Getting That Social

[Algophiliac]

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So I sat in on a discussion with a surgeon today, and the people there were ALL extremely extremely good conversationalists. The entire room was practically vibrating with confidence, self-assurance, and honed leadership skills. How did they get this social?

I didn't feel like I was surrounded by shy college students at all...but rather that I was ALREADY sitting in on a real patient case or something. It was unnerving to realize how far I still need to go. 🙁 Sometimes I'm afraid this will hold me back not only in medicine, but in any career path I choose.

So, I've asked similar questions before and am now wondering if anyone has personal stories similar to mine. Has anyone ever been in this position before? What did you, personally, do about it?

EDIT: Also, I found that the surgeon himself was a VERY normal, successful guy. Somehow I expected someone old and bitter and fat...but that was definitely not the case here. And he was healthy and happy. I don't know why that came as such a shock.

 

[FlowRate]

I thought this once.. what did I do? I started talking to people. This might sound like a smartass reply, but you should try doing that, too!

 

[dia009]

So I sat in on a discussion with a surgeon today, and the people there were ALL extremely extremely good conversationalists. The entire room was practically vibrating with confidence, self-assurance, and honed leadership skills. How did they get this social?

I didn't feel like I was surrounded by shy college students at all...but rather that I was ALREADY sitting in on a real patient case or something. It was unnerving to realize how far I still need to go. 🙁 Sometimes I'm afraid this will hold me back not only in medicine, but in any career path I choose.

So, I've asked similar questions before and am now wondering if anyone has personal stories similar to mine. Has anyone ever been in this position before? What did you, personally, do about it?

EDIT: Also, I found that the surgeon himself was a VERY normal, successful guy. Somehow I expected someone old and bitter and fat...but that was definitely not the case here. And he was healthy and happy. I don't know why that came as such a shock.

toastmaster!
hey, i didn't even speak english until i was 14, and now i'm kind of funny, sometimes, just sometimes.

 

[shouldvestudied]

I used to be an incredibly introverted kid. Then I started working as a bag boy at a golf course. You'd be surprised how fast your conversational abilities grow when your tip depends on your capacity to make people laugh for the less than 2 minutes you're carrying their bags from the car to the cart. But I'm not saying that you should get a job that forces you to interact with people. Just spend more time talking to people. Reading (both fiction and non-fiction) has also helped me to become a better conversationalist.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

It comes pretty natural with age. As you become exposed to more and more situations you just naturally learn to be more social. If you threw that same group of people you mentioned in your post, into a room when they were 19 or 20, it would have looked much different.

My philosophy is to just always think "what would I say if I was drunk". Works every time, you'll be a great conversationalist pronto. Drunk people can carry a conversation any time and with anyone.

 

[ucladoc2b]

So I sat in on a discussion with a surgeon today, and the people there were ALL extremely extremely good conversationalists. The entire room was practically vibrating with confidence, self-assurance, and honed leadership skills. How did they get this social?

I didn't feel like I was surrounded by shy college students at all...but rather that I was ALREADY sitting in on a real patient case or something. It was unnerving to realize how far I still need to go. 🙁 Sometimes I'm afraid this will hold me back not only in medicine, but in any career path I choose.

So, I've asked similar questions before and am now wondering if anyone has personal stories similar to mine. Has anyone ever been in this position before? What did you, personally, do about it?

EDIT: Also, I found that the surgeon himself was a VERY normal, successful guy. Somehow I expected someone old and bitter and fat...but that was definitely not the case here. And he was healthy and happy. I don't know why that came as such a shock.

Agree with the above posts that it comes with time. Also, though I cannot confirm this from your post, I would assume that all of these surgeons are coworkers and have worked with each other for quite some time and probably have a high level of interpersonal comfort.

Don't worry. Go interact with friends, strangers, anyone. It will come with time.

 

[20minutes]

My philosophy is to just always think "what would I say if I was drunk".

Best, and worst, advice ever.

 

[flip26]

So I sat in on a discussion with a surgeon today, and the people there were ALL extremely extremely good conversationalists. The entire room was practically vibrating with confidence, self-assurance, and honed leadership skills. How did they get this social?

