Going abroad to veterinary school?

[Mylez]

So in anticipation of applying this fall, I have been doing research on which veterinary schools I'd like to apply to. I am a WICHE student, so I will be applying to CSU and WSU for sure, and maybe OSU.

I have also considered the prospects of going abroad and have looked at Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Massey. My question is: Are they all five year programs? Is there any way to get in to the second year only? What is the difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow?

I also have critters that I would like to take with me, one cat, two sugar gliders, and a conure. How hard is it to take them with you if you go abroad? I can't bear the idea of not taking my pets with me to go to veterinary school, but I would also in a way love a change of scenery.

What are your thoughts on schools abroad?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[birdvet2006]

My question is: Are they all five year programs? Is there any way to get in to the second year only? What is the difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow?
I also have critters that I would like to take with me, one cat, two sugar gliders, and a conure. How hard is it to take them with you if you go abroad?
What are your thoughts on schools abroad?

Edinburgh and Glasgow are 5 year programmes. I hear that Edinburgh will accept you into the 2nd year (you have to specifically ask the admissions person). From seeing classmates (at Glasgow) go through it though, this may not be in your best interest. It's tough to learn a whole year's worth of information on your own (while at the same time having to learn 2nd year material). It's one thing if you're in the US, but switching to a different grading system will totally throw you off - it was difficult enough for my "direct entrant" classmates when they were *used to* the grading system.

I don't mind the extra year - instead of wasting a year applying to vet schools that I might not get into (and perhaps repeating the process year after year), I came here right away after getting my BS degree. It's an extra year of tuition (and living expenses), but worth it to me. I'd rather spend a year doing something that's getting me in the right direction, over spending a year or more in limbo.

The difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow is subtle. Edinburgh is a "stuffier" city and therefore I think the attitudes there are a bit "stuffier". But I've truly never been to the vet school there or had communications with them (outside social activities), so am not sure. Edinburgh is colder and dryer, Glasgow is warmer and wetter. They're only 45 minutes' drive away from eachother. Edinburgh has a bit more zoo/exotics, but still not much. Edinburgh has a fairly new small animal hospital. Glasgow has a fairly new equine hospital (and a new small animal hospital in the planning/funding stage, hopefully before 2012). Glasgow is real well-known for research (feline viruses, parasitology, epidemiology, pathology etc.). I don't know what Edinburgh is well-known for (mostly because I'm a student at Glasgow). Edinburgh and Glasgow are rival schools, being in the same country and so close together. Edinburgh students are known as "Dicks" (do you want to be one?! ) because the school founder was named Dick. You will find the school mentioned as the "Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Medicine." But if you went to either school, I'm sure you'd come out with a great quality of education. Scottish schools are the best!

Also, there will be curriculum differences between the two schools. I don't know the particulars - you'll have to view the undergraduate prospectuses.

Re: Critters
- Important thing to consider!
- Dogs and cats would have to get PETS scheme passports, a process taking at least 6 months (involving a rabies vaccine, rabies titre, microchipping, and de-worming).
- Consider the length of the flight from wherever you are to Glasgow - also consider if there will be any stop-overs at other airports.
- All pets must travel in the baggage area, no matter how small. That's why I wouldn't bring my bird (a ringneck parakeet).
- Birds mostly can be quarantined within your house in the UK (i.e. can't have contact with other birds) for a certain length of time.
- Most importantly, in my opinion: EMS (extramural studies) takes a lot of time and most placements won't allow you to bring your pets! You will likely be absent from your house/flat in Glasgow for 2-4 weeks at a time to do EMS, various times throughout the year. There aren't many placements within Glasgow itself, and the placements there are usually saturated by students.

Another thing: if you want to go home for Christmas, Easter/spring and summer - that's a lot of traveling and it will likely not be possible to bring your pets back and forth each time (just the logistics of it). I personally have enjoyed going home to the US fairly often (I always go for 3-4 weeks or more...not worth spending the money otherwise). I have done a lot of EMS in the USA, too (something to put on my CV to potentially help me get an internship/residency).
Yet another thing: if you want to travel, explore Europe and such - it may be more difficult with pets.

But people still bring their pets to Glasgow. There's one guy who sends out an e-mail each and every break asking for someone who can take his dog for 4 weeks while he goes off to do EMS and/or to the USA!

 

[BeatriceDVM]

Mylez:

Edinburgh has addressed the difficulties that Cindy speaks of regarding direct entry -- and you do not have to ask specifically about direct entry any longer if you have completed most U.S. vet school prerequisites. I was accepted there this year and they offered me a spot in this new program without any inquiry (about direct entry) on my part.

This new program is called the graduate entry program and supposedly combines the 1st and 2nd year into one year for direct entry students – you start a few weeks earlier than the other vet students. After completing year one, graduate entry students enter into the 3rd year.

I don’t know much more except that it’s new and was apparently created in order to alleviate some of the problems of entering directly into the 2nd year without benefit of the 1st year curriculum. I’ve also heard that the RVC might be doing something similar. I think the school websites have more details on these new programs.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mylez]

What exactly is EMS? Does it occur every year? Why can't you take your pets?

Also, what is the territory like around Edinburgh vs. Glasgow? Did you go through a lot of culture shock or have a hard time adjusting to the grading scheme?

