Going back for opto - cost

[cerulean22]

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Hi everyone,

I am brand new on here. I know there are numerous threads regarding the following issues, but I was wondering if anyone could give me feedback re: my specific situation.

I am almost 23. I already have a master's, which I owe about $50k in student loans for. I am absolutely 100% sure I want to go to optometry school. I worked for my optometrist for a couple years, and I know that is what I want to do. (I even knew when I was getting my master's - whoops.) I do not believe I will have any problem getting through the prereqs or getting a good score on the OAT. The school I would do my prereqs at costs $4200/sem, x 4 = $16800.

My concerns are regarding finances. As I said I already owe $50k, and I still need about 39 hours of prereqs. I am currently working and I don't make very much money, but I am able to put some away. So it seems I have a couple choices:

1. Go back to school ASAP and take out loans for the prereqs and opto school, resulting in quite a lot of debt at the end, but get out of opto school younger.

2. Take a couple of years off and try to pay down my existing debt, as well as save to pay for the prereqs in cash, but get out of opto school older.

3. Something in-between - try to pay cash for 1 or 2 semesters of prereqs, borrow for the others.

4. Rather than pay for prereqs in cash, put all savings away in a CD and save it for after I get out of opto school, as I have read on some other threads that this is very important.

I would so appreciate any advice you all have. I really want to get started doing this, but I don't want to make a huge financial mistake that will cost me later. Thanks so much!

 

[JMaui]

You sound determined to go through with optometry school... so I would not suggest waiting it out.

If I were you, I would register to take prereqs.. figure out the fees. At my undergrad, if I took 12 hrs I would pay X amount. If I took any classes over the 12 hrs, then it would be FREE. Basically it is considered full time enrollment and that is the cost of tuition. They did not charge extra for going overtime.

Also, WORK during your school time. Yes, you need to do well in your classes but many people work while in school. I don't see why you would not be able to generate some sort of income while you're in school.

There are many other things to figure out.. one thing for sure is to not procrastinate. Waiting will cause a delay in education. The longer it takes, the less motivated IMHO.

 

[Abeness8]

Hi everyone,

I am brand new on here. I know there are numerous threads regarding the following issues, but I was wondering if anyone could give me feedback re: my specific situation.

I am almost 23. I already have a master's, which I owe about $50k in student loans for. I am absolutely 100% sure I want to go to optometry school. I worked for my optometrist for a couple years, and I know that is what I want to do. (I even knew when I was getting my master's - whoops.) I do not believe I will have any problem getting through the prereqs or getting a good score on the OAT. The school I would do my prereqs at costs $4200/sem, x 4 = $16800.

My concerns are regarding finances. As I said I already owe $50k, and I still need about 39 hours of prereqs. I am currently working and I don't make very much money, but I am able to put some away. So it seems I have a couple choices:

1. Go back to school ASAP and take out loans for the prereqs and opto school, resulting in quite a lot of debt at the end, but get out of opto school younger.

2. Take a couple of years off and try to pay down my existing debt, as well as save to pay for the prereqs in cash, but get out of opto school older.

3. Something in-between - try to pay cash for 1 or 2 semesters of prereqs, borrow for the others.

4. Rather than pay for prereqs in cash, put all savings away in a CD and save it for after I get out of opto school, as I have read on some other threads that this is very important.

I would so appreciate any advice you all have. I really want to get started doing this, but I don't want to make a huge financial mistake that will cost me later. Thanks so much!

I also have a masters degree and actually did the pre-reqs. I am 27 years old and i am starting Optometry school in Aug! I think its totally worth it. I will finish Opto school at 31 years old. I think its perfectly fine. I will end up owing about 220,000 when finished. It doesn't scare me because i will work for 25 years making an average of 90,000 a year and doing what i love! Dont let debt and age get in the way of passion. Its all relative...

Do what you love.... you only live once!
Goodluck!

 

[cerulean22]

Thank you for your supportive responses! I think I'm going to start the pre-reqs in the summer.. I'm so excited that I finally figured out what I want to do 😀

 

[DellGirl]

i'm not an expert, but definitely not number 2. start asap and get out of optometry school earlier. good luck 🙂

 

[thecgrblue]

Well just keep in mind that every year that you put off is a year of earnings as an optometrist lost. Pretend that you make AT MINIMUM (very conservative estimate) $60k/year your first year out..how much do you think you could be making a year before going to school.

$4800/semester isn't terrible. If you work 25 hours/week, taking 2 weeks off for vacation and what not, making $8/hr...that is $10k/year, which is plenty to offset and pay for most of your school. This is a very conservative scenario as well, having a MS you could totally land a part-time teaching jobs or tutor classes.

Just create some scenarios and crunch all the numbers...my advice, get it done ASAP b/c your earning potential is highest when you have your OD.

