go to class or study for step 1?

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viostorm

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I'm in a MD medical school and I feel like our professors are doing a really bad job of preparing us for Step 1. I think the numbers reflect it with a school pass rate of 83% and 85% last two years (it has been hush hush because it is so bad, so that may even be high).

* I can "pass" classes by not going.
* I can't "honors" classes without going.

There is not enough time to study for step and class both.

My personal goal for Step 1 is 240.

Should I give up going to class and forget AOA but get a good step score or should I go for "honors" and possibly get a mediocre step score.

My career goal is a Top 25 Internal medicine residency.

Help me!
 
dude. get your class stuff down solid, even if it means self-study. once you get your class stuff down, you'll nail step 1 naturally. there really is no either/or.
 
YouDontKnowJack said:
dude. get your class stuff down solid, even if it means self-study. once you get your class stuff down, you'll nail step 1 naturally. there really is no either/or.

Thanks for the response, I forgot this:

I did an experiment where I quit going to class, I studied review books and class textbooks.

3 class exams: 78% -> 82% (Class average 82%)
NBME: 92% (class average 80%)

I just feel like what they are teaching is often inaccurate and not related to step 1. I honestly feel if I learned the material they want me to learn, it won't prepare me.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on this.
 
If your school's pass rate is that low, you'll probably get a better medical education in the long-term scheme of things by learning Step 1 material on your own.

What kinds of things are they teaching in lectures?
 
lord_jeebus said:
If your school's pass rate is that low, you'll probably get a better medical education in the long-term scheme of things by learning Step 1 material on your own.

What kinds of things are they teaching in lectures?

It is hard, some of the professors show up and teach their research.

Some of the professors are not qualified to teach their subjects. Some of them are "doctors of education." Like a few days ago when we were taught about "myothenia gravis" and pharacological treatment of it. Its not only they misspelled it, they pronounced it that way too.

It just seems my cirriculum is out in left field compared to what is on USMLE.
 
Supplement your class scribes with a BRS type book. It is possible to honor classes and do well on NBME's. In the long run though, the NBME's are great predictors for the USMLE.
 
viostorm said:
It is hard, some of the professors show up and teach their research.

Some of the professors are not qualified to teach their subjects. Some of them are "doctors of education." Like a few days ago when we were taught about "myothenia gravis" and pharacological treatment of it. Its not only they misspelled it, they pronounced it that way too.

It just seems my cirriculum is out in left field compared to what is on USMLE.

um...are you in a US MD Med school? I cant see a school with a pass rate that low and uneducated professors (said by you, not me...i dont know where you go) getting to keep their accredation

tell me you arent in a US school...please...

and my two-cents...study on your own and make sure u do well on step 1...very few people are AOA so if you do really well on Step 1 (240+), then that makes up for average grades in class
 
Mye Eye said:
um...are you in a US MD Med school? I cant see a school with a pass rate that low and uneducated professors (said by you, not me...i dont know where you go) getting to keep their accredation

tell me you arent in a US school...please...

and my two-cents...study on your own and make sure u do well on step 1...very few people are AOA so if you do really well on Step 1 (240+), then that makes up for average grades in class

Yes, US MD school.
 
viostorm said:
Yes, US MD school.

i'm sorry to hear that man...you really got shafted bro

well my advice to you...memorize every word in First Aid, and learn Kaplan QBank concepts...you will be fine...even if your school isnt helping you out at all
 
Mye Eye said:
i'm sorry to hear that man...you really got shafted bro

well my advice to you...memorize every word in First Aid, and learn Kaplan QBank concepts...you will be fine...even if your school isnt helping you out at all

Hi there,
The numbers for USMLE (all steps) are pretty much up to the individual. No school is going to be the end all of getting a certain score or even passing USMLE Step I. If the school is accredited, the information is out there. It is up to the individual to put it together and review properly. One of the neurosurgery residents came in and reviewed Neuroscience for us for Step I and it turned out that he was right on. I used his review for Step II and Step III.

When it comes to review, you cannot review what you haven't learned in the first place. You have to have the classwork mastered before you can do the review. I reviewed for two weeks after classes were done and scored extremely well on USMLE Step I. (I had a fellowship the summer between my second and third year that required I take Step I before the third week in May. I used only Q-Bank but I knew my coursework cold (AOA).

First Aid may contain all of the topics for USMLE Step I but you have to do some intergration and digestion. A couple of folks who were big into memorizing crashed (we had 2 out of 85 fail Step I).

