Getting work as a DO

[thirdunity]

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Question I have...

I understand that becoming any kind of doctor, to a broke person like me (who is neither full ride scholarship material nor a disadvantaged majority), means taking out a lot of loans.

First off. Would the loans pay off all the schooling or would I still be scrambling.

Secondly - most important - would my work (post-residency) pay off my loans? Do DOs face a more difficult time finding work than other doctors or is it about the same?

 

[czanetti]

No they don't, it will take you many years to pay it off, I am in the same spot as you I'm not from a privlidged family nor a minority, but you take out loans, with a fixed interest, and eventually pay them off. You will not have it all paid off when you are done with residency.

 

[czanetti]

when you get accepted to a school talk to the financial aid office and they will go into more detail. You won't be living like a king but you will be ok. As a DO you won't have any trouble finding a job. Unless you are an idiot and a horrible doctor in that case you might have some trouble.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

No they don't, it will take you many years to pay it off, I am in the same spot as you I'm not from a privlidged family nor a minority, but you take out loans, with a fixed interest, and eventually pay them off. You will not have it all paid off when you are done with residency.

Hey C......should I smack them or do you want the honor?

 

[czanetti]

Hey C......should I smack them or do you want the honor?

True that Bro, I was tempted but I thought I would be polite

 

[BklynWill]

If you can stretch the maximum federal aid ($38K/yr) to work for you, then you won't need additional loans. With book, food, and rent fees, I don't see how that can be possible.

 

[WALKE219]

As I understand this is seemingly an actual question and not some bait, I will be polite. I guess since you are in here posting you have probably read threads as a premed. Before you apply for any type of school I think it would be wise to investigate the degree you are wishing to achieve. If you are in college, I would suggest going to a local hospital, ask for a list of physicians in a specialty you are interested in and find a DO. Once you find set DO, contact them and ask them about the degree, how their professional life has been (troubles, etc), and even if you can shadow them to see first hand. This is probably the most valued way to get the answers to the questions you seek. Now, using common sense and google, you can easily put your powers of observation to use and ascertain that DOs and MDs share practice rights and therefore share positions and pay equally. You will of course find less DOs... not because the other 90-95% of them are unemployed but because there are less schools and therefore only 5-10% of physicians are DOs at this time. In closing, please, for your own sake... Fully investigate any position that you are thinking about pursuing before you begin.

Most people who take out loans pay them back over many years. The residency years will probably not afford you the opportunity to have a clean slate. I would suggest finding the best value in school that fits you. As said above, 38k is the maximum amount in federal that you can get anyways so really try to make that work for you. Taking out additional always gums up the works. Finding a good value in school also includes the rent of surrounding communities, transportation, food costs, etc.. So it really comes down to making a solid plan for living for four years. Some people end up taking much less than the suggested because they budget really well.
Just some things to think about

 

[MossPoh]

is not a problem. After a point, the only way one can tell a difference between the two is if they actually tell you they are a DO or MD.....you get in the groove of just saying "doctor". DOs have a slight tendency towards more rural type areas. (Yes I know not always) There are scholarships that will pay off loans as long as you promise to work in an underserved area for a certain amount of time. (It can be inner city, although it is usually rural) These are usually primary care positions, with maybe emergency medicine and general surgery thrown in sometimes. You can also talk to hospitals that you know are hurting for docs and see if they can work out a deal with you. When I get to a certain point in my education I am supposed to go back to my old town and talk to hospital administration. They said they may offer to pay my loans if I go into a specialty they need and return there.....which for me isn't too bad. This hospital has a particularly difficult time recruiting and tend to get desperate trying to find people.

 

[group_theory]

As it stands right now, there is a HUGE shortage of physicians in all fields

If you want to see a specialist as an outpatient, try making an appointment and see if you can get one within the next month. If you talk to any primary care docs, they are overwhelmed with patients (and frustrated with paperwork and poor reimbursement). Once you are in residency, whether AOA or ACGME, headhunters will be sending you letters about job opportunities galore.



As to whether you can pay off your loans, it takes some financial education on your part ... not just on the cost of loans, but also some business savy. You need to understand some basics of contracts, how to run an independant business, or how group practices operates ... and decide which is best for you. Basically the more you take in loans now, the more you have to repay later.