 

[cerulean22]

Cool. Thanks again everyone. Is the following scenario possible if I study very long and hard for the OAT?

Summer - Bio 1, Chem 1
Fall - Bio 2, Chem 2, Phys 1
Spring - Phys 2, Org 1, stats, *take OAT and be admitted for opto school for fall*
Summer - Microbio, Org 2
Fall - Opt school!

Or do I need to wait until having completely finished Phys 2 and Org 1 to hope to do well on the OAT? Do opt schools let you in on the condition that you complete all the prereqs by the end of summer?

 

[DellGirl]

Cool. Thanks again everyone. Is the following scenario possible if I study very long and hard for the OAT?

Summer - Bio 1, Chem 1
Fall - Bio 2, Chem 2, Phys 1
Spring - Phys 2, Org 1, stats, *take OAT and be admitted for opto school for fall*
Summer - Microbio, Org 2
Fall - Opt school!

Or do I need to wait until having completely finished Phys 2 and Org 1 to hope to do well on the OAT? Do opt schools let you in on the condition that you complete all the prereqs by the end of summer?

I think doing all that in one year is cutting it really close, because, yes, Phys 2 and Orgo 1 are large portions of the OAT. Especially Organic.. think of it this way... You'll be starting orgo for the first time in mid January.. and you'll have to already take the OAT by like the beginning of March. So that's not a lot of time to become fluent in it.

Is it possible for you to consider starting prereqs this Spring? I know it's short notice, but, you'd have 2 weeks to apply and register at your local University.

This is what I did/am doing:
Spring 2010 - Chem 1, Phys 1
Summer - Bio 1, Chem 2
Fall - Bio 2, Phys 2, Orgo 1, Kaplan Class
Winter break - OAT and Applications. personally kind of panicking right now.. but that's cuz I'm taking it in less than 3 days and had trouble focusing much of last week.
Spring - Microbio, Biochem, A&P.

So basically my prereq plan, if all goes accordingly, is 1.5 years.

So I may be biased cuz I'm feeling a super time crunch right now, but with your potential spring schedule next year, and if you're going to be working, I don't know if you'd feel comfortable finding time to really study for the OAT. People may disagree with me. You may be able to do it, but you'd have to be super on your game and study for the OAT while taking your classes.

In any case, my main point is, if you want to apply to start in Fall of 2012, you should try to start taking prerequisites this semester.

 

[thecgrblue]

Taking those classes themselves will be a great OAT prep, maybe do a little bit more on the side, but should help.

Were you aware that you don't have to have your OAT in when you submit your apps....for example

I decided in August I was going to apply for school this year. I probably had my app all together and submitted by early October, took the OAT in late October...was accepted to 1 school in December and going to one interview next week.

If you start early for the OAT, 1 hr or so/day (which would be A LOT more than what I did)...combined with taking the prereqs so fresh...you'll do fine.

 

[Shnurek]

I also have a masters degree and actually did the pre-reqs. I am 27 years old and i am starting Optometry school in Aug! I think its totally worth it. I will finish Opto school at 31 years old. I think its perfectly fine. I will end up owing about 220,000 when finished. It doesn't scare me because i will work for 25 years making an average of 90,000 a year and doing what i love! Dont let debt and age get in the way of passion. Its all relative...

Do what you love.... you only live once!
Goodluck!

Wow 220k with optometry, wow. People nowadays have no sense of financial responsibility. Do you think some guy is just going to grab you up and take on your debt with him when you get married? If you finish at 31 with 220k then you will spend the next 20 years paying this off and you will never be able to get a nice car or a mortgage or anything unless you want to take out more loans (what Americans excel at). And then you are going to explode like all those Wall Street Protesters that are pissed off that they took out loans and nobody wants to pay them back. What if your mind changes about optometry mid-way through your education or a couple of years into practice? You have no way out.

Have fun being an indentured servant.

 

[blaba]

Well, to be fair to the protesters, they're unable to pay back mortgages on their homes because they are losing their jobs, which was largely unforeseeable before the financial meltdown/recession.

 

[janedoe88]

I think doing all that in one year is cutting it really close, because, yes, Phys 2 and Orgo 1 are large portions of the OAT. Especially Organic.. think of it this way... You'll be starting orgo for the first time in mid January.. and you'll have to already take the OAT by like the beginning of March. So that's not a lot of time to become fluent in it.

Is it possible for you to consider starting prereqs this Spring? I know it's short notice, but, you'd have 2 weeks to apply and register at your local University.

This is what I did/am doing:
Spring 2010 - Chem 1, Phys 1
Summer - Bio 1, Chem 2
Fall - Bio 2, Phys 2, Orgo 1, Kaplan Class
Winter break - OAT and Applications. personally kind of panicking right now.. but that's cuz I'm taking it in less than 3 days and had trouble focusing much of last week.
Spring - Microbio, Biochem, A&P.