I didn't feel like I was surrounded by shy college students at all...but rather that I was ALREADY sitting in on a real patient case or something. It was unnerving to realize how far I still need to go. 🙁 Sometimes I'm afraid this will hold me back not only in medicine, but in any career path I choose.

So, I've asked similar questions before and am now wondering if anyone has personal stories similar to mine. Has anyone ever been in this position before? What did you, personally, do about it?

EDIT: Also, I found that the surgeon himself was a VERY normal, successful guy. Somehow I expected someone old and bitter and fat...but that was definitely not the case here. And he was healthy and happy. I don't know why that came as such a shock.

For most of the people who do this effortlessly, it comes naturally, but it is also honed by practice.

You are correct that it could hold you back, no matter what field you pursue.

If it doesn't come naturally for you, you really need to throw yourself into social situations - parties, classroom discussions, etc.

 

[FlowRate]

My philosophy is to just always think "what would I say if I was drunk".

Can I quote you on that? 😀

 

[jvesco22]

No, it doesn't come with time...There are 15 year olds that are 10x more social than 30 year olds.

Becoming social doesn't depend on time, but instead on the situations; situations that you put yourself in.

If you are the one to shy away from conversations or get nervous in front of pretty girls, do you really think that's going to change when a couple of years go by?

Consider it a habit. You have to change your habits. Whenever you walk by someone, smile and say Hello, regardless if they reply back(if they don't, **** em.) Whenever you're waiting in line somewhere, feel free to spark up a convo with the person in front or behind you, but don't come off as a yapper(someone who talks WAYYYY too much.) When you start a new class, introduce yourself immediately to the people sitting next to you. There is nothing more akward than waiting for lecture to start and you and your neighbors are avoiding eye contact, looking in the air, pretending that you guys don't want/need to talk to each other.

One thing that really helps though is talking to pretty girls(or girls in general if there aren't that many in your area 🙂.) Once you are able to strike up conversations with girls, it will be 10x easier to start up a conversation with an average joe.

Like I said before, I think time has nothing to do with it. It all depends on you putting yourself in situations to socialize, regardless of your age or the age of the person you are conversing with.

Always remember. People LOVE to talk about themselves. You can have a great conversation if you ask questions that elicit an actual response, instead of a Yes or No. After a few minutes of open-ended questions, you can get a feel for that person's interests/passions and you can ask more open-ended questions.

Good luck!

 

[Potatoman1800]

Read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. It's a book on how to pick up women by talking to them using stories/interesting questions/mind games etc, but it can be easily applied to anything that involves talking to anyone in any setting, even high pressure situations. However, dont think youre going to be a Casanova. You need practice. Do what jvesco said to do; talk to cashiers, waiters, people at school events, bars --> WHEREVER YOU ARE!

Just sack up, dont be afraid and TALK! Because remember, if you're going to pursue this profession, you're going to have to deal with very difficult issues, such as telling someone they are going to die in the next year, or that they have cancer etc...You need to be comfortable with yourself and the way you present your personality.

Dont forget: Be CONFIDENT!!

 

[DrYoda]

My philosophy is to just always think "what would I say if I was drunk".

Ok, this has now become my favorite SDN quote ever.👍

 

[BBender716]

ok, this has now become my favorite sdn quote ever.👍

+1!!!

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

No, it doesn't come with time...There are 15 year olds that are 10x more social than 30 year olds.

Becoming social doesn't depend on time, but instead on the situations; situations that you put yourself in.

If you are the one to shy away from conversations or get nervous in front of pretty girls, do you really think that's going to change when a couple of years go by?

No, but those situations occur over time. I didn't mean you would become a very social person by sitting in your parents basement alone playing video games all day. I meant that through the normal interactions most people have, you should be able to develop your skills.

 

[CoolWhipp]

Experience in life makes you more confident, not necessarily age. There is a "natural progression" to be more confident as you age, but amongst 20 year olds many actually haven't lived much.