Your best resource prep advice for Step I is someone at your school that had the same course experience that you have and did well. Ask them how they prepped and what they recommend.

njbmd 🙂
 
njbmd said:
Hi there,
The numbers for USMLE (all steps) are pretty much up to the individual. No school is going to be the end all of getting a certain score or even passing USMLE Step I. If the school is accredited, the information is out there. It is up to the individual to put it together and review properly. One of the neurosurgery residents came in and reviewed Neuroscience for us for Step I and it turned out that he was right on. I used his review for Step II and Step III.

When it comes to review, you cannot review what you haven't learned in the first place. You have to have the classwork mastered before you can do the review. I reviewed for two weeks after classes were done and scored extremely well on USMLE Step I. (I had a fellowship the summer between my second and third year that required I take Step I before the third week in May. I used only Q-Bank but I knew my coursework cold (AOA).

First Aid may contain all of the topics for USMLE Step I but you have to do some intergration and digestion. A couple of folks who were big into memorizing crashed (we had 2 out of 85 fail Step I).

Your best resource prep advice for Step I is someone at your school that had the same course experience that you have and did well. Ask them how they prepped and what they recommend.

njbmd 🙂

an AOA isnt the typical USMLE taker...you do realize your advice is by no way generalizable...thanks for trying to help though
 
I appreciate your thoughts njmbd.

I know, i really need to work harder but I just don't think I can, I just always seems like i'm choosing either to study for class or study for step/nbme. I just don't seem to be able to do both successfully.

I really like your advice about finding someone who did well in both. The bad thing is that our curriculum is brand *new*. They completely rearranged everything, cut out lectures, went organ based ... it is basically a disaster. They did this to remedy their low pass rate.

Thanks for everyone's feedback ...
 
viostorm said:
I appreciate your thoughts njmbd.

I know, i really need to work harder but I just don't think I can, I just always seems like i'm choosing either to study for class or study for step/nbme. I just don't seem to be able to do both successfully.

I really like your advice about finding someone who did well in both. The bad thing is that our curriculum is brand *new*. They completely rearranged everything, cut out lectures, went organ based ... it is basically a disaster. They did this to remedy their low pass rate.

Thanks for everyone's feedback ...

Hi there,
Step I is intergrated which means that the old classical subject by subject makes the prep very difficult as the student must do the intergration. At least with the organ systems curriculum you could use something like Board Simulator Series (way more difficult than USMLE) and review a few things as you go.

The biggest factor is that review books do NOT teach you anything. They review what you should already know and help you put things together. This is why folks who have not finished all of their classwork and memorize review books, have a difficult time with intergrating the material.

For many students, moving from a classical curriculum to an organ-based curriculum does help. A good prep should refresh what you know and help you practice the types of questions that you will be asked but this is far different from what most class exams do which is regurgitation.

With USMLE Step I, I was suprised at how much I could just "nail" by reading the question thoroughly. There were a few questions that I just could not figure out what they were asking but I guessed my best.

I have my upperclassmen to thank for helping us get up to speed. My school did very little in terms of "prep" but my upperclassmates really spent some time with us because they wanted us to do well. We did the same for the folks behind us. I might have done well because I took the test so much earlier than other folks too. I had won a paid Pathology fellowship and had to take Step I early.

I used Q-Bank for about two weeks. I very carefully worked through as many questions as I could get done.I spent about 8 hours each day on questions doing 50 at a time and not by subject. I resisted the urge to change answers as most of the time, my first instinct about a question was correct. I selectively reviewed the things that I felt were a weakness (autonomic Pharm). Q-Bank provided a good analysis of my weaker areas. In the end, my system worked for me.

I had been a good student during my classes, mastering the material and keeping up. I am not brilliant but I did work very hard and I was very steady with my studying throughout medical school.

You have some time so do some exploration in terms of what is out there for you. Also be sure to question the folks that went before you. Most people are willing to answer your questions if you just ask. Just beware of people who say "Memorize this and memorize that". Step I requires more of a "understand this" and understand that" approach. Sure there are some things that you just have to know for the test, but you can figure out loads too if you have a good understanding of you coursework.

Good luck
njbmd 🙂
 
viostorm said:
It is hard, some of the professors show up and teach their research.

Some of the professors are not qualified to teach their subjects. Some of them are "doctors of education." Like a few days ago when we were taught about "myothenia gravis" and pharacological treatment of it. Its not only they misspelled it, they pronounced it that way too.