So basically my prereq plan, if all goes accordingly, is 1.5 years.

So I may be biased cuz I'm feeling a super time crunch right now, but with your potential spring schedule next year, and if you're going to be working, I don't know if you'd feel comfortable finding time to really study for the OAT. People may disagree with me. You may be able to do it, but you'd have to be super on your game and study for the OAT while taking your classes.

In any case, my main point is, if you want to apply to start in Fall of 2012, you should try to start taking prerequisites this semester.

Okay, first off, there's no way you can fit all the prereqs into 1.5 years...A&P is usually 2 classes and biochem is insanely hard...plus ur missing alot of stuff like phys3, bio3, organic chem 2...but I do think ur schedule has more of the prereqs than the one the original poster made...I think you BOTH should go back and look at the required reqs of most schools.

Second, you have a HUGE debt already, and you don't want to ADD 150k of more debt on top of it...cause when you stack a pile high, it will come crashing down! Like someone said, it would take like, 30 years to pay that back and the interest would amount to another 10 years...

I think you need to be more realistic, take 3 years off to pay back your debt and complete the required classes in an actual amount of time it will take.

 

[Shnurek]

Well, to be fair to the protesters, they're unable to pay back mortgages on their homes because they are losing their jobs, which was largely unforeseeable before the financial meltdown/recession.

Exactly my point. Since the future of optometry is unforeseeable or your desire to practice it then there should not be so much financial risk dedicated to it.

You have to realize, most practitioners now are male. Males statistically work more hours than females. Optometry is quickly becoming mostly female. If you are a female, unless you want to work long and hard hours then you are in for an income surprise in your years as an optometrist. Also, owning a practice is ~50-60hr/week ordeal. Ask KHE or any of the other practice owners.

You have to take in all these factors into account when making CAREER decisions. This isn't some minute passion you might have at the moment. This is basically your life. If you can dedicate your life to optometry then by all means go into it, our profession has a lot of issues that need fixing and we need more stand up individuals to take action.

 

[hugs]

This is to Shrunek, how can you put down the poster for enduring debt, when you yourself are in Optometry school??, also yes $220,000 will take a long time to pay do down, but if the poster is responsible, they should be able to live comfortably coming out of Optometry school, I've been reading that they come out of Optometry making about $50-60K..also about your scenario about they guy, yes initially if you tell him you have 220,000 dollars in debt, of course he is going to run the other way, however if you tell him, your an optomerist making 50-60k and that you are able to budget to pay that down in 20 or so years, I don't see the issue, if it truly is an issue for him after that, you could just have separate bank accounts, also Shurnek you obviously didn't read the posters whole post-they said that they worked for an Optomerist for a couple of years and are absolutely certain it is what they want to do.

To the poster-I am on board with everyone who says to go for it now, for one thing, you may think your going to pay that 50,000 off in the next 5 years or so, but something always comes up-who knows how long you will actually be waiting? Not sure if you know this but alot of the schools will let you apply if you have no more than a max of 4 pre-req's remaining-you just have to finish before you matriculate to their school-this is when I would apply if I were you, just in case you don't get in the first time-4 classes would give you chance for improvement, since you already have your Master's, also if your not against joining the military, I'm not sure about the Navy, Marines, or Airforce but the Army will give you a scholarship to pay for school, and your only obligation from what I understand is that you have to attend summer training (I believe they will work with you, if your school won't let you go then) and you owe them 3-6 years after you graduate-good luck to you

 

[Shnurek]

I might have been a little rough but I just don't see how us humans can predict what we will enjoy doing for the next ~40 years. Our life expectancies are so long that like Dr. Hom said we will probably end up having at least one career change. That's why I think we shouldn't dedicate such an enormous amount of money (220k) to something that cannot be sold (Re: JasonK) unlike real estate which can be resold. Unless it comes out that you love what you do for the rest of your life.

As to the fact that I'm in optometry school myself, I have the supply line so that I will come out with not that much debt if I play my cards right. I go to a public opto school with low tuition (18k) which is ironically less than my undergrad lol. And like many fellow students in NYC, I reside with my parents. I believe this is more of a local phenomenon as NYC rents are the highest in the country.

 

[Jason K]

I would so appreciate any advice you all have. I really want to get started doing this, but I don't want to make a huge financial mistake that will cost me later. Thanks so much!

If you're hoping to avoid a huge financial mistake, don't go to optometry school. For the vast majority of those people enrolled in OD programs and those will come after them, their decision to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for an OD will prove to be an awful mistake. The profession has lost its value in the eye care industry for several reasons and new grads will be the ones paying the price - a career of indentured servitude in the form of student loans.