 

[Duckylady]

Thanks so much for bringing this up, Mylez. I was planning on posting a question on this myself as soon as I unburried myself from work, school, and chicken coop mucking
I have just recently begun to examine the possiblity of vet school abroad. Studying in another country has always interested me, but due to personal constraints and problems with credits transferring (I already have credit from two Universitys, will have one more by the time I finish my BS) this will be impossible during undergrad. Attending vet school in another nation would give me a chance to experience something I may not have the opportunity to experience again.
I do have a few concerns. First, is there any stigma attached to attending an overseas school, even an AVMA accredited one? Will prospective colleagues/clients look at the BVMS rather than DVM after my name and think, "She couldn't get into a US school," or will it be more like "Oh cool, she studied abroad!"
Also, do those of you who attend/have attended vet school in another country find this to be an aid or a distraction to your studies? I mean, does the prospect of traveling on breaks allow you something else to focus on beside school and/or help remind you that there is life beyond vet school, or is being in another country a distracting factor?
Thanks for any input. I know you all understand better than anyone how important a decision this is.

Heather

 

[weeziefive]

Just letting you know there are other schools besides these ones. Edinburgh and Glasgow are great thoough, I have friends attending both at the moment..

I just recently got accetped to Murdoch University in Perth, Australia and they are AVMA accredited. I truthfuly am so excited about going away and exploring another country. It still feels like its not real, but it is. Here are some other AVMA accredited schools if you go to this link. The foreign schools are on the bottom of the page.



http://www.avma.org/education/cvea/colleges_accredited/allcolleges.asp

 

[birdvet2006]

Mylez:

This new program is called the graduate entry program and supposedly combines the 1st and 2nd year into one year for direct entry students – you start a few weeks earlier than the other vet students. After completing year one, graduate entry students enter into the 3rd year.

Hope this helps.

Beatrice,

Glasgow does the same thing with its direct entrants. They start at least a week earlier (I actually think it may be a month earlier). But it is still tough for them, and they are from a British university background (having first degrees from British universities). I still think it would be terribly hard to get through that first year (technically "2nd year"). Here, at least, we have one professional exam at the end of 2nd year that covers both years' worth of material (and this counts for nearly all of your grade!).

 

[birdvet2006]

What exactly is EMS? Does it occur every year? Why can't you take your pets?

Also, what is the territory like around Edinburgh vs. Glasgow? Did you go through a lot of culture shock or have a hard time adjusting to the grading scheme?

EMS = "extramural studies". It is an important and very big part of veterinary school here in the UK (and I think Australia has something similar). EMS is a requirement set forth by the RCVS (Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons - the vet schools' governing body, similar to AVMA in the USA) in order to graduate.
EMS is done on your breaks - and you must do 2 weeks at a time.

EMS is split up into pre-clinical and clinical EMS. Clinical EMS is done your last 3 years (of a 5 year curriculum). Pre-clinical is done only in your first 2 years. Pre-clinical EMS involves seeing the non-veterinary aspects of the animal world. You have to do 12 weeks of pre-clinical EMS. At Glasgow, we split it up into: 2 weeks lambing, 2 weeks kennels/cattery, 2 weeks pigs or poultry, 2 weeks horses/stables, 2 weeks of dairy farm, and 2 weeks of "other" (you can repeat any of them, most people do 3-4 weeks total of lambing or more, as you can get paid for this). You usually can't bring your pets to a farm (although I have heard of it happening once or twice) - you'll be living with the farmer's family and sometimes camping out in a caravan or similar. You might get some cat/dog or other categories "waived" because of prior experience if you're lucky.

Clinical EMS is 26 weeks! You must do one week at an abattoir (slaughterhouse) in order to graduate, no matter what school you go to. Clinical EMS is essential the same thing as "externships" or "preceptorships" in the USA. For me, I could only do 10 weeks of clinical EMS (for credit, that is) in the USA or overseas from the UK. During clinical EMS, you basically shadow veterinarians and they may or may not let you do things. The goal is for you to do things, but not all EMS turns out as nice as you would hope. This is the time to get your surgical experience, since you get pretty much none in vet school in the UK (due to strict laws on animal experimentation). You can also do physical exams, give injections, apply bandages, take radiographs, do repro exams on cows, and do other "US technician stuff". Most UK students have zero experience giving injections and such prior to vet school, since only veterinary nurses and veterinary students are legally allowed to do these things. Most veterinary hospitals/clinics will not allow their assistants (vets that don't own the practice) to bring their pets, not to mention students! For farm animal or mixed practices, you will be doing a lot of traveling between farms and such. It would not be a good biosecurity practice to bring your dog from farm to farm, unless you could do thorough foot-washing between farms etc. (And I imagine that the farm animal vet wouldn't be so happy taking a dog in their car/truck).

EMS placements are not regulated (at least not at Glasgow). You find the placements through word-of-mouth, friends, advertisements at school, and from the EMS database online (and those are not guaranteed to be good placements). You can go anywhere in the UK. I have used my EMS as an opportunity to travel. I have done EMS in interesting places such as the Isle of Man and North Yorkshire, England. I have done a lot of EMS in the USA. This upcoming spring break, I have EMS planned on Islay and Mainland Orkney (both are Scottish islands).

Culture shock - I definitely had some. I'd never traveled overseas before (unless the Bahamas count, and only for a couple days). You won't find all your favourite food here, and almost everything is a different brand. You won't know where to find the things you need to buy, at first. You will be frustrated by the slowness of customer service. You will be frustrated by paperwork troubles at the bank. You may be shocked by the weather - perpetual gloom is not always great for everyone (consider depression due to lack of UV light). It rains a LOT. It's cold here if you're from a warmer climate (like southern California, Arizona, Texas, Florida and such). There are different holidays, different currency, different foods, much fewer (and more expensive) restaurants and fast food, and if you don't get a car you'll have to learn about public transportation (this is what I opted for, but in hindsight I'd get a car). If going out to drink at pubs/clubs is not your cup of tea, then you might feel a bit isolated and lonely (as I do sometimes), as nearly the entire student body is "going out" all the time. It would be similar anywhere in the UK, I think.

