Go to a US MD school with no MCAT, orgo, or physics!

[chman]

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If they don't get in they can do a top tier postbac and go to a different top med school. Not a bad deal really.

That is if money and time are expendable resources.

 

[DocBell]

Ugh just ugh. I like humanities classes too. Thats why I did a major in English Lit AND my premed requirements instead of trying to take the easy way out.

 

[Suenya]

I'm pretty sure I would do fine in medical school with no orgo or physics anyway. It's mostly a waste in terms of preparation for medical school classes, nevermind actual practice. If they think they can select good students that way, good for them.

Removing the discounting of those students who do take sciences or have research experience, and thinking about the various benefits of different class choices and experiences, I think we'd probably be fine if most schools went similarly.

The premed curriculum always has seemed really silly to me, even before I decided to apply. Same with the MCAT. I think everything relevant, except maybe the bio, can probably be learned in a week or two without much effort.

 

[drizzt3117]

That is if money and time are expendable resources.

Loans ftw, and what's a year? How many people take a year off or graduate in 5 years? There's no risk at all IMO.

 

[bobsmith]

People who can even apply for this program only have a shot for this program. We have a better chance getting into med school than they do.

I agree with one of the posts above...they can't get into any other medical school if Mt. Sinai doesn't take them. I'm applying to 17 schools...can you imagine applying to one?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does simply applying to this program make them ineligible for other schools?

I mean, you only have to sign the contract if you're accepted, so if someone doesn't get in, why can't they alter their schedule, take their pre-reqs, and apply the same time as everyone else (or maybe take a year off if necessary)? They're only sophomores when they apply so it's not like they don't have enough time.

 

[drizzt3117]

I've often said the best route to a top tier med school is a humanities major at an ivy followed by a top tier postbac.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

am i the only person here who actually enjoys science? i majored in one because i wanted to, not for med school.. if these people want to skip out, whatever, their loss, it's not my place to judge candidates anyway. seems like a dumb program, but whatever.

 

[toastedcheese]

If they don't get in they can do a top tier postbac and go to a different top med school. Not a bad deal really.

At least then they'd have to compete for a spot like everyone else. The good thing about the current system is everyone has to take these hard classes and do well, then work hard and get a good MCAT score. If you do that, it doesn't matter who your parents are or how fancy your school is. This program just seems like a way for rich, connected people to take some of the highly valued medical school spots without having to compete with us plebeians.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

My hypothesis:

If I were a medical student with an extensive science background and another medical student who never heard the word orgo during their undergrad ended up performing as well as I did/outperforming me, I would consider myself OWNED.

 

[drizzt3117]

My hypothesis:

If I were a medical student with an extensive science background and another medical student who never heard the word orgo during their undergrad ended up performing as well as I did/outperforming me, I would consider myself OWNED.

<shrug> I was a postbac after ug, didn't stop me from outperforming 93% of med students.

 

[EpicBearMan]

I think this program pretty much does the opposite of increasing diversity in medicine. It doesn't annoy me that the students don't have to take organic / physics / the MCAT, but I really get the impression that they turn down more qualified applicants for other people based on their parents' merits. The system is exploitable. With no MCAT and limited hard sciences, it is easier to justify rejecting another applicant to give the spot to a board member's daughter.

Does Mt. Sinai in general have this whole Ivy / connection fetish? Or is it just the HuMed program?

 

[drizzt3117]

how does admitting humanity majors not increasing diversity in medicine.

I think this program pretty much does the opposite of increasing diversity in medicine. It doesn't annoy me that the students don't have to take organic / physics / the MCAT, but I really get the impression that they turn down more qualified applicants for other people based on their parents' merits. The system is exploitable. With no MCAT and limited hard sciences, it is easier to justify rejecting another applicant to give the spot to a board member's daughter.

Does Mt. Sinai in general have this whole Ivy / connection fetish? Or is it just the HuMed program?

 

[fneverforget]

The competition for this program will be fierce. With The amount of hype built up by NY Times, on SDN, and on College Discussion, I wouldn't be surprised if 2X the amount of kids apply this year. I was going to apply, but then I found out that the 88-90 percent of the kids that are accepted come from the Ivy League. I have a decent gpa that is in their range, I had a 1520/1600 sat score, and I am a double major in English/History, but they probably wouldn't even consider interviewing me because I don't go to an Ivy League School (I go to Rice University)......🙁


Talk about Ivy League Prestigious ******.....


They don't want ivy league rejects like me. =)

 

[EpicBearMan]

how does admitting humanity majors not increasing diversity in medicine.

There's something to be said for socioeconomic and regional diversity. Limiting the selection to Ivy League undergrads and the children of doctors hardly helps in this area. Admitting humanities majors is good, but qualified humanities students can take the pre-reqs or do a post-bac and get accepted somewhere else without any real disadvantage.

 

[sonia1177]

fneverforget,

I am not applying but still felt like commenting 🙂 I don't know why but I feel like giving you a dose of encouragement. You seem to fit exactly what this program is looking for. Apply! You have a good shot!