If you rack up major student loan debt, make sure you do it in a profession that gives you ample opportunity to earn an income that will allow you to actually pay it back comfortably without having to defy the odds. Some people will slip through the cracks and do well, most will end up in commercial mills or some other optometric wastebasket. Most people in OD programs right now have no idea what they're in for when they finish. I'd give it some serious thought before you commit to it. I once saw optometry as the pre-ops on this site see it now, but it's all a mirage created by the schools and the AOA to entice people into the profession.

 

[hugs]

Shrunek-You do know that your the exception right?? Optometry school for many people costs well above 100K, not only that but many also don't have the luxury/option to live with their parents-so living expenses also add to that..in addition the poster has a back up, they have their masters-yes the economy is rough right now, but they shouldn't have as much trouble finding a job compared to someone who has less education. None of us can predict the future, if Optometry is the posters chosen career's path, why should they wait? In reference to your Jason K quote, his posts are very informative and amusing, and he is educating everyone on the decline of the field, however, he is still a practicing optomerist, the decline that he sees hasn't made him change career fields-so it apparently isn't bad enough for him to switch and secondly in his perception the field is declining, did any of the new applicants to optometry stop and consider that maybe Jason K doesn't want more competition?

 

[Shnurek]

Jason K just needs to be interviewed for SDN. If he won't do it then some other OD will do it and either take Jason K's credit to talk about the negatives of the profession or will paint the profession in a good light as ODs have been doing so far and the truth will still be suppressed, right Jason K? Grow some balls already.

 

[Jason K]

Jason K just needs to be interviewed for SDN. If he won't do it then some other OD will do it and either take Jason K's credit to talk about the negatives of the profession or will paint the profession in a good light as ODs have been doing so far and the truth will still be suppressed, right Jason K? Grow some balls already.

My balls are already inconveniently large as they make it a challenge to even do routine daily activities such as base jumping, bull-fighting, Brazilian street fighting, and competitive full contact tap dancing, although I can bounce around on them which is kind of fun.

That aside, if I could do the interview anonymously and I could use an action shot of Chuck doing an awesome karate move as my head shot, possibly adorned with an intimidating Chuck quote, I'd consider it. Otherwise, it's obvious why I would not do that.

In reference to your Jason K quote, his posts are very informative and amusing, and he is educating everyone on the decline of the field, however, he is still a practicing optomerist, the decline that he sees hasn't made him change career fields-so it apparently isn't bad enough for him to switch and secondly in his perception the field is declining, did any of the new applicants to optometry stop and consider that maybe Jason K doesn't want more competition?

Dude, you have GOT to be kidding me! That would be like saying I keep a Barbie-sized umbrella in my pocket just in case I run into an unexpected hurricane. The reason I'm here is because no one, not the AOA, not the schools, not even most practicing ODs, will hike up their panties and inform pre-ops what they deserve to know before they get lured into the trap that is optometry. It pisses me off to no end that people are being suckered into the profession, meanwhile everyone benefits except the students and practicing ODs who are watching their field slip away into a commercial cesspool. The optometric profession is headed toward complete commercialization since most grads are flooding into that part of the field. They're not entering private practice for a variety of reasons, but that's irrelevant - what matters is that they're not maintaining that side of the field. The result? It's dying away slowly, and what we'll be left with is a wasteland like the pharmacists have, only our pay will be far lower than theirs due to the low demand for our services. That's why I'm here - make no mistake about that.

 

[hugs]

I understand that there needs to be someone who will educate everyone on the negative aspect of the Optometry field, but what I'm confused on is why you are so anti-commercialism of the field? From what I see every medical field, Dentists, doctors, Physical therapy, and on and on have a commerical side and a private practice side and none of those professions think its a bad thing? Not attacking you, just sincerely curious? In addition everyone speaks as if $50-60K is bad as a new grad, I think its relative, for example, the majority of people who are going into Health related professions, including Optometry seem to be in the mid-twenties, how many 20 something year olds, do you know making $60K? I know that 60K is low for a Doctor of any kind, but won't that income rise as you get more experience, and JasonK, I was just curious without you attacking the field, what made you go into Optometry in the first place? Did you have a passion for it when you were applying as an undergrad?

 

[Jason K]

I understand that there needs to be someone who will educate everyone on the negative aspect of the Optometry field, but what I'm confused on is why you are so anti-commercialism of the field? From what I see every medical field, Dentists, doctors, Physical therapy, and on and on have a commerical side and a private practice side and none of those professions think its a bad thing? Not attacking you, just sincerely curious? In addition everyone speaks as if $50-60K is bad as a new grad, I think its relative, for example, the majority of people who are going into Health related professions, including Optometry seem to be in the mid-twenties, how many 20 something year olds, do you know making $60K? I know that 60K is low for a Doctor of any kind, but won't that income rise as you get more experience, and JasonK, I was just curious without you attacking the field, what made you go into Optometry in the first place? Did you have a passion for it when you were applying as an undergrad?