 

[birdvet2006]

I do have a few concerns. First, is there any stigma attached to attending an overseas school, even an AVMA accredited one? Will prospective colleagues/clients look at the BVMS rather than DVM after my name and think, "She couldn't get into a US school," or will it be more like "Oh cool, she studied abroad!"
Also, do those of you who attend/have attended vet school in another country find this to be an aid or a distraction to your studies? I mean, does the prospect of traveling on breaks allow you something else to focus on beside school and/or help remind you that there is life beyond vet school, or is being in another country a distracting factor?
Thanks for any input. I know you all understand better than anyone how important a decision this is.

Heather

There MAY be people who want to look down on you for going overseas. You will often get the feeling that people assume you went overseas because "you couldn't get in to a US vet school" (in my case, this is 100% wrong because I never applied to US schools!). But when it comes right down to it, it will not matter when you go looking for a job. Lots of people think it's great that you've gone overseas and have had this unique experience. If you pass your NAVLE and state board exams, you are equivalent to any USA-graduated veterinarian and are equally employable. You can be called "doctor" as long as you're licensed to practice in a US state. You CAN'T sign "DVM" or "VMD" next to your name though - you can only put your true degree (BVMS, BVM&S, BVSc etc.). Look at the faculty lists at the US vet schools: I know you'll find all sorts of foreign grads there. They're definitely good enough to be teaching US vet students. Think about it.

I don't find travel as a distraction. I find it to be a fun thing to do that lets me escape from my studies every now and then (as in: a good thing). I also don't have all the money in the world to be traveling, so I don't go far or for very long most of the time.

 

[Duckylady]

Thanks BirdVet, you and your site have been quite helpful

Heather

 

[weeziefive]

Sorry I forgot to mention something. I was able to get my first semester waived at Murdoch because of courses that I had previously taken. I didnt asked to be waived they just did it. Also the great thing about applying to Murdoch and Massey is that it is free. No joke. No application fee at all. The deposit was expensive around $760 US. And the program australearn.org was a big helper and still are helping me with my visa and so forth. Because its free I would definetly give it a whirl.

 

[Mylez]

Yes, thanks bird vet and weezie.

Weezie, how do you go about applying to Murdoch? How expensive is it, and is there the same difficulties with keeping pets while abroad and trying to get through veterinary school? What is the program like?

Birdvet, I finally understand. It sounds like Scotland tries to give you a lot of animal experience, which is nice! It's unfortunate that for the most part you can't tow your pet along with you. At the least I'd have to bring my cat, so that makes me think again about doing the abroad thing.

 

[weeziefive]

Yes, thanks bird vet and weezie.

Weezie, how do you go about applying to Murdoch? How expensive is it, and is there the same difficulties with keeping pets while abroad and trying to get through veterinary school? What is the program like?

Birdvet, I finally understand. It sounds like Scotland tries to give you a lot of animal experience, which is nice! It's unfortunate that for the most part you can't tow your pet along with you. At the least I'd have to bring my cat, so that makes me think again about doing the abroad thing.

The tuition is 26K a year. Which isnt bad, because my in-state vet schools are above that actually. I went through a program called australearn.org they are on the internet and they helped me a lot with trying to figure out deadlines for international students. Instead of going through the school, you actually send all of our information (LOR's, passport info, application, personal statement, and any additional essays). Amy Deppe (Litwin) at Australearn is awesome. And one of the perks is I turned in my application on Sept 30th and found out I got in Nov 4th. Pretty good turn around. Most people I have talked to that go to Massey and who have been to Murdoch say its a really good school and the area is wonderful. The weather is like California. You do have to quarantine your animals for the 6 months due to Rabies. And I know for a lot of people that is a big problem. For me, my cats live on a farm, and are living the time of their life, so I know that confining them and shippinng them to confine them in an apartment is much worse than saying bye for 4.5 years. Oh an I think most of the foreign schools di the EMS, Murdoch does. I actually find that exciting. I really want to do an internship at NVSL in Iowa. Sorry my brain thinks spastically, but another good thing is that exchange rate is pretty nice. Its 70 cents to our dollar. If you need any other information just let me know Id be more than happy to help.

 

[lwarren]

Does anybody know what attending Ross university is like? And more importantly, how easy is it to practice in Canada (or the US) afterwards?

 

[lwarren]

Did you live on or off campus your first year at Glasgow? You said you go back to the US often, how often is often? Is it relatively easy to find EMS positions in the US? Just to verify, once you're finished at Glasgow your degree will be exactly the same as a degree obtained from the Canada or US, all you have to do is pass the NAVLE and state/provincial specific requirements to practice, right?
Thanks for your posts, i've found them to be quite helpful.

Edinburgh and Glasgow are 5 year programmes. I hear that Edinburgh will accept you into the 2nd year (you have to specifically ask the admissions person). From seeing classmates (at Glasgow) go through it though, this may not be in your best interest. It's tough to learn a whole year's worth of information on your own (while at the same time having to learn 2nd year material). It's one thing if you're in the US, but switching to a different grading system will totally throw you off - it was difficult enough for my "direct entrant" classmates when they were *used to* the grading system.

I don't mind the extra year - instead of wasting a year applying to vet schools that I might not get into (and perhaps repeating the process year after year), I came here right away after getting my BS degree. It's an extra year of tuition (and living expenses), but worth it to me. I'd rather spend a year doing something that's getting me in the right direction, over spending a year or more in limbo.

The difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow is subtle. Edinburgh is a "stuffier" city and therefore I think the attitudes there are a bit "stuffier". But I've truly never been to the vet school there or had communications with them (outside social activities), so am not sure. Edinburgh is colder and dryer, Glasgow is warmer and wetter. They're only 45 minutes' drive away from eachother. Edinburgh has a bit more zoo/exotics, but still not much. Edinburgh has a fairly new small animal hospital. Glasgow has a fairly new equine hospital (and a new small animal hospital in the planning/funding stage, hopefully before 2012). Glasgow is real well-known for research (feline viruses, parasitology, epidemiology, pathology etc.). I don't know what Edinburgh is well-known for (mostly because I'm a student at Glasgow). Edinburgh and Glasgow are rival schools, being in the same country and so close together. Edinburgh students are known as "Dicks" (do you want to be one?! ) because the school founder was named Dick. You will find the school mentioned as the "Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Medicine." But if you went to either school, I'm sure you'd come out with a great quality of education. Scottish schools are the best!

Also, there will be curriculum differences between the two schools. I don't know the particulars - you'll have to view the undergraduate prospectuses.

Re: Critters
- Important thing to consider!
- Dogs and cats would have to get PETS scheme passports, a process taking at least 6 months (involving a rabies vaccine, rabies titre, microchipping, and de-worming).
- Consider the length of the flight from wherever you are to Glasgow - also consider if there will be any stop-overs at other airports.
- All pets must travel in the baggage area, no matter how small. That's why I wouldn't bring my bird (a ringneck parakeet).
- Birds mostly can be quarantined within your house in the UK (i.e. can't have contact with other birds) for a certain length of time.
- Most importantly, in my opinion: EMS (extramural studies) takes a lot of time and most placements won't allow you to bring your pets! You will likely be absent from your house/flat in Glasgow for 2-4 weeks at a time to do EMS, various times throughout the year. There aren't many placements within Glasgow itself, and the placements there are usually saturated by students.

Another thing: if you want to go home for Christmas, Easter/spring and summer - that's a lot of traveling and it will likely not be possible to bring your pets back and forth each time (just the logistics of it). I personally have enjoyed going home to the US fairly often (I always go for 3-4 weeks or more...not worth spending the money otherwise). I have done a lot of EMS in the USA, too (something to put on my CV to potentially help me get an internship/residency).
Yet another thing: if you want to travel, explore Europe and such - it may be more difficult with pets.

But people still bring their pets to Glasgow. There's one guy who sends out an e-mail each and every break asking for someone who can take his dog for 4 weeks while he goes off to do EMS and/or to the USA!

 

[birdvet2006]

I lived on campus in my first year, at Wolfson Hall (actually on the vet school campus, called the Garscube Estate). After that, I moved into private accommodation with another American in my class. We've been here ever since.

I go back to the US nearly every break (winter, spring, summer). I only stayed here for one winter break (last year) and one spring break (second year to go lambing). Winter break is 3-4 weeks long, spring break is 4 weeks long, and summer is 3-4 months.

I had no trouble finding EMS in the US. I just found vets who I liked and asked if they allowed externships. I also used the AAV (Assn. of Avian Veterinarians) externship list (which is a bit outdated, but still helped). It helped to go to avian conferences and meet the vets in person before I actually did the externships.

Just to verify, once you're finished at Glasgow your degree will be exactly the same as a degree obtained from the Canada or US, all you have to do is pass the NAVLE and state/provincial specific requirements to practice, right?

You're absolutely correct. I just took the NAVLE and California state board exams in December 2005, and I passed them both. Now I just need my diploma and I'm a vet in California!

As to your questions regarding Ross: you would have to go through the ECFVG process. Now there is a new exam called the PAVE that you can take while still on the island (apparently it's easier than the clinical competency exam). Pass the PAVE and you can practice in something like 30 states (even California allows the PAVE now). I know a few Ross graduates that have really loved their school and have turned out as great vets.

 

[lwarren]

Thanks for your quick and detailed reply.
So, how hard did you find the curriculum at Glasgow? Was it pretty intense or more laid back? Do you want to run your own practice in California? I know Glasgow's pretty expensive, how long do you think it'll take you to no longer be in debt?

I lived on campus in my first year, at Wolfson Hall (actually on the vet school campus, called the Garscube Estate). After that, I moved into private accommodation with another American in my class. We've been here ever since.

I go back to the US nearly every break (winter, spring, summer). I only stayed here for one winter break (last year) and one spring break (second year to go lambing). Winter break is 3-4 weeks long, spring break is 4 weeks long, and summer is 3-4 months.

I had no trouble finding EMS in the US. I just found vets who I liked and asked if they allowed externships. I also used the AAV (Assn. of Avian Veterinarians) externship list (which is a bit outdated, but still helped). It helped to go to avian conferences and meet the vets in person before I actually did the externships.



You're absolutely correct. I just took the NAVLE and California state board exams in December 2005, and I passed them both. Now I just need my diploma and I'm a vet in California!

As to your questions regarding Ross: you would have to go through the ECFVG process. Now there is a new exam called the PAVE that you can take while still on the island (apparently it's easier than the clinical competency exam). Pass the PAVE and you can practice in something like 30 states (even California allows the PAVE now). I know a few Ross graduates that have really loved their school and have turned out as great vets.

 

[quakk]

hi, mylez...

like weezie, i got heaps of exemptions for my first year at murdoch. i'm taking first-year physiology and second year biochemistry this semester (and a philosophy unit), and next semester i have a light load of only 3 of the 4 first-year units - i got exempted from cell biology.

i met a woman from canada who just came down here and started right in on her second year. she has to overload and take first-year anatomy next semester, but it is possible.

best wishes...

scott

So in anticipation of applying this fall, I have been doing research on which veterinary schools I'd like to apply to. I am a WICHE student, so I will be applying to CSU and WSU for sure, and maybe OSU.