 

[muhali3]

If you want to be social, you have to force yourself. Shy people aren't because they're scared that they're being judged or that they'll say something stupid. You have to get over that fear by practicing and realizing that people like to listen to what you have to say. It's like learning how to ride a bike, initially you might make some mistakes and feel dumb, but after a while you'll get used to it and be glad that you learned a new skill.

 

[BlitzSleep]

So I sat in on a discussion with a surgeon today, and the people there were ALL extremely extremely good conversationalists. The entire room was practically vibrating with confidence, self-assurance, and honed leadership skills. How did they get this social?

Because:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAxq_OdAbl4[/youtube]

 

[FlowRate]

Read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. It's a book on how to pick up women by talking to them using stories/interesting questions/mind games etc, but it can be easily applied to anything that involves talking to anyone in any setting, even high pressure situations. However, dont think youre going to be a Casanova. You need practice. Do what jvesco said to do; talk to cashiers, waiters, people at school events, bars --> WHEREVER YOU ARE!

Just sack up, dont be afraid and TALK! Because remember, if you're going to pursue this profession, you're going to have to deal with very difficult issues, such as telling someone they are going to die in the next year, or that they have cancer etc...You need to be comfortable with yourself and the way you present your personality.

Dont forget: Be CONFIDENT!!

The Game isn't a very good book for actually learning game. It's a fascinating memoir and might actually make you NOT want to learn game if you read it to the end. Very much a Journey more than the End sort of thing.

However, Be confident is the #1 best advice ever for anything. You can't teach confidence and it can't be learned. That's just the appearance of confidence. Inner confidence comes from a conscious change in thought and behavior.

 

[Noirukiddingme]

Firstly, I don't think that you need to become "social" to be a good doctor. You will need to learn how to talk with people, both patients and colleagues. Some people are inherently extroverted and social, and that's just not how I am (either). However, when you get to med school, at least at mine, you will probably be taking courses that force you into interactions with patients and colleagues to force students to learn how to become comfortable talking with anyone. I think it is similar to how M3 and M4's and residents talk about learning to grow thick skin. It kinda just happens over time in med school, with more work for some than others. However, if you can learn how to become a better conversationalist, then go for it, but don't fret about it, you'll be fine learn how to converse when you are forced to do it.

 

[Exalya]

I learned a lot when I went to a trade school to be an auctioneer. I'm not the kind you'd expect--I'm normally soft-spoken, quiet, keep generally to myself. However, in auctioneering school they tell you to "put on the mask of the auctioneer." It's about believing in yourself and playing the part. I've found that it comes in handy when you need to appear confident and convince yourself to be outgoing... just step into the character. Helped in interviews, not to mention in front of bidders. 😛

 

[armybound]

Definitely confidence plays a large role. Comfort also does. Practice looking people in the eye. I found that I used to always look at the ground when I walked to avoid eye contact, but when you walk with your head up you can look people in the eye, tell them hello, and it's a little successful interaction that gives you confidence.

I think the hardest part of being a good conversationalist is simply having something to talk about. You have to find something in common with the person you're talking with and have something interesting to say. I don't watch a lot of TV (including sports), so I often miss out on a lot of conversations with my peers who are discussing some recent TV show and sports results and yadda yadda.

The good thing about medicine is you always have something to talk to your patients about. You have to learn good communication skills to be effective, though. Nobody wants a doctor who isn't confident enough to look them in the eye.

 

[NotSur]

.

 

[PinkIvy08]

I agree with NotSur. When I was younger, I was disinterested in striking up small talk with people I didn't truly care about. And I think that it's fine if that's your personality, as long as you don't come across completely anti-social. However, the many customer service-oriented jobs I've held have caused me to strike up conversations with a plethora of people from interesting backgrounds. After these jobs and life experiences, I realize most people are humorous (whether they realize it or not) and everyone has a story to tell...and now I love having random conversations with people! You can learn so much random stuff about them and the world, and you usually get a good laugh in too!