The problem is, none of the fields you mentioned has commercial components that are in the process of sinking those professions. Dentistry has a veeeeeeeery small commercial component, pretty much limited to teeth whitening in shopping malls. PTs sell home-use equipment, often times from their own offices, and they don't have to compete with online sellers, Walmart PTs, Sam's Club PTs, America's Best PTs, Sears PTs, LensCrafters PTs, etc, etc, all doing nothing but trying to sell materials. Optometry is being taken over by companies who care nothing about eye care and ONLY care about selling glasses and contacts. That's one of the many problems optometry is facing. Those other professions are not being crushed by corporations that are having the same effect.

There has long been a commercial presence in optometry, but it has only recently begun to take over the profession and it's entirely due to the out-of-control production of excessive ODs. As a result of the commercial explosion from OD oversupply, our services have bottomed out in value. An "eye exam" is something that is deemed worthless by many in the public since it's being given away free on every corner with 2 pairs of glasses for 49.99. When the public views our services as worthless, why would vision plans feel any different? Is it any wonder that even VSP is screwing us? When you have corporations who only hire ODs to sell materials, and the services offered by those ODs are considered worthless by those corporations, you reach an inevitable end. Services are given away to sell materials so that materials sales may succeed. That's where we are and that's where we're headed, but most OD students and pre-ops won't see the reality until it's far too late.

I was completely convinced that optometry was a solid investment because I bought into the same nonsense that the pre-ops are buying into right now; the AOA hot air, the garbage from the schools about a shortage of ODs, and yes, even the BLS crap. I never would have picked optometry if had known the realities of the profession and what's coming down the road. I have no doubt that the vast majority of those entering the profession right now, especially the males, will be unbelievably shocked when they see that what they've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on is not anything close to what they anticipated. Education is highly over-valued these days; you've got to be careful what you sign up for and make sure it can support it's own weight.

As an aside, if you plan on getting out of a 200K+ educational track, whether it be an OD or anything else, making 50-60K, you'd better be ready to buy food stamps. Seriously, after you pay back your monthly debt, you'll be living on pennies if you're making that little. You have to look at what you'll be bringing home as spendable income, not just as income.

 

[netmag]

There are anti-"NameYourProfession" people all over this site. Their rhetoric is almost universally the same. Noting the same issues and the same reasons why no one should enter that particular profession even though they themselves are in it or pursuing it. Not surprisingly, none of them can fathom anyone not putting salary as a top priority either and they assume that anyone who says that it is not their biggest concern is naive and doomed to be destitute. They also can't fathom that newer people may not be as miserable as they are in certain work environments. In fact, they see people who are fine with work environments that they hate as threats because to them that fosters more change and they are afraid of such changes and feel they're entitled to have their profession be exactly as they personally envisioned it should be. There is indeed a danger that one type of work environment could compete and water down business for another type. So if someone is non-flexible and feels they can only stomach one type of work environment then they could be in for some disappointment down the road. The anti-"NameYourProfession" people of course feel they can accurately predict the future and know for certain that any changes mean certain "death" for their preferred work environment. Might be true or it might not.

The problem is that these same people usually do absolutely nothing that is actually constructive to help the situation. Usually they choose instead to troll around internet forums and try to run people off by using the most extreme examples (lowest salary numbers often with taxes subtracted as though no one else in other professions pay taxes, highest tuition numbers, rumors of huge numbers of new schools, blatant misrepresentations of published news, etc..) These tactics are all nearly the same for each of these types of people and they do next to nothing to resolve any of the issues that may actually exist.

I understand that there needs to be someone who will educate everyone on the negative aspect of the Optometry field, but what I'm confused on is why you are so anti-commercialism of the field? From what I see every medical field, Dentists, doctors, Physical therapy, and on and on have a commerical side and a private practice side and none of those professions think its a bad thing? Not attacking you, just sincerely curious? In addition everyone speaks as if $50-60K is bad as a new grad, I think its relative, for example, the majority of people who are going into Health related professions, including Optometry seem to be in the mid-twenties, how many 20 something year olds, do you know making $60K? I know that 60K is low for a Doctor of any kind, but won't that income rise as you get more experience, and JasonK, I was just curious without you attacking the field, what made you go into Optometry in the first place? Did you have a passion for it when you were applying as an undergrad?

 

[Shnurek]

Lolol, excellent points Netmag.

 

[godawgs2012]

Cool. Thanks again everyone. Is the following scenario possible if I study very long and hard for the OAT?