It's not a DO or MD thing ... there are several MD schools who have tuitions much higher than DO schools ... and located in cities with higher cost of living than most places ... just having an MD won't protect them from the realities of business.

 

[MaximusD]

As it stands right now, there is a HUGE shortage of physicians in all fields

If you want to see a specialist as an outpatient, try making an appointment and see if you can get one within the next month. If you talk to any primary care docs, they are overwhelmed with patients (and frustrated with paperwork and poor reimbursement). Once you are in residency, whether AOA or ACGME, headhunters will be sending you letters about job opportunities galore.

BUT does that necessarily mean that hospitals are willing to pay additional subspecialists?? Be realistic... there may be a NEED for more specialists, but there is not always a market due to cost in any given hospital network. Will this keep a physician from getting work? NO! Will it keep one from getting a spot at any given place of desire? Possibly.

This is not the case for primary care which is lacking almost universally across the board and, in particular, in rural and inner-city settings.

 

[group_theory]

BUT does that necessarily mean that hospitals are willing to pay additional subspecialists?? Be realistic... there may be a NEED for more specialists, but there is not always a market due to cost in any given hospital network. Will this keep a physician from getting work? NO! Will it keep one from getting a spot at any given place of desire? Possibly.

Hospitals don't pay for specialists in most cases ... usually a specialists/group decide to work at a hospital (or several) and bill the patient (as source of their income). In most cases the group/specialists is more like an independant contractor working in a hospital ... with hospitals trying to entice more specialists/groups to come with offers (such as reduce overhead cost, excellent ancillary service, billing done by the hospital, etc) ... seldom do you have a simple employer-employee relationship ... and if you look at academic university hospitals, the relationship is more complicated due to private practices, tenured positions, part-timers, emeritus professors ... even then, who is employed by whom? is it the med school or hospital, or are they independent?

Healthcare economics is a complex field and and can sometime defy common sense and common everyday experience. As you go through your medical training ... if you show some interest in understanding how this all works, i'm sure some attendings will be more than willing to explain how their particular group is structured and how they are funded/paid ... and believe me, it's different with every group (even within the same hospital, let alone healthcare system) ... trust me, it will be valuable lesson that won't be tested on boards or shelf exams ... but will come in handy once you're done with all aspect of your formal education and looking for a job

 

[jkhamlin]

BUT does that necessarily mean that hospitals are willing to pay additional subspecialists?? Be realistic... there may be a NEED for more specialists, but there is not always a market due to cost in any given hospital network. Will this keep a physician from getting work? NO! Will it keep one from getting a spot at any given place of desire? Possibly.

This is not the case for primary care which is lacking almost universally across the board and, in particular, in rural and inner-city settings.

One of the nice things about the profession that we are going in to, we can find work anywhere we want, and live comfortably. 👍

 

[MossPoh]

Hospitals don't pay for specialists in most cases ... usually a specialists/group decide to work at a hospital (or several) and bill the patient (as source of their income). In most cases the group/specialists is more like an independant contractor working in a hospital ... with hospitals trying to entice more specialists/groups to come with offers (such as reduce overhead cost, excellent ancillary service, billing done by the hospital, etc) ... seldom do you have a simple employer-employee relationship ... and if you look at academic university hospitals, the relationship is more complicated due to private practices, tenured positions, part-timers, emeritus professors ... even then, who is employed by whom? is it the med school or hospital, or are they independent?

Healthcare economics is a complex field and and can sometime defy common sense and common everyday experience. As you go through your medical training ... if you show some interest in understanding how this all works, i'm sure some attendings will be more than willing to explain how their particular group is structured and how they are funded/paid ... and believe me, it's different with every group (even within the same hospital, let alone healthcare system) ... trust me, it will be valuable lesson that won't be tested on boards or shelf exams ... but will come in handy once you're done with all aspect of your formal education and looking for a job

Yea..my situation is really much more complicated. I just simplified it to "the hospital". There is also a desperate situation where I am.....we have two general surgeons, two urologists, two gi guys, and 3 rads (one locum) for about 80-100 thousand people....that isn't the size of the town but the surrounding area always comes here. So my situation is a little less common...the hospital is willing to do A LOT to get new guys to each group to keep the others from leaving.