 

[bigbad]

It's not that they're getting an easy way out or anything, good for them. But that's that many less seats that I'm explicitly excluded from applying for because I chose to study something that interests me enough to apply to med school. Feels bad man

 

[slowbutsteady]

I know people who have done this program and they are amazing and will be great doctors.

And I'm jealous that they avoided the pain of the MCAT.

But, honestly, I'm glad I was "forced" to take all those sciences, and even the MCAT. I feel that organic, physics, etc., have given me a deeper understanding of the human organism and medicine that will make for a richer career.

I think that you can certainly be a proficient doctor without the hard science, but I would prefer to GO to a doc who has taken them. And I would prefer to BE a doc who has taken them.

 

[Narmerguy]

Honestly, there is a lot of outrage because people don't feel that it is "fair." Even if this is only 30 spots, that means 30 less pre-meds will get in each year. It seems that spots are being constantly whittled away by programs like the kind that give lucky kids an automatic acceptance straight from high school (so long as they don't flunk out of college) or that let in academically under-qualified students if they take a summer course or are reserved for in-staters. When all these seats are added up, the number is huge.

Programs like these are good. They diversify the class and the field of medicine. Regardless, if you've been rejected, you may feel bitter about them. There may be the ugly thought hiding in your head that these people didn't work as hard as you (be it true or not), but still got a spot when you didn't. You may feel cheated and angry. Anyone who thinks that these opinions don't exist hasn't spent much time on SDN.

If SDN teaches us anything, it is that med school admissions are emotional.

PS: I'm a little insulted that the article sort of implies I'm inherently less humanistic, compassionate, and aware of the human side of medicine than someone with a humanities major.

PPS: If you want to diversify medicine, DON'T only accept people from ivys whose parents are doctors!

That's my point...why do people on SDN (and elsewhere) feel entitled to a spot for the work they do? Medical schools aren't obligated to accept a certain type of student, they can accept whomever they want and that's why we all work hard to turn ourselves into what we think will most closely align with what the adcoms want (or rather, some of us just do what we want and go to a school that wants that, which is a lot better in my opinion).

We aren't entitled to anything and I find it silly that people would be angry that some school has the gall to value something different than the MCAT and orgo/physics like every other school...especially when we consider it's a special subset within the school and not even the entire program.

 

[drizzt3117]

It's not that they're getting an easy way out or anything, good for them. But that's that many less seats that I'm explicitly excluded from applying for because I chose to study something that interests me enough to apply to med school. Feels bad man

30 out of 20000 seats? Boo hoo.

 

[littlealex]

They score lower on Step1 and go more into primary care.
Perhaps they're not going into primary care because they want to? This confounding variable definitely needs to be addressed before giving validity to this program.

 

[drizzt3117]

They're still scoring at the national average, and go to a r
top school. I doubt that's the case for most of them.

 

[chman]

They score lower on Step1 and go more into primary care.
Perhaps they're not going into primary care because they want to? This confounding variable definitely needs to be addressed before giving validity to this program.

I thought it said they are not going into primary care at a substantially higher level.

 

[softmed]

This is nothing new. Many, many schools have programs where out of high school you can get into medical school without MCAT or the application process. People will get acceptances around Freshman/Sophomore year of college and then they just need to maintain a 3.0 to go to medical school. I had a good friend who volunteered with me that did this.

 

[drizzt3117]

This is nothing new. Many, many schools have programs where out of high school you can get into medical school without MCAT or the application process. People will get acceptances around Freshman/Sophomore year of college and then they just need to maintain a 3.0 to go to medical school. I had a good friend who volunteered with me that did this.

There's relatively few that don't require the mcat and the required gpa is usually like 3.6, and they also have to take the prereqs.

 

[softmed]

There's relatively few that don't require the mcat and the required gpa is usually like 3.6, and they also have to take the prereqs.

I think it's actually changed recently. When I read it (something like 5 years ago) you just needed to maintain a 3.0 and have a 90% high school average. I think the 3.0 thing is still true, but now you also need something like a 1300 on your SAT and need to be disadvantaged.

 

[student1799]

I have mixed feelings about this program, from a student's perspective. Yes, it makes it a lot easier to get into med school, but I'd imagine it's a lot harder to hack it once you get there, because you won't be used to the pace and workload of premed classes, let alone med school.

I was an Ivy League humanities major myself, although I'm so old that this program didn't exist when I was in college. I did the basic sciences at a 2-year postbacc, and I'm going into my 2nd year of med school now. In hindsight, although it's certainly true that physics and orgo have very little to do with the med school curriculum, I think those courses were a very valuable education in how to be disciplined and work relentlessly to tackle tough material. The first year med school workload is a step up even from that level, but at least I had a good foundation going in.

If HuMed had existed in my college days and I had gotten in after just taking chem and bio, I think first year would have felt like getting hit with an oncoming train. A maglev train going about 150 miles an hour.

 

[Go Ducks]

That's my point...why do people on SDN (and elsewhere) feel entitled to a spot for the work they do? ...
We aren't entitled to anything

That may be your point, but it wasn't mine. I wasn't talking about entitlement.