Summer - Bio 1, Chem 1
Fall - Bio 2, Chem 2, Phys 1
Spring - Phys 2, Org 1, stats, *take OAT and be admitted for opto school for fall*
Summer - Microbio, Org 2
Fall - Opt school!

Or do I need to wait until having completely finished Phys 2 and Org 1 to hope to do well on the OAT? Do opt schools let you in on the condition that you complete all the prereqs by the end of summer?

taking two sciences with labs in the summer is a pretty terrible idea... you'd have labs 4 times a week, on top of a test probably every week between the two of those classes (you're covering the same amount of material as fall/spring in half the time). it would be difficult to make good grades in both even at an easy school. also a lot of schools make biology 1 a pre-req to genchem, or vice versa. As far as ochem goes, most optometry schools don't require org 2, so i would recommend taking biochem instead. best of luck with this plan, sounds like hell.

oh, and absolutely do NOT take the OAT before ochem and phys 2. its tough studying for when even you have seen the material before.

 

[listenclose23]

Sounds like we have a lot in common only I'm quite a bit older. I have been working as an optician for about 4 years now and worked while I was in school even taking some classes during my lunch break. However, these last two semesters I decided to quit and go full time. Most of the pre-regs require in class time as well as labs and scheduling these around work gets harder and harder. Also you need to plan out the classes carefully because many institutions dont offer all classes every semester and this will be a major problem. I suggest meeting with the heads of the Chemistry, Biology, and Physics departments and explaining your intentions. I found most heads very understanding they even let me take classes I didnt have pre reqs for or take them in the same semester when normally you would never be allowed to do so. I'm 30 years old and wish I did this a long time ago, my advise is get it over with as soon as possible and worry about paying the debt when you're an OD.

 

[Jason K]

....my advise is get it over with as soon as possible and worry about paying the debt when you're an OD.

I have to say, this advice is terrifying to see in print after everything that's happened to tuition costs and home mortgages in the last 5 years. It's exactly what gets people into trouble. You need to worry about your debt before you sign on the dotted line, not after, and that goes for any loan, education, home mortgage, practice loan, whatever.

This approach to student loan debt is exactly the reason that tuition costs have risen the way they have. People borrowed with no regard for the feasibility of payback, the feds were happy to supply the cash, and the price of tuition skyrocketed just like the price of housing did from the same pressures. When you provide people with easy money for the purpose of buying "X," the price of "X" will skyrocket in response. Unfortunately, our brilliant leaders in the federal government apparently missed that day in econ 101.

Make sure you look into how you'll be able to pay back your loans once you have them and know how much you'll be borrowing. For most people entering optometry right now, their income will not support their student loan obligations to the extent that they expect. All of this nonsense from Obama and student loans is nothing more than showboating during a campaign period. Students will pay back the money they borrow one way or the other, whether it's through principal+interest or through large taxes at the back end. There's no free lunch, and there shouldn't be.

 

[Jason K]

Usually they choose instead to troll around internet forums and try to run people off by using the most extreme examples (lowest salary numbers often with taxes subtracted as though no one else in other professions pay taxes, highest tuition numbers, rumors of huge numbers of new schools, blatant misrepresentations of published news, etc..) These tactics are all nearly the same for each of these types of people and they do next to nothing to resolve any of the issues that may actually exist.

Jesus netmag, are you still crying about a subjective judgement call when it came to "true net" vs gross income? Let it go, chief. My god, is that all you can stand on is one flimsy argument that doesn't even hold water? A respected OMD on the forum made the same assumption and I highly doubt you'd be telling people he's out there trying to steer people away from optometry. Furthermore, pretax income is far more of an "apples to apples" comparison when it comes to pay, which is why many people assume that's what's being referred to. No one quotes salary as "I made a 100K last year, after taxes."

Please, take your small brain and your lack of novel thoughts over to the pharmacy forum where it belongs or at the very least, start to contribute actual information. All you do on here is remark about other people's posts, usually with insinuation instead of hiking up your panties like a real lady and saying what you want to say. Is that all you have to offer? Can you form an idea of your own? Are you going to do your usual and run and hide, not answering any of the questions that are posed to you? I have a running tally of about 30 questions, all of them reasonable requests, in which I've asked you to justify your false claims. You've yet to answer a single one. What happened to your other screen name of choice? I missed you for a while, but I see your back.

I don't need to create any smoke and mirrors to show what optometry is doing today, it's all right there for the taking. No one denies that there are way to many ODs. No one denies that there are way too many schools with more on the way. No one denies that pay for ODs is stagnant and has been for a long time, not just since the recent recession. Would you like me to continue? No one denies that the majority of ODs are heading into commercial practice, not private practice these days because there just aren't enough employed PP spots. No one denies that vision plans are screwing over ODs by effectively paying lower and lower reimbursements. And most importantly, I don't think many people on this site would deny that you, yourself, have proven to be nothing more than a troll. You define it. You show up, make inflammatory comments that are usually in the form of misquotes or downright lies. Then you change your screen name to "gmch155" or something else once you're called out on your lies - nice. Was I really that hard on you that you had to morph into a new person? It's really quite pathetic, but amusing nonetheless.