I have also considered the prospects of going abroad and have looked at Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Massey. My question is: Are they all five year programs? Is there any way to get in to the second year only? What is the difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow?

I also have critters that I would like to take with me, one cat, two sugar gliders, and a conure. How hard is it to take them with you if you go abroad? I can't bear the idea of not taking my pets with me to go to veterinary school, but I would also in a way love a change of scenery.

What are your thoughts on schools abroad?

 

[birdvet2006]

Thanks for your quick and detailed reply.
So, how hard did you find the curriculum at Glasgow? Was it pretty intense or more laid back? Do you want to run your own practice in California? I know Glasgow's pretty expensive, how long do you think it'll take you to no longer be in debt?

First year wasn't so bad. Second year was a little more challenging (i.e. cardiac physiology - yuck!) but not too bad. Third year is known to be the most difficult, and it was. But that's not to say that 4th and 5th years are any easier - just no more difficult than 3rd year was. They say if you can pass 3rd year, you'll be OK.

I don't want to run my own practice at this point. It has never been my dream and I will be happy as an associate for a good while. I can see myself maybe entering into a partnership, but probably never being sole owner. I do want to practice on 100% birds though, and if need be I may consider being sole owner to do so.

I will be in debt at LEAST 10 years. Probably more like 20. Who knows - and I am going to defer my loans for at least 1 year after graduating so I can do an internship and residency. My education is an investment and I'm happy to pay for it forever if need be.

 

[Mylez]

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I've been thinking a lot (still) about going abroad.

Weezie, how rotten is the quarantine on the animals? I adore my cat and (it sounds pathetic) but it would kill me to push him through a 30 day quarantine...but I could do it for sure. How expensive is it to quarantine your animals, and can you visit them?

Birdvet, is there a quarantine requirement for animals entering the UK?

 

[mokadet]

There is now an exemption to the quarantine rule for entrance into the UK! Here's a link explaining what you need to do to bypass this painful experience: http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/pets/procedures/owners.htm

I grew up in a military family and we were stationed in England in the early 90s, before this scheme, and we were forced to quarantine our two dogs. The older of the two never really recovered and to her death we could not kennel her because she reacted so violently even to something as short as a day at the groomers (diarrhea and vomiting for days).

 

[quakk]

it cost AUD$1079 for two cats in quarantine in byford. i visited them every weekday, which i would highly recommend. bear did ok. roo really hated it, and she vomited daily and stopped eating. they're done, and they'll never go through that again, but i think we're all happier they're here with me.

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I've been thinking a lot (still) about going abroad.

Weezie, how rotten is the quarantine on the animals? I adore my cat and (it sounds pathetic) but it would kill me to push him through a 30 day quarantine...but I could do it for sure. How expensive is it to quarantine your animals, and can you visit them?

Birdvet, is there a quarantine requirement for animals entering the UK?

 

[wishes]

Hey there. I just thought that I would put in my two-cents to a very interesting thread.
I applied to Edinburgh this year and was accepted into the second year of the five-year program. At this time Edinburgh does not do interviews while Glasgow, as I understand, does. This could possibly be a factor if you have interview anxiety or would like to save on plane-fare.
Edinburgh does hold an optional information session and they will have an East coast and West coast venue. This year the West coast venue was in Portland. I will say that they definitely allayed any fears I had about Edinburgh being an inferior program when compared to American schools so please do not be party to this idea as I was. I truly believe that their program is excellent and at this point they are very excited to have American students.
I think that in the past there has been feeling that going abroad to veterinary school equals an inferior education but I do think that this idea has largely dissipated, at least where the European schools are concerned. I have heard some negative things about Ross and similar programs, however I do not want to give these schools a bad rap because I really know very little about they have to offer.
I have decided against Edinburgh mostly because of the logistical difficulties associate with the move as I am married and have lots animals, but if you are single it could be a great adventure and excellent time to live in another country. As a side note, I have visited the city of Glasgow, and all of Scotland seems to be nice albeit different in some respects from America.
Lastly, if you decide to apply to the WICHE schools, I was accepted into both Oregon and Washington this year and both are nice programs. Oregon’s four-year program is very new and because of this they are still trying to work out some glitches. Oregon also has an extremely small class size, which could be good or bad depending on what you are looking for. Both Pullman and Corvallis are fun small towns. Between the two I would probably pick Washington over Oregon. Colorado has always been my dream school so I would definitely consider applying there although both Davis and Colorado are notoriously hard to get into. I would also consider some not WICHE programs as there are some that have a reputation for taking a large number of out of state people. Tuition would be more in this case, of course, although some schools will grant you residency after your first year.
Good luck!

 

[ReinaDeLuz]

I have to agree totally with Wishes about Edinburgh being an excellent vet school. It is actually the most prestigious veterinary college in the UK and considered one of the best in Europe. My husband is English, and I've spent lots of time in England and the opinion I have gathered from the people there is that when someone wants to reccomend or brag about their vet (and they went to Edinburgh) the best thing they can say is "he studied at Edinburgh" or "he's an Edinburgh vet". I dont think Glasgow has quite the same "posh" reputation as Edinburgh but its still a good vet school.

 

[birdvet2006]

I have to agree totally with Wishes about Edinburgh being an excellent vet school. It is actually the most prestigious veterinary college in the UK and considered one of the best in Europe. My husband is English, and I've spent lots of time in England and the opinion I have gathered from the people there is that when someone wants to reccomend or brag about their vet (and they went to Edinburgh) the best thing they can say is "he studied at Edinburgh" or "he's an Edinburgh vet". I dont think Glasgow has quite the same "posh" reputation as Edinburgh but its still a good vet school.