It just seems my cirriculum is out in left field compared to what is on USMLE.


Wow! "myothenia gravis" lol
 
mig26x said:
you could name the state that the school is in??

Texas Tech, I don't want to give it a bad name ... honestly, we have some great clinicians and some good PhD's who are here. We have some of the worst professors I have ever had as well.

Outside of the classroom education, I have been very happy with the school.

I'm just telling you exactly the facts:

1) Our pass rate is 83 or 85 percent (or so I have been told)
2) I was taught about "myothenia gravis" the other day.

Look, I like the school and I am glad to be here. My family is in Lubbock and so it is a good place for me, in hindsight, I might have tried to go somewhere else but I wasn't a superstar premed so I'm lucky to be in school.

I honestly am just looking for some help on how to get me on the right track for Step 1 given I'm really worried about what I'm learning in class.

I just got a PM from someone in my class ... he was like "I agree and we have to take matters into our own hands."
 
There are all kinds of study schedules for Step 1, do a search on this site. My advice would be to NAIL THE BOARDS. If that means sacrificing an Honors or High Pass in a class then so be it. Although Step 1 is only part of your application, a high score can be your golden ticket.
 
Step I is by far more important than AOA. Step 1 is the only fair and true way to compare students from various medical schools. AOA is highly dependent upon the school. For example, try finishing in the top 10-15% of your class at Harvard Medical School versus Buddy's State Medical School. Obviously the competition is going to vary depending upon the medical school. And some schools have different policies regarding AOA induction. I would rather have a 240 on Step I than AOA and so would most program directors.

If skipping class can help you get that 240 then by all means skip class. You wouldn't be the first do that.

The other thing about Step I is that it tells programs you have a good understanding of basic science and how it relates to medicine. School performance just reflects how well you memorize data. Step I asks you more than just memorizing information. You have to integrate and apply information well. So a candidate who does well on Step I gives the impression that he or she can think and apply concepts well as opposed to just regurgitating information.
 
viostorm said:
Texas Tech, I don't want to give it a bad name ...

I'm in a MD medical school and I feel like our professors are doing a really bad job of preparing us for Step 1. I think the numbers reflect it with a school pass rate of 83% and 85% last two years (it has been hush hush because it is so bad, so that may even be high)

Thank God you said Texas Tech. I was sure you were going to say you went to Brown, my alma mater. We're IVY and we don't always even hit 83% (http://bms.brown.edu/students/professional/Boards.pdf).

BTW, some of those who've responded here are horribly underqualified to even respond. Ignore them. Totally. For example, the DO (novacek88) who responded above. Obviously AOA isn't an option at osteopathic schools. But that won't stop them from posting. He knows not what he posts. The Howard grad? It's your choice, but I would take the responses you get here with an enormous grain of salt.

You'll be fine either way. Do whatever works for you. Get a high Step I score.

Best of luck,
arrowsmith
 
arrowsmith2 said:
BTW, some of those who've responded here are horribly underqualified to even respond. Ignore them...The Howard grad?

You mean the Howard grad who's a chief resident in surgery? Wow, it's amazing that she got as far as she did being so horribly underqualified...

or did you mean that her advice won't apply to the average student because she's that much smarter?
 
MeowMix said:
You mean the Howard grad who's a chief resident in surgery? Wow, it's amazing that she got as far as she did being so horribly underqualified...

or did you mean that her advice won't apply to the average student?
Wow, really? A 50+ year-old from Howard is one of the many "Chief Residents" at UVA? Are we absolutely required to pretend that's an accomplishment that has any relation to scoring well on Step I for a non-minority student at a state school who wants to earn their way? Maybe I missed that memo.
 
arrowsmith2 said:
Wow, really? A 50+ year-old from Howard is one of the many "Chief Residents" at UVA? Are we absolutely required to pretend that's an accomplishment that has any relation to scoring well on Step I for a non-minority student at a state school who wants to earn their way? Maybe I missed that memo.

Look, I don't know what your deal is, but you are dismissing perfectly decent advice by two experienced residents as "horribly underqualified", and as far as I can tell, you recently started med school and have not yet taken Step 1. Stop. Please.
 
arrowsmith2 said:
Thank God you said Texas Tech. I was sure you were going to say you went to Brown, my alma mater. We're IVY and we don't always even hit 83% ([/QUOTE] So 83% isn't that bad? ...g at 83% for 1st time takers I was concerned.
 
viostorm said:
So 83% isn't that bad?