Keep posting, though. I really enjoy tearing apart everything you say. It's quite simple and I find it entertaining. You and emily give me a virtually endless supply of baseless nonsense to rip to pieces. She's gone the route of a screen name change as well, did you guys talk or something? Hell, maybe netmag, gmch155, imemily, and optom123 are all one in the same. You all seem share the same level of cluelessness.

And for god's sake, sprout a sack and start posting something of substance. There are people on this forum who I disagree with strongly about the state of optometry, but some of them (not all) actually make valid points and form solid arguments in response to those with negative views. Grow a bag and start trying to do the same. It'll be hard at first, I know, but keep the wheels turning and you might be surprised what your brain is capable of producing. You're a pharmacist so there has to be something between those ears.

 

[Judgment Dragon]

Hell, maybe netmag, gmch155, imemily, and optom123 are all one in the same. You all seem share the same level of cluelessness.

Does optohopeful123 fall under this category too? 😕

 

[Jason K]

Does optohopeful123 fall under this category too? 😕

I suppose I was unfair in leaving him out. He's knows who else he is!😀

 

[cjensen20]

Wow 220k with optometry, wow. People nowadays have no sense of financial responsibility. Do you think some guy is just going to grab you up and take on your debt with him when you get married? If you finish at 31 with 220k then you will spend the next 20 years paying this off and you will never be able to get a nice car or a mortgage or anything unless you want to take out more loans (what Americans excel at). And then you are going to explode like all those Wall Street Protesters that are pissed off that they took out loans and nobody wants to pay them back. What if your mind changes about optometry mid-way through your education or a couple of years into practice? You have no way out.

Have fun being an indentured servant.

um...no..
sometimes 220k isnt about being financially responsible...many students already are married and some with children during opt school. And yes, you may spend the next 20 years paying it off....however i think this would be an example of being financially unresponsible, as you would be paying only the minimum....or less...ha!

and yes...even with 220k...if you are living responsibily....you can still get a car and a house and what not....just have to pace yourselves

 

[Judgment Dragon]

I suppose I was unfair in leaving him out. He's knows who else he is!😀

I thought optohopeful123 is a female? Or is she a male pretending to be a female? 😕

 

[optom123]

I thought optohopeful123 is a female? Or is she a male pretending to be a female? 😕

Shouldn't you be prepping your self on the art of pill counting? 😕

 

[Jason K]

I thought optohopeful123 is a female? Or is she a male pretending to be a female? 😕

She might like to think so, but.....

Shouldn't you be prepping your self on the art of pill counting? 😕

Get used to those overalls I mentioned earlier, kiddo. You're gonna need 'em when you get shot out of the OD cannon and can't find any decent work. At least as a lady-janitor, you'll be an unusual commodity. Also, can you pick one of your 23 screen names and just stick with it? We're all struggling to keep track of all your very similar personas. Just how many "X123" screen names are there? God, I've caused two of you two crazies to crack under pressure and go into hiding. Maybe I need to ease up on you two gals, especially nethack.

Oh, and fyi - "yourself" is one word. Jesus, do they teach anything in college these days?

 

[cjensen20]

remember, investing in an education that can provide a profitable career, is just that - an investment. There are good investments, and bad investments. if you work as hard as you can at being a great optometrist for the rest of your career..(and possibly more..) it is very possible to do well, regardless of the cost of the initial investment, or what naysayers will tell you. However, if you are going into this profession, expecting that you wont need to work for a return..you may want to reconsider your career choice.

A basic study of Economics teaches that "there is no such thing as a free lunch". In any profession, one should expect to work as hard as one can to be the best.

hopefully, you desire to be a good enough optometrist (or researcher, if you go that route) that people will want your services, and/or expertise and would be willing to pay you for them, thus helping to provide a "return on your investment".

it can be done, dont listen to the many many naysayers that can be found here on the boards.

dont go into Optometry expecting to receive a million dollar salary. if its just about money, then maybe optometry isn't the right fit for you.

As an optometrist, it is rare that you will make more than, say an MD of most specialties. Though, this isnt an absolute. I know several ODs that are employed by OMDs. they are not partners, or junior partners, simply employees that receive a salary plus commission and are earning more than their OMD counterparts because they bust their a**. however, earning more than an OMD is not typically the case. generally speaking, OMD procedures and services yield more than OD procedures under our current insurance/reimbursement health care system.

let me state something that should be obvious...but somehow seems to have been forgotten:

Its not all about money, its about doing what you love. If you don't love it, don't do it. If you truly love it, maybe cost or reimbursement shouldn't matter as much.