Well, I've heard the same thing about Glasgow's vet school (that it's the best in the UK, or the best in Europe or the world). I ask: what ranking system do you find that makes one better than the other? Other than word of mouth where everyone thinks their own vet school is best... All vet schools have their faults, and their strengths IMO.

 

[mokadet]

"Other than word of mouth where everyone thinks their own vet school is best... All vet schools have their faults, and their strengths IMO."

Isn't that the truth. I'm down in Virginia and I hear all the time "oh, aren't you lucky to be a VA resident, isn't Tech the best school in the US..." And then when I'm up in Mass visiting my parents I hear virtually the same thing about Tufts. My answer is usually, "well, any US school you can get in to is a great school." I guess too (in the US especially) because there are so few schools people don't really hear about other schools or competition. All they know is everyone in Richmond that has a really sick animal gets refered to Tech, so it must be the best.

 

[HorseyVet]

All they know is everyone in Richmond that has a really sick animal gets refered to Tech, so it must be the best.

It's interesting though that in some areas vet schools are loosing their presitge with clients and some veterinarians as referral centers b/c of the growth of private referal hosptials.

In my area, for large animals, a client could pick from 2 univeristies and 2 private referral centers. Vets often prefer the private centers b/c they have better communications about the patient with the regular vet. Clients often like them b/c they are not as bureaucratic and are better able to "cap" procedures. At a university, a client may get qouted a price, but then b/c there is no one person in charge, the qoute quickly doubles or triples. The animal essentially gets a file or bar code and every department that deals with it stamps or scans their charges on the bill. When the client complains about the additional charges, there is no one with the authority to remove or reduce fees b/c that means stubbing another department. A private centers, there aren't departments in the same sense, and major vets working there can decide to cap fees from the start.

I'm sure it's not the case everywhere, but I've known a lot of horse people that refuse to deal with univeristies anymore b/c of this phenomena. Some of these people have been involved with horses forever, so maybe the practice/inccident that spurned them has been resolved, but it is still a fairly conventional view from what I can determine.

P.S. PAthbid, you might want to split this thread if people continue to post on this digression from the main topic

 

[medtechv79]

Well, I've heard the same thing about Glasgow's vet school (that it's the best in the UK, or the best in Europe or the world). I ask: what ranking system do you find that makes one better than the other? Other than word of mouth where everyone thinks their own vet school is best... All vet schools have their faults, and their strengths IMO.

Hi There Birdvet,

Do u really have to spend one week at a slaughterhouse? Wow.....I've recently came across videoclips on the PETA websites concerning abuses to farm animals. Its breaks my heart. Not that I'm a vegetarian but couldn't they kill animals more humanely? I could never visit a slaughterhouse....to sad.

When do u graduate by the way? and where will u work once u gradaute? back in the US?

 

[chris03333]

Hi There Birdvet,

Do u really have to spend one week at a slaughterhouse? Wow.....I've recently came across videoclips on the PETA websites concerning abuses to farm animals. Its breaks my heart. Not that I'm a vegetarian but couldn't they kill animals more humanely? I could never visit a slaughterhouse....to sad.

When do u graduate by the way? and where will u work once u gradaute? back in the US?

You might be able to handle going to a slaughter house. Remember PETA has an agenda and does a great job of making videos of the worst case senario(ie backyard type places), or changing the video to black and white, playing certain types of music.....

 

[weeziefive]

I know I have posted a huge amount of posts on this topic. However, I just wanted to reiterate that there are those who think poorly about attending a foreign school, and then there are those who encourage it. I think for myself it was a decision I made a long time ago, but didn’t realize how much I wanted to go away until I was actually completing the application process and got in. I know what I am capable of and know that no matter where I go I am going to make something of my education and myself. So all I can say is Australia here I come! If you are planning on applying out of the country don’t let people discourage you. Do what you know will make you happy. You are the one who will be there for 4-5 years.

 

[UKYWildcat]

It's interesting though that in some areas vet schools are loosing their presitge with clients and some veterinarians as referral centers b/c of the growth of private referal hosptials.

In my area, for large animals, a client could pick from 2 univeristies and 2 private referral centers. Vets often prefer the private centers b/c they have better communications about the patient with the regular vet. Clients often like them b/c they are not as bureaucratic and are better able to "cap" procedures. At a university, a client may get qouted a price, but then b/c there is no one person in charge, the qoute quickly doubles or triples. The animal essentially gets a file or bar code and every department that deals with it stamps or scans their charges on the bill. When the client complains about the additional charges, there is no one with the authority to remove or reduce fees b/c that means stubbing another department. A private centers, there aren't departments in the same sense, and major vets working there can decide to cap fees from the start.

I'm sure it's not the case everywhere, but I've known a lot of horse people that refuse to deal with univeristies anymore b/c of this phenomena. Some of these people have been involved with horses forever, so maybe the practice/inccident that spurned them has been resolved, but it is still a fairly conventional view from what I can determine.

P.S. PAthbid, you might want to split this thread if people continue to post on this digression from the main topic

Huh? What university are you referring to? I see fees written off ALL the time and see documentation of or hear clients being updated of their costs on a daily basis by our residents. I honestly don't know where you get this impression because it doesn't happen everywhere. Private hospitals run up huge bills too...and they're not going to write off things that a university would.

 

[rdc]

Huh? What university are you referring to? I see fees written off ALL the time and see documentation of or hear clients being updated of their costs on a daily basis by our residents. I honestly don't know where you get this impression because it doesn't happen everywhere. Private hospitals run up huge bills too...and they're not going to write off things that a university would.

totally agree

 

[birdvet2006]

Hi There Birdvet,

Do u really have to spend one week at a slaughterhouse? Wow.....I've recently came across videoclips on the PETA websites concerning abuses to farm animals. Its breaks my heart. Not that I'm a vegetarian but couldn't they kill animals more humanely? I could never visit a slaughterhouse....to sad.