I was under the impression most schools were 90%+.
Who said 83% isn't bad?

Now, with your last post, you've given me pause for concern. You might very well be in trouble on Step I whether you attend class or not.

Good luck!
 
Curiously, I can relate to your delimma. I graduated from a school in Pakistan that basically sucked big time (not to put down Pakistani med schools or its doctors in general, because there are great ones of either here).

However, our school has also managed a good share of 99s despite a small percentage of students ever opting to go down the USMLE route. Many of these students studied by themselves (or with each other), and NO ONE who got a 99 from my school owes it to any professor. The way they score so well, as do many IMGs, is to do kaplan. The kaplan step 1 material is not just a "review", but teaches the material as if you were learning it for the first time.

What I'm saying is, if you do decide to self-study your way through med school, kaplan would be a good resource to use. If you go through their tapes and books, I think your breadth of knowledge will be more than enough not just to score well on the boards, but to give you the broad base needed of any doctor.
 
BTW, some of those who've responded here are horribly underqualified to even respond. Ignore them. Totally. For example, the DO (novacek88) who responded above. Obviously AOA isn't an option at osteopathic schools. But that won't stop them from posting. He knows not what he posts.
arrowsmith

You mean the same DO who is a resident at a prestigious ALLOPATHIC program and has helped ranked 4th medical students. Yeah, the same meeting where he was privy to the decision making process of why certain applicants were ranked higher. Yes, he is the same DO who matched in a GI fellowship at an ALLOPATHIC program. You are right, he is underqualified to answer such a question. You really made an outstanding case.
 
You mean the same DO who is a resident at a prestigious ALLOPATHIC program and has helped ranked 4th medical students. Yeah, the same meeting where he was privy to the decision making process of why certain applicants were ranked higher. Yes, he is the same DO who matched in a GI fellowship at an ALLOPATHIC program. You are right, he is underqualified to answer such a question. You really made an outstanding case.

You're not a purebread ivy league'er....enough said.....😉

awaiting the witty remark by arrow to your post....should be entertaining....
 
Wow, really? A 50+ year-old from Howard is one of the many "Chief Residents" at UVA? Are we absolutely required to pretend that's an accomplishment that has any relation to scoring well on Step I for a non-minority student at a state school who wants to earn their way? Maybe I missed that memo.

well keep with the post/idea about people from Osteopath schools or Howard being "less qualified" and you are certainly likely to do REALLY well among your colleagues

it's never been seen as a bad idea to be insulting of people with whom you will work...so keep it up!

med school is a long road and with that attitude i'm quite confident you wont actually have to work with those people since they wont let you through the system in the end
 
I'm in a MD medical school and I feel like our professors are doing a really bad job of preparing us for Step 1. I think the numbers reflect it with a school pass rate of 83% and 85% last two years (it has been hush hush because it is so bad, so that may even be high).

* I can "pass" classes by not going.
* I can't "honors" classes without going.

There is not enough time to study for step and class both.

My personal goal for Step 1 is 240.

Should I give up going to class and forget AOA but get a good step score or should I go for "honors" and possibly get a mediocre step score.

My career goal is a Top 25 Internal medicine residency.

Help me!


I can answer this flat out. F*ck class. Class is for idiots that need to be told EXACTLY what the prof will put on the test. Sleep in, study out of a text, you can still honor your classes if you have half a brain, its ALL test taking skills...its ALL test taking skills. I cant repeat that enough, people think if they dont KNOW the answer they can't get the question right, most institution tests are so poorly writen you can kill them drunk (and I have) if you just look for alternate ways to get the answer (grammar, tense, themes etc.) Study for the boards and Kill step one, its the only objective measure residency programs have of your perfomance.. This advice does not apply if your school uses the shelfs for the first two years, they are well written and external clues are hard to find. Pluss, studying for the shelfs is the best prep for the boards, both 1 and 2. If the prof writes the test, you're on easy street.
 
an AOA isnt the typical USMLE taker...you do realize your advice is by no way generalizable...thanks for trying to help though

I disagree. AOA does not mean top USMLE score, ussually it means good people skills...or more likely kiss ass since clinical grades count for a lot. I think a lot of the top scores I know are not AOA, since they give less of a **** on the floor, dont need to show you know your **** if you know you know it, know what I mean?
 
I disagree. AOA does not mean top USMLE score, ussually it means good people skills...or more likely kiss ass since clinical grades count for a lot. I think a lot of the top scores I know are not AOA, since they give less of a **** on the floor, dont need to show you know your **** if you know you know it, know what I mean?