Dont get me wrong though, optometrists on average earn plenty to to have a decent middle-class, or upper middle-class lifestyle, and enough to live a 'comfortable' life..but then again so can many other careers...once again...if you dont love it...dont do it


dont go into Optometry thinking it will be a cake-walk...that you are entitiled to anything

there are no entitlements!

dont go into optometry expecting that in your first year of first several years post-grad, or even your entire career for that matter, that you will find the ideal situation simply handed to you.

don't go into optometry school expecting it to be easy. Its easy for very few, and challenging for the vast majority. Many people start but for whatever reason dont ever finish.

How many people do you know that didnt ever have the drive or even the opportunity or whatnot to even consider optometry. you should consider yourself lucky that you are one of the small fraction of the population that could even consider optometry as a possible option.

you want something, say a return on your investment? then work you a** off and go get it

should you go back to school and get your OD degree? YES! why not?

but only if you truly want it for the right reasons

think about it this way. in 4 years or however long it will take you to complete it...you can either continue with what you are now, or you can become an optometrist...in 4ish years, if you're 23 now...any way you look at it in 4 years you'll be 27ish anyway...at 27ish would you rather have what you have now, or would you rather have what you have now plus be a doctor of optometry?

 

[Jason K]

remember, investing in an education that can provide a profitable career, is just that - an investment. There are good investments, and bad investments. if you work as hard as you can at being a great optometrist for the rest of your career..(and possibly more..) it is very possible to do well, regardless of the cost of the initial investment, or what naysayers will tell you. However, if you are going into this profession, expecting that you wont need to work for a return..you may want to reconsider your career choice.

A basic study of Economics teaches that "there is no such thing as a free lunch". In any profession, one should expect to work as hard as one can to be the best.

hopefully, you desire to be a good enough optometrist (or researcher, if you go that route) that people will want your services, and/or expertise and would be willing to pay you for them, thus helping to provide a "return on your investment".

it can be done, dont listen to the many many naysayers that can be found here on the boards.

dont go into Optometry expecting to receive a million dollar salary. if its just about money, then maybe optometry isn't the right fit for you.

As an optometrist, it is rare that you will make more than, say an MD of most specialties. Though, this isnt an absolute. I know several ODs that are employed by OMDs. they are not partners, or junior partners, simply employees that receive a salary plus commission and are earning more than their OMD counterparts because they bust their a**. however, earning more than an OMD is not typically the case. generally speaking, OMD procedures and services yield more than OD procedures under our current insurance/reimbursement health care system.

let me state something that should be obvious...but somehow seems to have been forgotten:

Its not all about money, its about doing what you love. If you don't love it, don't do it. If you truly love it, maybe cost or reimbursement shouldn't matter as much.

Dont get me wrong though, optometrists on average earn plenty to to have a decent middle-class, or upper middle-class lifestyle, and enough to live a 'comfortable' life..but then again so can many other careers...once again...if you dont love it...dont do it


dont go into Optometry thinking it will be a cake-walk...that you are entitiled to anything

there are no entitlements!

dont go into optometry expecting that in your first year of first several years post-grad, or even your entire career for that matter, that you will find the ideal situation simply handed to you.

don't go into optometry school expecting it to be easy. Its easy for very few, and challenging for the vast majority. Many people start but for whatever reason dont ever finish.

How many people do you know that didnt ever have the drive or even the opportunity or whatnot to even consider optometry. you should consider yourself lucky that you are one of the small fraction of the population that could even consider optometry as a possible option.

you want something, say a return on your investment? then work you a** off and go get it

should you go back to school and get your OD degree? YES! why not?

but only if you truly want it for the right reasons

think about it this way. in 4 years or however long it will take you to complete it...you can either continue with what you are now, or you can become an optometrist...in 4ish years, if you're 23 now...any way you look at it in 4 years you'll be 27ish anyway...at 27ish would you rather have what you have now, or would you rather have what you have now plus be a doctor of optometry?

Or you could just go to dental school, work just as hard, maybe less, and enter a profession that has not been gutted by cheap insurances and greedy corporations out to profit off the backs of practitioners. You'd enter a profession which has a backbone (the ADA) and a solid future. And you'd enter a profession which offers far more diversity in practice, true specialization potential, and far more earning potential on average.

My favorite comment in response to the dental vs optometry comments are the "Oh, I just can't stand the idea of being in people's mouths all day...." Once the real picture of today's optometry becomes apparent, the thought of working in someone's mouth takes on a much better outlook. I guess that's why there's countless ODs who would love to trade in their doctorate for a dental degree.

 

[cjensen20]

ay ay ay....give it a rest Jason K.