 

[jvesco22]

I guess I disagree with a lot of people in this post. You need to have the "ability to be social" to a certain degree but I don't think everyone needs to "be social" in order to be successful. People have different personalities and it's OK to be introverted as long as you don't freak people out by looking extremely nervous (shifting your weight, refusing to make eye contact, etc.) Some people just aren't that interested in talking to other people. It doesn't mean they don't care about other people or their health. Some people just like being by themselves a lot.

You're not really disagreeing with anyone. No one said you NEED to be social to be a successful. Everyone is giving their opinion on being social in general, which ultimately leads to more confidence.

 

[niblet]

Sometimes I'm afraid this will hold me back not only in medicine, but in any career path I choose.

Here's a quote from an older thread that I think is a good one and applies to your situation.

I think you will find that "people", aka those that you have to deal with everyday during life, are very different than "patients", aka the people you will treat as a doctor. For example, I don't like it when a stranger tries to strike up a conversation with me on the metro, in the gym, or even at a bar. I used to work as a waitress and generally found customers annoying. I get along well with people that I have close relationships with, but I'm generally just as happy having alone time with myself as I am surrounded by a group of friends. My friends generally view me as unfriendly towards most of the outside world.

However, when you're a doctor (or the medical student, pretending that you are the doctor), the patient is someone who you have a set and planned interaction with, if that makes sense. You have a role, and it is to go in to the room and find out what is wrong, ask the appropriate questions, do the physical exam, and then figure out an assessment and plan. Sure, it's great if you can make small talk with the patient, and it will definitely improve your relationship if you can do that, and aren't totally socially inept. But you're not there to make a new friend, and the whole game is in your ballpark, if you know what I mean. And it's like a game where you have to figure out what's wrong. It's totally different than everyday "annoying" interactions with people.

 

[FlowRate]

I would argue that sociability is absolutely necessary to be more than just a lower-paid doctor. Make connections, meet people, move up the ladder. None of that is possible if you can't even hold a darn conversation!

 

[niblet]

I would argue that sociability is absolutely necessary to be more than just a lower-paid doctor. Make connections, meet people, move up the ladder. None of that is possible if you can't even hold a darn conversation!

Not being social does not equate with not being able to hold a conversation.

 

[Algophiliac]

I hear so much advice about just being confident. But someone can't really fake confidence, and unless I'm discussing something in which I am extremely knowledgeable, I don't have any.

Even when I do feel the occasional burst of confidence, I prefer to be alone with my own plans. For example, everyone in college tries to gather a large group of people and room in nearby apartments. Although I feel left out, the honest truth is that I most likely wouldn't last long, because I need my own personal, private space. Rooming with friends won't give me that independence I crave. But maybe I need to rethink my values, as I now see how much teamwork medicine involves. I am beginning to fear loneliness and a tendency toward the anti-social can become a dangerous spiral.

PinkIvy08, I do find people interesting. But small talk is just small talk, and most of it does not involve the other person detailing his or her feelings or life story to me.

Also, I notice that when I talk with people, I respond to their nonverbal cues so much, it kills my confidence levels. Can anyone relate to this?

 

[schrizto]

Surgeons by nature are usually quite boisterous.

 

[crx7]

Confidence grows with experience and success. Don't get down on yourself. I was the same at your age. Now I'm a very outspoken person, but I still don't like to small talk and retreat to my own personal space sometimes. I suggest, always speak when you have something to say, not just for the sake of talking. Having something to say comes with experience, talking to people about their experiences, reading about people, and experiencing life yourself. It will come, just wait, live your life.

 

[FlowRate]

Not being social does not equate with not being able to hold a conversation.

Being able to hold a conversation (with a random person) is a prerequisite to being social.

 

[MsKrispyKreme]

Surgeons by nature are usually quite boisterous.

Right.

Surgeons tend to be the nerds that were actually popular in high school/college (e.g. joined fraternities/sororities, might've been jocks, attractive, etc.).

From observing my classmates as well as attendings, issues with socializing are quite common. Shadowing some pathologists or radiologists, and you'll probably feel overly social.

 

[RoyBasch]

Best, and worst, advice ever.

😀Seconded!

-Roy