I agree with this one.👍
 
True dat. I agree completely.

I have been having some reservations about kissing buttock to get a grade, so I have opted to focus on doing the best I can with my patients, working hard, and learning as much as possible.
I can completely control my shelf grades, Step 1 score, and Step 2 score. If I do not succeed on them, it is because it MY OWN DAMN FAULT, not because I didn't know the right people.

To be honest, how my patients think of me has mattered to me much more than colleague opinion. Medicine, after all, IS a business, and the patients are our customers. I have worked crappy jobs through my undergraduate education, paid and borrowed my way to get into medical school, and had to do it on my own without family help. (1st generation college graduate, let alone graduate medical education).
As a person from a humble background, I have always adhered to the "patient comes first" philosophy, perhaps at the expense of not buying into academic politics. I am not too proud to do things that some have snubbed their nose at, like making psych appointments for patients that need it, asking nurses if they can change the food we're giving them, etc.

I used to not worry so much about standardized tests, but after the MCAT, I came to realize that it DOES matter when everything is said and done. After applying to out-of-state schools and every in-state school, I learned that the out-of-state schools cared most about the MCAT because they really have no way of validating an "Honors" or "A" at "John Q. State University" in the same way that residency programs have no yardstick of grades from "Pam J. State Medical School." A dean at a U.S. medical school told me this in person at an interview out-of-state. I had traveled thousands of miles and came within a few points of a dream, only to be told that out-of-state applicants require higher standardized test scores in order to justify accepting them when in-staters have first dibs on slots. In the same fashion, a surgery residency director told several medical students in a meeting point blank that the same goes for Step 1. He said that many residency program directors across the country will deny left and right that they don't use the test to screen applicants, but they do it anyway because they have to in order to deal with the volume of hopeful medical school graduates opting for slots with limited availability.
After all, what does an "honors" at "Pam J. State Medical School" REALLY mean? You like the same music as the attending resident? You knew upperclassmen that told you what the right things to say were? You had better coaching from your alma mater from undergrad who have teamed together to provide an unfair advantage?

I opted to study for the boards 2nd year. Ironically, my class grades went up because I was able to go through a review book 2-4 times before the tests, listen to Goljan several times, and do 8-10 years worth of old test questions, whereas before I was lucky to get through the syllabus 2x, lectures once, and only 1-2 practice tests. I simply matched what was on the syllabus with BRS Path, First Aid, etc, and broke everything down into digestible morsels.

Repetition is the only way for me. I must have a hard head or something and need information constantly reinforced for it to sink in. It didn't really matter how I did it--writing notes, listening to myself read First Aid after recording, reading something over and over again; the only effective measure for me on how well I would do on a test was the number of times I could get through the material and how much time I spent doing questions and learning from my incorrect answers. Since review books tend to focus more on USMLE concepts than phD randomness/medical esoterism, I opted to go that route.

ABSOLUTELY NO REGRETS. I would rather not succeed on my own terms than rest my fate in the hands of others. At least I can learn directly from my own mistakes instead of having to discern between any of my potential shortcomings (not that there are any 😉) and that of others.
 
I really appreciate everyones feedback.

I actually met with our dean for students the other day and here is what I'm going to try and do, prepare for the NBME's and hopefully that will prepare me for class, although I am not going to get the nitpicky "did you come to my class" type questions. It will certainly prepare me for step.

1) I have decided to go to lectures by PhD's that are good and correspond to step 1/NBME material, skip all the rest (that will leave me skipping 80% or so of PhD's stuff).

2) Go to all lectures taught by MD's. These seem to be hard to make up if you aren't there and they usually have good clinical correlates.

3) Study from texts that correspond to step 1 material, Robin's Path and such, also use review books. I'm not going to study professor notes or slides (yes, I know I'm being an idiot and throwing away class points here)

4) Look at in class old exams, these seem to be rich in repeated questions for classes.

5) I'm going to try and "own" the information like some of you have said.

6) Work my ass off!!!!

Thanks for everyone's help with this dilemma. I'm going to try and do the compromise between go to everything and go to nothing.
 
combine the above (owning the important info for long term memory) with cramming as much of the the class/phd bull$hit minutia as possible in the last couple days before an exam (get maximum points on your tests then dump the trivial info)......you'll rock class exams, boards and keep your class rank in check....

if you spend your time wisely and learn the important info cold....you won't forget it during the 2 days of cramming bs right before the test
 
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