 

[rrh9620]

The reason I voted "outraged" is that many of these students are ivy league. How are a bunch of kids from rich families who can afford to let their daughter travel to africa for the summer any different than the normal crowd? Let in some disadvantaged humanities majors then feature it in the NT times; this is actually just more of the same.

 

[slowbutsteady]

The reason I voted "outraged" is that many of these students are ivy league. How are a bunch of kids from rich families who can afford to let their daughter travel to africa for the summer any different than the normal crowd? Let in some disadvantaged humanities majors then feature it in the NT times; this is actually just more of the same.

Why does it seem to make people feel better about the fact that they do not attend an Ivy League school to say that all the students are "rich kids?"

It simply is not true. And it hasn't been true since the 1960s.

Ivy League schools give more financial aid than any other schools -- to minorities and non-minorities alike.

The admissions process is "need-blind" and, if you get in, they pledge to fully meet your need so ALL admitted students are able to attend.

Repeat: ALL ADMITTED STUDENTS CAN ATTEND HARVARD OR YALE, REGARDLESS OF FAMILY INCOME.

Even state schools can't say that!!!!

And several of them, not sure which, give only GRANTS, not loans. So there are many students with full rides who will have no debt upon graduation.

 

[Lokhtar]

Harvard has a $30bn endowment, and they use it to make sure you don't pay a dime if you get in and your family can't afford it. In fact, if your family makes less than a certain amount, it's completely free. Many other ivies do the same.

You'd have less loans coming out of Harvard than State U in most cases. And many of these programs and missions to undeveloped countries are completely free on top of that. If you want to go, you can find a program.

 

[Narmerguy]

That may be your point, but it wasn't mine. I wasn't talking about entitlement.

Whether or not that's what you're willing to call it, it's essentially what you're describing.

Harvard has a $30bn endowment, and they use it to make sure you don't pay a dime if you get in and your family can't afford it. In fact, if your family makes less than a certain amount, it's completely free. Many other ivies do the same.

You'd have less loans coming out of Harvard than State U in most cases. And many of these programs and missions to undeveloped countries are completely free on top of that. If you want to go, you can find a program.

The reason I voted "outraged" is that many of these students are ivy league. How are a bunch of kids from rich families who can afford to let their daughter travel to africa for the summer any different than the normal crowd? Let in some disadvantaged humanities majors then feature it in the NT times; this is actually just more of the same.

I don't understand this either. Harvard and the like are renowned for their financial aid pledges. That these students attend ivies says little about their income and much more about their performance out of high school.

Once again, why exactly are people outraged that some school prefers students from a specific group of schools? If a medical school has some reason that they prefer some other group of students, that's their prerogative. They don't owe us the same consideration as every other student...and this is coming from someone who most certainly does not attend an Ivy League school. They like Ivy they can have 'em.

 

[LaydeeDoc]

The NY Times reports on a little-known program that lets students get into Mount Sinai without taking any pre-med classes or the MCAT. You have to have a humanities major.

Some select quotes:



and another



Your thoughts?

I was so pissed when I read this....

 

[Rendar5]

eh, as an ivy leaguer science major having completed med school. meh =p good for them. physics is a waste of a class unless you're interested in it.

 

[xanthomondo]

Anyone else catch the second girl in the article? Daddy is on the Medical Center board, I wonder how she got accepted to the program?

That gets me more angry than allowing cushy majors to get through to med school.

 

[whatbout2morrow]

<shrug> I was a postbac after ug, didn't stop me from outperforming 93% of med students.

No no, that's not what I was getting at. To put it in another way, if these students are outperforming/performing the same as people with science backgrounds, near perfect GPAs and high MCATs, those students are not in any way "below" other medical students who got in with the said stats. On the contrary, I would think them to be the better performers in the end.

 

[mvenus929]

PS: I'm a little insulted that the article sort of implies I'm inherently less humanistic, compassionate, and aware of the human side of medicine than someone with a humanities major.

This. I did a history minor in college, but I liked biology more than any other subject group, so that's what I majored in. Does that make me a lesser human? Not inherently, and that's what this program is implying.

I guess one out of five students accepted has a physician for a parent (I don't know how that stacks up with other statistics). At any rate, it just seems a little...uppity. I can just picture some rich kid with no plan all of a sudden saying , "daddy, I think I want to go to med-school."

It's actually 1 in 5 nationwide, but 1 in 3 in the program.

I agree with one of the posts above...they can't get into any other medical school if Mt. Sinai doesn't take them. I'm applying to 17 schools...can you imagine applying to one?

They apply during or after their sophomore year. They can easily fit in the two additional pre-reqs and the MCAT and still apply on time, or with a single gap year.

Ugh just ugh. I like humanities classes too. Thats why I did a major in English Lit AND my premed requirements instead of trying to take the easy way out.

This is one of the reasons why the program is inherently unfair (not that I particularly care... I wouldn't have had a shot at it regardless). There are plenty of pre-meds who major in the humanities and still do all the requirements expected of a science major. This program just allows a handful of people to get away without taking those dreaded classes. But, they go into psychiatry at the end, so power to them 🙂