When do u graduate by the way? and where will u work once u gradaute? back in the US?

Yes, we do have to spend one week in a slaughterhouse in order to graduate. In fact, I just scheduled my one week and am looking forward to it.

There are laws that prevent *inhumane* slaughter, so I don't know what you mean "couldn't they kill animals more humanely". Killing of animals for food occurs through stunning the animal first (concussion to the head or electrical current through the brain) and then actually slaughtering (bleeding it out via severing its major blood vessels). The animals are usually in a big line, herded into the area where the stunning occurs. Probably the worst part for them is being herded and transported (there are studies by Temple Grandin, for example, to minimize these stresses). Have you ever watched a real slaughter on video? PETA is full of propaganda so you might want to search for something more along the lines of USDA (people who actually do the slaughtering). We had to watch videos of the various types of slaughtering and of all the various things that go on in a slaughter house. It's part of our public health course in 4th year.

Veterinarians have a very real responsibility towards protecting public health and also towards protecting animals from suffering. If you work as a slaughterhouse vet, part of your job is to monitor that the slaughtering is being conducted correctly (humanely) and that no animals are suffering. Any animals seen to be suffering are supposed to be slaughtered immediately on humane grounds, or allowed to have their medical condition treated prior to being slaughtered.

It's not much different in the field. Cattle that are suffering are often killed on farms by vets. At least in the UK, if the farmer wants to get money from the animal's carcase, it needs to go for human consumption and therefore must be slaughtered (bled out) instead of killed with pentobarbital (or other drugs). So vets often carry guns (free bullet or captive-bolt) and knives to perform the humane slaughter.


I graduate on July 1st (2006), but my last exam is June 16th. I begin work as a small animal intern at a private practice in northern California on June 26th.

 

[quakk]

agreed. people get all stuffy about where you went to school, but in the end, does it REALLY matter? i don't think so. i would argue that these people are missing the point entirely. it's all about what you do with your opportunities.

i say this as one who did get all stuffy about where people went to school. until i realised that fantastic engineers come from everywhere, not just mit, caltech, berkeley or stanford.

who do you want operating on your beloved pet? someone who went to ross university and graduated at the top of his/her class, aced the nat'l and state board exams, has a great rapport with clients, and is super-skilled at surgery, or someone who graduated at the bottom of his/her class at penn, cornell, davis, csu, or tamu barely passed the board exams, can't deal with clients and is afraid of doing surgery? gimme the ross grad. that's an extreme example, but it illustrates my point. you get good grads from "bad" schools, and bad grads from "good" schools.

i had narrowed down my choices in the u.s. to davis, tamu, csu and michigan state. now that i'm at murdoch, i'm so glad i went overseas. for so many reasons...

I know I have posted a huge amount of posts on this topic. However, I just wanted to reiterate that there are those who think poorly about attending a foreign school, and then there are those who encourage it. I think for myself it was a decision I made a long time ago, but didn’t realize how much I wanted to go away until I was actually completing the application process and got in. I know what I am capable of and know that no matter where I go I am going to make something of my education and myself. So all I can say is Australia here I come! If you are planning on applying out of the country don’t let people discourage you. Do what you know will make you happy. You are the one who will be there for 4-5 years.

 

[youthman]

Murdoch sounds fun but the thought of desert climate conditions would be a concern for me. I hate dry heat.

 

[weeziefive]

Weather. Thats the one thing I am looking forward to. I have been told it is just like Southern California Weather. Thank god!!!

 

[youthman]

You mean so. cal as in 76 deg. beach weather or so. cal as in Palm Springs 100 deg. at 8 pm weather? Because if it's like nice so. cal weather I'll be sure to apply there as well.

 

[HorseyVet]

Huh? What university are you referring to? I see fees written off ALL the time and see documentation of or hear clients being updated of their costs on a daily basis by our residents. I honestly don't know where you get this impression because it doesn't happen everywhere. Private hospitals run up huge bills too...and they're not going to write off things that a university would.

I'm not going to say. Like I said though I'm just going from what I've heard clients say which may or may not be totally accurate. Like I said, I know a lot of people that really felt burned by universities and refuse to deal with them anymore if they can help it. Again, the circumstances that may have been a problem may not be the normal and/or may be the result of practices no longer in use. I'd just heard that trend enough that it seemed worth mentioning.

About slaughter houses....I actually tried to do some shadowing at a few and wasn't able to b/c they were worried about too many OSHA and USDA regulations. I do think it is an experience that veterinarians should have under their belt....I think it's kind of one of those things that you shouldn't have an opinion about until you really know how things work.

 

[wishes]

Huh? What university are you referring to? I see fees written off ALL the time and see documentation of or hear clients being updated of their costs on a daily basis by our residents. I honestly don't know where you get this impression because it doesn't happen everywhere. Private hospitals run up huge bills too...and they're not going to write off things that a university would.

I know a lot of people that really felt burned by universities and refuse to deal with them anymore if they can help it. Again, the circumstances that may have been a problem may not be the normal and/or may be the result of practices no longer in use. I'd just heard that trend enough that it seemed worth mentioning.

