a doctor. Just stay the course, don't worry about it at all, you will get some love from somewhere.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Breezy I won't even validate your comment based on other posts elsewhere.

My advice is legit. If you want to seem like a strong DO applicant. This is what you do:
1) have good grades and MCAT (you have that)
2) apply early to DO schools (shows it's equal to MD for you and not just a backup after you failed at getting into an MD school)
3) shadow a DO and get a DO letter of recommendation (sounds like you are working on it)
4) have a thing or two to say about osteopathic medicine, preferably based on a shadowing experience or something (so a legit interest and not just a read off of the Wikipedia page). This will come up in secondaries and interviews.

To the OP you seem like a bright fellow and I respect you for considering both MD and DO schools. You are a perfectly normal applicant who just wants to be a doctor. Just stay the course, don't worry about it at all, you will get some love from somewhere.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day that is what its all about. However, I will stop short of the Caribbean route. Thanks for the advice and the encouragement.
 
KingOTNorth said:
I heard that DO schools reject a lot of people that have good stats because they are afraid those students will not enroll. How can one appeal to DO schools more so it doesn't happen? I'm afraid I'll get rejected from all schools because I'm competitive for DO and barely competitive for MD.
Click to expand...
You obviously should just take some classes and purposely make some C's and B's in them so you can get on our level.

In all seriousness, though, I have had classmates who got into DO schools with exceptionally high stats. I think the whole "you don't get into DO schools if your stats are too high" is just fabricated by those who got rejected secondary to their awful socialization skills that present themselves during interviews.

But that's just my personal opinion.
 
KingOTNorth said:
Will it look be looked down upon if I started shadowing a DO physician 6 months before I apply?
Click to expand...
I started DO shadowing 1.5 months after I submitted DO application because I could not find any DO to shadow earlier; still got in DO. As long as you are genuine interest in DO, you are fine.
 
You heard wrong. And send an app to my school.

KingOTNorth said:
I heard that DO schools reject a lot of people that have good stats because they are afraid those students will not enroll. How can one appeal to DO schools more so it doesn't happen? I'm afraid I'll get rejected from all schools because I'm competitive for DO and barely competitive for MD.
Click to expand...

No.
Will it look be looked down upon if I started shadowing a DO physician 6 months before I apply?

By shadowing a DO and getting a LOR from same. Also, being able to discuss Osteopathy without vomiting up whatever you read on Wikipedia.
How can I show that I am committed to DO if I am also applying to MD?

Right about early March we see an uptick in the stats of people we interview. We know that these are people who applied MD, didn't get in, and and now flailing about for a seat in DO schools. They tend to be worse interviewees because, frankly, somethings a little off about them...maybe time management, or expectations.

So if you're coming to Osteopathy honestly, but lately, don't worry. We know the game. Just walk the walk in addition to talk the talk.
What if we have not applied to any MD schools but are still applying to DO schools late. Obviously there is no way of telling initially if an applicant has tried MD schools, so do most assume that if we have lower scores (26) and are applying late it's because DO is our backup (which is not the case for me, I genuinely want to go to osteopathic).
 
Last edited:
@Awesome Sauceome
C'mon man, that's not cool. it's a different thread/topic and different users. The previous one was annoying me as much as it was probably annoying you.

I am justing saying it's a game either way, MD or DO. With DO, you just have to show you invested yourself in it - whether that means you actually mean it or not is irrelevant.

I see DO students here talk smack about OMM all the time. Do you really think they said those same things during their interview?
 
You could also just be honest in interviews and tell them you believe both are equivalent and your end goal is to become a physician. It might hurt you at some places but hey, at least your being honest right?

If you have good stats you should get in somewhere. Unless it's LUCOM and you don't want to re-apply, then I would never suggest carribean.
 
KingOTNorth said:
I heard that DO schools reject a lot of people that have good stats because they are afraid those students will not enroll. How can one appeal to DO schools more so it doesn't happen? I'm afraid I'll get rejected from all schools because I'm competitive for DO and barely competitive for MD.
Click to expand...
Why does this stupid myth keep going on? My class has people with 39s on their MCAT.
 
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