I don't really know enough to take a side, but I thought I could tell a funny, albeit frustrating, story resulting from the personal experience sending my horse up to a State University Veterinary school.
After an injury that resulted in a bone chip in her ankle joint I sent her up the veterinary teaching hospital for a lameness evaluation. I had been advised against surgery to remove the chip due to the chip's location and the possibility of trauma to the joint from surgery. I just wanted a second opinion regarding surgery and some advice regarding her long-term prognosis and treatment.
Nobody called me after her appointment so I tried calling the University, where I was put on hold and then transfered to several departments. I finally talked to a nice lady who had no idea who I was and could find no record at all of my horse being in the hospital. In fact, they had no record of me ever making the appointment. I asked to talk to the veterinarian that I had made the appointment with, but that doctor had already left for the day.
I called again the next morning and got the same run around but this time I finally got to talk to the veterinarian who proceeded to tell me "the surgery went great!" I was floored. Without any kind of deposit or anesthetic constent from me they had performed surgery to remove the chip from her ankle.
When I called again to check on her the next day, they again had no record of her being in the hospital. Now, she has severe arthritis in her joint as a result of surgery.
I suppose that this type of situation could happen anywhere, not just at a University. I can say though, from personal experience, there is at least some validity to what HorseyVet is saying.

 

[weeziefive]

You mean so. cal as in 76 deg. beach weather or so. cal as in Palm Springs 100 deg. at 8 pm weather? Because if it's like nice so. cal weather I'll be sure to apply there as well.

It fluctuates between the both. But 100 weather is really not that bad. I am very use to it.

 

[birdvet2006]

It fluctuates between the both. But 100 weather is really not that bad. I am very use to it.

Send me the 100 deg. weather, PLEASE! Though I am really getting happy now because our weather has become springtime "warm" at 50-53F! It still rains a lot, but it's warm!

I LOVE the desert (dry heat is my fav.) and cannot wait to live in the warm dry California heat again (2 months now!).

 

[stinyexoticvet]

I know I have posted a huge amount of posts on this topic. However, I just wanted to reiterate that there are those who think poorly about attending a foreign school, and then there are those who encourage it. I think for myself it was a decision I made a long time ago, but didn’t realize how much I wanted to go away until I was actually completing the application process and got in. I know what I am capable of and know that no matter where I go I am going to make something of my education and myself. So all I can say is Australia here I come! If you are planning on applying out of the country don’t let people discourage you. Do what you know will make you happy. You are the one who will be there for 4-5 years.

I was so nervous when I first found out I was accepted to Murdoch. Many people also questioned me about the BVMS. After doing alot of research though, I decided to go for it because the pros definitely outweighed the cons. It is still a difficult, life changing decision and even though there are some similarites, there are still so many differences. I am still glad I made the decision to come here, but it is vet school and not just one big vacation like many people think because it is Australia. Murdoch is an excellent school.

Come check out my site for more ramblings on the differences between Australia and America http://stinyexoticvet.com/

 

[Mylez]

Hey stinyexoticvet,

Thanks for your post. I've been to your site a few times and you've gotten me excited about studying abroad. (Actually, you all have). When should you apply to get in to Murdoch? (For me, I'd have to go there after my graduation in early May next year).

 

[stinyexoticvet]

Hey stinyexoticvet,

Thanks for your post. I've been to your site a few times and you've gotten me excited about studying abroad. (Actually, you all have). When should you apply to get in to Murdoch? (For me, I'd have to go there after my graduation in early May next year).

No problem, glad I could help. If you want to come here after your graduation...I would say apply in december. You will probably get accepted for February, and then the fun begins. What science courses do you have? You can possibly get out of the first semester of first year and some of the second. Then you will be starting in July, but you will know where you are going.

Alternatively, you could wait till April or May and apply for July entry...they take people in on a rolling basis with semesters starting in February and July. Hope this helps.

-Christina
Murdoch 2009

 

[stinyexoticvet]

Weather. Thats the one thing I am looking forward to. I have been told it is just like Southern California Weather. Thank god!!!

Yes it is just like Southern California weather IN SOME WAYS. It gets very very rainy and cold in the winter too. And it rains for a long time. The heat is humid, not dry at all, but the humidity is not that much. Now the sun is not the same as California at all. I think we are only a few km away form it over here personally. You can get sunburned through your jeans even when you dont usually burn...The strength of the sun cannot be described.

For all of those coming over here...bring a light very waterproof jacket or shell and make sure it has a hood on it. I did not bring one and finding one is near impossible and if you do the selection is bad and they are really really expensive...if only I had known I would have brought my nice snowboarding jackets...but I did not think I would need them, go figure

-Christina
Murdoch 2009

 

[youthman]

Now that sounds nice - I can handle humidity and heat (and rain) just fine, just not dry heat. I will probably apply to Murdoch when my time comes as a backup plan,but the only BIG BIG obstacle for me is I would have to leave my dogs behind. They would be lost without me, and I would be heartbroken beyond belief without them. By the way, I enjoyed your site Christina.

 

[stinyexoticvet]

Now that sounds nice - I can handle humidity and heat (and rain) just fine, just not dry heat. I will probably apply to Murdoch when my time comes as a backup plan,but the only BIG BIG obstacle for me is I would have to leave my dogs behind. They would be lost without me, and I would be heartbroken beyond belief without them. By the way, I enjoyed your site Christina.

Thank you. You could not save up and bring one or both? I brought mine, and it was well worth it.

 

[youthman]

What did you have to go through to do it? Quarantine at some vet clinic? I don't think my dogs can handle quarantine...

 

[katemez]

I'll be going to New Zealand and don't have a dog yet... but I plan to get one. Anyone know what it's like bringing a dog from overseas back to the US? Easier than the other way around?

 

[Mylez]

Yes, the quarantine is my fear as well with my cat. When/if you come back to the US, do they have to go through a quarantine again?

Thanks for your help! I'll plan on applying. I think I should have sufficient coverage to get out of the first year. What do I need? Should I send you an email?

Thanks!